BS: DNA database

Subject: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Joy Bringer
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:14 AM

There are four million DNA samples on this country's database.
The whole population and every UK visitor should be added to the national DNA database. This would reduce crime, clear up unsolved cases and make detection and prosecution easier.

The only people who seem to disagree are those who must have something to hide !

The DNA database which is now 12 years old, grows by 30,000 samples a month taken from suspects or recovered from crime scenes. It also means that a great many people who are walking the streets and whose DNA would show them guilty of crimes, so they go free.

The database had helped police solve as many as 20,000 crimes a year, remember that before you bang your drum.

I have nothing to be afraid of, so I would support this idea which is supported by many senior judges in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 05:21 AM

Shouldn't everyone get finger printed as well?

Should there be a dental record database too?

How about eavesdropping on telephone calls and Emails?

If you've got nothing to hide, why not?

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 05:32 AM

When any pretense of democracy has been abandoned, all these tools will be used to round up everyone in Mudcat (with the exception of Teribus) and exterminate them.
I was going to add BB in with Teribus, but he made a joke on another thread, proving that he has a rudimentary sense of humour....so he's for the high jump as well!
Doug might also be spared but I doubt if the "Uberclass" will think him worth the bother.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:23 AM

Is there no end to the talents (?) Joy Bringer can grace the 'Cat with ?

Monday, a dietician ; prior to that a christian fundamentalist, and now a forensic sacientist, forsooth !

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:45 AM

A proposal was made recently to start up a Redneck database, but it did not work out. The DNA was all the same, and there were no dental records.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:01 AM

Not only that MarkS, but the collectors "disappeared." I guess they looked too much like revenooers.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:15 AM

JB, you're a real piece of work.

You equate privacy with secrecy, when they are very different.

You presume guilt in a society predicated on the presumption of innocence.

You gladly throw away your own rights to privacy and then insist everyone do the same because of they don't they must have something to hide.

Your are the bosom friend of Big Brother and the cheerleader of a fascist trend.

A

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Bert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:19 AM

Hey Mark, don't be so down on Rednecks. After all they did invent the toothbrush.

If anyone else had invented it they would have called it a teethbrush.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Fat Lorenzo
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:25 AM

I seem to recall this is how Martin Gibson got his start.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:31 AM

Lorenzo, you are a wise man.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:46 AM

If a member of my family were murdered... and the only way of tracing the perpetrator was through a National database of DNA..... I guess I could live with that. If my car were stolen and the only way etc etc ... I could live with that. If my house was broken into and everything stolen and the only way... I guess I could live with that.    Yes I could live with a National database for DNA.... Please forgive my possible ignorance in observation but aren't Big Brothers supposed to look out for you and also keep you from temptation???? I can live with that too!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Joy Bringer
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 10:50 AM

Well said Georgiansilver. Isn't it so funny how the site liberals and mugs chasing a good cause are either silent or troll calling (boring boring boring) regarding this thread.

Why in God's name would any of you worry about being on a DNA database or police or government being able to read your emails or listen to your telephone calls if so required? I have never committed a crime, never harmed anyone and never posed a thread to society so yes I would welcome it.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:05 AM

If it were all as legitimate as you say, then there would be no problem. But one only needs to read transcripts from the Nixon years, or any primer on political history, to know that the powerful will always corrupt the most legitimate uses. Once again I find myself wondering if the basis of the American culture and the principles on which it is founded, don't lead to profound differences with our British and European cousins on these matters.

DNA testing is a powerful tool, used appropriately. But it's use must be rigidly controlled to prevent misuse by overzealous "patriots", the military industrial complex, and corporate profit interests.

Solving crime is fine, in fact desirable. That is as long as "crime" is clearly defined, and the usage of potentially invasive and intrusive techology closely monitored and scrutinized for protection of our Constitutional Rights and personal liberty.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:08 AM

Isn't starting this thread 'posing a thread to society'?

