Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Deeps
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:05 PM

The modern cittern boom really took off north of the border, perhaps we should call it the Scottish cittern.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:43 PM

"It's good that we all have our own opinions, just so long as we don't try to inflict them on other people"

Damn; looks like the end of mudcats, then! Errr, just my opinion (but listen to me, damn you, you know I'm right)!:)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:37 PM

A wonderful band are Isambarde, from Coventry (we won't hold that against them though!) in case anyone didn't know. Their website seems to be down at the moment, though that could be my computer acting out. From what I've read on Walkaboutsverse's threads, he probably wouldn't like them, there doesn't seem to be a cittern in sight!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:31 PM

Ah, welcome to WAV's world duelingbouzoukis! BTW, I just added Isambarde to my myspace-great stuff! The last WAV thread I just resorted to Monty Python quotes out of pure desire to have a laugh!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:28 PM

Become?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:27 PM

duelling, it's just come to my attention that every thread that walkaboutsverse starts ends up the same way, but it is good for a bit of laugh. I was wondering what Flanders and Swann would make of it all. Oh it was on a Monday morning that verse maker came to call...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:24 PM

This thread's become farcical.

That's not a criticism by the way. I always like a good laugh!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:16 PM

Here's WAV trying that. "Oh please Mr. or Mrs. Festival organizer, please have an English Country Dancing festival with only cittern players who all have an English Folk Degree and who only garden native English plants and sing in top line melody only, providing they aren't women tennis players because women in my opinion are better suited to table tennis." In case you don't believe me folks, those are all points from WAV himself. I don't believe in ANY such exclusion!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:10 PM

The only one who seems to be moaning about 'society's loss of culture' is you. Personally I think your statement is a completely load of bollocks, and as Zen has suggested, get in touch with the BBC and all the private broadcasters and make your opinions known to them. I mean is that so hard?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:04 PM

I have tried in several ways, Zen, because, HS, as I've said in poem #209, when people lose their own culture, society suffers.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Zen
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:44 PM

English folk gets very little airplay in England - especially compared with American rock and pop.

So why don't you lobby the broadcasters directly instead of expounding your views time after time in thread after thread here?

Zen

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:40 PM

It seems to me that the listeners prefer to listen to rock 'n roll and pop music, that's their choice, and it's not your place to tell people what they should or should not be listening to.

as to your remark, English folk gets very little airplay in England - especially compared to American rock and pop, my reply is simply ;so what?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:32 PM

And, as I've said before Aeola, English folk gets very little airplay in England - especially compared with American rock and pop.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: GUEST,aeola
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:59 PM

It's good that we all have our own opinions, just so long as we don't try to inflict them on other people. I,ve said it before and I repeat' music for folk ' it encompasses all, and there is room for all.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:41 PM

And quoting thus, "BUT still question what is best FROM NOW ON" I have an answer to this, but being too much of a decent human being I won't provide the answer. As for the rest, Walkaboutsverse, I simply don't have clue what you're on about. now Oswald Moseley, he was a kissing cousin to Enoch Powell, and we all know what Powell was about.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: mandotim
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:17 PM

I was out in the city last night. In the course of the evening I got talking to a very pleasant group of young people who were amusing themselves by making up lyrics about the council estate where they live. All of them were English, born and bred, and had lived in the area all their lives. (I was rude enough to ask). They were singing the lyrics to a recognisable tune, with rhythm provided by another young man who was producing drum sounds using voice only. Tell me WAV; was this English folk music?
Incidentally; your poetry, in my humble opinion, is technically incompetent, soulless drivel. If you must write it, I can see a rationale for preserving it in some way for future generations; literary tastes may have declined enough by then for it to border on acceptable, but please stop inflicting it on the current users of this list.
I've just thought; you're not a Vogon, are you?
Tim

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:13 PM

Yes he was Captain!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:09 PM

wasnt Roderick Spode based on Oswald Mosley?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:00 PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. WAV is the living embodiment of the Roderick Spode character from Jeeves and Wooster. All he has to do to fulfill that is to recommend that certain crops and industries should be designated to particular counties and we will have a living, breathing Roderick Spode amongst us.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:57 PM

I seem to remember Glastonbury being called a Folk Festival and always assumed that appellation was coming from the organisers but maybe it was just "people" calling it that. But I don't think so.

