Closing Threads

Subject: Closing Threads
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:11 AM

I was the last person to post to the Session Rudness thread before it was closed down.
I am more than a little bit upset with the censor(s)/elf(s) that closed it down because a few responders asked, what happens now if a lot of responders ask top reopen it, do we play the game hat way too? If the thread author asked I wouldn't mind it near as much, was it the author? The thread did turn nasty in some spots, why not just delete or restrict the nasty poster? There were 414 posts before an elf/clone shut it down. That means that a few get to call the shots on closing a thread, while how many others thought that there was plenty to say & add to it. 414 posts in a few days means that it was a hot topic that touched off quite a firestorm. Does that mean every time a hot topic comes up & a few people don't like it, it gets shut down. If you don't like the way thread's going don't post or don't read it, let it die a natural death. If it gets nasty, as it did in a few spots, mostly by only 1 poster who was directing their foulness towards an undeserving poster, shut down the poster or delete their posts. Don't shut down the whole discussion.
As I said in the thread;

Enjoyable-No
Entertaining-No
Interesting-Yes
Educational-Very

I odn't get to go across the pond & I got to see what some folks from over there think of how sessions should be run, how they see the rules of etiquette, the responsibilities of running a session. I never heard of singing up for a session until now, that's a new one to me, interesting. It's was interesting to see how the exchange of adult & youth players interact differently when the level of musicship is upped in comparsion to how it works out over here. Reopen the thread, it was at the very least broadening.

I would like to see the thread reopened & have the nastyness deleted, I believe that closing that thread was a knee jerk reaction. If there's no more to say on the subject, again let it drop off the sceen.

Does one elf/clone get to close a thread down or does a discussion take place among a number of elfs/clone before a clousure happens. I have to say that if Max wants to do it he can do whatever he likes but I think outside of him Dick & Susan would be the only others with that kind of control & in the more than 10 yrs I've been here I've never seen Dick or Susan close anything. So what gives with the scope on the Elf Power?
Inquiring minds (me) want's to know!

Ok, that's one person heard from.

If Joe has a problem with my request he can PM me, otherwise I don't want to hear from any others unless it's in this thread, please.

Barry

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:39 AM

I agree, surely if people don't like the content of a thread they can simply choose to avoid reading it.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:54 AM

Yes, Barry - I'm with you.

I'd vote for a system which aimed to keep threads open by hiding offensive posts, and I'd like to see more yellow cards and maybe a time-out for anyone who's being deliberately or persistently disruptive.

There was an important discussion within all the nonsense. I wasn't so bothered about the age/experience aspect myself, but the thread was throwing a useful light on one of the touchiest issues in folk promotion, which seems to cause more upset than almost anything else (400+ posts for example): How to do sessions to keep the maximum number of people happy.

The careful use of language to avoid potential misunderstandings, briefing session leaders so they know what you've advertised, checking that punters are (mostly) getting what they expected, having effective customer feedback and wash-up systems - these were all underlying the debate, and should have been of real value to any organisers looking in.

And it's always good to have a chance to discuss yet again what these poorly defined folky words mean - in the hope that we are groping towards a consensus which might eventually reduce these problems caused by inconsistent labelling.

Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:14 AM

I think I'd say that everything useful that was going to be said on that thread had been said, and even most of the nastiness seemed to have subsided. Big Mick promptly and handsomely apologised for his un-needed dig at Lizzie (although it was peanuts to some of the other catty remarks). There were earlier times when closing the thread could have been see as necessary intervention, but by the time it happened I don't think it was necessary - although it did no harm.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:15 AM

It seemed to me that the worst of the thread in question was much earlier.........it had calmed down to friendly knockabout and peace (not Peace!) was about to break out.

The last unappetizing post was from the guy who shut it down?

Seems a pity to have gone through the pain of the storming phase without then reaping the benefits to English folk across the generations.

Paul

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Charley O'Neill
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:26 AM

I am the fool who started this fiasco! I did not ask for the thread to be closed and the issue of censorship is a different kettle of fish altogether, but come on , it did get well and truly out of hand. . Would just like to make the following points that many seem to have been missed by many-

1, I am 36 yrs of age. I do not particularly consider myself an OP (old person?) and by the standards of the folk scene, I don't think I'd be generally classed as such

2, For the last time...IT WAS THE ONLY SESSION!!!, there was a lack of other participative players around, starting another session was not an option

3, I had nothing against CAF's style of music, tempo, or indeed age, it was their bad manners, rudeness and unfriendliness that I was speaking about

4, I am not a beginner, but when did years of experience mirror confidence and mindset on a particular day

4, Ultimately, nobody else on here seems to have seen what happened. You can be as sycophantic and clever as you like, but ultimately , I feel that CAF know exactly what they did and the incident that I am referring to. If they do not...well maybe a bit of reflection may be in order


'Oh, but they're only young,
why shouldn't they play fast?
Why are you ageist, they are our future!! and other such paraphrasing , point missing bollocks indeed!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:38 AM

I thought the age issues were quite important, actually. As I pointed out within the thread, the topic of young people in folk is one that comes up constantly. How do we attract them? How do we keep them? The irony, of course, is that when they ARE around in numbers, they get berated for behaving like young people. This is a regular feature of the threads on festivals like Sidmouth and Towersey (especially the campsites) every year: "How dare those inconsiderate young upstarts stay up late being noisy in the area which is designated for staying up late and being noisy? From midnight, they should be tucked up in their beds, with a hot water bottle, like me, to be ready for a 9am ranting workshop."

