Famous People in Children's Rhymes

Subject: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:00 PM

What rhymes do you know that include the names of historical or modern day world leaders, movie stars, or other famous people?

I'll start the ball rolling with some examples that I've heard or read.

Thanks, in advance, for your participation in this thread.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:03 PM

The noble Duke of York, he had ten thousand men...
he marched them up the hill and then marched them down again.

And when you're up, you're up...
and when you're down, you're down....
and when you're only half way up, you're neither up nor down.

Based on the poorly organized and managed Flanders Campaign in the 1790s.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:04 PM

Here's the example that I just found which served as the inspiration for this thread:

Bill & Monica sittin
in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First comes Ken Starr
Then comes Hillary
Oops!
There goes the Presidency!

By Butirfli on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 11:27 am:
http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
Streetplay.com Discussion: Girl Games: Singing: Silly songs, theme songs, etc.: Archive through November 27, 2000

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

Thanks,Volgadon!

I've found this rhyme on a number of websites and books. but I didn't know that it was based on a real Duke of York.

I'm curious, was this a jump rope {skipping} rhyme, and, perhaps, also a ball bouncing rhyme. Or was it a handclap rhyme?

And does anyone know if children {girls mostly?} still reciting this rhyme in the UK, in the USA, in Australiaand/or in other English speaking nations?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

Re: the Clinton/Ken Starr rhyme that I posted: that was the first contemporary {post 1950} English language children's rhymes that I've found that refers to a political figure.

Does anyone know any other example of political rhymes that supposedly come from children prior to the 1950s or afterwards?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

I forgot to write his name. Prince Frederick. George III's son. He later founded the military academy at Sandhurst.

I would think that the rhyme was a run around wild in the street playing at whatever holds your interest for more than two minutes rhyme.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

I would think that the rhyme was a run around wild in the street playing at whatever holds your interest for more than two minutes rhyme.
-Volgadon

LOL!

That's a great description. Thanks!!

:o)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM

Here's one I learned at my mother's knee. Don't know if it's a children's rhyme or a grown-ups one. It probably dates from 1945 or so. Although I can sing it I can't remember the name of the original tune - it'll come to me soon!

Vote, vote, vote for Winston Churchill
Throw all the others in the dock.
Winston is our man, we'll have him if we can
And we'll throw all the others in the dock.
(By the cock!)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:47 PM

Poor Michael Jackson. The still famous but no longer admired as much as he used to be in the 1970s & 1980s pop star will go do in history as a featured character in numerous versions of the widely known handclapping children's rhyme "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky".

But what interests me the most about these rhymes is that they preserve accounts, in somewhat convoluted forms, of an actual happening. In addition, these examples also include commentary about Michael Jackson. Some of these versions are homophopic, which is sad to see.

Here's what happened:

1984: Michael Jackson burned in Pepsi ad
Michael Jackson has received hospital treatment for serious burns to his head after his hair caught light during a freak filming accident.

The 25-year-old entertainer was singing his hit "Billie Jean" for a Pepsi Cola commercial in Los Angeles when the special effects went wrong.

Three thousand fans saw a firework display erupt behind the superstar, showering him in sparks and setting light to his hair"...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/27/newsid_4046000/4046605.stm
-snip-

Here's two examples of these Michael Jackson/"Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" rhymes, originally posted on this Mudcat thread:

thread.cfm?threadid=94034&messages=210

From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:39 PM

My friends play it like this:

Down by the bank by the hanky panky
where the bullfrogs jumps from bank to bank
We're sayin ep op ep op op
skiddle diddle kernal pop!
I pledge alligence to the flag
Micheal Jackson makes me gag
Coca Cola messed him up
now we're drinking 7up
7up has no caffine
now we're drinking gassoline
Gassoline not good for you
now we're drinking Mt. Dew
Mt. Dew fell off the Mt.
now we're drinking from a fountain
The fountain broke
and now we're back to drinking coke

**

Subject: RE: Origins: Down by the Banks of the Hanky Panky
From: GUEST,ME! - PM
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 12:53 PM

Down by the river
To the hanky pank
Where the bullfrog jumps
from bank to bank
saying E I O U
Your mama stinks and so do you
So ding dong ping pong
Your daddy smells like king kong.
Michael Jackson went to town
Dr. Pepper brought him down
Coca Cola brought him up
Now he's drinking 7-Up
7-Up with no caffine
Now we're talking Billy Jean
Inky Binky Bonky, Daddy had a Donkey
Donkey died
Daddy cried
Inky Binky Bonkey

-snip-
There are many more examples of this rhyme-including the homophobic versions-on that Mudcat thread whose link I provided.

