How ethnically diverse are we?

Subject: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:14 AM

I was talking to a friend the other day and wondering how much diversity we have among us, as far as ethnic background goes. I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. I know we have many who have some Native American heritage. I am wondering what other backgrounds there might be among us.

For anonymity, one can change their cookie, and post just their ethnic background; or, be "out" about it if you are comfortable. Or, tell me it's a lot of BS and to P%#@ off! **Big grin**

I am from Scottish, Irish, English and Native American background, which I suspect will probably be the prevailing trend around here, No Offense Intended!

Thanks,

katlaughing, curiosity may kill the Kat, but it also keeps her coming back!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:27 AM

Heh katlaughing!

I am your typical "American mutt", Right arm and brains are Irish, left arm German...seriously, Irish, German, Ukrainian, with some Dutch and English thrown in for extra flavour (so the story goes).

It would be interesting to see (especially with those from the "melting pot") if one's personal ethnicity affected the type of music each is interested in...I, at an early age, became interested with Irish music. Then German/Bavarian/Austrian...then in my college days when I took music more seriously, I dabbled into Ukrainian music (listening only) and other Celtic stuff...I suppose if I hear a song and I like it, I am willing to try more of the same. In the last few years, for instance, I've been to Greek festivals and have become enthralled with Greek dance. It is interesting to me that lots of tunes I have always loved (ie old standards) are of English origin.......

That should just about do it for me!

Mary who Sings Irish songs.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: campfire
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:36 AM

Kat, I doubt many of the non-US-'Catters have much Native American heritage - but then, I may be wrong.

I've always considered myself a "mutt" - a rather honogeneous blend of a similar mixture of bloodlines on both sides of the family. As it ends up I'm about 1/2 a mixture of English, Irish, Welsh and Scottish background, more than 1/4 "Scandanavian", mostly Norwegian but some Danish and possibly Finnish; and the little less than 1/4 is an unknown, but likely has Germanic influences, and yes, there is rumour of Native Americans back there somewhere, too.

My geneology is somewhat compromised by an adopted great grandfather, but, while he was still alive, his "real" sisters found him. But my grandmother would get confused when asked about the family, blending her father's birth family's with his adopted family's background.

My father's side is where the music comes from - can't say which "part".

campfire

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mudjack
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:42 AM

1/2 Okie and 1/2 Missourian. That translates to about 2 parts indian, 2 parts scot, 2 parts welch, 2 parts irish and since I love Mexican food so well, 2 parts mexican.Since I was born in California I was once told I was CIO. California Improved Okie
Mj

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bonedaddy
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:46 AM

Well, since you were kind enough to ask... I think from what I've been able to put together My family was primarily Dutch and English though I pretty much just claim to be a Floridian.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: jets
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:01 AM

100% Arcadian French but I play and love Finnish music

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:23 AM

German with a bit of Scotch-Irish on my father's side (and he was born in Oklahoma); Scotch-Irish on my mother's side: she was born beneath the Mountains of Mourne-- in Moneyderra (sp?), Analong, Belfast. Related to Chinese Gordon through my mother's mother. Ethnically white-bread but never eat the crap (except sourdough). Maybe about one 32nd American Indian on my Father's side--I believe I heard words to that effect in my youth. Married to a Japanese woman, have a happa son. Used to prefer brown rice, but now eat white almost exclusively. Musically diverse but Appalachian and African American greatest influences. Have ethnically diverse Labrador retrievers: one black, one reddish yellow. --seed

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 03:00 AM

Very.

I am of the opinion that we should refer to ourselves as MIXED RACE, for that is what we ALL are.

My grandfather was Polynesian and that is about the 'purest' blood that is in me, as the rest of my European make-up is very mixed-up and unclear.

Is it is not more important where we go, than where we come from?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Roger the zimmer
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 03:57 AM

One Irish grandfather born in India, the rest English. educated partly in Wales, drink French wine and Greek brandy, confirmed Hellenophile.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 05:06 AM

Pretty much pure-bred Berkshire English - both parents from country families which didn't move around much. (Though there is a rumour of some 'noble' blood via a serving maid...) In contrast to the very conservative bloodline, I like pretty much any traditional music of whatever ethnic persuasion. My husband has German, Welsh, Romany & English blood in varying quantities - and has much the same musical taste.

- but it would be nice to think that the music we feel most 'connected to' touches some sort of ancestral race memory. So - Although I suspect that the grandfather who was 'found on the doorstep' was actually of very local origin, perhaps I'll choose to believe him an exotic & diverse mix (after all, my mum does have very high cheekbones for a Batts Green girl..)

- Kris

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:06 AM

On my father's side, I am fifth generation German immigrant. Balthasar and Cunnigunda fled Germany and arrived in Carroll County in 1850. On my mother's side, I am second generation Swedish.

I have no sense that these influence my music or any other behavior. Although my maternal grandparents were native Swedes, they seldom spoke Swedish and, aside from drinking, did not celebrate any obvious Swedish customs. And on my father's side, there were no hints of Germanic ancestry except for my last name.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:56 AM

From those in my family who are interested in these things, they say we are Melungeon.....the next time I respond to one of those forms that asks such things that is what I'm going to write down.....ought to spawn some curiosity.

I am also married to a Panamanian, so I guess that makes our kids PanAmericans....at least that's what I claim when I have to respond to questions about their ethnicity.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Philippa
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 08:41 AM

So what is a Melungeon?
I didn't know until a few weeks ago, when I was doing research on Tamazight (Berber/Amaghzien language of N Africa) and came across this article

See also: melungeon home page
The search even led me to the Lumbee history page where you can click to get some Musical History (lubee hymn singing etc)

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 09:24 AM

English mostly, which is really another term for mutt. One eighth Irish from Great Grandmother Mary Ann Cronin from County Cork.
Brown hair and grey eyes so most likely some Celtic ancestry. Red hair runs strongly in my Mother's family so I would like to think that she was descended from Boudicca. But that is just wishful thinking.
I tan very easily so it is likely that there is s touch of the 'tar brush' in there somewhere. Actually when slavery was abolished in England the whole black population disappeared in the space of about 100 years. They just intermarried and were absorbed into the whole population.

Regarding cultural influences outside of the British Isles. As a teenager I was very involved with American Square dancing. That, along with Lonnie Donnegan got me started on American Traditional music.
I also did a lot of International Folk Dancing, My preferences were French and Balkan.

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 09:44 AM

Good morning,

I'm German, Irish, and Italian. My mom was from Greenville, SC and had the German, Irish extraction. My Dad was actually from Italy, but he was only 3 months when he got to our wonderful shores. He baked bread for a living. My Grandfather was a shoemaker, not repair man, a shoe maker. I always thought that was great. My mom says she can trace our ancestry back to the Virginia colony. My Mom and Dad met while he was in the Army and she was in the Navy during WWII.

annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 09:51 AM

Thank you everyone. Shambs, yes it is more important where we are going. My concern was to find out if we were mostly a "white bread" lot and if so, if there are any people of colour, if they feel welcome or sort of shut out.

My son-in-law, who is from Antigua, told me when I was going to be a grandmother, that they were going to have "zebra" children, 1/2 black 1/2 white; my daughter says, too, we are all of the humanrace.

I think the more the mix, the better. I live with a first generation American-French Canadian with some Native American thrown. And, you want to talk mixed races among the critters?! I've got just about every colour of cat ever thought of, a "zebra" border collie, etc.

The Story of English was on PBS years ago. It was fascinating for me as it traced the roots of my US Western heritage back through the Scots/Irish/English etc. settlers of America. In a similar was I believe the music I grew up hearing was influenced. But, we were NEVER limited to any one kind. I love music from many different cultures, as do my children.

Thanks, again.

kat

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:23 AM

Yep, We're a mixed up lot and proud of it!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:33 AM

Philippa,

Your blue clicky thing "this article" was interesting, as was "So what is a Melungeon?" thanks. My uncle loaned me a book some years back by an author who had traced his Melungeon heritage- it might have been written by the selfsame Dr. Kennedy. The name sounds vaguely familiar as regards Melungeon themes.

Regards, Neil

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:37 AM

My Father emigrated from Dublin Ireland, my mother is from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and her family (McLean) had been there for as long as anyone could remember. Anyone familiar with Cape Breton will know that a lot of the Scottish bloodlines there are purer (for lack of a better word) than in Scotland. I believe that the Irish music that my grandfather passed down to my dad and my uncles combined with my mother's East Coast tastes gave me the love of traditional acoustic music.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:57 AM

My mothers side is from Switzerland, (sp?) However the name is very English/Scottish. So I claim membership in the MacFarlane Clan and wear that tarton at Scottish events. However there was an adopted GGGfather in there too. However we just assume that adoption is fine as far as the name goes. In the old clan system, they did a lot of adopting. Father side, well, he claimed to be 1/2 Inidan, however his mother would never register or even talk to the tribe. He would tell stories about these aunts that would come around and make him drink all these wierd tonics. He hated that and would go hide in the woods when they showed up. Now for the wierd part. The last name is Howard. That is a big name in England. (Mary Howard had her head chopped off by King Henery VIII.) Well, Mary wasn't the only Howard killd by that king. There was a Sheriff of London, named Howard, that objected to his relitive (Mary) getting the axe. So he got his head lopped off too. Now if you compair a picture of this Howard and my father side by side. They could be brothers. So I think the name stayed true. We don't know who was the first Howard to come over in this line, but we think he was more than likly a horse thief running from the law. That would fit in with what I know of that side of the family, Cops or Robbers. They seemed to swing from side to side.

So, If my father was 1/2 Indian, does that make me 1/4 or 1/8?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: tomtom
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:04 AM

I'm not so sure about "the more mixed up the better." My father is Indian--from India, not Native American. And my mother is as WASP-y as a WASP can be. In fact, I have a direct relative that came over on the Mayflower. It's not such an easy thing to be the "product" (for lack of a better word) of two radically different cultures. I think it's difficult for racially mixed parents to raise children because there are so many cultural rubbing points. Maybe my case is a bit extreme since my father lived in India until he was 32, but I think inevitably there will be strain in a racially mixed household, even if it's not discussed out in the open. My parents have done a pretty remarkable job of keeping things together. Hell, they've been married for 32 years. But not without a lot of . . . compromise.

I also think there's something to be said for having some kind of cultural identity. I'm not white, which immediately makes me a bit of an outsider in the good ole USofA--though usually people think I'm Italian, Middle Eastern, Latin American, etc. And I'm, of course, not Indian. I've spent a few years of my life there, and feel a real affinity to the place, but I don't speak my father's South Indian dialect well, and I don't exactly look Indian. It's not so nice feeling slightly out of step everywhere you go.

