English Folk Degree?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Ed.
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:31 AM

I guessed that yo'd say that...

Do you agree with the general sentiment of the BNP literature? Is it more rrgt than wrong in your opinin?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:12 AM

As I've already said, Ed, when the pre-election pamphlets are delivered, I read all of them and as with most people probably agree with all parties on SOME things, as well as disagreeing with them on some things. I'm not a member of the BNP, and their "red, white AND blue" - I prefer the "positive nationalism"/ENGLISH nationalism of the English Democrats.
Now, as Sedayne suggested above, unless anyone has anymore on-thread comments about the degree in question, this should now be a dead thread (although the last time/thread I suggested such, the next 100 posts came rapidly indeed).

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Ed.
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:31 AM

David (WAV), may I ask you one question that might help clear all this up. Do you agree with the views of the BNP?

Their mission statement is here: Click to read.

Do you agree? A link to your rank poetry/prose is not an answer.

Ed

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:31 AM

No - I'll never re/emigrate, NALI, but I may VIST the USA AGAIN (see poems #37-41, if you like).

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST,GEUST[not arsed loggin in]
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 02:31 AM

actually WAV..

have you ever considered moving to middle America

I just sorta suspect

you might find the perfect ENGLAND

you are crusading for...




and as a bonus ..

every now and then Chanel 4 might commision a documentary crew
to give you airtime on national UK TV
to broadcast your enlightening sermons.
to all of us back here in your own God given English Fair Island utopia

well.. just a thought.!!??

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST,GEUST[not arsed loggin in]
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 07:35 PM

"Also in the current issue of Mojo, John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) meets "Maddy Prior. Now how English is THAT?"

well excited..!!!!!

without knowing eff all about this meeting..

just the thought of seeing the 2 of 'em both dancing together

at an annual BBC music alumni awards ceromony

sends scary shivers

up my

[word deleted to spare the blushes of the swear-word over sensitive souls amongst us]


one mad aunty on too many sherries at a xmas family party

..and Maddy Prior in her swirling hippy skirts

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:54 PM

Also in the current issue of Mojo, John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) meets Maddy Prior. Now how English is THAT?

So English I opened it a thread especially devoted to it - see Here, although the moderators didn't find it folkloric enough to be folklore...

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:19 PM

Doesn't much more English, though I'm sure the originator of this thread will have something (or nothing) to say :-D
I have a wee surprise in store for 'our friend' unfortunately it'll have to wait till tomorrow, as I'm still writing and illustrating at the moment, oh and it's very, very English. :-D

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:09 PM

oop - that there were me.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:07 PM

As English as it's possible to be. Well spotted!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:47 PM

Also in the current issue of Mojo, John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) meets Maddy Prior. Now how English is THAT? :-D

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:31 PM

The show is over. The audience get up to leave their seats. Time to collect their coats and go home. They turn round... No more coats and no more home.

It's many (many) years since I last held the cover of Space Ritual in my hands; I recall pouring over the detail of this veritable palimpsest of cut & paste in a state of general hammered-ness pondering the glorious implication of it all. Why fear death? It's the most beautiful thing about life! I remember with a certain clarity; and, as I say, the above Show is over... quote. Of course it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I'm getting it mixed up with something else entirely, but I'll look it up when next the opportunity presents itself - maybe the next time on my hands & knees raking though the second-hand vinyl in Action Records in Preston.

Elsewhere, I've mentioned the current issue of Mojo, on p. 24 you can read about the latest Hawkwind project, In Search of Space - The Return. It's worth paying the cover prive for the picture of Brocky alone.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:18 PM

Did we ever find out which English culture WAV wants?

---
Thinking back RB's sort of "inherited English genes", etc. my own "culture genes" are confused. My father's generations of living in Norwich are quite different to my mothers generations of living in Shropshire not far from the Welsh borders and her living in a community that had far more "Welsh chapel" about it than it had my father's Norwich English.

Of course I'm not "pure English" anyway. My fathers side were Flemish and came over to Norwich with the woolen trade centuries ago, so amongst other things, I suppose I'm an immigrant of sorts.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:38 PM

WAV said, "
"A similar mess over nationality occurs in the sporting world where English children, for example, can hope to play (perhaps managed by a citizen of a nation they may compete against) football for England, rugby-league for England/Great Britain, rugby-union for England/British Isles, athletics for England/U.K., golf for ngland/Europe, cricket for a combined England and Wales, or tennis for Great Britain - but Wimbledon is still The All England Lawn Tennis Championships…Anyone for friendly-rival republics?!"