I should note that I don't think that children reciting this rhyme nowadays or even way back when know or knew that it was recounting a historical occurrence.

It's also interesting to note that in spite of the fact that Michael Jackson was filming a television commercial for Pepsi-Cola, the name of the soft drink that is almost first associated with Jackson is Coca-Cola. I think that may be because the name "Coca-Cola" is more rhythmical and easier to say.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM

Thanks, GUEST 12 Oct 08 - 05:25 PM for posting that example.

For the purposes of this thread, I think it's okay to be somewhat "liberal" in our interpretation of what constitutes a children's rhyme. As long as there's no known documentation of the rhyme being written by an adult or adults, if children recited it or still recite it, the example can count as a children's rhyme.

At least, that's my view.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:01 PM

Here's a "clean" version of handclap rhyme that appears to be widely known {at least among African American girls & boys in numerous cities throughout the USA}.

Tweedleelee {Version #1}
Tweedleelee
(Treetop)
Tweedleelee
(My Prop)
Tweedleelee
Popsicle, popsicle
Your butt stinks

He rocks in the tree top
all day long
huffin and ah puffin
and ah singin his song.
All the little birds on Jay Bird street
Love to hear the bird go
Tweet Tweet Tweet!

Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee

I went downtown
To get ah stick of butter.
I saw James Brown
layin in the gutter.
I saw a piece of glass
stickin in his butt.
I never saw a Black man
run so fast.

Mama's in the kitchen
cookin rice.
Daddy's outside
shootin dice.
Brother's in jail
raisin bail.
Sister's on the corner
Selling Fruit Cock Tail.
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
-girls and boys ages 6-13 years old; Pittsburgh, Pa, 1999, Northview Heights after-school program


-snip-
This handclap rhyme comes from the 1971 version of "Rockin Robin" that was recorded by Michael Jackson. That version begins with the refrain "tweed lee diddly dee {or some such words}". Visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X12itKdTCOg to hear this song.

Tweedleelee
(Treetop)
Tweedleelee
(My Prop)
Tweedleelee
Popsicle, popsicle
Your butt stinks

He rocks in the tree top
all day long
huffin and ah puffin
and ah singin his song.
All the little birds on Jay Bird street
Love to hear the bird go
Tweet Tweet Tweet!

Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee

I went downtown
To get ah stick of butter.
I saw James Brown
layin in the gutter.
I saw a piece of glass
stickin in his butt.
I never saw a Black man
run so fast.

Mama's in the kitchen
cookin rice.
Daddy's outside
shootin dice.
Brother's in jail
raisin bail.
Sister's on the corner
Selling Fruit Cock Tail.
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweetdalee
-girls and boys ages 6-13 years old; Pittsburgh, Pa, 1999, Northview Heights after-school program

"Tweeleelee" {or similarly sounding names} is a partner, or three person, or two sets of partners handclap rhyme and not a lightly competitive group handclap rhyme like "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky".

This handclap rhyme comes from the 1971 version of "Rockin Robin" that was recorded by Michael Jackson. That version begins with the refrain "tweed lee diddly dee {or some such words}". Here's a YouTube clip of this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X12itKdTCOg

In my opinion, the name of R&B singer James Brown is an updated version of older children's rhymes that included the name of the fictitious characters "Buster Brown" and "Charlie Brown".

To read additional examples and commentary on this rhyme, visit http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes.htm


Some African American women in Pittsburgh have shared with me that they recited "Tweeleelee" in basically the same form in the 1970s.



Btw,

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 07:04 PM

Sorry for my poor cut & paste job.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Joe_F
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 08:45 PM

Naughty Baby (Bonaparte)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:25 AM

Here's another children's rhyme that mentions Michael Jackson:

Sham,sham,sham
I don't want to go hollywood
No more,more,more
there is a big fat Michel jackson
At my door,door,door
he'll grab me by the hips
Make me kiss his lips
I don't want to go hollywood
No more,more,more
-Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2000

http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
Streetplay.com Discussion: Girl Games: Singing: Silly songs, theme songs, etc.: Archive through November 27, 2000


**

Here's a version of the same rhyme from the same person. This version mentions Rock & Roll singer Elvis {Presley}, although Anonymous spells that singer's name "Elves":

Sham,sham,sham
I don't want to go Tennisee
No more,more,more
there is a big fat Elves
at my door,door,door
He'll grab me by the wrist
Make me do the twist
I don't want to go Tennisee
No more,more,more
-Anonymous on Sunday, November 19, 2000


**

That same poster shared what appears to be the most commonly found "contemporary" version of this rhyme- "I Don't Want To Go To Mexico". The "original" version of this rhyme is probably "I Don't Want To Go To Macy's."

