Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: ClaireBear
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 12:00 PM

I just heard a lovely version of this from Michael Black's CD. There's a sample with just about enough to get you the tune at the Compass Records Web site.

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: GUEST,Gary Keep
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 03:00 AM

Jeeze Claire, Small world!

Shay left me a copy of Michaels CD Saturday night, what a nice birthday surprise that was! We listened to it three times through on SUnday cleaning up, and of course Billy O'shea became hopelessly melded into my now 50 year old brain.

So I google it tonight looking for background on it and the first hit is this thread. Reading down I stumble onto Richards posts and finally yours!?!?!??

Very interesting discussion, I'll have to ask Shay if he knows where Michael learned it. Perhaps Shay picked it up in the 80s from Stan or it was one they learned at their parents sessions. Maybe somewhere out there is the evidence that would push it back past 1965. Perhaps a verse exists in one of the Shanty books from the late 1800s or early 1900s?

Great song in any time period. INteresting thread all.

Gary

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 03:15 AM

According to the liner notes on Michael's CD "There are different versions of this shanty.
It appears to be a relatively new shanty and many claim it was first sung at the Goilin Singers' Club in the 1960's in Dublin."

It's a great song, and I enjoyed hearing Michael and Shay doing it at the North Texas Irish Festival.

BTW, the rest of Michael's CD is brilliant, with fine singing and excellent instrumentation.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM

I was gonna learn this & add it to my repertoire but damn everybody's singing it, I think I'll wait another 10 years or so & then come back to this thread again. It's been an interesting trail.

Barry

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: GUEST,Lynn Noel
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 10:27 PM

Well, Barry, looks like that's true! David de la Barre and Three Sheets & co. (including us two) did such a great job of Billy O'Shea at the Press Room about six hours after you posted this, that I had to come looking for the words to sing at the MIT Chantey Sing tomorrow and found this thread.

I hope Dan Milner appreciates that the song has circled around to Boston again, since Barry first introduced me to Shay Walker about ten years ago during one of our periodic efforts to start a chantey/pub sing--which have since resurfaced as the Press Room and MIT sings. I hope to bring it to the Gloucester Hornpipe & Clog Society, since we're always looking for Irish maritime stuff. Ten-year-long threads are one thing I love about Mudcat!

Slainte,
Lynn Noel

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/NE_ChanteySings/

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 01:14 PM

The song has become iconic for us. As many of you know, we opened our last CD with it. The crowd's now expect us to start every concert with it. They all start clappin', I launch into it, and we seque direcly into an instrumental from it, Whiskey Before Breakfast/Soldiers Joy. The crowd sings right along. We loved Dan Milner's version and based our arrangement on his.

Mick

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Feadan
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM

Dan Milner was kind enough to give me missing lyrics a couple of years ago. Here they are as passed on to Lynn N. last evening:

Billy O'Shea_____________

from the singing of Dan Milner


Oh, we all got drunk in Dublin City,
All down me Billies,
We all got drunk in Dublin City,
All down Billy O'Shea.

(Chorus)

All down, all down,
All down me Billies,
All down, all down by Dublin City,
All down Billy O'Shea.


St. Patrick was a roamin' sailor,
All down me Billies,
He had a Pater and a Mater,
All down Billy O'Shea.
He sailed around by the Gloucester Diamond,
All down me Billies,
And he drove the snakes all out of Ireland.
All down Billy O'Shea                         ……………………Chorus

I'll sing you a song of the Blackball Line, boys,
That's the line where I wasted me prime, boys,
There was tinkers and tailors and fakers all, boys,
They shipped us A.B.s aboard the Blackball.        …………………Chorus

Just take a trip to Liverpool, boys,
Liverpool that packet school, boys,
Yankee sailors you'll see there, boys,
With their red-topped boots and short-cut hair, boys. …Chorus

Santander Jim was the mate from Hell, boys,
with his fists or iron and feet as well, boys,
Its "Foretop halyards!" he does roar, boys,
And, "Ye lay aloft Mick, ye a son of a whore!", boys. …Chorus x2

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:06 PM

Other than the order of verses, and a few lyric differences , that is the version we sing. We got it directly from Dan, as well. Wonderful song. If you see Dan anytime soon, please send him my regards.

Mick

Subject: RE: Origins: Shanty: Billy O'Shea
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

Feadan, thanks.

