Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge

Subject: Lyr Add: AN ENGLISHMAN'S SEA DIRGE
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:49 PM

Another coup for the DT. First time in text on the internet.

AN ENGLISHMAN'S SEA DIRGE
Anonymous

There are certain things - as a spider, a ghost,
The income-tax, gout, and umbrella for thee -
That I hate, but a thing that I hate that
Is a thing they call the sea.

Pour some salt water on the floor -
Ugly, I'm sure you will confess it to be;
Suppose that it extended a mile or more,
That's very like the sea.

I had a vision of nursery maids,
Tens of thousands passed by me,
All leading children with wooden spades,
And this was by the sea.

Who invented those spades of wood?
Who was it cut them out of the tree?
None, I think, but an idiot could,
Or one that loved the sea.

It is pleasant and dreamy, no-doubt, to float
With "thoughts as boundless, and souls as free,"
But suppose you are very unwell in the boat,
How do you like the sea?

"But it makes the intellect clear and keen."
Prove it! prove it! how can that be?
"Why, what does 'B sharp,' (in music mean,
If not the natural C?

What! keen? with such questions as: When's high tide?
Is shelling shrimps and improvement to tea?
Were donkeys intended for man to ride?
Such are our thoughts by the sea.

There is an insect that people avoid.
(Whence is derived the verb "to flee,")
Where have you been by it most annoyed?
In lodgings by the sea.

If you like coffee with sand for dregs,
A decided hint of salt in your tea,
And a fish taste in the very eggs -
By all means choose the sea.

And if, with these dainties to drink and to eat,
Your prefer not a vestige of grass or tree,
And a chronic state of wet in your feet,
Then - I recommend the sea.

For I have friends who dwell by the coast,
Pleasant friends they are to me;
It is when I am with them, I wonder most
That any one likes the sea.

I try the rocks and think it cool
That they laugh with such an excess of glee,
As I heavily slip into every pool
That skirts the cold, cold sea.

Once I met a friend in the street,
With wife, and nurse, and children three;
Never again such a sight may I meet
As that party from the sea.

Their cheeks were hollow, their steps were slow,
Convicted felons they seemed to be:
"Are you going to prison, dear friend?" "oh, no!
We're returning from the sea."

Sincerely,
GARGOYLE

Beautiful Gems of Thought and Sentiment, Northrop, Henry Davenport, Des Moines Publishing Co. Des Moines, Iowa, 1890 p 489.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: AN ENGLISHMAN'S SEA DIRGE
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:57 PM

I must go down to the sea again
To the lonely sea and sky
And all I ask is a tall ship
And a star to steer her by...

Mary, who aches when away from the sea.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:07 PM

Gargoyle-

I posted "Sea Dirge" at the Oldpoetry website some time ago with the same book reference but with the composer identified as Lewis Carroll.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:08 PM

I also posted it here: ;~)

LYR.ADD.: Sea Dirge, A - Feb 1 2005 1:41PM

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:48 PM

(News item, ca 1928:
"When Mrs. John Masefield and her husband, the author of "I
must go down to the seas again", arrived here on a liner, she said
to a reporter, "It was too uppy-downy, and Mr. Masefield was
ill.")

I must go down to the seas again, where the billows romp and reel,
And all I ask is a large ship that rides on an even keel,
And a mild breeze and a broad deck with a slight list to leeward,
And a clean chair in a snug nook and a nice, kind, steward.

I must go down to the seas again, the sport of wind and tide,
As the gray wave and the green wave play leap-frog over the side.
And all I want is a glassy calm with a bone-dry scupper,
A good book and a warm rug and a light, plain supper.

I must go down to the seas again, though there I'm a total loss
And can't say which is worse, the pitch, the plunge, the roll, the toss.
But all I ask is a safe retreat in a bar well tended,
And a soft berth and a smooth course 'till the long trip's ended.

@parody @water @sailor
see also SEAFEVER, SEAFVR3
filename[ SEACHILL
RG

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: ClaireBear
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:57 PM

My father once wrote a sea song whose chorus went

"Oh, a life on the rolling sea
Is no-ot the li-ife for me."

I wish to heck I remembered the verses.

Claire

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:10 PM

Charlie - mea culpa

However, how the blazes you get Lewis C. out of "Beautiful Gems" is beyond me.

Why Did You Change The Title???

from what is printed in the book?

Your academics and citations are worthy of a criminal citation.

What the frick and where is the "old poetry website" AND PLEASE your source for the author????

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Inquiring Minds Want To Know!!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:19 PM

Let us try this a different way.

From what Mr. Noble posted - to the Mudcat - it appears that "Beautiful Gems" has authoritatively identified the author. THIS is FALSE.