Anonymous, November 19, 2000 noted that these were handclap rhymes.

**

In the examples of this rhyme that I've heard, and that I've read online, "Sham Sham Sham" is usually given as "Shame Shame Shame."
"Shame Shame Shame" serves as both commentary and introduction to the actual rhyme.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:26 AM

Joe_F, thanks for posting a link to that example.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:25 AM

We three Beatles of Liverpool are
George in a taxi, Paul in a car,
John on a scooter parping his hooter
Following Ringo Starr.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Fiolar
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:21 AM

I suggest that you get hold of the book entitled "Pop Goes the Weasel: The Secret Meanings of Nursery Rhymes" by Albert Jack. It covers practically every nursery rhyme and nearly everyone of them relates to historical figures and events.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:16 PM

Thanks. Fiolar for your suggestion.

While this thread can include examples from nursery rhymes, I'm much more interested in examples of children's handclap, jumprope {skipping} rhymes, game songs, and cheers.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:23 PM

here's a version of God Save the King that [my daughter and son] proudly made up a few years ago:

Oh, tis our country be
I went to Italy
To see the king
His name was Jackie Chan
He smells like garbage can
He lives like a mouse
In the fat guys house

He fought with girls in court
He got a trial sport
He smells like an oil can
He's Jackie Chan

(They have no more idea what "trial sport" means than we do, but they liked the sound of it.)

Enjoy.
-Jacob {from his daughter Julia, 15, and his son Michael,13}; Arlington, Massachusetts; via electronic mail to Azizi Powell; 3/25/2006

Jackie Chan is an actor, film director who may be best known for his martial arts performances.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 07:35 PM

I'm going to take the liberty of reposting an example from this Mudcat thread:

thread.cfm?threadid=81350&messages=222


Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara - PM
Date: 22 May 05 - 11:22 PM

Ah, and in my Republican white collar suburb of Detroit, in the 50's we sang:
Whistle while you work
Stevenson's a jerk
Eisenhower has the power
Whistle while you work.

Blessings,
Barbara

"Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower (October 14, 1890 – March 28, 1969) was President of the United States from 1953 until 1961 and a five-star general in the United States Army". Click here for his wikipedia page.

"Adlai Ewing Stevenson II (February 5, 1900 – July 14, 1965) was an American politician, noted for his intellectual demeanor and advocacy of liberal causes in the Democratic Party. He served one term as governor of Illinois and ran, unsuccessfully, for president against Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952 and 1956". Click here
for his wikipedia page.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 09:03 PM

Georgie Best
Superstar
Walks like a woman
And he wears a bra
The bra's too big
He wears a wig
And that's why they call him
A sexy pig.

http://www.odps.org/glossword/index.php?a=term&d=3&t=360
Seedy Songs and Rotten Rhymes - the poetry of the playground

**
"George Best (22 May 1946 – 25 November 2005) was a Northern Irish professional football player, best known for his years with Manchester United...In 1968,...he won the European Cup with Manchester United, and was named the European Footballer of the Year"... Click here for the wikipedia page for George Best.

**

http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2005/12/georgie-best-superstar.html features this entry:

Friday, December 02, 2005
Georgie Best, Superstar
Iain Dale 4:23 PM

"So George Best will be laid to rest tomorrow. I remember running round my primary school paying shouting "Georgie Best, superstar, walks like a woman and he wears a bra". As you can see, Ashdon County Primary School did a good job educating me. At that time I was a Man U supporter, but it was the season they were relegated. The shame of supporting a Division 2 team was too much so I decided to support the team which my best friend supported, West Ham United. Good long term decision, eh? Haven't regretted it for a minute. No Siree."

**

I found this note on another website:

'Georgie Best! Superstar! Walks like a woman and he wears a bra!' So sang the Old Trafford faithful in Best's heyday and as his life slips away, we have to make sure we remember Best for being inarguably one of the greatest footballers in the history of the sport. Our thoughts are with you, Georgie."
http://yermam.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!3A7FA58C279083A7!1339.entry

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

Dr Foster went to Gloucester
In a shower of rain
He stepped in a puddle
Right up to his muddle (middle)
And never went there again

Apparently it's based on a true story - Aah'm sure someone oot there will enlighten

Ride A Cock Horse is another one with 'a history'

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:33 PM

I hear tell Geordie-Peorgie is a real person, but Georgie Porgie may not have been.

:o}

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:56 PM

Here are some examples of famous people in children's playground rhymes from http://www.inthe80s.com/rhymes.shtml {I wrote the names of actual and not fictious famous people in italics}:


Marijuana, Marijuana
PCP, PCP
Betty Crocker makes it,
Ronald Reagan takes it,
Why can't we? Why can't we?