Lots of folkies don't actually seem to like young people. Maybe they've simply forgotten what it's like to be young, and impetuous, and maybe a little full of yourself. What they REALLY would like to see, it seems, is old people in young people's skins. There are a few of those around in folk, actually, but I wouldn't really want to spend much time with any of them.

When we look at the reasons why young people have apparently deserted folk clubs, I think a lot of your answers really are here.

Before anyone has a go at me for defending bad behaviour, I would remind everyone that very few people who contributed to that thread were actually AT Big Session this year. Some people, who were, commented on how much they'd enjoyed the music, and had found no trouble joining in. I will reiterate that I have seen these guys at many festival sessions, and I can't remember anyone ever having this complaint before. At Towersey last year, for instance, they spent the entire festival in and around the beer tent, playing. Lots of people joined in. The festival PR even used a photo of one of them (the pretty one ;) ) on the front of their festival leaflets. So if they are a bunch of rude, arrogant upstarts, how come no one has noticed till now - except for one guy who got his nose put out of joint?

It was the response to that one complaint that was so interesting, though. Quick as a flash, down comes the mighty wrath of Mudcat. "I wasn't there, I don't have all the facts, but that won't stop me from having an opinion and expressing it." These guys were harrassed and abused by people who have never met them. They were told what they OUGHT to have been doing, and how they OUGHT to behave, by people who not only weren't there to witness their behaviour, but who didn't even know what they'd been asked to to in the first place! One person even accused them of bringing the festival into disrepute, FFS, and actually then posted to say THEY'D TOLD THE OYSTER BAND ON THEM!!! Christ, Folk police or what? This despite the fact that the person who dashed off a fevered e-mail the Oysterband wasn't even at Big Session themselves!

I'm not saying that bad behaviour should not be addressed. But there were a hell of a lot of assumptions being made on that thread. I realise that this is partly to do with the flippant nature of the responses from the "culprits" themselves, but I actually found that quite funny. Why should they be chastened and apologetic when they may well have nothing to apologise for?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:51 AM

I feel that Charley should have put his complaints to the management, not on Mudcat. Maybe you did Charley. If, having done that and not got any satisfaction, then by all means go public.
Likewise I think it would have been better if the organisers had responded with the issue raised by Charley on the thread, not the performers.

I would like to think that people would talk to me first about anything they are unhappy about with Faldingworth Live, rather than start spouting off on Mudcat.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: peregrina
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:52 AM

General discussion of session etiquette seems useful and productive, but I can't see how a forum like this is ever appropriate place for one individual to make allegations of how some specific people treated a specific person on one occasion. That's ad hominem. It was always bound to result in finger-pointing, name-calling and arguments about what really happened-- a trial by mob not present.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:19 AM

I kinda see the point of this thread but I agree that the subject was exhausted.

It's just one of those things... it's not restricted to Charley or CAF and co... We all have at some point in our life at a session made to feel we are not welcome if we were being honest.

I'm assuming Charley, you may have been caught in a badly timed moment where people in the session where in a silly mood and you were in a defensive mood and things got out of hand... I know these guys pretty well and I am sure that if you decide to join in with them again that things will be different.

I am only a year younger than you and very basic on a guitar and very unconfident at singing and these guys really make me feel welcome. I have seen them play with friends (who are almost twice my age) of mine that I know they don't know and I haven't introduced them.

I really can't explain why you had a bad experience with them.

But back to your initial point... I empathise with you... it is really irritating to turn up to an advertised event to have something completely different happening... All I can suggest is to get in touch with the organisers and let them know and hopefully they will apologise and be more careful next year.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:28 AM

There IS one thing Mudcat could do without any major change of policy - and that is to have moderators identified in some way. It's no accident that the police wear uniforms to remind everyone that they do have powers, and that their 'suggestions' do carry extra weight. I've been in and out of here for a few years now and the only Mudcat officials I'm aware of are Joe Offer and (now) Big Mick. If there was an asterisk or something to identify those who had power to close threads, then any tactful remarks they might make might be noted by everyone else. There are probably good reasons why this is not done, but I'd be interested to hear them. Perhaps identification might give their normal posts an unwanted edge - in which case maybe it might be possible for them to have two sign-ins, - one for normal chat and one for official activity. Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:32 AM

Houston Diamond.......maybe you can be quite nice after all!!!!

Nice one, if you're ever in Yorkshire come and visit us at
KFFC , despite Ruth's assertions (and I do I agree with quite a lot of other things she says) that only over 50's go to Folk Clubs.... you'll find a warm welcome. We have from 8 to 80 year olds (I'm somewhere in the middle, but well under 50) playing all sorts of acoustic music and song.

Paul

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:36 AM

"despite Ruth's assertions (and I do I agree with quite a lot of other things she says) that only over 50's go to Folk Clubs.... "

Hi Banjiman,

I realise I was making a generalisation - good on you for the range of ages you attract! But as I'm sure you'll remember from the many folk club threads which have appeared in recent times, your club would seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Melissa
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:37 AM

Charley:
An OP is 'original poster' (or opening post..or something like that)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:39 AM

well... I must admit that for how quick it moved as a thread it would have been more appropriate in the mudchat section of the site... oh well.