Having said all that, I wouldn't change my situation for anything. I've grown to see it as a blessing, though it has taken a long time. Many very rascist people use the old "it's hard on the children" excuse to justify there rascist stance on interracial marriages. 99 out of 100 times, a person who says something like that doesn't give a damn about the children. In fact, usually, they're the ones who are most inclined to treat a racially mixed child as an outcast. I don't want to fuel their fire, but there is a kernal of truth in their uniformed opinion.

I'm not challenging Kat's love of and faith in cultural diversity at all. My existence depends on it. I just thought I'd be a grump and stir things up a bit.

tomtom

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Margo
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:16 AM

I'm not sure how to address this. My family on both sides is Jewish. My Father's side came out of Russia and spread all over Europe. My dad was born in Bulgaria as was his dad. My grandmother was born in Turkey. His parents were first cousins. His great grandfather was tailor to the sultan of Turkey. (a few stories there)

My mother's dad was born in Ukraine. They tell me that his wife, my grandma, was Pennsylvania Deutch but her maiden name was Swartz. My other Grandmother's maiden name was Swarz. My mom was born in Pittsburgh PA.

I suppose I'm Jewish mutt. But I consider myself Christian! (That should excite Jews for Jesus)

Margarita nee Margaret Eve Rosenstein

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Margo
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:31 AM

Tomtom, your post came in while I was writing mine. While I was single, I told God that I would marry whoever he sent me, whether he was black, yellow or whatever color. Bald or fuzzy, short or tall, fat or thin.

So I end up marrying Mr.White. He is white, as I am. But I hate calling myself "white" because as you can see above, my heritage is so varied. It irks me when I am lumped in the great catagory of "white people" which implies that I have some sort of attitude towards people of other color. It's a form of discrimination.

Has anyone experienced discrimination because of being "white"?

Margarita

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:33 AM

Well, I can't help remembering Tony Hancock's outrage at being asked about his blood type in the classic skit "The Blood Donor" "English, English! Twenty generations, with perhaps a touch of Viking thrown in!"
As much as I wish I could claim some more exotic roots, I'm 3rd generation Canadian, with English ancestors. Did a "roots check" a few years ago and found that I am definitely the under-achiever in the Fielding line. Long history of public servants, ie. mayors, councillors, and university grads.
The name, although it sounds common enough, was actually easy to trace, and we seem to have a couple of notables way back when. "Henry", of course wrote Tom Jones, and he was related to Dickens. Also there was a "hanging" judge back there in the 1600s.
Gotta figure that the best of the lot was "Bill", my dad though. From Coboconk Ont. He was a Jazz musician, pharmacist, WW11 overseas vet from '39 to 44, sales mgr. for Schering, and as I found out for years after his death, respected and liked by everyone he met.
Sorry to digress Kat, but this got me thinkin' about him.
rick

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:35 AM

Well tomtom, you're not an outsider here, you're one of us. But if things have been hard at times we'll let you be a bit of a grump now and then. Just don't take advantage of it.

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: tomtom
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:44 AM

Margarita,

I didn't mean to imply that "whites are rascist." I'm not exactly sure what I said to make you think I was implying this gross generalization. But not being white in America has caused me a lot of hassles. I can't remember a time when I haven't gotten the old "shake-down" in customs coming back to the states.

I was just trying to present the other side of the coin with cultural diversity.

tomtom

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:57 AM

I saw a documentary last night (in the UK) about Black Power groups in NYC, with a slot on Khallid Muhammed - scared me sh*tless, I can tell you. Good luck to you all over there... Fadac, are you listening? I think you may be right after all...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:11 PM

Margarita,

White, black, blue....doesn't matter. If you're male and have a pony tail half way down your back and walk into a working class bar on a payday Friday afternoon in August you're taking your life into your own hands for being either 'queer,' a blank blank 'hippie,' or both.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:22 PM

Unless you're wearing a sleeveless T-shirt and have arms that look like freakin' eggplants and a general appearance that's a cross between Joe Palooka and the Wandering Jew...............

Ethnically, my Dad was half German and half Italian, and my Mom was straight English on both sides with roots tracing back to the Isle of Wight and Cornwall. Not too entertaining...........

catspaw

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:30 PM

Rick, no need to apologise about digressing, esp. when it's about your da. This thread is about all of that and more and whatever else anyone wants to add in.

Tomtom, thank you for your postings. I suspect my grandsons will have similiar experiences, here, in America, although they live in CT, in an area where there is a lot of racial diversity. My daughter and son-in-law live in a four-plex. Besides themselves, there is a couple from Cuba; and an African American family. In the entire apt. complex there are many Puerto Rican families and more from the West Indies. They feel pretty comfortable there.

My mother was one of those people who said I hope they don't plan on chldren becaus eof the way they will be treated. She was NOT a racist, though, just very concerned. Nothing could have made her happier than to have twin grandsons born and she really enjoyed every minute of knowing about them before she passed away. My only regret is that she never actually got to hold them or see them in person.

I know what you mena baout customs, though. Even though they are comfortable, my son-in-law does notice not so subtle actions on the part of security guards and such. When he goes to WalMart, certain guards always put their hands on the guns when they see him, as he is BIG and A very deep colour of mahoganny. If the cops stop him when he is alone in the car, they ask him who owns it; when my white daughter drives it, they ask for the registration. A lot of assumptions are being made, probably wihtout too much thought.

Anyone here have ancestors in Pugwash County, Nova Scotia? Fountains, Crawfords, Ralstons, Sutherlands? My grandma was a Crawford. How about any Ewings in Scotland?

Maybe I should have named this the genealogy thread!

Thanks everyone. Let's keep stirring the pot!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:33 PM

Sounds pretty entertaining to me, 'Spaw! Nice to see you on. How's the weather doing, now?

kat

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:39 PM

How come?

If you see a T shirt on a black guy that says "Soul" or "Black Power", we think "That's nice" No big deal.

If we see a woman with a T shirt that says "Fem Power" or has the female symbol on it, we think, "Oh, that's nice, I'm for women too."

However if you see a white guy with a T shirt that says "White power", we imeaditly think he is some sort of KKK raciest, evil person.

I this is called white guilt. Something about all the worlds problems layed at a white guys feet. Sorry folks but I don't feel that way. I have no guilt about my skin color. I also don't examin the skin color of my friends. I just don't think it's important. So my friends are many shades, however they have intrest similar to mine. That is why we are friends. No I don't have any iner city homless black friends. I don't go to the iner city, none of my sailing, motorcycling, flying, muisc, intrests are there. I also don't know many rich bankers or stock brokers either.

Before anyone jumps on me about the slavery thing. Remember ALL races have kept slaves. Like it or not, the white race stopped it. (wasn't easy, but it was done.) Now in the past 100 years, the world is mostly slave free. I can't speak for the Arab world or the Orient, I'm think there has been some reports of slavery there.

BTW, the English tried Irish and Scottish slaves in the new world about 100 years before bringing in the blacks. It was called "indentured servatude", however people were drafted into it, and then bought and sold, most never did get their freedom. I think one of my Scottish side ancesters was driven from their home and sent to Canada, becasue the landlord (Guess who?) needed the space for sheep. But that is a family legend I can't prove it.

So, what's the point? Don't worry about all the bad things your great grand parents did. Think of the good points too, and strive for today. We can't change our parents, or our history, however we can avoid the same mistakes.

Fadac

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:21 PM

"....cross between Joe Palooka and the Wandering Jew." Priceless mental image! :-D

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:24 PM

I recall the day that the late Dick Rosmini (a fine guitar picker) lost his job (in a Calypso band ) because he wasn't black and lost his girlfriend because he wasn't Jewish...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 03:02 PM

I love Rosmini, Dick. I have one of his albums. Are we having a thread creep(?), I think that's what it's called anyway. I can only say times, they are a changin'. Thank goodness.

I remember a time when Rosmini would have hung or beat up for even wanting to play with black musicians. As for marriing a jewish woman, well...

My younger friends, here at work in a prominant NY bank, who consist of every race, color, and sex imaginable, ask me about the sixties. I tell them most of them sure wouldn't be working here if it weren't for that time.

Everyday is getting better, though some may see it as worse. Maybe this explains my faith in humanity.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Margo
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 04:05 PM

Oh dear, FADAC! That's not my understanding of what an indentured servant was. As I understand it, an indentured servant voluntarily entered into the contract. The "owner" paid the servant's passage to the colonies, and the servant in turn was bound to serve for a set number of years. At the end of the servitude, the servant was given a sort of severance package of money or tools to get started in their own life as a free person.

Benjamin Franklin's mother had been an indentured servant, and in reading his auto biobraphy, I sensed no shame at the fact.

Margarita

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 04:16 PM

Margarita,

That was true in some cases, people who wanted to come here. In many cases though, criminals (and crime could be owing money) were given the choice of prison or coming here as a servant. Many times it was up to the person who bought you when your servitude was complete. Hence, slavery. In any case, from what I've read, abuse was the rule rather than the exception.

annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 04:19 PM

Margarita, Your correct, of course.

I was thinking of more in the 1500-1600 the very early days. I think they were called indentered servents, but they had to work 20 years for their freedom. Most folks only lived to about 30-35, so it wasn't a real hot deal. Somtimes the volunteer had a choice between that or jail. As I understand it never worked all that well. The Scotts and Irish would run away. There were several cases where they went to the Indians and asked to join the tribe. The Chief would tell them, "Ok, but here are our rules." The Indians gave them a better deal than the old masters, so they split. Then in the southern part of the country people died for all sorts of reasons. Real hot weather, long hard hours, these folks just died like flies. That is one of the reasons that they used Blacks. They could take the weather better. I could be wrong, the real early days of what went on here is still quite clouded. History dosn't seem to really start untill about 1700 or so. But there were people here from the middle 1500's, so there is about a 200 year gap. Perhaps some history buff will explain it.

BTW, even when most of the slaves in the US were Black, there was some white slaves too. Not a lot, but they were there. I believe a white could be sold into slavery for debt, for example. I think a lot of this has been covered up by the dust of time.

However my point was (is) we can't be held accountable for what our forfathers did. We have to live in our own times.

Happy Thursday....

Fadac

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mike Billo
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 04:52 PM

I'm not making up any of the following. It's all true. The results of the 1980 census, were that the smallest ethnic minority in the USA were people of Ruthenian ancestry, whose family had been here less than two generations (under 2000 people). That's me!! In 1990 we were knocked out of first place by a nomadc Arab group that had settled in Michigan (I'd like to hear an anthropologist explain that one. It certainly can't be because the weather reminded them of home). So, I'm a first-generation American, of Ruthenian ancestry.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 05:02 PM

Please excuse my lack of knowledge, but can you tell me where Ruthenians come from and can you tell me a little bit about that country.

annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mike Billo
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 05:11 PM

We're a Russian-speaking sub-culture that claims to be a seperate ethnic group, and for reasons I'm unsure of, everybody has recognized us as a seperate ethnic group. My family comes from the area now known as Belarus. Reportedly, Ruthenians used to make flutes out of the bones of slain enemies. I'm happy to report, that custom is no longer practiced.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: LEJ
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 05:19 PM

So Mike, where the heck IS Ruthenia anyway?

