Mark Kermode on Skiffle

Subject: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:15 AM

From last Sunday's Observer newspaper, this might amuse/inform.

Mark Kermode & Dodge Brothers

RtS

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:37 AM

Saw him and his band on the Culture Show a few weeks ago. Enjoyed it. Not hard core though is he? otherwise he'd use a tea chest and broom handle.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Splott Man
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:40 AM

Great article, including a respectful nod to Cardiff's own Railroad Bill.

I started on tea chest base around the age of 15. I remember us breaking off from rehearsals in my friend's garden shed to go into town to see A Hard Day's Night.

That dates me.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:56 AM

A fun article by an obvious enthusiast. It even prompted me to go over to YouTube and check out Who Pumped The Wind In My Doughnut!

Mick

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: BanjoRay
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 08:00 AM

Interesting article. So Mark Kermode's a fan of Charlie Poole, Dock Boggs, the McGee brothers etc - there's hope for him yet.
Ray

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:57 PM

Hm....beats me why part time musicians can get so many column inches when poor buggers who have squandered their entire existence on music get their life's work dismissed with a fart and a belch and bugger off in three lines at the back of Froots.

The other umpteen pages of every periodical given over to the delights of whatever crap the record companies are using for tax loss this week.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Goose Gander
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 02:22 PM

Reading this article, I'm forced to conclude that I currently play in a skiffle band.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Sunny Delight
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 02:48 PM

"Hm....beats me why part time musicians can get so many column inches when poor buggers who have squandered their entire existence on music get their life's work dismissed with a fart and a belch and bugger off in three lines at the back of Froots."

Bitter? Twisted? Moi? Nevah!

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: pavane
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:53 AM

It always helps if your name is already known for something else.
People will come to your gigs then out of curiosity, however bad you are.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:30 AM

I hadn't heard of Mark Kermode before. That helps. I don't associate him with negativistic whining, so I know which of the two sounds like more fun.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 12:40 PM

Who are you snidey Camp jack?

I make no secret of what i am and what i do. and I write and perform which requires a degree of positivity.
http://bigalwhittle.co.uk/

If you don't know who I am after all this time on mudcat - its just laziness and narrow mindedness and a naturally vicious tongue that snakes out from your snidey excuse for a personality.

On Mudcat, I speak out for a section of the folk world that is constantly shit on by the flash farts in the media, and folkocracy.

Most of them daren't speak up, because they are dependant on the bloody swine for what crumbs they throw them. For the folk oligarchy stand at the gate - deciding who will make a living and who will make a fortune and who will get nothing.

I am too ill to have anything to hope for from a performing career so they have no power over me.

Of course it could be you are one one of these professional bastards - the real negativity in the folk music machine.

Come out, come out whoever you are.......

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 01:08 PM

I don't know anything about Mr Kermode, either ~ he must be some kind of celebrity in the UK, but not so well-known in the US. I'm sure that pavanne was correct in observing that "It always helps if your name is already known for something else."

In the US, we have (for example) movie stars Kevin Bacon fronting a rock band with his brother, and Bruce Willis whipping out a harmonica at every talk-show opportunity. These fellows are basically competant musicians, but not great artists, and would be very unlikely to attract media attention with their music were they not famous already for something else.

Al, I'd be concerned if unknown skiffle-playing buskers were getting more press coverage than myself, but don't waste your time and energy on resentment of this particular bit of celebrity-centric publicity.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 01:23 PM

The great thing about skiffle was that it didn't ask you to hate anybody.

I've only heard of Whittle via Mudcat, have never heard him or looked at his site. And given his endlessly repeated utter loathing of everything traditional and insistence on how the Dylan/Nashville crowd he so much likes have been persecuted by the folk mafio, I am NEVER going to bother looking for any of his stuff. If you're going to write like a perpetually adolescent Dylan epigone you can expect people will think that's what you sound like.

At least Stockhausen, Sun Ra and Lee Scratch Perry could make paranoia entertaining.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 01:58 PM

I haven't invited you (and certainly never expected you) to have any powers of discrimination. Anonymous One.

if you knew my work - you would know that i perform quite a lot of traditional pieces. However theres a fair amount of crap in the trad canon of work - if you don't know that, you don't know much. Most serious tradsingers have a hard time sorting out something that's performable, and 'works'.

Dunno what epigone means, but i take it you're calling me some sort of arsehole. the feelings mutual.

Soundslike a interesting folk club - stockhausen, Sun Ra and and lee Scratch perry.

You'll find me doing Streets of London and the wild rover with all the other epigones. Atleast the audience tend to recognise the chorus.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 08:27 PM

Mark Kermode is known to Observer readers as one of the paper's film critics. Does that count as 'celebrity'?
I've noticed over the years that the Observer gives its journalists room to write about personal matters, presumably to give a 'human focus' to an otherwise offputting topic (like addiction, the NHS, or the care offered to old people). This article I quite enjoyed.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:20 AM

Dazbo
>>otherwise he'd use a tea chest and broom handle<<

you mean like this group

Jet Skiffle & Blues Local Lincolnshire lads.