Yeah, moderators should be identifiable and accountable, I agree. If there is no real harm in keeping a thread open then leave it till it peters out, but hey, what do I know except 20 years of IRC and other online forum experience ;)

In this forum it would be difficult to stop people considering people generally do not have to be registered to add their point eg. GUEST, somebody! but there should be no problem deleting inappropriate posts especially abusive ones.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:42 AM

It actually got a lot *less* nasty once it got down to specific individuals. The "cool as folk" guys were able to defend themselves in an entertaining way. Whereas generalized complaints about an unnamed Them never lead to anything productive. (And to follow my own advice, I have in mind Al Whittle's gripes about people who perform or present traditional material).

There was an underlying positive aspect to the whole thread. Traditional repertoire is not in any danger of falling into ablivion when people are prepared to brawl over access to a prime spot for playing it. If we end up calling each other grumpy old cunts or bigheaded wee nyaffs (I'm a grumpy old cunt, myself) it's because we're part of the same community and that's how communities work.

Memo to the organizers: it's an idea to set things up so that sessions can form in more than one place. Rivalries are not necessarily the reason, sometimes there are groups who just like doing different stuff, or one session gets too big. I've only been to Leicester once and got the impression you needed to show your Union Jack underpants and BNP membership card to get into a a pub there, but surely some fringe spaces could have been allocated.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:45 AM

Ruth,

We get round quite a few Folk Clubs, and though I wish I could argue with your generalisation, I can't......but just admitting that doesn't help attract younger people does it? All I can say for sure is that our doors are open to all and the mix of ages is pretty good and actually more under 40's are now coming along.

Cheers

Paul

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Betsy at work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:45 AM

Hiya Villain, I'm afraid the "complaints to the management" wouldn't work for me. I couldn't be bothered with the ensuing discussions arguments and opinions.
Immediately let me say - I'm sure it would work for you,
You sound convinced your diplomatic method WOULD work and I admire you for that.
For my part, I'm much the same way with a poor standard meal in a cafe /restaurant ....I can't be bothered complaining , along with the ensuing opinions etc. ,it's all a drain on my energy and emotional resources.
I put the occasion down to a shit experience - I pay for the meal and never go back , and will never give a good recommendation.
Before you start typing - I know my method is the lily-livered way out, and probably doesn't serve my fellow men very well, because the establishment will keep serving the same shite to others, because no one has complained, but, it works for me, as I like to avoid such confrontation, primarily because I have a completely (undesirable) ability to escalate such situations in a very short space of time.
I need to leave such situations to you diplomats!!!
Not to say I wouldn't consider I wouldn't go back to the establishment if I heard favourable reports from people I trust, that the establishment had changed it's ways, an undergone a re-organisation, which, might more suit my taste.
However I realise the world isn't going to change for Charley, or me, but things might change if Organisers take notice of reasonable complaints from people like yourself.
I feel myself going round in circles here ...

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:53 AM

"Memo to the organizers: it's an idea to set things up so that sessions can form in more than one place."

the thing is, because of the type of festival, the lineup, the lack of workshops and participative activity etc, my instinct (I wasn't there this year but have been in previous years) is that there aren't really enough musicians turning up to populate multiple sessions. Otherwise they wouldn't have had to pay these guys to come in and play! :)

My suggestion to Charley from right back at the beginning of the previous thread still stands: why not bring a bunch of mates next time and start your own session?

"I've only been to Leicester once and got the impression you needed to show your Union Jack underpants and BNP membership card to get into a a pub there, but surely some fringe spaces could have been allocated."

Crikey, which bit did you visit?! There are definitely a few pubs on the London Road, 5 minutes from De Montfort Hall, which would lend themselves to being fringe venues, but again, it just doesn't feel like that sort of festival. It is more self-contained. Maybe a session marquee over on the campsite could work...as long as everyone vacated by midnight, of course! ;)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:59 AM

I must admit I was shocked at some harsh comments by people. I am from folk child stock where I can't remember the first time I went to a folk club, festival, session, ceilidh etc because I was still in nappies.

The one thing I notice from the type of person who enjoys folk and embraces it into their life is how super friendly they are and how everyone is their friend.

I love all music, from classical to heavy rock and folk is mostly my biggest heart warming music genre because of all the nice images it conjures...

It is a very English or British trait to not wanting to complain but I am sure that any festival organiser is welcoming to them because they want a festival to work for the people and there is nothing wrong with constructive feedback. Bitching at each other is never constructive.

Diplomacy may not always work but it is a lot nicer to try first :D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:00 AM

my post was the best ,I posted only once,and that was to direct people to the playing of the late great PaulDavis on sound lantern,the message here is succinct,make music while we can, we may be dead tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:00 AM

I thought the age issues were quite important, actually.

I think there was a certain amount of tilting at windmills on both sides: "you ignorant young people!" on one side, "you arrogant old folkers!" on the other. A bit less of either would have calmed things down.

I realise that this is partly to do with the flippant nature of the responses from the "culprits" themselves, but I actually found that quite funny.Why should they be chastened and apologetic when they may well have nothing to apologise for?

Um... because Charley was telling them he was upset with them, basically. Apologising doesn't necessarily mean taking the blame. Three variants:

1. "I'm sorry we offended you"
= "we did something wrong on purpose and I'm sorry about that"

2. "I'm sorry the way we were acting offended you"
= "we may have done something wrong inadvertently and I'll think about that"

3. "I'm sorry if the way we acted offended you"
= "I don't think we did anything wrong, but I can see you're upset and I'm sorry about that"

Facing a complaint like Charley's, I'd expect anyone - and I do mean anyone - to start at 3. and seriously consider working up to 2. or even 1. As I said on the thread that wouldn't die, the best the CAFers offered was "people get offended, shit happens, we're all nice people so let's all forget about it".