Fadac, if there is a family tradition of your ancestors being booted out of their homes to make room for sheep grazing, it may well be true: In the late 1700's , most of the Highlands were depopulated in order to break up the Clans and acquire grazing lands for the wealthy landowners. Many Highlands Scots went to Canada or Australia, others wound up in the mountains of Virginia and North Carolina- my Great-Great-Great Grandfather Jacob was one of them. He was awarded land in Kentucky for service in the Revolutionary War. He settled in a valley there alongside other veterans, most of them ex-patriate Scots and Welsh. Jacob's Grandson Stephen fought with the Confederate Army of Tennessee, was wounded, and returned home to marry a 19 year old Cherokee girl.

And so my Mom's family is an old one in Kentucky. My Dad's family were relative late-comers. His Grandpa was Swedish, his mother's family English and Irish. I say Long Live the Melting Pot... the more flavors, the better the stew.

LEJ

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: bbc
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:22 PM

I'm in the fairly common WASP category--some mix of English, Irish, German, & maybe a little Dutch. An Irish forebear (who kept a journal) came to America just before the American Revolution & fought on the American side, technically making me, I suppose, a Daughter of the American Revolution, although I have never followed up. A favorite family story involves my maternal German grandma, who chased her daughters (difficult, at best!) around the farmyard w/ a butcher knife. My temper is, generally, under better control.

Duane is a mix of English, Irish, & Lithuanian. Musically, he leans toward his Irish grandfather.

bbc

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:32 PM

As far as whites also being slaves, it has ever been thus for all women, until relatively recently, and of course still goes on in many subtle and not so subtle ways, from the high society "deb" who is expected, still, to marry into the "right" family regardless of how she feels, to the very young girls who are castrated and sewn shut in certain tribal societies.

Remember, we only gained the right to vote, in the US, this century; women were thrown in jail for marching for that right; we were used to get enough votes to make Wyoming a statehood (they didn't have enough men); we were used to replace the men in the factories of WWII; we are still used in low paying jobs and without very many voices of power to advocate equality; there are many religions, still, which promote/demand subjugation of woman as a lesser class of being, just as so much chattel, as in the "old days".

It seems to me young women and men need to be reminded of the advances we have accomplished and how they came about, so that they will cherish those freedoms, not take them for granted, and, hopefully, work for more change. I still hear way too many young women judging themselves in terms of how they appeal to men, to society in general, etc. never realising the most important person they have to answer to is themselves.

I don't know if we will ever have true equality, as I feel, in general, women will always be seen, first, as objects of sex, secondly, if we're lucky, as a human being. And, before some guy jumps in here and says men have become objects of sex appeal in commercials etc., let me say, it IS different! Men have the choice and have always had the choice, usually due to economics. They are not generally viewed solely as sex objects. There is also usually not the implicit danger for men that there is for women when viewed as sex objects.

Okay, I am off my podium (no soapboxes for this wimmin's libber!)**BG**

katlaughing and breaking the chains!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:33 PM

LEJ, That sounds about right. My mom was the only one in her family that was born in the USA. The rest, Canada. So could be true. I lived on the Quilute Indian reservation for part of my early years. I worked on a fishing vessel that was based there. The Quilutes are relitives of the Maka Indians in Nea Bay. That's where the tree huggers are crying that the Indians are taking a whale. Me, I'm for the Indians, if it costs a couple of non endangered whales to give those folks a bit of pride in themselves, then so be it. Anyway, I knew a lot of those people. For them running water is a luxury. I mean these folks are poor. 99.9% are good people, when they are sober.

It's great to celabrate all the historys of other people, but remember, us white folks have a history too.

Minority? Heck, I'm the smallest minority, there is only one of me, and lots and lots of others. Like bunches of others.

How about this for a minority group, Big, Blond, Vet, Bearded, Squeeze box player. Gee there can't be more than a million of us...can there?

Only 8 more hours till FRIDAY!

Fadac

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 06:44 PM

Aren't 99.9% of almost allpeople mostly "good" when sober? I have a bugaboo about generalisations. When we talk of "those people" or "them" we are creating a difference of class; it usually winds up sounding like a put down or attitude of superiority, whether one means for it to or not.

I understand that some white males may feel a little beleagured; but please remember, you are still in the majority and positions of power in most instances, have been for about 2,000 years. Now it is the turn of the rest of us to discover the truths of our his/herstory. I know change can be difficult and confusing, but we are only finding our voices and that can only be good for the entire peoples and planet, as I believe it can help to bring about a "walking in balance" for all peoples and creatures of this great old "ball of clay", as my dad calls it.

kat

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 07:04 PM

Kat, OK, I agree somewhat on your last. But who built the power base? Why wasn't the steamboat invented in India? Or the telephone in China? How come about 80% + of the major inventions came from people from Europe? I don't know.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I don't understand how bringing me down is going to build someone else up? In my trade (computers) the only thing that counts is computer knowlage. We have people of every color/race/sex/shoe size/culture, working here. Most are very well educated, I think we have at least 90-100 PHD's in the building. If you can do the work, you get the job. But it isn't easy work. Most spent many years learning their trade. Nobody here has a degree in basket weaving or political science. These guys have degrees in Physics, chemisty, etc. (Me, I'm the dumb one, no collage at all, just work and study at home for many years. But no degree. However at one time I could teach boluin Algabra and computer logic, I was told that I was at a Masters level, what ever that means. )

How ever, I am a racist, I think the human race is much better than the rat race, or the cow race, or the cat race, or the dog race. That's as far as I go with races.

(Oh, I didn't know that Gagus Kahn was white. He ruled a good part of the world for many years. )

Fadac

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: John OSh
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 07:06 PM

An intresting thing often happens when you travel from America to other countries... I am of Irish decent, mainly from the time of the troubles of 1916. When in America, people ask "What are you" I say Irish. But when travelling in Europe (esp. Ireland) I say I am American (and Proud of it!). I actually enjoyed this experience, as it shows the vast range of ethnicities and culture in America that we can enjoy yet still maintain a national identity.

John OSh

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: MudGuard
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 07:07 PM

I am not very diverse ethnically:
All my known ancestors came from Germany, though from various parts (Bavaria, Thuringia, Saxonia, Frankonia ...).
My father did some (lots of) research and was able to track some of my ancestors back to 780 (no, there is no 1 missing, he really found some family trees reaching back to the eighth century!!!), and all those ancestors came from some parts of Germany - so I might say I am a true German (but I am not proud of it, it is not my merit...).

Andreas

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 07:43 PM

Most of our history has been written by white males. Sorry, guys, I guess if I am going to step in doodoo, it might as well be big doodoo: with limited time for research: inventions elsewhere: China-gunpowder, that ought to make some of you happy.

For extensive information on the ancient civilisations of Islam and what they contributed to the sciences, esp. medicine, please visit here

Here is an excerpt: So it is with justification that the title of "Europe's Professor' is given to the newly-arisen Islamic power, since it was through them that the treasures of ancient Greek and Roman science were rediscovered and enhanced and given back to Europe as she began to emerge from the Dark Ages."

It's really an interesting site.

Here's another on really ancient inventions of the Ukrainian region click here

And, here is one more which is a very interesting site about 4000 years of women in science click here

I will post more info on inventions of other civilisations as I get them.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 08:39 PM

This is a tough one for me. My mothrers ancestory is French-Scott. And Covenanters the lot of them! And even the French past of the ancestory are Scotts emigres from the days of the Clearances. What we know of my father's history is small indeed. We know that he, Hans, and his brother, Wilhelm, were orphaned in 1923 when both my grand parents died of TB. A common end to immigrants from Europe. They knew little of their parents other than they came from a part of Austria that was Czechoslovakian one week and Austrian the next. No papers exist to our knowing that would identify much of a family history. So much of my past is lost to me. And for a historian thats a major disappointment. I know that Dad would have loved to have known more of his parents than the 6 short years of his memory contained.

Don

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Jack (who is called jack)
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:48 PM

Try as I might, I haven't varied all that much, ethnically speaking.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: emily rain
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 12:36 AM

wow. lots o' stuff to read through here.

personal ethnicity inventory: 3/4 scandinavian (slightly more norwegian than swedish), 1/8 french via canada, and 1/8 BIG WILD CARD. my great grandmother florence claimed to be english, but nearly everyone who looks at her photos wonders if she might have been quadroon or octaroon (1/4 or 1/8 or less af-am) and "passing" for white. we don't know anything about her parents, but we do know about her times and the extreme dangers black folks endured... it's hard to be dark skinned in america today, but there were times when it was much harder.

white guilt: as regards my own psyche, i find that guilt of that magnitude does way more harm than good. i try to be constantly aware of the little and the not-so-little ways in which my life is easier because of my coloring, and i try to draw attention to discrimination, prejudice, and racism when i see them. i try to be good to everyone, and i try to apologize when i make mistakes (and there have been some doozies). i vote carefully. what more can i do?

emily

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Duckboots
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 01:50 AM

No diversity here (as far as I know) I'm all Scottish.

Duckboots

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 04:22 AM

only German genes back at least to the 16th century. There's nothing in my genetic endowment that should drive me to this place.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 09:06 AM

Ah, but Wolgang, "folk" music is from all over the world, so anybody's genetic heritage might frive them here. We all juts need to hear more of the folksongs you know!*BG*

I never meant to imply that those of you who can trace to one main ethnic background are lacking in anyway. This was just to get an idea of where we are all coming from, that's all.

kat

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: LEJ
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 12:19 PM

Catspaw- I'm still wondering about the "arms that look like freakin' eggplants" remark...

LEJ

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Indy Lass
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 02:36 PM

My background is basically southern WASP. My grandfather in western Oklahoma was known for his harmonica playing and sang his own songs. His wife, my grandmother, was english with 1/8 Native American. Her Nat. Am. branch of th family came to OK from New York state as travelling piano teachers, hauling their pianos in a wagon pulled with mules. My dad's family lives in Georgia with some relatives in North Carolina. His name is Stipe: Dutch-german with some English and Irish thrown in. So thats my known "musical" geneology.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 02:52 PM

Irish, Scotch, French

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Curtis & Loretta
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 03:30 PM

Loretta - Half Swedish, half Swiss, with a small dab of Italian and German

Curtis - 1/4 Cherokee, the rest a mixture of English & Irish, maybe Scottish

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Henry
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 04:14 PM

I just realise that untill my generation , all of my family had been French speaking Quebecers , up from 1632 ( genealogy if a popular past time in Québec ) . My wife is Belgian ( Flemish father Walloon mother) my brothers in law Flemish and Acadian, my step daughter is Basque , my son in law Mexican and my niece's boy friend in Tunisian . We all speak french at home .