I'm all for doing away with the monarchy, it's a waste of time, space and money, however it has nothing to do with music, which is my prime interest, and WAV, once more you've cut and pasted much and you said absolutely nothing, and you know what,The All England Tennis thingie, that's something else that needs a close look in terms of, a waste of space, time and money, wait though, I don't believe anyone that is English holds the mens or womens titles currently... Oh Dear! :-D

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: trevek
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:29 PM

I can't see a problem with an English folk music degree if it focuses on the styls of music within England. For this to be thorough it would naturally have to acknowledge and highlight aspects of cross-pollenation, history, immigration etc.

It doesn't have to suggest there is a homogenous folk music in England. It might include things like bell-ringing (not just English, of course), pipes, diasporic musics (Scots, Jewish, Reggae etc).

If you look at the Finnish folk scene you find many of the musicians studied at the folk department of the Sibellius academy but there's nothing homognous about the Finnish sound(s).

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GEUST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:03 PM

Bugger it !!!

can't find any Skrewdriver CDs in my collection..

See I think if we all listen to only nazi-skin Oi music this summer,
we can cut out the 'middle-man';
save the likes of WAV a lot of hard work
trying his subtle approach to influence our tastes and thinking..

sod it, if by September, after such hardcore musical indoctrination
we're not all out on the streets protesting
against immigration..

well blimey.. !!!????

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST,Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:01 PM

I can guess who Guest, yayaya is. I can guess that they've also PMed WAV to tell them of my affiliation with EFDSS, as the person in question is a great friend of WAVs and also a nutter who his banned from just about every folk forum there is.

Unlike me, who has never, EVER been banned from a form. nope, not once.

:)

And as Johnny says, i am not posting as a representative of any organisation (which is one reason I choose to use a nom de guerre.) I relresent only my own views here.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: trevek
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:37 PM

Sedayne, thanks for the link. I love small pipes (I try to convince my wife to, as well).

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:15 PM

"me (DS) believing in the British nation and not believing in the UN, which is not at all. :-D"...from here...

"A similar mess over nationality occurs in the sporting world where English children, for example, can hope to play (perhaps managed by a citizen of a nation they may compete against) football for England, rugby-league for England/Great Britain, rugby-union for England/British Isles, athletics for England/U.K., golf for ngland/Europe, cricket for a combined England and Wales, or tennis for Great Britain - but Wimbledon is still The All England Lawn Tennis Championships…Anyone for friendly-rival republics?!"

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:07 PM

I must admit to being partial,(and I don't care what anyone thinks!) to a band from Minneapolis, in the U.S named Boiled In Lead, two of the musicians are 'folkies' and the other two are 'metal' musicans, the combination is, shall we say, VERY interesting. I recommend their first CD, entitled From The Ladle to the Grave. I got the CD from my niece who was visiting in Minneapolis at the time.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:06 PM

"I believe in the English nation and the UN."

We know you do, WAV, you've told us often enough. But still none of us has the faintest idea what you mean by it. Is there any possibility that you might one day explain yourself?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GEUST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:02 PM

oops.. at the moment I'm listening to some shamefully dodgy

Pagan Viking Folk Metal CDs

honestly, just because I'm a lefty folkie,
don't mean I can't enjoy
the 'wrong' kinds of music from time to time..


I'll get me Crombie...........

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:53 PM

I don't think that quote's in Space Ritual, although it's a long time since I heard it. It is in The Revolution of Everyday Life; it's part of a quote from a Russian writer called Rozanov, which Vaneigem says is 'the best definition of nihilism'.

The show is over. The audience get up to leave their seats. Time to collect their coats and go home. They turn round... No more coats and no more home.

Reminds me of that essential distillation of phenomenological existentialism by one P. McCartney:

And, though she feels as if she's in a play,
She is anyway...

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Def Shepard
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:49 PM

About as relevant as me believing in the British nation and not believing in the UN, which is not at all. :-D

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:39 PM

I believe in the tooth fairy. Is that relevant?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 01:18 PM

Can you believe he repeats this nonsense over and over. "I believe in the English nation and the UN

Personally I believe in the British nation and I don't believe in the UN. What tthat has to do with folk or anyother sort of music, I have no idea, oh and I'm listening to Neil Young right now, decidedly un-English and definitely not folk, so sue me if you want! :-D

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:49 PM

Sorry, "Cool as Fuck" was the definitive Inspiral Carpets tee-shirt.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:35 PM

This is the right link for the Dragon Ash song - Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo - Japanese hip-hop - cool as fuck - check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpsEJOryZ7U

Hal an Tow - we're off to Rumbelows!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:30 PM

Oh I see - Geust...