I'm very pleased to see the version how Dan Milner sings it. My transcription (see far above) was full of gaps.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,stuart smyth
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:09 PM

The song was written by Iain McCarthy, Dublin in or around '63 or '64.

Iain gave the song to Dave Smyth, Dublin (then medical photographer and one of the founders of the Coffee Kitchen tradition club - roughly as per a previous post - also former member of The Press Gang).

At that time Dave was in a group with Pearse McAuliffe and Derrig Monks called "The Buskers". They recorded the song in "65 and I will send a link to the track soon.

Signed

Stuart Smyth (son of David)

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:21 PM

Nailed at last! Tom Crean, who sang with The Press Gang, always thought Dave had written it.

I haven't heard of Iain before but will make some enquiries.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,stuart smyth
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 04:48 AM

Iain was a really good copywriter in McConnell's Advertising. As far as I know he invented "Aul' Mr Brennan", the Dublin baker, who plugs his bread on TV and radio to this day..!

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 04:51 AM

Thanks for the info, Stuart.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 11:47 AM

How about that!

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,stuart
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 04:43 PM

Here is a bit more information on Iain, the writer of the famous song, who unfortunately is quite ill I understand. Iain is the father of my five cousins, Aisling, Niall, Tilde, Ailbhe and Donagh McCarthy.

Iain MacCárthaigh is one of Ireland's most experienced copywriters and promotional strategists. He has written for both major Irish political parties; for the Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Finance, and Industry & Commerce, and for the European Union.
Corporate and brand campaigns he created include such diverse institutions as Aer Lingus, Bank of Ireland, Cement-Roadstone Holdings, Dunlop, Eagle Star, Guinness, ICI, Irish Tourist Board, Siemens Nixdorf Computers, RTÉ (national TV and radio), Renault, Shell, VG and Williams & Humbert.
Originally a journalist, Iain was a PR executive with the Irish Tourist Board before switching to advertising. He was a founder-member of the Public Relations Institute of Ireland and is a Past President of the Institute of Creative Advertising and Design. Iain is Couchman's primary creative consultant.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 04:59 PM

Thanks for that, Stuart. Make sure he knows how far his song has travelled!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,stuart smyth
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 09:23 AM

This is a link to the first ever recording of Billy O'Shea by "The Buskers", recorded in 1965. The writer Iain MacCarthaigh presented them with the song as he thought it would suit them.

They sang it in the early to mid sixties in The Neptune Rowing Club, Dublin amongst other places...

Click here

This was for a demo, and the reel-to-reel tape was wearing a bit thin, but it's ok...

Dave Smyth: vocals and guitar
Pearse McAuliffe and Derrig Monks: backing vocals

Feedback welcome via mudcat, or email: [e-mail]

Best wishes

Stuart

---------link fixed. JoeClone-------------

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Stuart smyth
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 03:36 PM

I was not using the mudcat linkmaker correctly. I think it's ok now. Click the link below for the song.
Thanks

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/556038/billy_oshea.m4a

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: Fergie
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 07:45 PM

Ah ha, well done Stuart
Yes Martin, 14 years and it's finally nailed. I'll bring this thread and Stuart Smyth's link to the attention of; Tom Crean, Jerry O'Reilly, Barry Gleeson and to the great exponent of this song Luke Cheevers

Fergus

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 05:01 AM

Fergie

I reckon Luke will enjoy the "Aul' Mister Brennan" connection!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Mike O'Leary-Johns.........guest.
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:01 AM

Hello Martin , I recall we were talking about this song/Shanty walking through Dublin on the Sunday morning of the Festival{Sept {Frank's festival}.We spoke of many songs ,"origins of".
You gave me some interesting information that day.
The "End Story" for Billy O'shea is good to reach.
As the saying goes..... Every Thing Comes to he who waits.
But it helps to shorten the process whe you have many hands to the sheets.By the way I hope you are keeping well...........
Mike O'Leary-Johns.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:09 AM

Hi Mike

Yeah - nice to see this one pinned down. Great song - and Fergie is right, Luke does a particularly fine job of it!

We're fine - hoping to get to Inishowen in March to kick start the singing year...

