Folklore: French Influence on English Music

Subject: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 04:00 AM

The title says it all. With the recent talk of regional influences on the folk traditions in England, I wonder how strong French influence was on English music, both thematically and stylistically. Are there any examples of tunes and/or songs derived from French ones?

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:07 AM

Well now.... the Northumbrian pipes clearly have something in common with 18th century French musettes. And conversely, the Bretons have adopted Highland bagpipes, probably as a result of First World War contact. Stylistically, cross pollination at least of dance tunes seems to be recent though- you don't get bourrees in England or Scotland, and the Schottische is decidedly not Scottish. My knowledge of the pre- revival French folk repertoire and the pre- collector age Atlantic Islands repertoire is pretty limited, but as far as I know you don't get stuff like Anet or Boismortier in England. Our aristocrats didn't play at being shepherdesses.

France was of course the major destination of aristocratic and upper- bourgeois Grand Tourists of the 18th century- mainly the super- rich continuing to Italy- and they would have had some servants with them. But they would have been hand- picked trusties who saw themselves as a cut above the common slaveys, and consequently a poor conduit between the demotic cultures.

Hmm. Jack Campin?

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:04 AM

Apart from the considerable periods when we were at war with France, I would have expected some songs and tunes to have cross-pollinated via matey matelot in the other country's ports bars and brothels.

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:19 AM

There are examples of French named tunes in various manuscripts. The Hardy family tune book for example has Garcons du Village which appears elsewhere as Cats in the Village and appears to be a precursor to Dingle Regatta.

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:43 AM

Er, the English language?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 09:45 AM

From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:43 AM

Er, the English language?

yours,

Peter T.


   About half of it anyway. Also, the troubador tradition which laid much of the groundwork for western European secular music has its origins in the Languedoc region of southern France.

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:20 PM

Any song with the word "surrender" in it?

;P

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:34 PM

CC - you aren't think of the Italian influence surely?

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: Monique
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 01:41 AM

Frère Jacques/Brother John and Ah vous dirai-je Maman/Twinkle Twinkle Little Star crossed the border but you wouldn't call that an influence, would you?
Troubadours: the 1st one, Guilhèm IX de Peitieus/Guillaume IX de Poitiers, was duke of Aquitaine (West of Occitania), the most famous, Bernat de Ventadorn, was from Limousin (North-Northwest of Occitania). The movement spread eastwards, so reached Languedoc later.

Subject: RE: Folklore: French Influence on English Music
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 02:35 AM

"Our aristocrats didn't play at being shepherdesses" - don't tell Shakespeare for goddness sake!