Saltburn v Pickering

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:55 AM

Gedpipes, no choice mate. Diagnosed with Diabetes around 4 years ago so gave up all that was bad for me. The cigarettes were a lot harder than the drink though but I've finally managed to kick both. Do you know what, I don't miss either of them and I'm probably around 80 quid a week better off!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Gedpipes
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:32 AM

Input
I was really warming to the clarity of your arguments (util you said you were teetotal. ;-)) to the original post from Scoresby. I don't detect any bias there at all.
Blue skies
Ged

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Bodhran Lover
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:15 AM

Honky Tonk and pub piano good.....folk piano bad

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:56 AM

Pianos are very nice when played by very good pianists.

What I thought was good the other week, was at a viilage hall in Lea. The act were very late, and the organisir said, "whilst we wait, my brother will play the piano". I thought, oh dear what are we going to get. He was one of the old time pub piano players and played a number of good old songs that you could sing too. Shame that tradition has died.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM

Les,

Nothing against piano players.......just pianos!

Paul

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:19 AM

Hi Input. Fine. There's a lot of reading to follow every twist!
I'll happily listen to Cara Dillon in a singaround, I happen not to be keen on Eddi Reader though I'm a great Burns fan. Best festival I've been to five recent years was Girvan for it's singaround in the Southfield, sadly closed. Great singer and song after each other each almost defying the next to do better, which they promptly did, and when the concerts finished most of the booked artists joined most of their audience bursting the singaround to it's seams with sheer class. But I'll admit that to my sorrow a good singaround is harder and harder to find.
I will listen to Bands on stage. St.Chartier festival has some cracking huge bands obviously impossible to fit in a pub room though better again I'd go for a band at a ceilidh.
John

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:17 AM

Hmm Cara Dillon with Sam lakeman with Garden Valley. Yes please.
Piano is lovely, but there you go, you would expect Banjo players not to like pianists. LOL :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Banji
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 09:59 AM

Come on guys, you can get excellence in sessions/ singarounds and shite on stage......and the other way round to!

CDs There Were Roses has excellent singing.....but why does she have to use keyboards? kills it for me! (In my humble opinion...it's all down to individual taste).

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: melodeonboy
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 09:58 AM

Purer?

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM

That's your perogative John and there's nothing wrong with that. I prefer to hear them in a purer form. Give me Cara Dillon's 'There Were Roses' over any I've heard in a singaround. Give me Eddi Reader's 'Green Grow The Rashes' over any I've heard in any singaround. It's horses for courses. Incidentally, I did retract that statement.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 09:47 AM

Can I pick out a phrase
"In fact the ONLY reason that most of these 'musicians' are in sessions and singarounds is because they haven't got a prayer of ever being booked at a festival like Pickering!"
It is nothing to do with the dearth of bookings that my favourite part of any festival is the singaround, face to face across the room is the way I like to hear folk songs; that is the way we inherited them.
John Wilson

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:06 AM

Only 95 capacity for LNF? I guess you won't be needing my help for that one then? :-) I see you've got Roger Davies too. That's good. I see he's playing at P*******g too!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Banji
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:59 AM

150 for the whole event, 95 for the concerts!

Ceiling, try orbit.

I meant tickets attributed to you!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:57 AM

A latte per ticket sold? God, I'll be on the ceiling! Your capacity is......?

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:55 AM

OK, I can do a bun as down payment and a latte per ticket sold and free entrance if we sell out!

How's that?

Paul

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM

......... of course!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:50 AM

and free entrance of course :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM

Sorry mate, I'm teetotal. Maybe a few skinny lattes and a nice current bun!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Banji
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:44 AM

Thanks GTI....a few beers OK?

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:20 AM

Santa

Do you mean this http://youtube.com/watch?v=0VdXEm4VkTQ&feature=related

or this

http://youtube.com/watch?v=94wdRDWX5Lo&feature=related :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:19 AM

No they're not paying me Paul and, yes, I'll gladly help with your promotion (only if you pay me :-))

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Santa
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:15 AM

Don't feed the troll.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:13 AM

GTI......are they paying you? If not would you like to help with promotion of some of the Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club events. You are very good at it!

We've got Last Nights Fun in November for a start!

Paul

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM

Why on Earth would I resent it? As I said earlier, I don't give a toss if there are 20 festivals on within ten miles of each other. It makes no difference to me. I know where I'm heading, just the same as you do! The whole point that I've been trying to make is that everyone has a freedom of choice in this country (thank God). If somebody wants to hold a folk festival in Marske, Redcar or Loftus on the same weekend as Saltburn then they have the absolute right to do so. Neither you, me or anyone else can stop them. Regarding any 'resentment', may I cast your mind back to why this thread developed in the first place!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Saltburn Regular
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:54 AM

GTI - Hopefully they won't indeed. Then we won't have to have all thsi bickering :-)
The bickering had stopped until you decided to start it again!

the two festivals are at least 40 miles apart (hardly down the road) and they're in different counties.
Dont see that the county title has anything to do with it unless to mislead people not familiar with the area.
Without relocating - I was born in Yorkshire, married in Teesside, my first child born in Teesside, second in Cleveland, third in Redcar & Cleveland. Now they are talking of absorbing us into Middlesbrough.
All without moving, so county boundaries prove nothing!