**

Joy to the world, Hussein is dead
We barbecued his head.
What happened to his body?
We flushed it down the potty.
And around and around it goes
And around and around it goes.
And around, around, around it goes.

**

Whistle while you work.
Hitler is a jerk.
Mussolini bit his weenie.
Now it doesn't work.

**

to: "On top of old smokey" On top of a white roof, all covered with blood
Regan shot Khadafi, with a 44 stud.
He went to his funeral, he went to his grave
Instead of red roses, he threw a granade.
He read in the papers, that he wasn't dead
So he bought a bazooka and blew off his head.

**

My name is alli alli chickali chickali pom pom poodles willy wolly wiskers My name is Elvis Presly girls are sexy sittin in a hot tub drinking diet pepsi My name is Cheif Roast Beef

**

Michael Jackson (alternate version):
I pledge allegience to the flag; Michael Jackson is a fag.
Pepsi Cola burnt him up- now he's drinking 7UP!
7UP has no caffiene; Now he's singing Billie Jean.
Billie Jean was not his lover and his nose is made of rubber!
Rubberface, but don't repeat it- now his dance steps are to Beat It.
Beat It now & don't you tell her this fine tale about the Thriller.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:26 PM

Here are two cheerleader cheers from my website that mention Pop music star Elvis Presley:


"Open up the barn yard kick out the hay cause we're the girls from the usa turn on the radio what do you here elvis peresly doing his cheer hop on ya horses pull out ya guns bum daddy bum daddy we're number one"
-Thomara B., 2/23/2007; http://www.cocojams.com/cheerleader_cheers.htm


**

"I'm submitting this on behalf of my 9 year old daughter. She came home from school today, we live in Clovis, NM, with a new chant that I've never heard of before so I thought that you would like to post this. Not sure of the name of it, so she's been calling it the Elvis Presley chant. It goes: Open the barnyard, kick out the hay, We're the girls from the USA. Turn up the radio, who do you hear? Elvis
Presley singing his cheer. We gotta F-I-G-H-T, We gotta F-I-G-H-T, We gotta F-I-G-H-T, (throw out punches into the air as the word is being spelled out each time) We gotta fight, fight, fight, on a Saturday night".
-Alex {on behalf of his 9 year old daughter}; 9/19/2007; http://www.cocojams.com/cheerleader_cheers.htm

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:31 PM

MBSLynne posted a rhyme from her daughter that includes a verse about Elvis Presley. I'm taking the liberty to repost that example on this thread:


Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: MBSLynne - PM
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 06:07 AM

My daughter, who is eight, is still doing clapping rhymes, though the ones she does are different from the ones I did in the 50s and 60s. (These, by the way, are in England). The one she seems to do mostly is:

I went to a Chinese restaurant
To buy me a loaf of bread, bread, bread.
He wrapped it up in a five pound note
And this is what he said, said, said:

My name is
Elvis Presley,
Girls are sexy
Sitting in the back seat
Drinking pepsi.

Where's your father?
Died in a fishtank..Last night
What did he die of?..Raw fish.
How did he die..Like this.

On the "Like this" they pull a strange face as of somebody dead. She says there are various versions of the rhyme. We used to do the first bit, but not the bit beginning with "Elvis Presley"...

thread.cfm?threadid=63097#1022419

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:40 PM

Vote, vote, vote for de Valera...

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:54 PM

Thompson, could you please post more lines to that children's rhyme or did you mean to post it in this Mudcat thread: Songs & Jingles In Political Campaigns?

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 08:12 AM

Here are two examples from thread.cfm?threadid=2998&messages=112

Subject: RE: Naughty kids' greatest hits II
From: Melani - PM
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 12:34 AM

On top of Old Smoky
Where nobody goes,
I saw Annie Oakley
Without any clothes.
Along came Gene Autry
And took off his vest,
And when he saw Annie,
He took off the rest.

**

Subject: RE: Naughty kids' greatest hits II
From: Metchosin - PM
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 03:18 AM

We used Betty Grable instead of Annie Oakley and from what I recall, sang:

Along came Gene Autry
A clippity clop
He sat down beside her
And pulled out his cock



subtlety was lost on us.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

One from before the War.

Hark the Herald Angels sing
Mrs. Simpson's pinched our King.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

Thanks, Sailor Ron, for posting that rhyme fragment.

That rhyme refers to Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson. The word "pinched" in the line "Mrs. Simpson's pinched our King", the word "pinched" means something like "took" or "stole".