The room is empty, everyone's taken their coats and gone home - no more coats, no more homes (where's that from again?) (Hawkwind - Space Ritual). Hey - you should have been here a few days ago, Christ! but that was a blinder, still, it's all over now, even the shouting, only a few stray ghosts. What? What am I still doing here? Oh I - er - left my hat - no scarf - that's it - I left my scarf, but someone else must have took it - because - it doesn't appear to be here now. Summer now anyway, just about - the May's been and gone, clouts have been cast and we've sang our May Carols and our Hal-an-Tows and now we're off to Rumbelows for a new telly, seeing the old one got smashed in the riot - much fucking use it was too - some good stuff on too - Jonathan Meades last night - EastEnders - Early Music on BBC4 tonight - so no need for a scarf really - not in this weather. And Springwatch - let's not forget about Springwatch - although you can see the real thing on Fairhaven Lake - the birds are out with their young - the swans, geese, ducks, canada geese, coots, moorhens. Summer - music - must dig out my Augustus Pablo CDs - King Tubby's Meets the Rockers Uptown - African Headcharge (remember them?) - the Pistols - XTC's White Music - Young Marble Giants - Burning Spear - Digable Planets - Dragon Ash - remember that song at the end of Battle Royale? God, I love Beat Takeshi - my favourite's Kikujiro but I still cry when I hear that - like Born Slippy at the end of Trainspotting - only better - somehow - but don't ask me to explain - just listen - Shizukana Hibi no Kaidan wo - the Stair Steps of a Quiet Day - yes - just - listen -

Grass and trees become green, flowers colorfully bloom.
Seasons come by again. A comfortable spring day,
With out anything to do I think by myself
in the tree lined street.
The days go by without any break.
I am struggling to manage myself here.
Sometimes, let's live a life
Without thinking so deeply.
Morning comes, the sun rises again.
Outside the window the south wind
blows the pain in my heart.
Shall the tears I shed in the past days
be pulled into my unconsciousness.
what is important is the light,
I'd like to stay here a bit more.

WE GO EVERY DAY, let's go with laughter
To the direction of the shining light
heading into the open future ahead.
WE GO EVERY DAY, let's go with laughter
Like pouring water into a vase
my wishes please be granted.

SO The face and the tears
washed by an off season rain
before the rain stops,
GERRA I smile with a clean face.
Like that, goes away ONE WEEK.
With my tired body I take ONE DRINK
At the meeting place my friends are all there.
like every day we spend the night chatting nonsense
to continue on with these days
I flap my wings like a bird.
Everyone is doing their best. Don't lose; we don't have a pinch runner.
Going over the people laughing at you,
catch the dream you imagined into your hands.
Wish to the shooting star after the rain.
Now stand up my friend.

WE GO EVERY DAY, let's go with laughter
To the direction of the shining light
heading into the open future ahead.
WE GO EVERY DAY, let's go with laughter
Like pouring water into a vase
my wishes please be granted.

Without no reason I set off my mobile.
In the far back of the noise
can't you hear the voice of the wind
drifting away now where and why.
Obvious though, I listen on.
Like putting your own future over it.
Wanting something to be said about my self, is the same feeling.
My life goes away bit by bit.
Now I possess multiple copies of my childhood dreams.
I make a stupid face
as I brush my teeth in front of the mirror in the morning.
Going outside. I live a day like this.
I'll stop waiting for the night.
Resting isn't bad, charge up your energy.
quietly the city ticks away time.
Connecting our dreams, we make an arch.

Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo

The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day

Under the sky without the breeze,
I reach out to catch tomorrow.

Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo
Shizukana hibi no kaidan wo

The stair steps of a quiet day
The stair steps of a quiet day

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:45 AM

As I've said on this very thread, obviously where you have not read, Guest?, I'm not a member of the BNP or any other political party - I believe in the English nation and the UN.
And, if it was compulsory to log in to post, I may not need to be quite as repetative as I have been - I think it's likely that some newbies to a thread read the first few commments, then go straight to the last, thus I keep responding to suchlike.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GEUST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM

and come to think of it.
I have vague memories of one of them or another name I can not recall right now.
I'm sure that poster would open new threads on contentious subjects
and then just sit back and disapear
from all the inevitable divisive arguing and flaming he/she'd provoked.
Maybe just joining in now and then with the odd bland comment
or nodd in the direction of 'welcoming' BNP doctine.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GEUST
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:30 AM

I just think its a bit rich,
desparately trying to distract & evade
from reasonable accusations of
RACISM
by criticising one of your opponents for merely SWEARING !!!


PS.. just for fun

heres a list of previous BNP sympathetic mudcat posters
that I can remember at the moment

DavidHannam
zelger
harmony
GUEST,James


curiously enough, they were posting a few years ago
at a time when BNP were trying to 'soften' their image
and present & market themeselves as a more 'respectable'
voteable party.
Coincedently, roughly the same time WAV decided to teach himself folk music
and pop up in 'our' music venues and forums. ???

