playing chords on the English Concertina

Subject: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 06:29 PM

I advise beginners to ignore videos that advocate playing two notes[fifth apart]with one finger.it is a limiting technique.
I do it occasionally ,but generally prefer to play each note of a chord,and each button with one finger.
you can then play a legato chord without having to remove a finger,example, left hand side C root position chord.
if you use the method I advocate,you can play C, ADD E,then ADD G,holding all the notes on,this is impossible with any other method.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: GUEST,JeffB
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 10:16 AM

Sorry Cap'n, that's gone over my head. Could you explain that again please? Is that L index finger on C, then L middle finger onto E, but then the L index has to move to get onto G. Surely you do need that index finger to play the G/C fifth if you want the triad.

Doesn't using two fingers for 5ths slow down your playing a lot?

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 11:39 AM

no,In my experience it doesnt slow down your playing.
left middle finger plays C, LEFT index plays G, left ring plays E.
This sort of thing is useful for song accompaniment,you can then play a C add an E,and add a G,While holding on the previous notes.
or you can play similiar to a guitarists dum ching.
C Then on the off beat play EG together,I know this as vamping,rhythym 1 . 2.this is impossible using the one finger for two button system,that is why it is limiting.
It is just a question of practice.
when playing tunes I often use the octave note to accentuate a note,or a fifth below like a fiddlers double stop,but I nearly always use two different fingers.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 11:50 AM

or,sometimes, I play left indexfinger C , Left ring finger E, left middle finger G,you might find that easier.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: Artful Codger
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 08:52 PM

I find that the proper choice (one finger or two--and which two) is very context-dependent. Using two fingers produces more awkward, clustered positions, and leaves fewer fingers free for playing passing or grace notes (as well as limiting them to one side) or for preparing for a following chord, run or leap. While it facilitates legato in some cases, it impedes it in others. It also requires that at least one finger be moved out of its natural positioning, and often requires more effort, contrary to the conservation of effort/movement that characterizes the most musical playing. In other words, the two-finger fifth is also a limiting technique, just as limiting as the one-finger fifth though in different ways. Neither approach is inherently superior, and neither should be eschewed.

Consequently, I'd advise learning to play both fingerings at roughly the same time, and seeing how a change in context affects fingering preference. As Dick implies, learning the two-finger fifth should not be deferred, nor should it be considered a special case alternative to the one-finger fifth. But the solution is not to denigrate the one-finger fifth, which very often proves a simpler, and therefore better, choice. A player should finger according to what he IS going to do, not according to what he COULD (but won't) do. This can present a challenge for tutorial materials, since they should follow best fingering principles in all but explicitly preparatory exercises. This means that they may have to introduce variations in beginning materials to produce real conditions that naturally favor two-finger fifths over one-finger fifths.

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 08 - 08:59 PM

"Neither approach is inherently superior, and neither should be eschewed."

As usual in life, there are no fixed positions, only modulations....

:-)

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 04:24 AM

That is why I advise beginners to ignore these video tutorials,because they should be showing both methods.
I have to honestly say that I cant recall an occasion when   the two finger method has impeded my abilty to play chords both legato and staccato.
neither [in my experience] have I found that my abilty to play grace notes in Irish music has been hampered.
Irish music is [imo]linear,and the chording I use is octaves and fifths[similiar to fiddlers double stops],which I achieve with two fingers,if I want to use a grace note I normally cut on the opposite side of the two note chord,with a finger belonging to the opposite hand.
[imo]grace notes are an effect,and in traditional music it matters little whether you double cut for example[an Anote] , b g,or b dor b b
the same applies to single grace notes[I normally do that which is easiest,cut note above or below on opposite side
Rolls, I normally play as a fiddler whould play, without a chord note[So this ornamentation is not affected,by the discussion].
   The occasions,That I do tend to jump fifths[this is different from playing two fingers with one button]is northumbrian music,where the staccato sound [imo]is eminently suitable.
There are occasions where I press two buttons with one finger,but these are a minority.
however, the one finger two button chordal approach is limiting,and used exclusively,prevents you from achieving certain techniques,to teach it exclusively is to teach bad technique.
http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 08:04 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSYTCcfWwE
I have put a video up,recommending using both methods.

Subject: RE: playing chords on the English Concertina
From: Guran
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:02 AM

Dear Captain (Dick) ! I do agree using one finger for one button is a good pedagogic aim and a technical one too (since buttons prefer being hit in their travelling direction) but the natural
lazy cheat like myself nevertheless finds it enormously handy using one finger for those fifths which are offered at proper distance.And even more - for your CEG (and similar) for instance I often use one finger for all three and for four-note chords like Am7, Cmaj7, Dm7,Em7, Fmaj7, G7 I usually use two fingers and sometimes only one for all four buttons.
This is facilitated since I have changed the buttons from 5mm to 6mm diam ones firstly for better touch comfort but also for this particular reason - to make it easier pressing more than one button with one finger.It all depends so much on individual habits.

Apart from that I think the finger plate should be eliminated - to allow the fourth finger to be fooling around with the others…