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:01 AM

"Maybe a session marquee over on the campsite could work...as long as everyone vacated by midnight, of course! ;)"

hehehe guilty of not owning a watch and too drunk by then to read one ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:05 AM

my post was the best ,I posted only once,and that was to direct people to the playing of the late great PaulDavis on sound lantern,the message here is succinct,make music while we can, we may be dead tomorrow.

I loved that... but I'm a sucker for concertina, big "last nights fun" fan cos of it ;)
I agree... I really cant see me playing a harp yet but when I do I want it to be a good session tune and I hope Paul Davis is entertaining the masses with his now because he was quality :D

Don't I know you Captain Birdseye?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:05 AM

"Um... because Charley was telling them he was upset with them, basically."

By the time any of them appeared on the thread they'd already been tried and convicted by various members - no wonder they were defensive and not necessarily responding appropriately to the original complaint.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:20 AM

I agree Phil but Ruth is also correct... they did seem to be hung, drawn and quartered before they could defend their actions. It's really hard for anyone to apologise when they have been accused so harshly and the incident is not fresh in their minds!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:24 AM

Well, if it's the same crowd that played in the bar at Towersey last year, not only were they splendid, musically, but they even let this arthritic 53 year old tina player join in....!
I felt blessed....!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:25 AM

it was the very same crowd, Ralphie. :)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:27 AM

Betsy
I don't know if walking away is the correct thing to do.
Most organisers are reasonable and wherever possible try to put things right.
I would much rather listen to somebodies complaint on a personal basis and try and put that right, than have them walking away dissatisfied.
If I go into a restaurant and I am not happy with the meal or service, then I go and have a discreet word with the person in charge and I have to say the situation is normally put right without any further problems.
Les

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:27 AM

Be careful... are you talking about the bar on site 1? or the three horseshoes?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:32 AM

Bloody hell this thread is growing very quickly, just like the other.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:33 AM

let's beat the records and do 400 messages in a day, but only nice messages please ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:36 AM

Houston, i know Ralphie and I was there when he was playing in the beer tent, so I assume that's what he means...:)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:44 AM

oh... ok then :) I have a load of great photos from that (check on facebook) :) ... I really liked the pipes player, whathisname?!? Jakob?!?!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Charley O'Neill
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

Listen, I acknowledge the fact that this Cool as folk team were respectfull to other posters!! Fair play to them and get the cecil sharpe gold badges out , but, they WERE damned rude to me and I'm sure they know it and they havent even had the good grace to comment. That is what I'm talking about, no I am not delusional, yes they are good, it is so difficult to get a point understood on here!!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Gulliver
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

There have been hundreds of threads on Mudcat over the years that started off in a similar way to Charley's, relating to something that happened in a pub, or a festival, or folk club, etc. But few have produced such smug, bordering on arrogant, immature (IMHO) and disparaging responses as seen on this thread. I'm in principle against censorship, but I have to admit I wasn't sorry to see this thread closed. Sure, it was calming down towards the end, but that was only after the contribution of more level-headed posters who saw what was going on and commented on it.

Maybe I took the comments a bit too seriously, but I've been happily playing in all kinds of sessions for years and was depressed at the mind-set of some of the posters on this thread (and this includes those involved in organising sessions/festivals). But on the positive side, it did show me the kind of person I never want to get involved with at festivals or sessions.

Don

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

" I really liked the pipes player, whathisname?!? Jakob?!?! "

yes - he's quite mad. A good ceilidh dancer, too.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:57 AM

"Fair play to them and get the cecil sharpe gold badges out , but, they WERE damned rude to me and I'm sure they know it and they havent even had the good grace to comment."

As I understand, they did try to converse and console on the thread but there was no reply.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade - PM
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:57 PM

link to post

But I don't disbelieve you Charley, I actually empathise with you and I am certain that some individuals were displaying bad behaviour. Please calm down because I respect your feeling mate :D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:58 AM

We were at Towersey at one of the beer tent sessions - played a couple of tunes and the response was less than enthusiastic! Some girl even retuned my fiddle when she borrowed it!

I cannot comment on the Big Session issue, but with regard to the sessions at festivals, they seem very different to those I am used to in pubs or at morris events. A lot of the unwritten rules just arent there. Its not a good or a bad thing, just different.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:38 AM

I don't know how it works here but closing a thread is usually reversible and in some places and cases it may be used to provide a cooling off period or possibly to provide a mod with time to discuss a thread with admins without matters getting further out of hand or to spare them from having to make judgments on individual posts or posters.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:42 AM

We could have at least had a verse from Rolling Home though before it closed ;) lol

Something like;

We will leave you our best wishes,
We will leave your rocky shores.
For we're bound to dear Old England,
To return to you no more.

:D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:46 AM

Personal attack removed.

Guests must choose a consistent name and use it consistently. Otherwise their postings may be deleted.

- joe clone -

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:54 AM

Personal attack removed.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:59 AM


Houston ,what are you on about, smug ,cocky troublecausing fool of a man - go away

:( ok then, sorry

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:59 AM

I don't understand why posters get so worked up about replies on threads... We are sitting safely at home/work behind a screen. Aren't we safe there?

I agree if you don't want to get upset about what's being said, don't open the thread. Let's have more free speach.