Also, repeatedly calling homosexuals sick could be seen as harmful to some people?

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:24 AM

Joy Bringer

How big is the file that Special Branch holds on you ?

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:29 AM

I donno Mick. I'm starting to warm to the idea. Look what JB and GS are talking about; preemptive identification of the innocent IN CASE they commit a crime. Sure the up front costs are enormous. But think of all the work created! Not to mention all the work for lawyers and prosecutors clearing all the false positives!

What's say that you and I start a consulting company and bring this about in private industry. We get specially built ass scanners that can simulate the output of every commercial photocopier known to man. For a generous fee we build a data base of scanned asses of all people entering and leaving public and private buildings then use specially created butt matching software to match asses. Armed with this technology, we would be able to, with a high degree of certainty, almost instantly catch any employee or visitor who dared to photocopy his or her own ass and post it on a company bulletin board.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Joy Bringer
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:31 AM

I agree Mick, any official material is open to abuse, only yesterday 24 boxes of blank British passports were stolen in a raid. Last month a major crime ring was smashed forging official documents.

Such material would always be desirable to criminals, but we still need our passports and official documents, because undesirables abuse these isn't a reason not to use them.

Just imagine Mick if everyone consented to DNA testing, imagine the number of serious crimes could be solved, the number of criminals who thought they had got away with the perfect crime.

I really think there should be a voluntary database set up. My brothers mother-in-law aged 79, was subjected to an ordeal in her own home before being robbed by three men. Police told him the collected a lot of DNA from the scene but no matches on file (one urinated over her sofa). Crimes like this could be cleared up.

Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:31 AM

I can see no real need to put everyone in a DNA database.

Yes, if someone commits a violent crime, add them. If somebody wants to be added, add them. But too much mischief can be perpetrated, in addition to the sinister ones many of us are afraid of.

For instance, testing married couples to assure that their offspring will be perfect, or not conceive children or abort them. No physically defective people like me to suffer or be a burden to society. Generally, I'm not a burden tho' I have suffered. No mentally challenged people like my aunt. Eugenics through DNA testing.

Somebody checking for 'distantly related kin' and insinuating themselves in those peoples lives, either out of curiosity or avarice.

I have my original Social Security Card. On it is written, "Not to Be Used for Identification". Really!? How long has that been breeched? How much more can be done with a DNA database?

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:50 AM

I think that's a really hot business plan, man. I know some VC types who would probably float it if the SUpreme Court will bless the practice.


A

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 11:53 AM

"... police or government being able to read your emails or listen to your telephone calls if so required? "

Because "police" and "government" are not actual bodies, they are made up of people. People who are as flawed as you or me. People who are power hungry or just plain hungry, people who are vengeful, people who are bullies and people who are timid and manipulable, people who are vulnerable to blackmail - the possibilities for abuse are endless.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:00 PM

JB

Do you really think that the guy who peed on the couch is going to volunteer his DNA to the database? Obviously, if it is voluntary it will clear up very few crimes. It seems to me that the cost of a voluntary database would greatly outweigh the benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM

How about passport snooping and spying on the medical records of celebrities?

I just LOVE that stuff! It's my nosy right to read all about medical test results for Brangelina and see the records from Heath Ledger's autopsy!

Not to mention where Barack Obama and his wife have travelled and when!

Enquiring minds demand to know, and WE have nothing to hide, so why should ANYONE have a right to hide?

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM

Oh, and if YOU have a medical condition our insurance company doesn't want to pay for, DON'T BOTHER TO APPLY TO OUR COMPANY!

We'll search every online medical database there is to get the goods on your medical conditions too, and send you a form letter stating "thanks, but no thanks" and you will never be the wiser why you didn't get a call for a job interview.