It is a music festival. Like Weston Park, Isle of White, Pheonix, Knebworth etc. To appeal to 150,000 people it can't be or call itself a folk event. The public would not decend in such volumes.

And of course there are festivals that want to tap into the folksie feel and were folk festivals but now are too big to carry only folk performers like Trowbridge Village Pump Festival. And then there is Cambridge which is a Folk Festival in name but mutterings I hear give a lie to the name.

Then there are upstarts that want to out-do Cambridge. They won't be Folk in anything but name either, assumung they can get there without insulting everyone who would support them almost that far.

The reason there are so many small folk festivals around is because there is the support, and when the credit crunch, come petrol hike, come negative, come unemplyment equity bites --- the bigger the arrogance, the bigger the losses.

Even Glastonbury will have to consider the budget. Who as far as I can ascertain add to the local economy by their deliberate methodology.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:56 PM

tell us, WAV - do YOU think it is? That will be a good indicator of your level of self-delusion...

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:27 PM

To the Hon. Sec.: I guess I may never be the Glastonbury bard, then!; but pray tell me - do you think it is the real trad. Somerset farmer who posted above?!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:25 PM

I've just finished sampling,Walkaboutsverse's verse, I'm still alive, as you can see and wondering am why oh why must he create a sequel, it rather reminds me of sequels and prequels to horrendous Hollywood films.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:18 PM

George: I think you'll find that's a "uslurper".

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:13 PM

Re: "WAV, congratulations, you've actually managed to start a thread without "English" in the title.....oh no, I'm wrong, silly me" (Banjiman)...there once was a, now dead (in it's 900s), thread called "Walkaboutsverse", and now is a re-birth thread (way down in BS) called "The Weekly Walkabout".

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 12:05 PM

I suppose the modern cittern could be said to be an English instrument as it originated in England - or even a Northumbrian instrument. Brilliant for playing British folk music. Is it used elsewhere in the world?

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Muswell Hillbilly
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:59 AM

RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...

No thank you, but THANK YOU for your interest in this matter.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:59 AM

On a less serious note, WAV, yes I have played an C17th cittern, not one of the Stefan Sobell type-ones. To be honest, I can see why they're not played that much any more. They have a sweet sound but you're very limited in what you can play and they're very quiet. They certainly wouldn't replace a guitar, bouzouki or even mandolin for song accompaniment.

Instruments evolve to meet the needs of players. As music has become more diverse and complicated, so instruments have changed. It's called progress.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:56 AM

And reliable too, I meant to say!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:54 AM

Boy, that wikipedia is a great source for things isn't it WAV, oops I mean duelingbouzoukis!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:53 AM

'Usurper' from wikipedia.


U.U. Surper - (1908-1991). Russian-American science fiction writer. Born in Bumkrak, near Leningrad he graduated from Leningrad University in 1927 with a first-class degree in phlogiston chemistry. Imprisoned by Stalin 1928-29 he wrote his first novel 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Beetroots?' swiftly followed by its sequel 'No'. Was released on condition that he emigrate to United States on spying mission to find out if rumours were true that Herbert Hoover was in fact one of those vacuum cleaners that have a smiley face on. Was detained at customs for misreading Russian-English phrasebook and declaring himself to be fifteen gallons of bourbon. While in prison awaiting trial for impersonating a banned substance, wrote first book in English entitled 'I Rupert' about an android bear who wears checked trousers and a scarf. Released following repeal of Prohibition which allowed him to be sold to consenting adults. Became US citizen 1939 and went on to write numerous controversial works including the explicit 'Last Bongo in Powys' which told the sleazy tale of an endangered antelope in Mid-Wales and 'Straggler in a String Band', about a Martian who comes to earth to spread enlightenment, but ends up as a banjo player (or 'abject failure' as they are referred to in the book). Died of asphyxiation 19th July 1991, having been accidentally buried 18th July 1991.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:46 AM

Sorry to disappoint you, WAV, but it's the modern version of the cittern that I play, not the C17th one. I think its derivation has been discussed at length and it originates somewhere near you - thanks to Mr Sobell.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:41 AM

I must be the sort of bastard WAV really hates . . .