Sal

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:01 AM

Bye all

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:06 AM

Old Downeast saying, "If you know the dog bites"....

Joe has said time after time that personal attacks will be deleted. We all know that, but if you think the rules don't apply to you, well, you know the dog bites.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:07 AM

Hiya Villain,
I agree that walking away is maybe not the correct thing for YOU to do, but it is certainly the correct thing for ME to do, as I don't have your tact or diplomacy.
I completely accept everything you wrote and that your M.O. is the right way to do things.

Any overall cynicism about complaining, on my part, is largely based on other run-ins I've had, and I seem now to have a mindset, which is broadly based on the following: -
N.B.When reading the following, bear in mind that I AM English....

English (not British) Public Relations "ethics " appear to me, to rely on the Owner / Organiser / Boss firmly defending the status quo (who brought THEM into this discussion) in any situation.

Example:- Take a "bad" glass of beer back to the barman in England.
Stock answer - No one else has complained - Immediate Effect - Complainant isolated - end of story. One Party thinks it has done a good job the other Party feels aggrieved.

Take a bad glass of beer back to the barman anywhere BUT England.
Discuss, and furnish complainant with fresh glass of beer with a chat about how a such a thing could have happened and be avoided in the future occurred. Both Parties feel good.

Moral:- I don't want to be isolated, I want to feel good.   
   
On the censorship issue, some thickies like myself cannot detect deliberate disruptive individuals in the threads, though presumably they have a history of doing so.

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:11 AM

"Example:- Take a "bad" glass of beer back to the barman in England.
Stock answer - No one else has complained - Immediate Effect - Complainant isolated - end of story. One Party thinks it has done a good job the other Party feels aggrieved."

really? I've mostly had the barman simply replace my pint.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:22 AM

THere are so many other factors in the pub situation - how bad the beer is, how bad in comparison to the normal quality of beer the pub provides, how well you know the landlord, the manner in which you complain if you choose to do so. As a barman I would always change a beer if asked, if they cause a fuss and the beer is fine, I would offer something else. If they still cause a fuss then its their problem!

On a random rant, I went for a meal the other night with my girlfriend and 2 friends. The service wasnt amazing but the response by one of my friends made the situation very awkward. Getting a beer topped up that was about a millimetre below the measure line, moaning when the courses were brought out early, triple checking the bill and moaning about price, all made what would have been a reasonable meal into a pretty crap evening!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:29 AM

Before I leave completely... it's always the odd few that seem to spoil it for everyone in all areas of life it seems.

It must seem nice to attack people behind anonymity.

I bid you adieu and have fun.

Sorry if I upset anyone.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:51 AM

"THere are so many other factors in the pub situation"

I am a particular fan of the approach to customer service in the Morris Clown!

Your friend's behaviour reminds me of my dad - he thinks this sort of thing makes him look like a discerning man of the world, when in reality they just make him look like a knobhead.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:52 AM

Houston - I think you're lovely.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:58 AM

The analogy I made was in the hope That Villain succeeds in complaining, when I know it doesn't work when I try.
After all, it was an analogy to the original situation / thread which appears to have got out of hand. I think I have admitted that perhaps I don't know how to complain in the required manner, and even Ruth is charming enough to admit she has "...MOSTLY had the barman simply replace my pint ".
Fair Enough I say, but it's those occasions when they don't replace the pint, which I purposely avoid.
As for (Joe's words)- random rant - I enjoyed reading it and I'm sure many have been through a similar situation, but also, have you noticed when everything goes great on such an occasion, the triple checking the bill / moaning about price, seems to vastly diminish.
We are not buying simply a commodity or Service; we are also purchasing a small degree of feel-good factor, which is supposed to accompany the purchase.

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:04 AM

This is my point entirely.

Houston has been very reasonable and decent on this thread. Ok he was a bit upset on behalf of his friends on the original one, but he's made amends for that here.

Yet a post by an unnamed guest, which appears to be a nasty personal attack, is allowed to stand. It may have been meant as an ironic joke, but Houston has every right to feel affronted. But he just made a sad face and said 'ok then,' and 'bye all.'

I think he may be a recent arrival here, but I'd not blame him if he really did leave - with a very poor impression of Mudcat.

What exactly IS the mods' policy in this sort of situation?

When traffic like that is allowed , it's hardly surprising that a few actually very well-connected and powerful folk people sometimes think it's ok to behave like young offenders here.

And it's hardly surprising that we're all seen by outsiders as... well, you can supply your own descriptions.

A very sad Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:08 AM

I didn't mean to diminish your experience Betsy. I just think that the bad pint in a pub situation is one of the less awkward to deal with. I honestly can't ever remember being disputed if I return a pint and say, "Sorry - I think the barrel may be gone..."

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:09 AM

LOL

I remember a long time ago buying a pint at my works social club. The person who ran the bar was a miserable old toad and didn't always keep the beer in top shape. Anyway the beer was aweful (and I mean aweful), and I asked him politely if he could replace it and he refused. So i raised my voice a little bit higher and he stil refused and blathered on about "now't wrong with that pint". So each time he refused, I raised my voice higher. It was now a competition to see who would win. Anyway whilst he was arguing the toss and nobody else was getting served and the audience was getting bigger, I finally shouted out "OK Dick, you think your beer is so bloody good, then why don't you drink it now" he stuttered and flapped but with so many people around he was in a bit of a predicament. Anyway with only 2 choices, he chose to drink it. I made him drink the lot (to great laughter and cheers from the audience). When he had finished I wished him well and hoped that his time on the toilet in the morning would be pleasant.
He didn't do that on me again. :-)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:10 AM

Ummm... not 'Villain', but 'Villan' - a supporter of Aston Villa football team, which does not necessarily mean he isn't a 'villain'... sorry, Les!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:16 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:26 AM

;o)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:27 AM

Tom and Ruth,

I appreciate your kind words... I was brought up with Herga folk club and am extremely privileged to have been... I have heard some of the greatest singers, musicians and dancers in the country and anyone who knows the club will realise that there are a lot of children from the residents of that club that have become a big influence on the folk scene today.