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 06:06 PM

just like katlaughing..with a HEAVY dose of Scot....(have Scotts, Murrays, Bogles, McCombs, etc...in the mix)as well as Days (which can be either Scot or Irish..)and English Vassars...also...had one great-great grandmother who was full Cherokee and did not speak english

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: manylodges (inactive)
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 06:20 PM

catlaughing, I have Dutch, German on my mothers side and pure Italian on my Fathers side. I used to tell every one there's alot of meatballs on both sides of the tree.

I have a very good friend here in Illinois that is a spiritual leader for the Potawatomi people. I have sat in alot of pipe cerimonies. He always reminds me, that being Native American has nothing to do with the color of my skin but rather with the way of the heart. walk the red path and live within the circle. see ya.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 06:54 PM

manylodges, that is SO true! I was at a metaphysical fair, one time, selling my jewelry, when a man from West Africa walked in the hall. We noticed each other right away and he came over to me. We began to talk and he said to me, "You are Native American, aren't you?" ME, with my red hair, green eyes, and fair skin that burns even thinking about the sun! Of course, I'd seen others at the Powwows back East who were almost full blood and looked like me, so I felt okay about it. Anyway, I told him, my heart was red, my great,great grandmother was full blood from up north, and that I felt like a full blood, at times. In pictures of my greatgrandad, my grandad, and my dad, it is quite evident in their cheekbones and nose features.

Still and all, I am greatly endeared to all of my ancestral "blood" and glad that it is a mix.

I have been in a few pipe ceremonies, one in which my grandfather spoke. I also was in a healing sweat, two years ago this summer, although I had to sit outside, as it got too hot for my heart to handle. The medicine man came down from South Dakota. It was a good and powerful sweat, plus at the feast afterwards he did a cleansing, healing for me and I felt an eagle's wings embracing me with powerful strokes of air. Even now, it is hard to write about it without breaking into tears...of gratitude, wonder, and the assurance it gives me about my faith in the Great Spirit/the Cosmic.

Thank you for sharing that with us, Manylodges.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Terry
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 07:31 PM

My father came to the U.S. from Ireland when he was in his 20s. My mother's family came here from Wales (her father's side in the 1600s; her mother as a 6-year-old child in the 1890s). From these two families came some rather great sean nos singers, a music hall diva, a concert violinist and a folksinger/songwriter. Consequently, I studied classical violin but play mostly Irish traditional tunes on my fiddle these days and listen to contemporary folk.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 10:41 PM

Scottish, English, Irish, Dutch, French, probably listed as ingredients are in US fopod packaging.

Catspaw, you must have been thinking of those big heavy duty eggplants. I wouldn't mess with a guy with those kind of arms (especially if they were purple)

I guess that women can wear Fem power and Blacks can wear Black power T shirts, because they don't really have it yet.

Susan

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bulldog
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 02:45 PM

English, Irish, French/Jewish, German, Roman Stock myself. You Know, Lovable Mutt, Heinz 57 variety European..... Canadian by Choice! Cordially: Dave

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Margo
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 02:55 PM

Wolfgang, I have thought for a long time that Mozart had his "folksy" side. (OK, so he's Austrian, but anyway....) His choice of storylines for some of his operas weren't wildly popular with the royalty who employed him, but were popular with the people. After all, you can't get much fluffier than "Der Fogelfanger"!

I love Schubert leider. wouldn't that have been folk music of the time?

Margarita

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 06:13 PM

You got it right about the t-shirts Susan. Real power wears a suit and tie and hangs out in boardrooms and Govt. offices.
rick

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 07:32 PM

I'm Irish-Scots-English, although family legend has my mother's side descended from a grand daughter of William of Orange who supposedly came to America in the late 1600's, if that's possible. So add one wee drop of Dutch. And Rick, one kind of power resides where you said, but call me an optimist, I still believe that real power resides with you and me!
Allison

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Tucker
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 11:37 PM

Jezz Kat, ya ask a hell of a question! Well, I am Scots/ Irish ancestory with two Cherokee Grandmothers on my fathers side. On my mothers I am German/English (heaven forbid!)bavarian ( I know that's german but it wasnt in 1839)swiss. I have it narrowed down to one word.......American. Gun totting one at that,

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 09:00 AM

It surely depends on how far you want to go back?

Is it not true that Homo Sapiens evolved in one place and migrated to all parts of the world?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 10:11 AM

Shambles - I believe you're right.

Who we identify as being our ancestors depends on how far back we can/want to go. If we go back far enough, we all have African origins.

My Dad's side has been traced back to a Celtic tribe in France, then throw in a lot of English, some Scots and Dutch down the road a ways. My Mom's side is mostly English with some French and Scots. Those ancestors had ancestors from other places. I feel like a bowl of soup with the flavors blended so well I can't tell what each individual ingredient was, but still tasting different from everyone else's soup.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rosebrook
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 11:36 AM

During this past year, these kinds of ego-centric threads seems to be on the rise. I come here and learn so much from many of you about our shared musical passion. But as one who more often than not doesn't feel qualified to contribute, I lurk more often than post. For what it's worth, these are the kinds of threads that even I with my limited musical knowledge can participate in.

My grandparents were all Jewish immigrants from Lithuania to America. I identify myself as a Jewish lesbian, since we are in this "coming out" mode.

Musically, I have loved International folk dancing, with the music and dance of Israel, Turkey and the Baltic nations being my favorites. I also enjoy contradance, both the music and dance.

I love Celtic music and have had the priviledge of playing this type of music with other musicians in a band. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had this fulfilling experience.

Lastly, I'm crazy about classical baroque period music. There's something so orderly about it. I take advantage of the perpetual motion-nature of it by playing it when I do housework. Kind of makes the process bearable, and keeps me going. I'm fond of the use of the circle of fifths, and am especially drawn to pieces in a minor key.

Rose

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Cat a Tonic (inactive)
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 01:38 PM

Well, finally making it thru more of the threads - Mine are a mixture of Russian, Polish and Newfie - Now there's a combo, I'd say. Mother ended up in Newfoundland during the war (not alot of Jewish people were welcome in Canada at the time) and Newfoundland was still under British rule and had allowed some of the Jewish people to go there. My uncle was already there, so mom and her mom landed. Dad was of Russian decent, but he was born on the rock which is where he and mother met. Was a neat place to grow up really - actually, on a rock off of the rock. cat a tonic

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 10:03 AM

Rose....

If Bach is considered symbolic of the Baroque period (I confess, I get these periods and their representatives mixed up, though) then you are dead-on with your observation on orderliness. The pieces are so elegantly constructed and complete, no wonder he is considered a genius.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bob Landry
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 06:27 PM

Mostly Acadian and French with an unknown element thrown by my paternal great, great grandfather (family name David) whose origins are unknown. Most believe he came from France when he and his brother jumped ship in the Strait of Canso and swam ashore in the late 1700's but some argue that his origins might be from the Jersey Islands or Jewish.

Both my grandmothers are descended from one Acadian couple who were born in France around 1600 and can be found amongst the earliest census of old Acadia. I haven't found any marriages that infringed too close to the original gene pool, so I really have no reason to explain why I have a tendency to act like a blithering idiot some of the time.

Steve Latimer, check the birth records for this Arichat church. Some of your ancestors might be included there: http://members.xoom.com/Rufine/ArichatRecords.htm

Kat, I have noted some Sutherlands included there, too.

Bob

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Den
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 06:51 PM

You know its such a small world. Here I am reading this thread with much interest. I'm really interested to find out more about where people live on this planet, which seems to be getting smaller every day. Anyway I digress, I was making my way down the list when I came to Seed's message and I find out his ancestors lived 2 miles away from where I grew up myself. Its Moneydarragh seed if you ever read this and I was born 2 miles from Annalong which is about 30 miles out of Belfast going south along the coast road. If you do happen to read this Seed i'd be really interested to know what that particular ancestral name was. Quite a few of the names have been around that area for generations. My father was born in Moneydarragh and had relatives that emigrated to the USA. BTW I was born in N.Ireland in the Mourne area, moved to Belfast and then emigrated to Canada, lived in BC for 16 years and now in Nova Scotia on the other end of the country.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 07:08 PM

Thanks, Bob, I will check on that. I happened to catch a few minutes of an interview of the actor, Donald Sutherland, last night. Didn't know he came from Nova Scotia, so I suppose it's entirely possible we're related, through my great grandma. Who knows? I'll have to dig deeper! Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 08:23 PM

The ancestors I can trace are Irish and French-Canadian. I get my surname from John Charles Louis Offer, a furrier who showed up in Detroit on the 1880 census list, but wasn't there in 1870. It's assumed he was from Germany, and quite certain he died a Catholic. All the Offers I've been able to trace are Jewish, so we kind of suspect Great-grandpa converted. 1870 doesn't seem very long ago, but we've worked for years and haven't been able to get beyond that. It's been fun looking, though.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Jon W.
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 03:29 PM

I'm not ethnically diverse at all, I'm the same as everyone else.

Just felt like saying that.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 11:22 PM

Den, my grandfather, Robert Orr, married Ellen Gordon, then came to America to work on the railroad. He became a citizen before he went home for a while and conceived my mother--so she was born in 1902, a US citizen. I guess he travelled back and forth, because my mother's sister was also born in Moneydarragh, a couple of years later. I wish I knew more about this time, but anyway, he came back and picked up his wife and brought them to Oregon. His brother, Jim Orr, also came to Oregon and started a family, and Ellen's sister, Mary, made the journey, as well. They all ended up in or near Portland, Oregon. Before he came to the US, my grandfather, Robert, inherited a business, a combination bar and funeral parlor: Ellen, a strong temperance advocate, talked him into refusing it--that's why he came to the US to seek his fortune. Tuberculosis forced him to retire from the railroad, and Ellen went to work in a department store.

I know that there are still relatives on both sides of the family in the Belfast area. My mother's cousin, Betty Orr, married and had a family.

My mother wrote a memoir which I haven't read yet. I'll try to get to it and if I learn more about the early years I'll let you know. --seed

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Gloria Tham
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 11:27 PM

I'm 100% Cantonese Chinese but grew up in Malaysia (which ethnically diverse) and now studying in the United States.. Absolutely love Celtic music.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 11:34 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat, Gloria, and thank you for sharing with us. I'd love to hear more about your studies and also the folk music of your home.

You can send private messages to any of us through the Mudcat or post to the threads, as you've done here. I love Celtic music, too.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Gloria Tham
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 11:49 PM

Hi katlaughing Maybe this is not meant to be asked here how do i send messages through the Mudcat? My country's folkmusic is similar to that of Indonesia's "gamelan". Instruments are usually percussive or woodwind. Gloria

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 12:02 AM

Gloria, we have a gamelan orchestra, here in Wyoming, at the University. They are very good and I have enjoyed their concerts very much. I love the instruments and the sounds they make.