PLEASE - Do Not use the Mudcat as a reference for a primary source.

Return to the 60's. Question all authority. Triple check all references.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:28 PM

Gargoyle-

You may be correct that the attribution of Lewis Carroll for "Sea Dirge" is incorrect in Oldpoetry but it is there and I don't think I actually posted it there but simply transfered the information to Mudcat. Here's the link to Carroll's page at Oldpoetry: Click here!

I do harbor some suspicions of anthologies which list poems as anonymous. But there are no literary references to what book of Carroll's poems this one was published in at Oldpoetry.

I haven't any additional notes on this poem myself at this point.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:31 PM

Gargoyle-

However, if you do a web search for "sea dirge" poem you will find multiple listing of Lewis Carroll as the author.

Gee, that took a whole 10 seconds!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: JeffB
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM

It is in my copy of "The Humorous verse of Lewis Carroll", (Dover 1960, reprinted from Macmillan 1933)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:53 AM

Shall I hold your coats, gentlemen?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:05 AM

Aspersions at 10 paces!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:59 PM

Mr. Noble

I am more than willing to let this lie with our fathers full fathom five.

A few notes for accuracy:

The copy you posted IS, the version from "Beautiful Gems" and has more verses than the "Humorous Collection" which IS credited to Carrol.

Your's is correct. I left out the entire "Pinch a dog" stanza in transcription.

The differences in "Gems" and not in "Humorous" are:

Beat a dog = "Humorous" and your copy
Pinch a dog = "Gems" in my copy

Sea = capitalized in yours and "Humorous" sea = "Gems" no cap

(It was the "An Englishman's Sea-Dirge" title and the "dog line" I used in searching for previous web sources ironic I left it out.)

Stanzas in Gems not included in Humorous.

"But it makes the intellect clear and keen."
Prove it! Prove it! How can that be?"
"Why, what does B-sharp in music mean,
If not the natural C?"

What! Keen? With such questions as: When's high tide?
Is shelling shrimps an improvement to tea?
Were donkeys intended for men to ride?
Such are our thoughts by the Sea.

Once I met a friend in the street,
With wife, and nurse, and children three;
Never again such a sight may I meet
As that party from the Sea.

Their cheeks were hollow, their steps were slow,
Convicted felons they seemed to be;
"Are you going to prison, dear friend?" "Oh, no!
We're returning from the Sea."

Sincerely,
Most Friendly Regards,
GARGOYLE

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 10:52 AM

Gargoyle-

Graciously done, and well noted.

This is the kind of ditty that inspires others to add or subtract a verse or two or change a line. I've never tried to sing it but maybe it's time to give it a try at the next shanty/forebitter session!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 12:21 PM

Was it Johnson that said,"The man who would go to sea for pleasure would go to Hell for holiday"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM

Dick-

I'm reminded of the last verse of the song "Auckland to the Bluff," composed by Rudy Sunde of New Zealand:

The work was hard and the pay was mean,
The food was rotten and our quarters none too clean;
A journey south was always rough,
So I jumped the ship when we pulled into Bluff;
So here in Bluff I've settled down,
Never again will I leave this town;
Never again will I go to sea,
Never again will it see me!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: A Sea Dirge
From: Artful Codger
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 02:13 PM

Doing a very cursory check against my copy of Humorous Verse, I note other differences from the Gems-derived copy above. For instance, verse 1, line 3 should end "that I hate the most", and the "Beat/pinch a dog" verse referred to is lacking entirely! In short, the DT copy should not be taken as faithful either to Carroll or to Gems.

You can find an electronic copy of Carroll's original in Project Gutenberg's eBook of his Phantasmagoria and Other Poems (page 20). The original title is simply "A Sea Dirge". I have not checked this version for correctness.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: An Englishman's Sea Dirge
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM

Using Google Book Search, I found an anonymous copy of A SEA-DIRGE in Crosthwaite's Register of Facts and Occurrences Relating to Literature, the Sciences and the Arts, Whitehaven: Crosthwaite and Co., August, 1861, page 49. It is published with the following introductory note:

The second volume of "College Rhymes" reached us some little time back, but has escaped mention till now. We shall probably speak of it at some little length on another occasion; for the present, all we can do is to give the reader a slight taste of its quality. Here is a rhyme which will be found amusing by those readers whom this number may find making holiday at the seaside:—

The text agrees substantially with the one given by Charlie Noble in the other thread.

According to Wikipedia, Dodgson/Carroll had published numerous poems in magazines by 1861, but didn't begin inventing "Alice in Wonderland," the story that made him famous, until 1862.

Carroll's books Rhyme? and Reason? (1883) and The Hunting of the Snark and Other Poems and Verses (1903) both contain A SEA DIRGE, but with some verses omitted.