English father, Welsh mother, plays an Irish Bouzouki to the Irish trad music I love so much. I also love English singing like the Watersons and the Coppers but as they include harmonies I should think it only adds to my heresy.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Banjiman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:36 AM

irishenglish, you have the right idea here......I could go back and re-quote many of my own posts on WAVs ridiculous threads. Can't really be arsed though.

duellingbouzoukis, you might want to stop trying to be rational in response to WAVs deranged ramblings.....we've all tried it and it doesn't work....... or maybe it's only fair that you have a go!

WAV, congratulations, you've actually managed to start a thread without "English" in the title.....oh no, I'm wrong, silly me.

Paul

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:29 AM

Told you Chris! WAV-let the man play the damn instrument he's been playing for years and years without your two cents thrown in. See above lengthy quote from me regarding your misguided notions.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:27 AM

"that's another weird word, "usurper". It sounds like something involving a spoon."

As in singing for usurper?

I wanted to play the buzourk...borzzuk...bourzo....but had to settle for something I could spell - the siterrn.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:23 AM

I'm glad you're playing English folk music, Chris...but, yes, indeed, I would like you and other English string players to give the Englsih cittern a go...apparently, as said on that other thread, they were very common in the barber-shops and taverns of 17th century England, before being superseded by the guitar, etc. Have you ever had the chance to play one? (I noticed Theleveller, above, does, via his myspace; and I've seen Jez Lowe accompany some of his verses with one.)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:17 AM

In the 50s and 60s, as you'll know, Chris, there was a much bigger percentage of English who did, indeed, prefer the practise/performance of English folk to American pop/rock - we need to go back to there.....

WAV you talk bollocks on here most of the time - but that is a particularly good example of the genre.

Now if you truly believe what you say - instead of just making it up as you go along - but I am happy to give you a chance to provbe me wrong. What are the percentages? Start with the fifties.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:15 AM

(going off at a tangent) - that's another weird word, "usurper". It sounds like something involving a spoon.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:14 AM

Hand me that bouzouki, Chris, you usurper, or I will hit you with my bobble-shoe!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:08 AM

Be careful duelingbouzouki, WAV's gonna challenge you not on that, but the fact that you are playing bouzouki and not a cittern!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:07 AM

By the way, irishenglish, thanks for your kind words!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 11:06 AM

'I should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle.... you're putting words in my mouth'. I was exaggerating for comedic effect, but okay, it's a fair cop. My apologies.

However, given my ethnic/cultural background, where do you stand on me playing English and not Irish folk music? Actually, I've been known to play both, but I'm far more comfortable with playing English stuff. Not because of any ancestral hang-ups. It's just that I think I'm better at it!


(Now if I can just work out what I mean by 'English folk music' then I'm laughing!)

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:56 AM

WAV-you were warned, so here's my post to you from another of your threads-"