To send a personal message to any Mudcatter, from here, go back to the page which lists all of the discussion threads. Up at the top, there are several topics to choose from, including "send a personal message" (you will also see such things as "forum search"; "Links", etc.

Click on "send a personal message"; When that page comes up, scroll the list of names down and highlight on the one you wish to communicate with. You will then have a space within which to write your post and post it, much as you do messages in the threads, only it will be private to just that person.

Please do not hesitate to ask questions. Everyone on here was new at one time and many of us are still learning. Also, everyone is really very nice and helpful.

Here's a little advice on starting a thread about lyrics or music for a specific song: please be sure to be as specific as possible in the title of the thread, that way people know what you are asking for right off.

Thank you for answering so quickly and welcome, once again.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rita64
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 12:41 AM

I am tall, pale and freckly with blonde hair, blue eyes and imbued with the legendary family stubborn streak. This is how I became so:

My great great grandfather was John Lennon - seriously! He preferred to be called "Jack" though.

I am a fourth generation Australian and we can trace our noble (albeit the illegitimate side of the family) back to the convict ships that arrived in Botany Bay from England and Ireland. There was an Englishman, Sir Jowett (my GGGG grandfather), who owned a great deal of property in Australia and came out here to look after his business interests (ie, get away from his family) and he shacked up with my GGGG grandmother and had kiddies with her.

There was also an Irish lass, Ellen Murphy (not sure how many Gs grandmother), who was a bit naughty and had to be shipped to Australia. Surnames associated with my family are Graves, Sessle, Lennon and Jowett. Apparently we had a few successive generations of piano tuners in the Lennon family.

My GG grandfather (Mr Samuelsson) was a Swedish sailor from Gothenburg who met and married an English lass in Perth, Western Australia.

Everyone in my family sings and dances - it's a bit like one of those frightening MGM musicals ...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jun 99 - 11:48 AM

Margarita,
interesting points you make, could be a thread of its own, but I respond here. In Germany, it was a well accepted pastime for 'serious' composers to write folksy melodies or to write a new melody to a known song or poem. You can find in German songbooks notes like this: "The tune we publish for this song is the one most often sung though there are more than 100 tunes known for this song". You can find many known composer names (Brahms, Mozart etc.) with folksongs, i.e. songs that are sung to this melody by the people. Some songs from operas, like e.g. "Der Vogelfänger" from Mozart or at least one song from "Der Freischütz" by Weber have become sp widely known that they might now be listed in folksong collections.
Schubert is a different story, for his Lieder are much too artful to be sung by normal humans. I do not think that any of his songs is sung today using his melody.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 06:41 AM

Family legend has it that my grandfather left the Basque region of Spain and emigrated to Mexico, where he married my grandmother and moved to the US. On the other side of the family, my grandfather left Sicily alone as a young man and moved to NYC, where he met my grandmother who came here from Sicily with her parents and siblings.

My kids are little UN's: one is English, Irish, Scottish, Italian, Hispanic. The other is English, Irish, German, Swedish, Russian, Italian, Hispanic.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 06:44 AM

P.S. There's a melody by Schubert called "Heidenroslein" that is included in The Waltz Book II and adapted into a waltz by Pat Shaw.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 07:24 PM

English.

This thread shows the massive difference of the USA from almost everywhere else.

Kat. I think you have (going back to your first big post on this thread) a very strong case, but why do you say "castration". My understanding is that the word refers specifically to the removal of the testes. As you posted elsewhere to a man, he had not the essential equipment to be a lesbian.

I sympathise with the re-empowerment of female language (if that is the right expression), but the analogue is not exact since castration destroys both sexual and procreative capacity, which female circumcision (which I think is the usual if less than wholly accurate term)does not.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 11:32 PM

Actually Leagle Eagle, you are right, except that rather than call it circumcision, the preferred term and most often used now is Female Genital Mutilation, which is really what it amounts to. I couldn't remember that term and castration just seemed the strongest word I could think of at the moment to express how strongly I felt about it.

Thanks for pointing that out.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 03:02 AM

Slavery is still an issue. I haven't blue clicked this, short of time. http://www.charitynet.org/~asi/

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 03:06 AM

Also here.

http://www.chanel1.com/AASG/index.html

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 03:31 AM

And a few more.

www.erols.com/bcccsbs/bass/support.htm I haven't been into this site, as my nanny program filtered it. It's a society in Baltimore.

http://www.cwa.tnet.co.th/v14-2/cv14n28.htm

http://www.littlejunior.org/Freedom.html

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Craig
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 12:59 AM

Just to throw my two cents worth in. My mother was Ukrainian and my father (from what I have been told) was English with some Indian blood in him from upstate New York. Possibly Mohawk. I'm not to sure on that since he died when I was very young and the family has always been pretty hazy on his background.

Craig

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 12:10 PM

Would it be inaccurate to say most of us are miscegenetic?

Regards, Neil (like a kid who has just learned a new trick):-D

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: cleod
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 01:09 PM

I'm Chinese (ancestors from Xiamen, China). Gosh! What am I doing here? ^_^ Seriously, I love celtic music even if it's hard to find in the Philippines. Actually, I've noticed that some Irish songs have the same tonality (not sure about the term) as classic Chinese melodies, though I'm ashamed to admit that I lean towards the celtic more. ^_^*

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mark Roffe
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 01:46 PM

My friend Al and I scratch our heads at this:

MY family has been in the US since c. 1909. My grandparents emigrated from Russia and Romania.

HIS family has been in the US since c. 1780. His ancestors were brought over from Africa as slaves, and ended up in New Orleans.

MY family are the newcomers, mostly of Russian/Romanian stock.
HIS family have been here much longer, with interesting Cajun intermarriages. None of them have been to Africa for generations.

Then why is MY family popularly known as "Americans," and HIS family popularly known as "African-Americans?"


Bark Woof

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 04:23 PM

Until my daughter married a man from Anitgua, I always thought African-American was the politically correct term to denote a person of colour; but he is not American and definitely not black, more of a gorgeous mahogany, so....I just say he is Antiguan.

You make a very good point, Mark. Sherman Alexie, author of several superb Native American books and the movie "Smoke Signals" (well worth seeing), thinks Native American is a guilty white man's term, so he calls himself an Indian.

I suppose, if one wants to be totally pc and not offend, one would have to say, American of Irish or African or whatever ancestry

Cleod, Welcome to the Mudcat! When I first read your nickname, I figured you were Scottish, for sure! I love traditional Chinese music. I understand what you mean about the similarities. This also is true with Native American music. One time, I was on the phone, with a NA flute tape on in the background. The caller asked me the name of the "Irish" tape I had on. She was very surprised when I told her it was Native American.

Join us, there are wonderful and helpful folk on here, always ready to welcome a new "Mudcateer".

Katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fadac
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 04:39 PM

Cleod, I'm a member of the MacFarlan Clan. We have one member that is closer to the Scottish MacFarlans than I am. He's from the Philippines! Well his mother is Scotts/Irish, His father is Philippinno, but he looks like a Moui (sp?) Warrior, 6' tall and about 220 lbs. He loves to make lumpia, I love to eat lumpia, so we have a good deal.

However to honor all of his ancestors, we call him, Mike, the Mick, Flip, The Kilted, maker of the Loopie, Poopie. He loves the title.

We also have some very black MacFarlans. Some going back many years. It seems that the Spanish Armada, had black slaves aboard. When the ships were wrecked, some of the blacks made it ashore. The Clans told them, "Well, we can't send you home, but if you want your welcome to stay here." Some did. They paid homage to the Clan Chief and disapeared into history.

BTW. Some of the Scotts brought to the New World as slaves, ran away, and joind the Indians. The Indian chief would tell them. "We can't send you home to Scotland, but if you will live by our rules, your welcome to join us." Some did, that's why from time to time, you will find blond, blue eyed Indians.

These things happen.

-Fadac

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 03:08 AM

katlaughing,
cleod has been here since ages, longer than most of us. So a 'welcome back' is the phrase of the choice.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Folksie Lady
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 05:01 AM

Fascinating thread, as those on Mudcat are wont to be!

I'm an American of Danish and Austrian descent; both sides of the family have not been here more than a few generations. I'm married to a man who is ethnically Taiwanese but is a citizen of Fiji. Sad to say, we don't have kids, but they would join the stew/pot/mosaic (my own favorite word for this ethnic mix) and find their own identities if we did.

I do love Scandinavian folk music but that interest has come about during more recent years. My first love in folk was, and always will be, American folk music. Both the kind imported through the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic tradition and the home-grown variety. The latter is probably my favorite type of all.

Kat, as you know I'm mighty interested in women's issues and songs about them. Y'know, I've tried to do a forum search on words like "feminism" and "women's songs" but it always times out after 60 seconds and I can't get anywhere. :( Can anyone offer some suggestions?

Oh, I'm a blues lover too.

Folksie

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 01:51 PM

My Dad sings this song....

The funny little Ogo Pogo
The funny little Ogo Pogo
His Mother was an earwig
His Father was a whale
and I'm going to put a little salt on his tail
and the Lord Mayor of London
the Lord Mayor of London
the Lord Mayor of London
wants to put him in the Lord Mayor's Show.

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 09:36 PM

Wolfgang, thanks a lot. Cleod, sorry I didn't know that! welcome back!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 10:41 PM

Jumping in, late but not forgotten:

On my father's side as far back as I have information, the Philpotts of Gloucester, England; the Thomassons in the 1700s, from Scotland, it's believed; they came to the U.S. and one married Sara Crop, a Cherokee. A Paxton, also from "the British Isles," according to a family history, came in the picture about that time and married a Shoot-Gunn, a Cherokee. In the early 1800s, another ancestor, Stefan Fredrick, a Frenchman called the "Little Black Bear" in Tennessee history, married a Elizabeth Cotton, ancestry unknown. Their offspring married into the Eddings family -- and we have absolutely no information as to the Eddings lineage. Anyone ever hear of that last name?

Though Compton, my last name, is apparently English, all the family records are from Scotland -- way back to the 1700s, so I don't know what that's about. My mother's family, the Whetstones, is similarly mixed up, with the family tree littered with Stricklands, Steeles, MacCubbins and McGraths. And a Soward, who was allegedly Choctaw. So, when one asks me my family heritage, the best I can do is "Mongrel, American style." Once I went away to college and met people of various ethic groups, I wished so much to be "ethnic." A man in a store yesterday, whom I had met on a previous occasion, apologized for not remembering me, and said it was because my face was "so common." Uh... I guess this means I could commit crimes with a good chance of a getaway, huh? ("Well,officer, she was about five feet, five inches tall, medium build, medium hair, medium eye color and, well, a very common face....") KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Paul Jay
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 11:02 PM

This is an amazing thread. I am-I think- 1/2 Irish and 1/2 Jewish and grew up in Arkansas. I play any kind of music I like(which is most kids of folk music). The "I Think" comes from the fact that I am adopted. I used to get a little jealous when people started spouting off their blood lines, but I quickly came to realize what a wonderful family I had been made a part of. It was also very neat to have gotten out of some of those High School Biology assignments in geneoligy.