I felt a little joke would have cheered people up and also the lyrics of a song I know cheers a lot of people up.

I didn't mean to upset anyone, I also didn't realise that being of child folk stock was an insulting thing to be so I was going to encourage my 2 sons to learn about folk but since there is a stigma attached I think I'll delay it until they are adults and then they can make their own mind up.

I will still read the threads but I am not going to state my opinion unless I have to defend any of my friends. Thank you to all the kind people here.

I'm sorry and pleased that Big Mick closed the thread TBH, hearing that people in other countries looked at a festival in England as being a place to avoid really upset me.

I'm proud of the roots in this country and have pride in seeing them continue as where I live in NW London it is becoming very thin on the ground!

Roll on Sidmouth :D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:27 AM

agreed, Tom
the problem on this forum I think is this,that certain people get away with personal abuse,depending on who they are, who they know and who they are attacking,
someone called Jeri,called me an egotistical twat,when Icomplained to Joe Offer,he did nothing.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:28 AM

Ummm... not 'Villain', but 'Villan' - a supporter of Aston Villa football team, which does not necessarily mean he isn't a 'villain'... sorry, Les!!

I'm an Arsenal fan and I beg to differ ;p lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:30 AM

That was a joke BTW b4 the strange crew decide to chastise again!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:37 AM

Good Grief! Houston. Are you still here?

PS Has the tuba player learnt a new tune yet?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM

Sorry Snail... am just leaving...

lol about the tuba player, never liked the way he pronounced glass or grass anyway ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:52 AM

Well Housten_Diamond, I'm gunner mek sure youw get walloped when the Villans play ya :-)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:57 AM

really? I've mostly had the barman simply replace my pint. - Ruth Archer.

You probably frightened the kecks off them, Ruth. I know you do most people here...

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:57 AM

I dunno... the gooners have a huge arsenal of players that can run rings around the brummy back 4 ;p lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:14 AM

"You probably frightened the kecks off them, Ruth. I know you do most people here... "

I know i have a strong personality and equally strong opinions, but i am very passionate about folk and the tradition. I'm not afraid of heated debate. I also know that I've made many friends through Mudcat, and have met up with them at lots of events. None of them seemed particularly scared, Paul. I also get lots of PMs from people who are personally afraid to stick their heads above the parapet, but saying to me, "I'm really glad you said that..."

So how about just speaking for yourself, Paul?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM

I think those of us who are working hard to promote folk music to the general public need to remember that places like mudcat are one of our few shop windows. There's nothing wrong with a heated debate as long as manners prevail and people try to address issues not personalities. What we see too often is not so much a heated debate as playground 'wuzz-fight.'

And this does our cause very little good, unfortunately.

Surely no-one should ever be afraid to stick his head over the parapet in the first place?

In fact, why is there even a parapet?

Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:58 AM

or maybe not that interested in mudslinging? or perhaps working?

Guest, are you a little ashamed hence being anon?

Subject: RE: Closing Time
From: GUEST,Phil at work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:00 AM

Ah, sour beer - the memories...

Years ago, I was in a pub in Manchester which shall remain nameless, and saw a sign up saying the guest beer was half price. Naturally I went for it (it was a beer I liked, which was a bonus). I got it back to my table and... hmm. Bit on the flat side... bit on the sour side... actually a lot on the sour side... Actually who am I kidding, this beer's gone.

So I took it back to the bar and told the pimply youth who was minding the pumps that the beer was off. "Yes," he said, "that's why we reduced it."

True story.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:03 AM

hehehe... that sounds so much like it should be a monty python sketch Phil lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:08 AM

You tell me, Tom. What I was trying to say is that, although some people may shy away from putting themselves in the middle of a heated debate, they appreciate someone saying what they themselves were thinking.

"Issues not personalities" is fine - and if Lizzie had not proudly proclaimed that she'd gone to the Oysterband to tell on the "cool as folk brigade", I would have continued to ignore her(as I have been doing for weeks, though I knew she was here - live and let live and all that).

Going to the Oysterband was completely out of order. She was not even there, how the hell does she know what really happened? And yes, these lads are friends of mine, I got them the Big Session gig, FFS.

So I snapped.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Phil J
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:28 AM

Well please don't get them any more 'gigs' Ruth -More trouble than they are worth. Are the folker wannabes dare I say it er...reflecting now, or per chance, too ashamed, or lost for words to respond hmm....

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:34 AM

Phil - Here's a thread for you to check out.

Please check

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:05 PM

Ruth's only scary to some folk, because, she knows what she's talking about. Keep scaring'em! :-D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Polite Guest
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:06 PM

RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer - PM
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:08 AM

You tell me, Tom. What I was trying to say is that, although some people may shy away from putting themselves in the middle of a heated debate, they appreciate someone saying what they themselves were thinking.