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:46 AM

do Northumbrian traditional musicians (for example)actually consider their music as "English" music or as "Northumbrian"?

Northumbrian first, English second, British third, European forth, Terrestrial fifth, though in the playing of my relative Tom Clough one does catch a glimpse of extraterrestrial infinity...

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM

some of the language you have resorted to

It amuses me when watching TV and the announcer says, the following programme contains strong language, when what they really mean is that at some point someone's going to say fuck. If they say really strong language then someone's going to say cunt. So that's it, strong language = fuck, and really strong language = cunt. I might add that I regard neither fuck nor cunt to be in any way strong nor yet offensive, and relish them both literally and otherwise as being almost sacred to our primal purpose on Planet Earth, with regard to that most Sweet & Holy of Communions with the most Sweet & Holy of Feminine Principles by way of process, procedure and such wonderful, wonderful apparatus. That such words become used as derogatory, much less strong, language is fascinating in itself but surely no cause for any alarm, other than to abide by a few basic protocols of appropriateness without getting too hung up on them as might be the case here.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: trevek
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM

Out of curiosity, do Northumbrian traditional musicians (for example)actually consider their music as "English" music or as "Northumbrian"?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:39 AM

"Keep an eye out behind and on your behind WAV. A reaming you shall have in the best English tradition!" Master Baiter...attacking someone from behing may be your style, but please DON'T assume it is E. trad.
As I've said before to the likes of Ruth Archer and Def Shepard, there's what we want, and there's the tactics we are prepared to use.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: johnadams
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:28 AM

Walksaboutverse wrote:

(And, by the way Ruth, if it's true that you are on the committee of the EFDSS, are the others aware of this thread, and some of the language you have resorted to?)


Nobody has posted to this discussion on behalf of the National Council of the EFDSS so any contributor's membership of the society or its governing body is irrelevant.

Johnny Adams - who IS a member of EFDSS National Council

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: mattkeen
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:17 AM

Quote yayay...and are they aware that she's previously been banned from other folk discussion boards for trolling and abusive postings?


I think you would be the trouble making troll.

Take your nasty anonymous shite out of here

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: TheSnail
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:08 AM

Ruth Archer

don't forget this lot...

The Steadfast Trust

I had considered mentioning this bunch but didn't want to give them any publicity.

I'm sure there have been threads before on the infiltration of the right wing into folk music.

My own experience is of a chap who contacted me expressing an interest in English traditional music. I encouraged him and he eventually started coming along to the club and to sessions singing songs from the repertoire of Walter Pardon, Harry Cox, Henry Burstow and others. He also showed ability as an organiser and made moves to take folk music into local primary schools. We thought he was a valuable find. He had some eccentric ideas about a Golden Age of Anglo-Saxon England and claimed to worship the A-S pantheon but this seemed fairly harmless.

Then he astounded us all by circulating a press release for The Steadfast Trust announcing himself as the regional spokesman. The covering letter contained a load of tosh about the common genetic pool of the English, North-West Germans and Scandinavians and a rant against the dilution of English culture by immigration. I have been doing my best ever since to make sure that everyone that needs to know does know. He has vanished from the clubs and sessions but is showing signs of trying to get into the dance scene.

The Steadfast Trust might suit WAV quite well. He should be encouraged to join; it would make them look even more ridiculous.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: GUEST,yayaya
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:58 AM

...and are they aware that she's previously been banned from other folk discussion boards for trolling and abusive postings?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 08:14 AM

I, as it happens, was born in St. Mary's Hospital, Manchester, just a few hours before those football words were spoken, Sedayne and Ruth. (And, by the way Ruth, if it's true that you are on the committee of the EFDSS, are the others aware of this thread, and some of the language you have resorted to?)
"As I say, it may even be that the Scottish and Irish courses have got it wrong ... or that their market research showed they had enough of a market for such a course" (Sue)...there are about 50 million people in England, about 5 million in Scotland, and about 4 million in Ireland...?!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:53 AM

There's some people on the pitch...

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:17 AM

Could it really be all over?

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 02:25 AM

125 plays today!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Master Baiter
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:47 PM

WAV's arse is at risk from a jackhammer attack. I am coming for you. Prepare to be reamed!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:14 PM

Inclusivity is not the answer. Otherwise the optimum course would be a degree in anything.

There is a good summary above. Once the Irish and Scottish musical traditions were at risk from the English. Now it is the other way round.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM

I can't believe this load of drivel is still going on.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 06:59 PM

Nope,
Missed one, you were right. How sad!

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 06:58 PM

Dick,
I counted em all and I make this one 500.

Subject: RE: English Folk Degree?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 06:52 PM

500.Ihave been out done a gig, and this is still going on