Oh just stop it WAV. Seriously. You lose these discussions time and time and time again. You yourself, in your head think you're being so witty and above it all. You've been dismissed by musicians, scholars, and people such as myself who have been listening to this music for years longer than yourself. You've got nothing. Just quotes from what you deem is your life's work. You don't listen. You don't choose to debate rationally, sociologically, historically, and on and on. I've said it before-in your mind, its your way or no way. All this junk about top line melody, recorders probably not even made in England, keyboards that are probably made in Japan, morris dancing cricket and tennis balls, idiotic concepts of repatriating people to the closest safe nation, gardening only native English plants. Its self promotion of the worst sort. You use this forum as a barren ground for your own musings, instead of as a place of education, discourse, or even humour. I know more about many genres of music than you could ever hope to know. You know why? I listen. I find out where this came from, and where that came from. I don't place ridiculous notions of music being something that is limited as if it were a box, preserved in time, never allowed to change. Your concepts for English music are without any merit whatsoever. You seek to constantly critique the very thing you profess to love. Your political notions are simplistic and unrealistic. Your prose offers little in the way of contemplation. Your continued obfuscation on threads that you are the original poster of is, lets be blunt here-annoying. You are preaching to a choir of people who wish you would go back on walkabout somewhere for a couple of years. You post topics on mudcat that are on your website. But you post them not in a -Hey guys, be brutally frank here, how do you like this sort of way, but rather in a I'm an intellectual of the highest degree, therefore, bow down before my life's work sort of way. WAV-your thinking is nothing. Learn to discuss, learn to debate, learn to learn. Learn to do these things that most of us learned a long time ago. "


By the way duelingbouzoukis, great post, exactly what I was thinking regarding the distillation of music.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:54 AM

You're putting words in my mouth there, Chris - I do love THE WORLD being diverse (major in anthropology; travel through about 40 countries); and I DON'T think you "should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle". We can accept that there has been heaps of conquest and immigration over the centuries BUT still question what is best FROM NOW ON.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:54 AM

frankly ,if they asked me to play at Glastonbury,I would tell them to F Off.,what an awful festival. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM

"Open your ears, man, and let your mind follow!" (Ewan) - I have been doing so to the pop/rock music at Glastonbury, via the Beeb; and, frankly, have been fooled by the accents of some: i.e., I've assumed they were American from accent/style, before hearing them speak in English accents. And, as I say, I have far more respect for English folk who are good at their OWN good culture.

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Chris Green
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM

Wikipedia?! Since when has that been a reliable source of information?

However, I'll play along. So we'll agree that rock is, originally at least, an American genre, by which we mean that the first examples can found in the United States. However, it grew out of blues and folk music. So rock music is originally African and European in origin. Kind of like a sizeable chunk of the population of the United States really. And a sizeable chunk of the population of our own Fair Albion. So we return to square one.

WAV - everything and everyone comes from somewhere else, if you go back far enough. I was born and brought up in England and I love English folk music. I've spent a large portion of my life playing it. Once a week (for I am a lucky bugger!) I even get paid by my LEA to go into a different primary school, play some trad English folk music for the kids and SHOW them how great it is!

However, my mother is Irish. My father wasn't, but his mother was. According to you, I should therefore only play Irish folk music. Indeed, according to you, I shouldn't even really be here at all. I should emigrate back to the Emerald Isle (a place that to my shame I've never even visited!) and spend my days dancing jigs with pigs, beating my colleen over the head with a shillaleagh and indulging in sundry other such traditional practices, for the delight of visitors such as yourself, who embrace diversity with open arms as long it's not in their backyard.

Sorry if this all sounds a little cutting, but to be honest, having read a few of the threads you've started, I'm quite pissed off. I think you mean well, and I honestly don't think you can see how half-baked and bloody offensive your 'ideas' are. If you really love English folk music, and really want other people to love it more, why don't you try letting it speak for itself? It's a far more persuasive advocate than you are.

Chris

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:33 AM

WAVQUOTE: I, myself, have far more respect for English folk who are good at their OWN good culture

Dunno about you, matey, but the Beatles and the rest of 'em are definitely part of my culture!

Subject: RE: Glastonbury English Folk Festival?...
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 10:24 AM

Just a suggestion for our misg....er...misinf...um....misun....no, what's the word? Ah yes! Irrelevent!

WAV-I'm going to cut and paste all my posts from your previous "English" threads, because they have the same points and the same relevance to everything you bring up on here. At this point, its almost not worthy to tax my brain to come up with answers to your ridiculous notions.

BTW, Bastard son, Pickering sounds great, but alas, I am in New York.