"Issues not personalities" is fine - and if Lizzie had not proudly proclaimed that she'd gone to the Oysterband to tell on the "cool as folk brigade", I would have continued to ignore her(as I have been doing for weeks, though I knew she was here - live and let live and all that).

Going to the Oysterband was completely out of order. She was not even there, how the hell does she know what really happened? And yes, these lads are friends of mine, I got them the Big Session gig, FFS.

So I snapped. <<<<<<<<





I humbly apologise Ruth, I had *no* idea I was responsible for your abusive posts about me, but now....now I can see it most clearly.

I had, quite wrongly now I realise, from your learned experience above, thought that the Oysterband should know about that thread, as *their* festival was being written about in a bad light.

I'd assumed, as it's a new festival, relatively that is, that they would appreciate reading the thread, keeping an eye on it etc. and who knows, may well benefit by next year's session being very different.

However, stupidly, I see this was entirely wrong. I realise this is purely because I am a mere humble, dim, dull, lover of folk music and not a festival organiser, such as your esteemed self.

I would however, also have pointed out this same fact to Sidmouth, if it had been about them, although I now no longer am interested in Sidmouth.

Next time I choose to do something, I will be sure to ask your learned advice first, for I realise that without you the English folk world would not exist.

My humble apologies to The Oysterband, a band whose music I love and adore, a band for whom I have the utmost respect and a band who treat their fans with consideration and respect, thus in turn, receiving much love back from them.

I'm sure they'll now remove me from their front page, insert luffbra fesitval and even delete me completely perhaps, or have me removed altogether from myspace for daring to do something without your permission.

Once again, I humbly apologise for apparently *making* you write such insulting, humiliating and vitriolic posts about me. I am sure you are filled with a deep regret for having to have revealed 'what lies beneath' the face of the sunny festival organiser.

If you would like to tell me how you knew I was not there, and if so, why I was not there, I'd be most interested to hear, for again, I'm sure I have much to learn, about myself, about the Oysterband, about the way to behave, about harrassment and abuse.

Thanking you, in anticipation.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Polite Guest
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:22 PM

From Richard:

>>Big Mick promptly and handsomely apologised for his un-needed dig at Lizzie (although it was peanuts to some of the other catty remarks).<<

And I have fully accepted Mick's gracious and heartfelt apology.

Thank you Mick. ((xx))

Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:31 PM

and as Mudcat descends into the nightmare that is Lizzieworld again (with WAV as a supporting player), I find I have pressing engagements elsewhere. Enjoy playing in the kitty litter.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:33 PM

Depends on the tenor of the Guest Post I suppose.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Silas
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:35 PM

I think it is the anon guests posts that are deleted.

There seem to be two lizzies posting here - are they one and the same person?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:35 PM

And I have fully accepted Mick's gracious and heartfelt apology.

So Polite Guest really is Lizzie Cornish! Gosh! Well I never! I thought it was just a vicious rumour that Ruth was putting about.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Zen
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:44 PM

Since this thread and some similar ones do not appear to fit comfortably into either "Music" or "BS/Non-music" perhaps a third category "Soap Operas" could be created. There are many candidates available to populate same.

Zen

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:47 PM

WAVS Poetry,he is a latter day Mcgonagle,always good for a chuckle.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Ho
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:50 PM

"I humbly apologise Ruth, I had *no* idea I was responsible for your abusive posts about me, but now....now I can see it most clearly".

The only person responsible for Ruth's abusive posts about you and everyone else with whom she disagrees is her own appalling lack of manners.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:54 PM

oh god, Lizzie - you're not making up new Guest identities to agree with yourself again, are you?

She's definitely back. Have fun everyone.

Peace out.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Silas
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:01 PM

Where is Diane?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:03 PM

Actually, Ruth, that was me. Not sure what went wrong since my cookie seems to be intact.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:03 PM

No. That was me. I was making a point about guest posters. Since I have no 'like' for Snail, I figured that was a good post to do it with. He likes cheap shots. He got one back.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Trev
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:04 PM

Perhaps as this thread seems to be morphing into a rematch of the previous one people might understanbd why the original got shut down.

Personally, I'm enjoying all the bitchiness... as I'm not one of the people it's aimed at ;D

Better than Eastenders.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:04 PM

Ah no, It wasn't. Getting confused by virtually identical copies of my posts.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:05 PM

No. That wasn't you. That was me quoting your cheap shot at Lizzie. Just seeing how you like it.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:06 PM

Read the word, quoting.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail - PM
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:35 PM

And I have fully accepted Mick's gracious and heartfelt apology.

So Polite Guest really is Lizzie Cornish! Gosh! Well I never! I thought it was just a vicious rumour that Ruth was putting about.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,"cool as folk" brigade
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:06 PM

Charley. "but, they WERE damned rude to me and I'm sure they know it and they havent even had the good grace to comment"

- We have no idea who you are. Maybe we just didnt hear you when you tried to exchange plesantries. Also the pulling of faces usually happens whilst drinking scrumpy, either that or its us comunicating without making noise. So probabilly not taking the piss out of you.

There's your comment. now stop going on about it. Next time you see me come over and wave a flag and i'll say hello. I don't try to ignore people and anyone who knows me will vouch that i'll talk to anyone and being northern i'll talk for hours. Like i said, we prbabilly didn't notice you speak?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:07 PM

Guest Trev say, "Perhaps as this thread seems to be morphing into a rematch of the previous one"

It's being to resemble Doctor Who, regenerating again and again and again and.....