I think Betsy is right re. your resentment of Saltburn. If you dont resent it then you are giving out the wrong signals.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:46 AM

Sorry for thread drift but I can't resist giving an old mate a plug...

Just for the record it's 'Dave' Bowie rather than David (whose real name, as any fule kno, is actually Jones). Dave and I go back to the 70s and have played in many bands together, and we even worked as a duo for while (he's on my last album). Steve met him through Maggie Boyle with whom he plays in Sketch with (jazz-turned-folk virtuoso) Gary Boyle No Relation - with whom Dave also goes back to the year dot. Dave also plays with Snake Davis (sax with M People), Mark Creswell and Helen Watson in Burden of Paradise, and at one time was in both my band Vandals In Africa and Martha Reeves and the Vandellas! He's played with loads of other great bands too. In those days he called himself Dave Davis lest people thought he was t'other un. I've not seen him with Steve yet, but the reports are excellent (as you'd expect). Dave is a really classy bull-fiddler and a top bloke all round. I understand there will also be some gigs with Parky too, which will be fanTAStic (apart from the fact that I was planing to do some gigs with B and P and now it'll look like I'm nicking the Tislton Band, doh)!

Sorry - back to Bickering, oops I mean Pickering.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Scoresby
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:26 AM

Just looking at other festivals on over this same weekend

MUSIC4PEOPLE SUMMER SCHOOL OF MUSIC, Giggleswick School, Settle, N Yorkshire.
FAIRPORT'S CROPREDY CONVENTION, Nr Banbury, Oxon
BRADFIELD TRADITIONAL MUSIC WEEKEND, High Bradfield, Sheffield.
DARTMOOR FOLK FESTIVAL, South Zeal, Okehampton, Devon.
SALTBURN INTERNATIONAL FESTIVAL OF FOLK MUSIC, DANCE & SONG,
SUMMER SUNDAE WEEKENDER, Leicester.
BROADSTAIRS FOLK WEEK, Kent
FREE ECLECTICA MUSIC FESTIVAL, St Helens, Lancs
MORLAND FOLK DANCE WEEK, nr Penrith, Cumbria
BLUES WEEK 2008, University of Northampton
KLEZFEST LONDON: YIDDISH SONG & DANCE, London
BELLADRUM TARTAN HEART FESTIVAL, Beauly, Invernessshire

The point I was trying to make is the industry cannot support the increasing number of festivals being put on. Small festivals cannot compete with the large promotional companies.

I personally know the organisers of both Pickering and Saltburn Festivals and I wish them every success with their festivals.

In the end audiences will go to which festival or event they choose...

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:18 AM

Hopefully they won't indeed. Then we won't have to have all thsi bickering :-) It would make sense to hold it on the last Friday of Whitby week and catch all the punters going home along the A169. But then, of course, there's Towersey, DOH!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:14 AM

Let's face it, there are only so many weekends in the summer season so there will always be clashes somewhere. Probably why Shepley decided to hold theirs practically in the middle of winter (well, it is up in the Pennines).

Ideally, no they shouldn't clash. Practically there probably was no option. Hopefully, next year they won't.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 05:05 AM

"I don't really see why they couldn't have done it another weekend."

I think he expained why. It's obviously to do with their events calendar. They run a lot of events up and down the country throughout the year, As I said, as a business, it must suit them. Incidentally, the two festivals are at least 40 miles apart (hardly down the road) and they're in different counties.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM

I don't really see why they couldn't have done it another weekend.
They didn't want to clash with Cambridge or Sidmouth or Whitby, so why shouldn't the same reasons apply for Saltburn.
If a festival is good, I dont really see what difference it would make which weekend it was.
However to have 2 festivals in close proximity on the same weekend must have an effect on numbers one way or another.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:47 AM

Paul, NO, I'm not deliberately missing the point at all. I'm airing MY view and I'm sorry if it differs from yours! The guy from The Events Office posted on this thread earlier stating HIS reasons. They were valid reasons. Why would they hold it the weekend before? Cambridge is on and Sidmouth starts, two of the premier festivals in the calendar. Why would they hold it the weekend after? Whitby starts. It would be better for all I agree, IF it had been possible but it clearly isn't. Maybe next year they will move it, who knows? But, as a business, they're going to do what's best for them.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:38 AM

GTI......are you deliberately missing the point?

It would be better for all (both sets of organisers & punters) if the festivals were on different weekends. I'm not saying pickering shouldn't put it on the same weekend....they have a perfect right to do whatever they want, I'm just saying it would be better.

I for one (not withstanding the mighty Kirkby Fleetham Village Feast, see above) would have liked the CHOICE to go to both.