I guess I would like all the 'Catters that can trace their family back 100 years or 1200 years to be thankful of the care there must have been to sucessfully nurture all those children to adulthood so "we" could be here and make music.

Another thing I would like to comment on is how fortunate those of us are who live in the U.S. I teach in a Community College where there are many different ethnic, racial,and religious backgrounds. Sometimes I have students from two backgrounds that are slaughtering each other in their homelands and they are friends (or at least work well together) here. I think that says a lot for our good ole "Melting Pot"

As they say on another thread, slante!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 09:20 AM

With all these family histories I wonder who's going to be the first to find that a long lost relative is also a Muddie?

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 10:08 AM

KC - you'll like this, being American. Compton is most certainly an English surname, of the type denoting a place of origin. There are Compton (places) in Sussex, Hampshire, Devon, Surrey and Berkshire, all very much in the South East. However, it's the family name of the Earls and Marquesses of Northampton, who (logically enough - NOT!) live in Oxfordshire, the family home being a beautiful house called Compton Wynyates. You should drop round sometime, the current Marquess is called Spencer Compton, he's a Buddhist, and a top bloke. Tell him Dai sent you.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:09 AM

Funny you should say that, Bert. There's someone in this thread who's probably kin to my my kin, and I was about to submit a posting to that effect when the computer cut me off. So I decided that, this being public and all, maybe my folks wouldn't like me to, and that was the way fate was stopping me doing so. It would be very distant, anyway, so it's not worth trying to find out who...

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:24 AM

It's a small world. It had to happen.

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 11:26 AM

I once went sailing with Pete M, too. He hasn't posted since he knew that for certain.

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: cleod
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 02:42 PM

katlaughing and wolfgang: thanks! i have been gone for a very long time...

and yes, my nick is scottish, but that's just due to wishful thinking...i'd love to be scottish, and i have a friend (equally chinese) who desperately longs to be irish.

i wonder if it's possible to get adopted by a clan?

fadac: lumpia is one of my favorite foods! ^_^ also, i think you mean Maori (the tribal guys from new zealand)? I also have another friend who's grandfather (i forget w/c side) was a McStay (i think). the rest of her line is chinese and spanish.

Mabuhay!
cleod

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 03:31 PM

Cleod, aren't we diverse enough - you have to 'pretend' to be more diverse - that sounds like a good Mudcatter to me!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 04:24 PM

Bert, you are absolutely right. It had to happen. There's a mathematical theory about it, not unlike the Kevin Bacon game, about the small number of steps required to connect people. Not being a mathematician, the details escape me. (I can visualise the diagram, but that's as far as it goes!)

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 04:29 PM

skarpi, come on, tell us, your ancestors have come from Norway or Denmark to Iceland in the late 10th century?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 12:46 AM

Dai, thanks. I'm actually planning a trip to the other side of the pond next summer, with the intention of looking up some of the family places, if not the actual family. I don't know how most people would feel about a long-lost cousin from Wyoming, America, showing up on their doorstop, cowboy hat and geneology chart in hand. but seeing the places my people came from so many years ago would be amazing.

KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Obloquy67
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 01:56 AM

I'm an American when asked, but of Irish descent on all sides. Besides that obvious musical history, there was also, on my mother's side, a great deal of French-Canadian influence (from Vermont, where I guess their shared belief in Catholicism bound their communities). In the course of your "survey" keep in mind that the Web is much less ethnically diverse than the United States, and perhaps so in other countries as well.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 03:37 AM

Gosh Penny, that must have been one hell of a sailboat ride!
I always got a kick out of the wine making clan MacLopez in Hamish MacBeath.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 04:57 AM

Compton is a placename meaning valley farm. The valley element is the same as cwm in Welsh. And the boundaries between England/Wales and England/Scotland were, for most of the history, very fuzzy indeed, and certainly remain fuzzy as far as people's movement and settlement goes.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: lloyd61
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 06:21 AM

Second Generation Norwegian .

The answer to many of our problems in America will be found in merging our diversity. We are the last of the blond, blue eyed Americans. The "Times" call it the "Browning of America" If it builds a stronger, more loving Nation I welcome it.

Lloyd

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: George
Date: 19 Jun 99 - 08:08 AM

We are all first and foremost Americans. I am second generation Italian. Combat veteran of the Korean war. I am tired of the seeing catagorizations such as Italian-Americans Mexican-Americans, etc, ad infinitum. Since I am of Italian extract, would you please type real slow so I can understand.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From:
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 08:26 PM

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 26 Jun 99 - 11:59 PM

Dai-- Just got back to this thread. Thanks for the info. I'll be certain to pop in on Mr. Spencer Compton when I 'm in England next summer and give him your regards.

Penny -- I absolutely never knew Compton meant anything more than ... well, Compton. A valley farm, heh? No wonder I feel so comfy out here in the middle of nowhere.

I wish I had the time, or the money to hire someone who had the time, to do an actual geneology on both sides of my family. One regret I have is that, being an American mutt, I really don't have any sense of roots. I barely knew even my grandparents, and certainly never lived anywhere that was home. I'm still thinking that someday I'll find someplace that feels truly like home. My luck, it'll be Scotland or Alaska or someplace a zillion miles from everyone I know...

KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: bbelle
Date: 27 Jun 99 - 01:07 AM

On my mother's side, I am English. On my father's side, I am French and Sephardic Jew from Ireland. The story goes that my paternal grandmother's ancestors moved from North Africa to Spain; left Spain during the Spanish Inquisition for Ireland and then immigrated to Johnston County, North Carolina. I have always identified with my Sephardic Jewish blood. Neither of my two younger sisters have chosen this path, so holidays are interesting. moonchild

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 12:04 PM

On my father's side of the family, (Clark, by the way, is my last name.) it is said we are of Flemish descent by way of England and eventually Texas (although I was actually born in California). However, I have been told by a number of Native Americans that there has got to be a mix-up someplace because, they say, I "look Indian". Dad's people were poor, dirt-farmers. They had come to the West from Virginia and had had bad luck with farming first in Oklahoma and then in Arkansas. Ultimately, my grandfather married and purchased a small, dusty farm near Ft. Worth, Texas. My father, the last of four children was born in a small room above a tiny store at a crossroads which was surrounded by cotton fields. My grandmother had been picking cotton only an hour before he was born. Grandpa couldn't make a go of it with farming. He became an auto mechanic at about the time his wife died, (my father was six). Grandpa was also an inventor. He invented, but unfortunately sold the rights (for $100) to an automobile battery clamp - like the kind which has been used ever since then.

On my mother's side, there is far more historical information. My great, great grandfather Roche was a "founding father" of the town of Alez (now spelled, Ales - My keyboard is not set up to type in French. Please forgive the lack of proper accents, etc.) in the south of France. He ran a tannery there. He was friends with a Marquis de Jirardin. The Marquis feared for the life of his daughter during the revolution and asked if my great, great grandfather could provide a safe place for her. The Marquis was killed. The daughter, Fostine, was brought up like a family member. Eventually, she actually became one. She married one of the sons, Ciprien. Ciprien had previously been a priest in the area around Nimes. He became disillusioned with the Church and left the priesthood to join the army. He was highly decorated and later served as a member of Napoleon's honor guard. Some years later there was the difficulty involving the Hugonaughts which resulted in Ciprien's and Fostine's decision to leave France and to come to America. Part of their decision, I am sure, had to do with where they wanted their children to be born. They had already conceived a child by then. They settled in St. Louis and once owned a pretty good sized piece of what is now part of downtown. Their daughter, Adele, was born there. I don't know whether they suffered financial problems or what; but for some reason, they left Missouri and moved to a blue-bonnet covered farm west of Dallas, Texas. Adele eventually married a cabinet-maker named Robert Ulysses Lacy and moved to San Antonio. She gave birth to a son, (also Robert Ulysses,) then a daughter, Hope, and then to a premature baby which nobody thought would live. Although her given name is Thelma Margaret, she was always known by family members as "Tiny". She is my mother.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 12:35 PM

KC, wherever you go, you know that Mudcat is now your 'real' home.

Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: annamill
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 01:29 PM

KC,

I know the feeling of never having roots. My family was definitely what can be described as disfunctional. My Mom and Dad split when I was about 14, but life before that was no picnic as they fought constantly. Life was hell with them (no pity please, I'm fine now). They're splitting was the best for all of we children. I went to 11 different grammer schools (now called elementary) and 4 different high schools. We moved from place to place to place. I never had that feeling of "home".

I've dealt with this situation differently than most. I don't see it as a negative, but actually as a positive, and I am not compensating.

Atributes that I now have are directly contributable to my home situation. I am strongly independent, a self thinker, not afraid of change, in fact I welcome it. As I was first born, I grew up vertually alone and became extremely resourceful and creative. I'm always free, never being tied down to property, or any particular lifestyle. I'm always going out of my way to try new things. I think if I found a "home" it would bore me to death. Right now I'm happy where I am, but I may become bored and want to move to Southern California, or Borneo ;-)

This has nothing whatsoever to do with how I treat relationships. I am a one man woman and though I love the freedom of being single, once I find someone worthy (to me anyway) to give up that freedom, I'm devoted to him. (My honey) He has to understand who I am though.