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:13 PM

No, tha can't be right for two reasons. First the new doctor does not resemble the old one, and second, all time lords have two hearts whereas many participants on this thread seem to haev none.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Trev
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:14 PM

True, it's like a tardis... bigger on inside than the outside.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:14 PM

http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=3527&Path=PaulDavis.mp3

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:14 PM

Oh well, just a thought!

no more curried eggs for me! :-D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:53 PM

"Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Phil J - PM
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:28 AM

Well please don't get them any more 'gigs' Ruth -More trouble than they are worth. Are the folker wannabes dare I say it er...reflecting now, or per chance, too ashamed, or lost for words to respond hmm...."

This really isn't necessary and you are only making yourself look bad!

Phil, people have lives outside this thread. If you give people a chance they may surprise you which by the sounds of things isn't hard considering you seem to hold them in such a low respect.

You you cannot tell me that you know the situation honestly and you have judged, hung, drawn and quartered them before you even know them. I have only known Ruth since yesterday and I trust her judgement over yours already because it appears she can see outside the box. She encourages the younger generation to progress plus as I said before, it's the minority that spoil it for the rest of us. between 5 and 15 in a session and one complaint that doesn't sound like a reason to stop them coming back to me.

I have studied hard for years computers and if you so wish Phil I can make up a statistical analysis of the negatives and positives because I feel that your emotions are clouding your judgement of these individuals.

I've had enough of this pettiness and back stabbing with added procrastination, this thread is about how threads close without a general vote or without knowing who the true administrators are!!!

I'm off because we can't seem to agree!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:08 PM

Another question is "Does anyone know who YOU are."

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:11 PM

someone said "Do Timelords have 2 hearts? That I didn't know. Don't Vulcans also have 2 hearts?
It's where Star Trek nicked the idea from I think.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,"cool as folk" brigade
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:13 PM

sorry, post about irene was me. forgot to fill in the field

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:14 PM

does anyone know who folk Irene is?

I think you're confusing two separate songs - it's Goodnight Irene. And there's another song about someone called Alice.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:20 PM

She had a restaurant I believe.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: irishenglish
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:22 PM

And she was "Willin" (Little Feat)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:26 PM

To understand some of Peace's hostility, take a look at the Celebrate 'Folk' thread. It will also give you some insight into Polite Guest. I leave people to make their own judgements.

What Peace may not realise is that Lizzie Cornish was banned from Mudcat for a variety of offences including posting under multiple identities. Since then, she has tried to sneak back in under a variety of different disguises. Ruth Archer has a talent for sniffing her out and tipped me off.

I was unsure at first as Polite Guest seemed relatively coherent and, well, polite. As time has passed, the false beard and sunglasses have slipped away, the writing style has re-asserted itself and she has made no attempt to pretend not to be Lizzie.

Sorry I didn't reply to your PM the other day, Peace. Just a matter of policy not to respond to offensive messages.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Polite Guest
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:36 PM

Dear Snail,

In the Celebrate Folk thread, you will find an apology that will take your breath away. It was made by the man who took a swipe, (wrongly, as he now openly admits) to Peace.

His guts and determination to ensure that no harm was caused to anyone on that thread, and his humility speaks for the man in HUGE amounts.

You however, despite leaping gleefully on what you thought was a bandwagon of hatred, have chosen NOT to apolgise, as SB has done, so profusely.

Peace graciously accepted his apology and made him feel very comfortable about things, as did we all, something well worth celebrating!

Yet now, here once more you sit, pouring out scorn and hatred.

Soldier Boy has much to teach you.

I suggest, politely, that you read his wonderful words and learn from them, and then, perhaps show the same amount of guts and humility as he has shown, and also apologise to those about whom you have made rude comments.

Sadly, I doubt this happen, although I hope you choose to prove me wrong.

You can tell a great deal about a man by the friends he chooses and how he behaves when he is proved wrong.

Thank you

I look foward to your apology.

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Hon. Sec
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:44 PM

Cheer Up

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:46 PM

The message offensive? I said you took a cheap shot and you should put it where the sun don't shine.

Ah, hell. Let me rephrase my personal message to you.

Go shag yourself.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:50 PM

I think that's English for 'get fucked' Snail.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:54 PM

You still doin' electrics at festivals CAF?

Are you really sure you want to make it all safe ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:57 PM

Anyone hear the jackboots?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:03 PM

cheer up please?!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:05 PM

That's sure to raise at least a smile, HD :-D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,"cool as folk" brigade
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:46 PM

I am indeed still sparking. problem is how can i be sure i electricute the correct folike??? hows about i get them all. that way all this mudcat nonesense will stop. Been using it for 3 days and i hate the world. Why cant you all spend all day playing music rather than complaining and bitching about it. just a suggestion like....?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Def Shepard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:49 PM

And a fine suggestion it is CAF, less whining more playing, and a good time will be had by all, with a bit of luck.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:59 PM

It's always that way. No one fires first and it's a guarantee no one will fire second.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:08 PM

CAF... that's easy... it'll be the one trying to overload the circuit ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,"cool as folk" brigade
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:34 PM

so your saying its angry folkies who plug 4 microwaves in at a time on a 16a spur. cos if it is theyre daays are numbered.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:21 PM

well... not angry ones but ones that aren't playing with a full set of strings on their guitar or should I say they are missing the rosin for their bow etc. for want of a better analogy ;)

---

Another flame war. ~Muderator