Paul

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:25 AM

Nutty, the same applies for Whitby then. Raise the bar and offer better performance. Competition is healthy. Why are you so scared of Pickering? Surely, if Saltburn is as good as you claim then they will have nothing to fear.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:22 AM

Paul, at what point did I suggest that it's a GOOD thing? You've lost me! Personally, as a punter, it wouldn't bother me if there were 20 festivals in North Yorkshire/Cleveland that weekend. It would have to be a GOOD festival to beat that line-up at Pickering. Can I remind you that this whole thread started because somebody suggested that Pickering shouldn't have put their festival on to clash with Saltburn. If it suits them, why the hell shouldn't they? Maybe it'll raise the bar for all festivals in the area. I've been going to Whitby for years and, as a concert-goer, it's become hugely disappointing. I think if you were to ask Graham Pirt and his Whitby team, I'm sure he'd love to sell a lot more season tickets. The problem is that there's little value in buying one I'm afraid. I'm happy just to hang out and take in the occasional gig.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:05 AM

How about calling it Pickering Crouch (not to be confused with Peter Crouch)or Pickering Belly :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 04:01 AM

GTI....you seem to be suggesting that it is a good thing that the dates clash? I can't see this? It is an unfortunate accident at best.

As I have already said, very happy to see a new festival in the calender in N.Yorks but it would be better for all concerned if it were a different weekend......surely you can see that?

Paul

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: nutty
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:51 AM

Input .... If you are maintaining that Saltburn Festival impacted on Whitby, then, surely, the new Pickering Festival (which is also the weekend before) will have an even greater impact.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:41 AM

Just trying to find a polite aphorism.

Wasn't me who brought it up (sorry!)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:28 AM

Well it seems to suggest that you only get it in India

delhi belly noun. Diarrhea or dysentery contracted from eating Indian (i.e., from India) food. Also Karachi crouch.

Unless they import it direct from India.

I think Karachi Crouch sounds better.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:23 AM

"hope theLeveller in doing so, discovers that the toilet facilities are excellent and plenty"

One of the reasons for buying an old caravan after years of camping was so that we could have our own 'facilities' - and a comfortable bed! Anyway, after years of festival food, I'm probably immune to Delhi-belly.

Glad we could bring this discussion back to basics!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 25 Apr 08 - 02:49 AM

I never said, JHW, that Saltburn festival DID clash with Whitby. But, down the years, it must have affected Whitby's sales. Again I'll suggest, that the organizers of Saltburn could have picked a better date all those years ago.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Bluegrassman
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 08:28 PM

Back to the Indian in Pickering, they do deliver, they also debeef and they dechicken :-)

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: JHW
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 06:18 PM

I wouldn't say Saltburn had any right to be the only festival but for everyone's benefit it must be worth being circumspect and sympathetic to other events and avoiding clashes? I don't remember Saltburn (or presumably Redcar?) clashing with Whitby.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 05:33 PM

Unhand me, Madam! I saw the dress first!

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 04:52 PM

Would love to see /hear George P as a pretty blonde mandoliniste...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 02:03 PM

Annual, is my understanding.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: Santa
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM

Can you please make this clearer to those less informed? Did Saltburn (either in its earlier incarnation at Redcar or at the time of the move) set their date to be the same weekend as Whitby, so that some individuals had to make the choice between them? Or were they merely adjacent? Close?

My preference is for concerts rather than participation too, but I'll still be at Saltburn. Mainly for personal reasons, but an annual injection of The Wilsons also has a lot to do with it! That's no put-down of Pickering - I might even consider a dash down to catch Bella Hardy, depending on timings, but I'd probably miss too much.

I do think that there is a bit of a difference between a week-long festival and a weekend one.

One other point - is the Pickering festival intended as a one-off or an annual event?

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM

Dear Betsy,

I am NOT anti-Saltburn at all. Have you not studied the whole thread carefully? I am completely pro-Saltburn, Pickering and any other folk festival in existence. I got irritated by some of the bile that was tossed around on this site regarding the knocking of a (How dare they?) NEW festival. I'm a lover of excellent music and, yes, my preference is for concerts and not participation. Is that a crime?

Regarding my 'anti-Saltburn' stance - I was simply pointing out that all this rubbish levelled at the Pickering people about their 'cannibalisation' of Saltburn didn't seem to matter when they (Saltburn/Redcar) were doing it to Whitby. And yes, Whitby were there first and they are a SATURDAY to FRIDAY festival.

Subject: RE: Saltburn v Pickering
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 11:49 AM

Input - No one mentioned your Whitby scenario-because it didn't happen.
Redcar Folk Festival after 25+ years moved a couple of miles down the Road to Saltburn for many reasons. Incidentally both are Weekend Festivals whereas Whitby is a Monday to Friday Festival but THAT is too, unimportant.
I shall content myself with looking forward to saying a warm Hello to Nutty is, to a charming civilised person who I have known for 40 years, and, also to someone who I don't know yet, but I am assured that he (El Greko) is a marvellous performer, and, a decent sort if he is to be judged by his contributions to the various discussions in Mudcat. The very same can be said for GedPipes.
For your part Input I find you irritatingly anti-Saltburn, for reasons I know not, but I do agree with you regarding an Indian lunch is probably not the best way to start a long day, however hope theLeveller in doing so, discovers that the toilet facilities are excellent and plenty.