Ha! Nothing to hide, indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:44 PM

.... let's see if I understand this. In your opinion, when one has a medical condition, they should be denied employment? Then they end up on the welfare rolls and it is OK with you to pay for their medical care? So...... just for the sake of conversation .... it would be a good thing to have universal healthcare, so that companies would not have to waste their resources checking this out, or worry about covering folks. Then everyone could have a job and PRESTO, welfare taxes would go down. Does that work for you?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:47 PM

Big Mick, please see my request in the other thread, asking why you are personally targeting me and calling me names?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:50 PM

My posts on medical privacy (and box cutters in the other thread) were intended to be ironic humor, BTW.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:54 PM

DV, you need to understand a basic tenet of discussion forums. When you post an opinion, it is open for discussion. Somehow you think that I am following you around and targetting you. Nothing could be further from the truth. We just happen to be in the same discussions right now. When you make a post, such as the last one (30 July 08 at 1:40 PM) it begs a response. And that is what you got. One who doesn't want responses should not post things that beg one. OK? As I said in the other thread, lighten up, grab a Coke, smile, and enjoy the give and take that occurs here.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:58 PM

I won't be bullied. I prefer to leave the discussion here.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:00 PM

OK DV, that is your choice. I will leave it to the others in this thread to judge if my posts were an examply of bullying behaviour. Too bad, really.

Back to the discussion.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:30 PM

I'm not too sure about this one.

OK, in cases of rape, murder, and serious assault, DNA may (and I do mean MAY) give an instant result, because they tend to involve DNA being found ON somebody's person, which requires intimate contact, and therefore is likely to turn up a very small number of suspects, or even only one.

Having said that, I can't see how it would help in terms of solving bank robbery, or business premises crime where half the town's citizens may have left DNA traces in the course of legitimate actions.

Both in the USA and the UK, police forces are already adept at solving crimes of violence, usually having some idea of the culprit's identity within hours. For the very small number of cases which are solved ONLY due to DNA evidence, it seems to be overkill to sample all citizens.

In addition, there is the problem of trust. I don't trust the UK government to keep my data safe, and I have good reason for that distrust.

In the last year they have lost CDs containing the records and bank details of fifteen million individuals. They have lost or had stolen files cotaining medical records, laptops containing classified data, and memory sticks ditto.

I wouldn't trust them to look after my Saturday shopping list.

So NO! No DNA database thank you. Just how would you clear yourself when some crook stole the DNA sample and smeared YOU all over his latest heist?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 02:54 PM

Could this be the exchange you two are talking about? It looks like a simple misunderstanding to me.

>>>Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM

Oh, and if YOU have a medical condition our insurance company doesn't want to pay for, DON'T BOTHER TO APPLY TO OUR COMPANY!

We'll search every online medical database there is to get the goods on your medical conditions too, and send you a form letter stating "thanks, but no thanks" and you will never be the wiser why you didn't get a call for a job interview.

Ha! Nothing to hide, indeed!
_____________________________________________

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:44 PM

.... let's see if I understand this. In your opinion, when one has a medical condition, they should be denied employment? Then they end up on the welfare rolls and it is OK with you to pay for their medical care? So...... just for the sake of conversation .... it would be a good thing to have universal healthcare, so that companies would not have to waste their resources checking this out, or worry about covering folks. Then everyone could have a job and PRESTO, welfare taxes would go down. Does that work for you?

Mick<<<


Mick,

I am 99.99 % sure DV was talking ironically.

DV,

Mick did plainly did not understand your irony, that is true. Please bear in mind that a lot of people say outrageous things on this forum who are not being ironic at all. It is sometimes advisable to somehow hint that you do not actually believe what you are saying.

Please also consider that you may have over reacted a tad. It looks to me he countered your argument and did not attack you. Please also consider that his tone may have come from the fact that what you said WAS outrageous and that HE thought that YOU actually believed it.

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:18 PM

The only people who seem to disagree are those who must have something to hide !

Just think how much more efficient the Gestapo could have been if they had had access to a DNA database back in 1939.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: DNA database
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:28 PM

At what point will advances in cloning lead to "DND identity theft"