Saw them playing yesterday.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:32 AM

Well I would like to defend Big Al

This guy has played on several occasions at Faldingworth Live for me and has always given a very good performance which was enjoyed very much by the audience. He is a very warm and kind likeable bloke.
He has a stage charisma that is really good and is funny, yet is an excellent musician and singer and a very good songwriter.

So Jack Campin, what's your claim to fame. Do you have a website with maybe some videos of what you do. I would be interested to have a look/listen.

Oh and like Big Al, am not frightened to put my real name here.

Les Worrall
http://www.faldingworthlive.co.uk/

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:45 AM

Sorry is this your website Jack?
http://www.campin.me.uk/

This is Big Al Whittle's website.
http://bigalwhittle.co.uk/

Do have a look Jack.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Ewan Spawned A Monster
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:45 AM

Mark Kermode has been playing skiffle - mainly in the north west - for donkeys years with the Railtown Bottlers. He's not a journo who's just discovered skiffle, he's a skiffle musician who subsequently became a journo. Good for him that he can use the day job to promote music he loves.

Can't see how in any way, shape or form this constitute an attack on Big Al and all those downtroddden singer songwriters who've elected him as their chosen representative, defender and spokesperson. Mark, like most musicians I know, has a day job to pay the bills. On a lot of levels, isn't this just the way of things? You win some, you lose some?

Please show me the conspiracy you frequently allude to and tell me who is in charge, Al.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Kevin Parker
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 06:37 AM

I enjoyed the article, which I saw as more plugging skiffle music in general than Mark Kermode's band in particular. It reminded me of playing with a skiffle band for a while just a couple of years ago.

My expectation when I first joined the band was that skiffle was all about 'novelty' songs like 'My old man's a dustman' - fine in their way but not something that bears too much repetition. I was pleasantly surprised by most of the repertoire - some great old Seeger, Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie songs, plus some wonderful spirituals. It was amazing to think that someone had a hit record with the the lines
'Where could I go, Oh lord where could I go, seeking a refuge for my succour and where to go'
in the chorus! And to my way of thinking, this type of skiffle lived on after Lonnie Donegan's heyday and can be heard in performers like the Band, the McGarrigles, and the Pogues.

Memorable moments included playing for perhaps the oldest (but definitely not the quietest) audience at the Edinburgh fringe, and sharing a venue with a school's production of Macbeth, walking on through pools of stage blood. Great fun!

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 10:07 PM

The article, the invitation to play on the Edinburgh fringe and other festivals, the record company etc, the radio plays, the occasional tv slot - all constitute incredible creative opportunities which are pissed away on a regular basis by 'well in' middle class gits.

These opportunities just don't come the way of hardworking working class musicians. If you haven't done the job - you don't know the conditions of service, but believe you me - it gets to be a real piss off.

I don't expect you to understand, but I don't think you have the right to be abusive when I bring up the fact (fact not opinion!) that many great musicians and songwriters(not me, I hasten to add) are simply not being heard. And it ain't right.

Still as long as you stand up for mediocrity and middle class privilege - rubbish and a defunct folk music, with no working class input will be your just deserts.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 03:48 AM

Just wanted to say thankyou for the words of support Villan. You are a good man.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:03 AM

I sympathise with the Drummer's frustration at the (possibly) undeserved publicity that Mr Kermode's skiffle group is getting. But I don't share his resentment of it.

Journalism – or any other kind of writing – is a tough way to make a living. Today you are working round the clock to deliver your copy by the deadline – tomorrow, a change in editorial policy sends you out on the street seeking a new job. It's no surprise that the stress of this life drives many writers to self-destruction through drink. If Mr Kermode chooses instead to unwind by playing skiffle in his free time, good for him. If audiences enjoy hearing him, and promoters find it profitable to hire him, good for them.

Having a name that's already known in some other arena may get a musician a few bookings, but the novelty quickly wears off. After that, you won't be asked back if you can't do the biz. Mr K may have been "lucky" to get a foot in the door through his journalism.   But as Billy Joel once said "Luck is a word that ill-informed people use to describe what happens when preparation meets opportunity." (Quoted from memory.)

Anyhow, Mr K' success indicates that skiffle - the musical root from which so many other fruitful branches have sprung - is still alive and kicking. It certainly has a following here on Tyneside, where we have an annual skiffle session at the Cumberland Arms in Byker, on the Saturday nearest to Lonnie's birthday. This time, as in previous years, it was standing room only by halfway through the evening.

A fair number of grey heads were visible, but half the people who played and sang along were not born until decades after Rock Island Line first hit the charts.   And they wouldn't let the band get away until we'd done four encores – though that was certainly due to the qualities of the music itself, rather than to our (strictly amateur) delivery of it. (I don't think it had anything to do with some of us being "middle class gits" who do things other than music to earn a living, though the Drummer might choose to disagree.)