KC, may I ask you, does any of this make sense to you? Are you independent, a free thinker, creative, open to change? Then maybe you, like me, have gained something from the past. Maybe, though, you haven't reacted the way I did. Maybe you need and miss that stability. There is a lot to be said for stability in your life. Everyone's needs are different.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 03:18 PM

I was raised as a Navy brat. We moved more often than I want to think about. Many, many different schools and many, many friends were left behind. I, like you, Anna, became "extremely resourceful and creative" as well as "not afraid of change". In fact, I have become so adaptable that I can handle nearly any kind of change fairly well. My girlfriend calls me "chameleonic". But I have been around many other Navy brats and others who were raised in families which moved a lot. There seems to be three groups: those who adapted, those who didn't, and those who not only didn't but fought any change that came. I hold that the ones who learned to adapt developed other ancillary powers which have helped them to be strong as well as to be able to make new friends more easily than the other two groups. Has anyone else noticed this?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mbo
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 07:45 PM

My background is rather diverse. I'm 3rd generation Italian on my mother's side, about 20% German (my ancestors were Pennsylvania coal miners for more that 100 years), 40% English and 10% "The Duke's Mix" which is a combo of Irish, Scottish and Welsh. Incidently, thats the part of my heritage that has come to the forefront, as I am a Celtic music buff and aspiring Celtic music singer! By the way-- has anyone else heard of the term "The Duke Mix?" No one seems to remember where my great-grandfather came from in the U.S., and the only key to his genealogical background was this word he used for it. I'd been interested in anyone can help!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: bbelle
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 10:18 PM

Allan C. ... I, too, am a Navy brat. Until age 15, when my father retired from the Navy, I had never lived anywhere longer than 18 months. I am a rover and have never understood the people who say, with pride, that they have lived in the same house, same town, etc. all their lives. I can physically feel the boredom creeping in. In addition, I am the oldest of three daughters. I am fiercely independent and described as one who "dances to her own tune." I take responsibility for all the areas of my life and have little patience with those who don't. In some aspects, I'm staunchly intolerant, however, in many areas I'm exceedingly empathetic. I've been engaged five times and have been so deeply in love that it hurt, however, the thought of being married or living all the time with someone else in the house causes a panic attack which starts at my toes and works its way upward. The same thing with owning a home. My father is always trying to coerce me into buying a house and I cannot stand the thought of being tied down to something material. (Just writing it makes my chest tight!)

Annap ... I understand all too well disfunctional families. I was always very proud of the fact that my parents were still married and together, although they argued and my father was very demeaning; then my bubble burst when my parents divorce was final on my 40th birthday.

I've now told you far more than I ever intended, but I'm feeling particularly vulnerable tonight and really needed to pound my keyboard! Funny how I can write it but I cannot say it! moonchild

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From:
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 10:37 PM

Moonchild and Allen and anyone else for that matter,

It's interesting that I'm not the only one who recognizes the freedom and independence thats formed from constant disruption in our lives. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?? I don't think I would want to trade this independence, even for the feeling of security stability gives you. As I've said in other threads, I've seen and done things most people only dream about. I had seen most of this country by the time I was 20. Then hitchhiking was acceptable and I made the most of it. I'm going to die a satisfied person. I'm having (I almost said "had a good life") a wonderful life. I could use another hundred years to do all the things I'd still like to do, oh well.. don't we all.

PS: I'm looking at a Harley Sportster 1000cc.

Boy, talk about thread creep.

Love,annap

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rita64
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 11:08 PM

While growing up in Sydney Australia my grandmother attended a Roman Catholic girls' school, mixed with only Anglo-Celtic Catholic people and believed (and still believes, much to my distress) in the "White Australia Policy" for non-white Australians, ie that Aboriginal Australians should be immersed in "our" culture.

Quite a different background to her grand-daughter (me) who, 50 years later, attended school in the same Sydney area with Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Muslim, Lutheran, Buddhist, Atheist children of Chinese, Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, Croatian, Italian, Greek, Maori, Slav, Lebanese, Egyptian, African (and mixtures thereof) parents ... who all learned together and played together in harmony most of the time despite different culture and heritage.

Sydney is amazing - the fabulous "melting pot" of Australia.

FYM

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:19 AM

Well, I was an oilfield brat, on the tailend of five, so only moved a few times. Mom and dad owned their first home when I was in grade school.

I've moved a lot with my kids, from Colorado to Wyoming to Massachusetts, to Connecticut and back to Wyoming and I, fro one, am tired of moving about and ready to own our own home. Mostly I am tired of renting.

I don't necessarily want to stay put all of the time, but one of my "jobs" is family archivist and I've a lot of precious papers etc. of historical signifigance to family and Colorado history, so what I'd like is my own place to park it all. Then I'd be happy to take off now and then, with Rog in his travel trailer, the Pumpkin Shell, and go explore parts unknown.

BTW: thanks, again, to everyone who has posted to this thread. I think it has been wonderful and very interesting.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:27 AM

Bert -- that was so kind. Thank you very much. It's true that home really is more in the hearts of people than any geographic location.

AnnaP -- as you were writing that first bit about being "strongly independent, a self-thinker, not afraid of change ... extremely resourceful and creative..." and so forth, I was thinking, "Geez, she's been reading MY mail." I'd say all of those apply to me, so I definitely think I've benefited from whatever shaped me.

Three years ago, I took a job up here in Wyoming and left a perfectly good job, group of friends, etc. in Santa Fe to move here. No one could understand why I'd DO that, and many, many people projected madly on me their own fear of change and uprooting themselves. I was a bit intimidated about moving across country to a community where I knew NO one, at the tender age of 47, but ... well, I guess I've just never felt that tied to one particular location. I mean, if you don't go over that next hill, how do you know what's waiting out there?

And the experience has been pretty amazing. I'm as home here as I've ever been, and I still don't know if it's my "final resting place..." I haven't really moved around that much, but I've certainly never been paralyzed by fear at taking that next step. I'm just mystified about what my next one will be!

KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Allan C.
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 07:57 AM

Moonchild, FYM, Anna, KC and the rest of you,

One of the side effects of moving so often (I stopped counting at 22 major moves) is that every couple of years or so I get an almost unresistable urge to move on. I, too, marvel at folks who have never been out of the county. (Yes, I spelled it right - COUNTY!) There are even people who know nearly everyone in their neighborhood! I have actually met folks who know (and would recognize on the street) almost all of their relatives. I can't imagine what that might be like.

I am probably closer to having put down roots now than I have ever been in my life. I would, as a friend so aptly describes, "rather have a poke in the eye with a sharp stick" than to go through the business of moving. Still, that hill KC mentions could quite possibly hold the promise of an even better life. Maybe that is the same reason my ancestors left England or France, or even Missouri, or Oklahoma. Gosh! I need to think about this...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 08:08 AM

Mbo--

"Duke's Mix" was a fairly common term in my part of the country, and took its name from a particularly popular brand of tobacco called Dukes' Mixture. Its boast that it was a masterful blend of domestic and imported tobaccos apparently made it a useful metaphor for the rather peculiar national and racial backgrounds of the folks in that area. The term is still used among the older folks in the Appalachians, but I suspect that it is not being taken up as a term by the younger generations.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 10:19 AM

Bill -- I've actually heard my dad and mom use that term to describe our tribe. "A masterful blend of domestic and imported" pretty well encapsulates my heritage.

KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 10:36 AM

Every time I come to this thread on the list, I think it says, "how ethically diverse are we"...Maybe we can now run this up to 200 or so...

Art

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 01 Jul 99 - 11:29 AM

KC - Mr. Spencer Compton !!!? <G> enough to get you clapped in the Tower. He's a Marquess, so please be so kind to address him as 'Your Grace', although 'Sir' would pass muster in times of dire need, as would 'My Lord Northampton'. 'Bignose', for example, is right out, as are 'Spence', 'Copmty-baby' and 'Snuggles'.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mike Strobel
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 08:26 AM

From me Mom's side, Irish........her family from County Cork and County Clare,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,From my Father's side; German........with his family coming from County Munich.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: amo
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 02:00 PM

It seems that germans do not move very far. I'm just German (just?) and I don't now any different ancestors.

amo

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 03:03 PM

Bill.

Thank you for the explanation of 'Duke's Mix'. I had this thought of it being a collection of Duke Ellington compositions, re-mixed by one of those dance DJ's.

I hope I have not given anyone any ideas! Or does such a thing exist already?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:36 PM

I had never heard of the Melungeon people before this thread, so was quite surprised to find two references tp them and their history on BBC Radio Four on Saturday morning. It was quite useful to be primed by the Mudcat.

Interesting story, isnt it?

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Rana
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 02:38 PM

Interesting thread, usually I've just considered myself human. Actually I'm a Brummie (Birmingham, England) born and breed, though my father is of Sikh background and my Mum's of Hindu background. People can be a bit surprised at my interests and activities, however.

We were just Morris Dancing in Orillia this weekend (140 km N. of Toronto) when someone came up to me and said that they thought my ancestors probably came from a long way from Ireland. No problem, I just corrected them, pointing out that Morris Dancinmg was an English folk tradition.

I will agree that immigration types can be a pain - I was delayed 2 hours by US immigration the other week who were querying why the NIH had asked me to go to Washington and that the US government had BOUGHT MY TICKET. When asked why they asked me, I replied that presumably their (US) government thought I was qualified. Well they did finally let me in. It was the beard I suppose.

Anyway, I've always felt that one's ethnic background should not dictate - thsi group is diverse but ceratinly shares common intersets and that is what counts.

Rana

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 05 Jul 99 - 08:46 PM

ONE HALF German ~~ ONE HALF a mixture of French, Indian, and English ~~ THE OTHER HALF I'M NOT SURE OF.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 12:52 AM

Dai-- Oh, that's fine. I"ve always wanted to be clapped in the Tower anyway. Just for the experience, don't cha know? We Western Women don't have much truck with all them fancy titles and such.

KC

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 02:51 PM

Isn't it odd that all these titled folk demand to be addressed as if they were God? Majesty, Grace, Highness - what does it say about the way they think of the rest of us?

Penny (Who, not being brought up where it is common to say sir and ma'am to everyone, finds even that sticks in the craw when demanded as a right. And as for Miss being the equivalent of Sir in schools - Pshaw!)

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 03:17 PM

I quite agree with you Penny. One thing that amused me greatly when I got my American Citizenship - I had to agree to relinquish all my hereditary titles.
Bert.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 03:41 PM

Mind you, I wish it did come naturally to sir and ma'am everyone. I only use them as in "Sir, I think you've dropped your car keys," and the like.

Penny

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: CarlZen
Date: 06 Jul 99 - 09:44 PM

All four grandparents were born in different parts of Denmark and somehow I ended up in California loving country blues and bluegrass and other folk-related musics, but mostly the two first-mentioned.

I do like some of the Scandinavian fiddle music I've heard, but I haven't had much opportunity to hear a lot of it. I lived in Denmark from '72 to '76 and played and heard a lot of groups. At the time there weren't too many youn Danes playing their own folk music, but they played a lot of British Isles and Amderican music. One exception was a group called "Stegt Kartoffler og ...(forgot the last word)..." They played lots of old Danish dance music.

In terms of real ethnicity, though, I appreciate Spider John's album title;

Raised by Humans.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Jul 99 - 01:24 AM

Bert, you are being too modest. Are you not in fact Sir Bertrand, Lord of Pendennis Minor, Second Earl of Clemwich,Protector of the Queen, and the true Marquesse of Malmsbury? Aha! I thought so. Your regal bearing betrays you.

His LEJliness

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Fionan
Date: 07 Jul 99 - 01:09 PM

English...that's all, as far as I'm aware!.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 04:10 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 06:01 PM

My Mom was from Romania
My Dad was from Poland
I was raised & groomed to become a Canadian Jewish Princess
The plan failed

BB

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Stewie
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 06:37 PM

I'm Australian. My father was born in Glasgow and came to Australia with his parents when he was 12. My mother was born in Australia and her parents came from County Galway.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: MiloBOB
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 10:42 PM

I'm 100% Serb. Not much demand for Serbian folk singers these days, so I play mostly Irish music.