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 10:42 AM

Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread; and especially to Stuart Smyth for attributing it to Iain MacCarthaigh and providing the recording. It was very interesting to listen to, because I see that the version I learned (from someone from Dublin) has been subject to the drift of 'the folk process'. The tune I learned is the same, but I heard it sung quite a bit faster, and there's an addition of a chorus (not on the recording), and the story has been retold so that it is the captain who is killed, rather than one of the men taken on board. In essence, it's kind of morphed into a drinking song, and isn't too bad for all that. Having now heard the original words in the recording, I have to admit that I plan on sticking to the retold story - just because I tend to stick to singing things as I learned them, keeping to the idea of the folk process being an original sing.

I thought I'd just throw the words that I sing into the thread, not to claim they're 'authentic', but just because the variation from the recorded version may be interesting to some people.

Billy O'Shea (Dublin song, in the style of a long-haul shanty)

Well, we all got drunk in Dublin city
Fall down me Billy!
Well we all got drunk and more's the pity
Fall down Billy O'Shea!

Chorus:        And it's fall down, fall down,
       Fall down me Billy!
        And we'll all get drunk in Dublin city
        Fall down Billy O'Shea!

We lay ourselves down on Rogerson's Quay
Fall down me Billy!
And when we awoke we were out at sea
Fall down Billy O'Shea!

We are not sailors, captain dear
Fall down me Billy!
We come from land and we won't work here
Fall down Billy O'Shea!

So we swung him up to the topmast yard
Fall down me Billy!
Well he hit the deck, and he hit it hard
Fall down Billy O'Shea!

And we wrapped him up in a big white sheet
Fall down me Billy!
Threw him overboard for the sharks to eat
Fall down Billy O'Shea!

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Richard I
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

Above was from me, I've just re-read it, and I haven't a clue what I meant when I say "the folk process being an original sing"! Answers on the back of a postcard.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 07:11 PM

Stuart, this is absolutely brilliant! As someone who has been listening to this song for about 40years its nice to know who is responsible. I remember my brother in law, the late Tom Munnelly, singing it for a long number of years and not being sure who was the originator. Dave was (and is, I'm sure still!) a superb singer. I remember himself and Derrig Monks in the back lounge of O'Donoghues and The Neptune.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Derek Sarjeant
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 12:13 PM

Hi Stuart, Upon browsing Mudcat Cafe Forum noticed your letters re. origins of Billy O'Shea.Your comments brought back great memories. I met your Father - Dave back in 1962. I booked him at Battersea Folkclub and a few times at Surbiton & Kingston Folkclub. He was a great performer and introduced many of our members and myself to unforgettable versions of Dublin Street Ballads. I have in my collection a couple of nice Photos of Dave and Derrig Monks performing at a Christmas Concert I held at The Assembly Rooms Surbiton 13/12/1963. They appeared alongside Alex Campell, Diz Disley and Nadia Cattouse. At a party in London Dolly MacMahon encouraged me to sing at the Kilrush Fleadh in August 1963 She also arranged for an interview by Ciaran MacMathuna for Radio Eireann . Dave Smyth booked me at his Folkclub at the Coffee Kitchen.The club was packed and floor singers included Archie Fisher, Liam and Tommy Clancy, Luke Kelly and The Corries all had been at The Fleadh.I don't remember much of the session but I do remember that it carried on at Eric Farren's house until breakfast time. I've often wondered what had happened to Dave and Derrig. Please say Hello from me - my Email address is on my website.

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Davy J
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 09:22 AM

Here's the proper words, as sung in Kernow!!


Billy O'Shea

We all got drunk in Dublin City
    Fall down me Billy
We all got drunk and the more's the pity
    Fall down Billy O'Shea

We lay ourselves down on Rogerson's Quay
    Fall............
And when we woke up we were out to sea
    Fall............

We are no sailors Captain dear
And a bit unhappy to reef or steer

The Captain said, ""I've a cure for that
And here for a start is a dose of the cat.""

He sent him up to the topmast yard
When he hit the deck he took it hard

We wrapped him up in the canvas sail
    Farewell me Billy
And we lowered him gently o'er the rail
    Farewell Billy O'Shea

Over the side and down he goes
    Farewell...............
He's gone to Davy Jones with a stitch through his nose
    Farewell...............

Farewell, farewell, farewell me Billy
For I am bound for Americay.

as heard from Tom Munnelly
MR
OCT98

Subject: RE: Origins: Billy O'Shea (shanty)
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 06:52 PM

The “MR” in that original Digital Tradition posting was yours truly.

Regards