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:01 AM

I get very vexed with Al and his prolier than thou version of folk music. It maybe good music, but it ain't folk music. However, he does it well and it is entertaining (but it still ain't folk music) and he deserves respect as amusician and singer songwriter. If I can say that when I really really wish he would do and stick to folk music, I don't think he deserves the mean spirited snipe above, and I'm sure he'd go down well at many folk clubs and folk festivals.


As for Mark Kermode my first question is what name his brother plays under? Is it Mark Bernard?

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:36 AM

strangely enough, I've always seen skiffle as a worthy strand in the fabric that is folkmuisc.

My attitude soured when Roger Brooks died. No radio special for him - ot even on BBC Radio Nottingham - his home town. Never a sing at a huge festival mainstage.

And yet to me he was the soul of grace and beauty as a acoustic guitar player, singer, songwriter and performer. And he gave his life to the attempt

when I say working class - its not a social division I'm talking about. as such. Its the fact that so much media attention is given to those with so little to say artistically and really its only a hobby, like eating out at harvesters and curry houses (they don't even develop a bon viveur's critical faculty) - its not a vocation, or anything they commit their intelligence or concentration to even.....And some poor sods fling their entire life and considerable talents 24/7 into music - but for some reason it availeth them nought.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Ewan Spawned A Monster
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:52 AM

So why use those views to attack Mark Kermode who has a clear love of skiffle music and has - I repeat - been playing it with the Railtown Bottlers long before he became a film critic?

In what way has his longstanding immersion in and promotion of skiffle music hurt anyone's career?

When you launch these bitter attacks it really does no-one, including those musicians you claim to speak for - any favours.

Why not tell us (and by us, I mean your public on this forum who read your posts) about the musicians we're missing out on and why we should check them out... like you did to good effect with the excellent John Kelly. Surely that's of far more help to them than this endless sniping.

Just a thought, well intentioned.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:21 AM

John Kelly isn't going to live for ever, neither is jack hudson.

John is playing at one festival. jack is playing at none at all as far as I know - although he did get to play at Celtic Connections and Ashbourne earlier in the year.

the situation stinks. I'm sorry if you see me as an asshole, but from your remarks I can see that you have no idea what it takes to turn yourself into a John Kelly or Jack Hudson.

Its not something you just fit in after a hard day doing something else.

they say a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. I can't blame you, you live in a world where the market forces are all to cock. But music critics and the like (as FR Leavis said) should know how to isolate quality. they don't. that, simply put, is the situation rubbing sand and vinegar under my foreskin.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:44 AM

Isn't a 'Kermode' a type of portable toilet on wheels? What an unfortunate name!

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 11:16 AM

Kermode is a surname from the Isle of Man.
Ray

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 11:19 AM

Is it a three legged Kermode

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Rasener
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 11:34 AM

Bit like a milking stool.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Ewan Spawned A Monster
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:05 PM

"I'm sorry if you see me as an asshole"

I don't, for what it's worth. Any my little boy really likes the pirate song on your website...

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Lay off a bit
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:17 PM

Kermode's a well-known pundit rather than a celeb-e.g.he appears on late night night BBC arts progs etc discussing films(movies).
I used to think 'twit',what a daft hairstyle-then I saw him with some skiffle gear and everything snapped into place!
Good luck to him.
Incidentally,the yanks had a small humo(u)rous book concerning the construction of what they they call outhouses,it ran into hundreds of prints.That was written by a chap called Kermode IIRC.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:16 PM

AS others have observed, Mark Kermode is a hard-working musician of long standing, and in no way deserves WLD's carping remarks. I would like to think those whinings came from ignorance, not malice. I knew Mark 15/20 years ago( can't remember exactly)when he and I were both gigging at street festivals etc, hard work and low pay(me with the Boat Band, he with the Railtown Bottlers). He's paid his dues, and if he's got a nice slice of publicity, good luck to him. He's earned it.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 02:56 PM

yes my whining came from ignorance, sorry Mark.

as Van the Man said, that was wonderful re-Mark!

Any relation of frank Kermode - he of Encounter magazine fame?

ha! theres one for the teenagers! did anyone else (late 1950's to late 1960's) hone their skills as a whining left wing pseudo intellectual with the lofty tones of Encounter (subsidised as we found out afterwards by the CIA!)

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: GUEST,Ewan Spawned a Monster
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:20 PM

Erm... Frank Kermode is his dad.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:09 PM

His father's ex-wife is Anita Kermode, an American banjo player who created the website giving details of many banjo tunings.
You can find it here.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: marks dad
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 07:08 PM

he is not related to Frank Kermode.

Subject: RE: Mark Kermode on Skiffle
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 06:29 AM

FK's wikipedia entry does not mention his family. So how do we find out who's correct, Guest or EwanSAM?