P.S. DADGAD is good for Balkan songs too.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 03:27 AM

I am with The Shambles on this one!

For those who are interested predominantly Irish with a smidgeon of English and Spanish!

mcmoo

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 03:44 AM

Hungarian, Scottish and English

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 05:27 AM

I can pretty much ditto Bonedaddy as a Dutch/English Floridian. Recently had my name Americanised (?)by the Mudcat registration office.

Still Frankie

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: IceWolf
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:32 AM

Well...

An interesting thread, to say the least. Or, more properly, collection of threads.

On my Dad's side, family legend has it that we are line descendents (albeit on the wrong side of the sheets) of the Draculas. On my mother's side, we're a mix of German peasant, Black-irish, and Welsh, with the latter being the most recent; her grandparents came over from Caernafon.

Musically, I like British (incl Irish, Welsh, and Scottish) and American folk. There's also a, um, bastard child of folk called "filk" which I throroughly enjoy.

With regards to self description: when someone asks me what I am, I say "Human". This reminds me of a story from my days in the Army. My platoon was about half black, one fourth hispanic, and the rest white / other (judging by appearances only). First day of Boot Camp, our Drill Sergeants are giving us a big lecture on tolerance, yada yada. But the thing that stuck in my mind was the line, "We all bleed red, no matter what color our skin is."

--IceWolf

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:02 AM

Anglo Irish, on my fathers side, and Russian and Rom (Gypsy) on my mothers - so what else could I do but play music?
Larry
PS If Rana is still tuned in - drop me an e-mail at [e-mail]. In my recent past in the legal profession, before I cucked it all to get out of the muck and mire of American dog eat dog law, I had the great privelege to help on a few Shik cases, one especialy of a young man who came to the US from England for a visit and was treated horribly by the US gov. A great deal of our forign policies are both ignorent and racist. It is likely that this was behind your treatment. Please accept at least one concerned appology from a US taxpayer - mine.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:07 AM

1/4 Cherokee, the rest a mutt-mixture of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and Cantonese...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: JedMarum
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:22 AM

Irish on my Dad's side, English on my Mom's ...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: jeffp
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 10:33 AM

On my father's side it's been traced back to an ancestor who was a Norman knight sent to Scotland as a hostage to ensure a treaty would be honored. During 500 years there, a title and lands were acquired and lost, resulting in a hurried trip to America in the late 1600's. So on that side, I'm mostly Norman Scot, with a little Irish married into the mix. On my mother's side, less is known, but I think it's mostly English. There is supposedly a little German and Native American scattered in there too. Another American mutt!

My music tastes run from baroque to trad Irish, bluegrass, rock'n'roll, Andean mountain music, you name it. I'll listen to anything and try to play most of it.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: paddymac
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 02:35 PM

Like most native-born Americans, I'm "Heinz 57". Genealogically, back to Ireland on all branches on my Dad's side (Counties Fermanagh, Leitrim, Sligo, Roscommon, Cork, and probably others), but I'm 4th and 5th generation on this side of the pond. Mom's side is more complex: Irish, Native American, English & Scot discovered so far. Born & raised in the midwest, but a "naturalized" Floridian for 30+ years. I'm drawn to decent folks, irrespective of heredity, and shun arses on the same basis.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Hutzul
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 03:18 PM

Half Ukrainian - Half Slovak

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 04:01 PM

English - mothers side seem to have been Shropshire for centuries and my fathers side from Norfolk although I believe that my dads side were originaly Flemish weavers who came over I don't know how long ago and were granted the freedon of the City of Norwich and that is when the surname changed. It doesn't mean anything except keeping up an old tradition but I am a heriditary Freeman of of The City of Norwich, as is my father and my 3 brothers.

Receiving the freedom was quite an event for me and my brothers as we waited until Paul my youngest brother was 18 and entitled and went together - somehow we even managed to get free tickets to watch Norwich play Liverpool (in the posh area - behind glass and with a bar) and we won 2-1.

Jon

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 04:14 PM

My ancestors invaded England in 1066 with William the conqueror. My great grandfather fought with Sherman, my uncle fought with Patton.. we cant get along with anyone.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 04:33 PM

I have ancestors that fought on both sides of the American Revolution. Good thing they didn't hold grudges.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Magpie
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 04:42 PM

Norwegian, Norwegian, Norwegian and Norwegian. Interesting, huh?

Magpie

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: lamarca
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 05:04 PM

Wopolack. My dad's parents were from Sicily, my mom's from Poland. One of my Sicilian great-grandfathers may or may not have come north from Tunesia to Sicily - he was the dark one...My Polish grandfather came to America in 1911 to avoid being drafted into the Austrian army, but talked about those "damned draft-dodgers" during the Vietnam War. I was born in the West Point Military Academy Hospital, so I'm 100% American. (Just salute when you see me...)

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Little Dorritt
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:45 PM

My mothers family are named landowners in the domesday book and came over with William the Conqueror.My fathers family name is fairfax and we are direct descendants of Cromwell's Lord Chancellor Thomas fairfax who was a Yorkshireman. On my grandmothers side we are descended from Thomas Arne who wrote Rule Brittannia question - where did all the bloody money go???

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: gunner
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 06:52 PM

kendall, my earliest known ancestor was a norman trooper named "bartellotte" he too waded ashore with billy the bastard fought at hastings then seduced a saxon barmaid and settled down to raise a family, we've mostly worked for that well known british firm of "goforth, kilburn and robb" the last thousand years. i suggest that with the nomadic tendencies of the human race as a whole and the very well known male habit of laying any female who would hold still long enough there ain't any such thing as a "purebred" anybody, particularly when you add in the prevalence of armies and the traditional hobbies of victorious soldiers (only recently severely discouraged in "civilized" armies) of pillage looting and rape you get an almost continual stirring of the genetic pot. (look at the variations in hair colour in japanese since ww2 and the american "occupation" in what was before an almost uniform genetic pool.... and we may have done them a favor, after time a closed population almost cannot avoid inbreeding) i'd say that one possible reason we're "top dogs" in the world so far is because we are such a pack of mutts. "hybrid vigor" i've heard it called. that's one reason i view the current prattle about "celebrating diversity" with suspicion, it seems to be more like an attempt to keep "the peasants" stirred up, split up and sispiscious of each other making us easier to rule by a soi disant "elite". me, i like stew. "gunner"

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:07 PM

I cant be sure what my lineage is..all I know for sure is last Saturday night, I had considerable "scotch" in me. and, yes. I know the difference..

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:25 PM

In Ken Burns book, "The Civil War," there is a picture of Arlington Cemetery soon after the war. Clearly seen is grave #2509--a certain J.Richards, Company B?, 148th Pennsylvania, killed July 4th, 1864. I don't know who this man really was, except from the date, it points to the battle of Cold Harbor. I've always liked to think that he was a relative of mine--the Richards (on my father's side) have been German Pennsylvania coal miners for many generations, and the Christian name James is like a tradition in the family--every generation must have one child named James. It's funny, I hardly know anything about my father's side of the family, but I have this strange connection to this soldier who gave his life on our nation's birthday. I wonder if anyone else remembers #2509...

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:32 AM

My mothers family have been traced back to the Viking invaders of Shapinsay - the Orkney Islands,Scotland. Where I still have relatives living.
My Fathers family belong to the Keith Clan and were quite devious and nasty. My Dads mum was from Cork.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: GUEST,newbian
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 12:45 AM

refresh?

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:26 PM

Fascinating.

Mom is Serbian by ethnic identity only because the border moved before she was born; her parents were both Hungarian and she lived in the same house, just in a different country thanks to Balkanization. Her grandparents were Austrohungarian Jews but changed their name to something more Hungarian when the empire broke up so nobody would think they were Austrian. This turned out to be a good think when the Holocaust rolled around, as some of her relatives were not identified as Jewish since they weren't Friedmann's any more.
Dad was American, and the family name can be traced back to the 1740's in the New World. They came from Huguenot France, via England and Ireland. But my dad's MOTHER was Russian. Men in his family tend to marry foreigners, so while I was a teenager my Mom, paternal grandmother and paternal aunt (who's Puerto Rican) all had foreign accents in English. In the tree with my family name are also a Cherokee (and not TOO long ago, my grandfather could have claimed government benefits if he'd wanted to). We are also the bastard branch of the family name from way back when, some woman had one son with her last name (my ancestor) before marrying a Peterson and having another 9.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:29 PM

I'm my own grandpa.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:29 PM

But CULTURALLY I don't consider myself American, because I didn't grow up here. We lived in West Africa from my age 5-20, and through college I went either "home" to Abidjan or to Thailand, where my Dad was transferred later. I didn't start living in the US full-time till after college, and my reflexes are still foreign. I'm an expat, quoi, despite living where my passport says I'm from!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 01:33 PM

Gunner, don't disparage hybrid vigor. It's what keeps me out of hospital, since it certainly ain't my clean living!

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 07:01 PM

Hmm, cool thread. Lets see...

My father's mother's family is French-Canadian, and his father's family is Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, and Walloon, apparently. Oh, and a little bit German.

My mother's father's family is half French-Canadian and half Slovak, more or less. My mother's mother's family is Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and English.

Gets more mixed up the farther back you go... We're s'posed to be descended from Attila on my dad's side, muahaha...

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: GUEST,Merlin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 09:48 AM

Hmmmmm. Let's see. I'm 1/2 irish, the other half a blend of Scottish, Dutch, Austrian and Lithuanian. My friends tell me I look like a Leprechaun (red hair and green eyes)although Schneider is an unusual last name for a Leprechaun. My tastes in traditional music are Celtic, particularly Irish (same thing goes for my favorite myths and legends). I guess this was influenced by my mom, who is into Irish music, sort of. But also, I just think it sounds cool.

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 11:30 PM

My late father only about six years ago found out where his grandfather came from. We always assumed it was Russia, because our last name was presumed to be Russian Jewish. He researched family records and contacted distant relatives, and found out his grandfather was a Lithuanian Jewish immigrant. Don't know where dad's paternal grandmother came from - they were presumed to have met in the U.S. Dad's mother came from Austrian Jewish backgound, and on my mother's side, Russian and Polish Jewish. After doing some research on our last name, I found that it exists, with the same spelling, in Norway, as a non-Jewish name, and in Arabic countries as well. The name also can be traced to Spanish Jews. I must have had an ancestor who really "got around."

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: How ethnically diverse are we?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 11:57 PM

CR, that is really interesting! I've started a second thread as this one is getting so long, so please, everyone, add to it by clicking here. Thanks!