Here's an excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VIII_of_the_United_Kingdom :

"Edward VIII (Edward Albert Christian George Andrew Patrick David; later The Duke of Windsor; 23 June 1894 – 28 May 1972) was King of the United Kingdom and the British dominions, and Emperor of India from 20 January 1936, following the death of his father, George V, until his abdication on 11 December 1936...Only months into his reign, Edward caused a constitutional crisis by proposing marriage to the American divorcée Wallis Simpson. Although legally Edward could have married Mrs. Simpson and remained king, the prime ministers of his various realms opposed the marriage, arguing that the people would never accept her as queen...Rather than give up Mrs. Simpson, Edward chose to abdicate, making him the only monarch of Britain, and indeed any Commonwealth realm, to have voluntarily relinquished the throne"...

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:51 AM

Although it's not a children's rhyme, I can't resist posting this link to the words to Lord Caresser's now classic calypso song about King Edward and Wallis Simpson:

thread.cfm?threadid=90138#1706173
Most popular historical lovers...

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:56 AM

Georgie Porgie is usually reckoned to be King George IV.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:58 AM

Oh. Thanks, Manitas. I didn't know that.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM

Manitas, I don't want to weigh into this topic because I know too little about it. But, for the record, from a brief online search and not a more thorough literature search, it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean, including "Georgy Porgie".

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

Bah Bah Black sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir Yes sir,Three bags full.
One for the master,
One for the dame.
One for the little boy.
Who lives down the lane.
Refers to payments made to the family disrupted by the birth of James 1's illegitimate son.
Three bags of wool = the payment.
Master = the husband of the Dame who gave birth to the child.
The little boy = obviously the son.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:20 PM

The sentence that I posted on was poorly structured. I meant to say that I did not conduct a thorough search on the subject of the meaning of nusery rhyme. However, from the brief online search that I did conduct on that subject t of that subject it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean.

Perhaps nursery rhymes mean more than one. And maybe their meanings have changed over time.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:22 PM

Let me try that again:

The sentence that I wrote on 17 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM was poorly structured. I meant to say that I did not conduct a thorough search on the subject of the meaning of nusery rhyme. However, from the brief online search that I did conduct on that subject t of that subject it appears that there is considerable disagreement about what many nursery rhymes mean.

Perhaps nursery rhymes mean more than one. And maybe their meanings have changed over time.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 04:39 PM

Here's an example of a jump rope {skipping}rhyme that mentions a famous person:

George Washington

never told a lie.

'till he ran around the corner

(Drag out while singing. The jumper runs out and run around a turner then jumps back in and the song continues)

stole a cherry pie.

How many cherries were in that pie?

1.2.3.4....(count until the jumper messes up)

Contributed by Solana Reed

http://www.gameskidsplay.net/jump_rope_ryhmes/jump_george_washington.htm

-snip-

I like children's playground rhymes because they showcase children's creativity. I'm interested in this subset of children's playground rhymes {rhymes that mention famous people} because they preserve children's take on people who are currently in the news, or children's take on historical figures.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:46 PM

Manitas is reet abbot George IV (or Ivy as wez knaahn on Tyneside)

And... althoug it doesn't mention anyone partic'lar..........

Ring-a-ring-a-roses
Coron'ry thrombosis
Seizure! Seizure!
All fall down

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:10 PM

Here's another parody version of the song "Whistle While You Work":

Subject: RE: Folklore: Play Ground Hand Jives
From: EuGene - PM
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:32 PM

...I remember a "nasty" chant us boys would do at about 7 or 8 years old (sung to the 7 Dwarfs' work song):

"Whistle while you work,
Hitler was a jerk.
Mussolini yanked his weenie,
Now it will not squirt."

thread.cfm?threadid=102055

-snip-

In another post to that thread EuGene provided the following demographical information:

"I grew up for part of my early years in the remote Ozarks area of North Arkansas where there were no African Americans".

I'm not sure whether age 7 or 8 counts as being part of his "early years" or notthat time period or not. However, EuGene also noted that he remembered rhymes from "the 1950's and early 1960's".

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

Geordie-Peorgie, thanks for posting that version of "Ring-a-ring-a-roses" {which is usually called "Ring Around The Roses" in the USA}.

The version you posted "sounds" like it might be an adult parody and not a children's version.

??

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:46 PM

Here's a children's handclap rhyme that mentions American pianist and entertainer Liberace


Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meeny
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Thumbalina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do.
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Oooshe ahshe
Oooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull too black
I want my money back
The money too green
I want a diamond ring.
{Source Barbara Michels, Bettye White, Apples On A Stick,
The Folklore of Black Children (Houston, Texas; 1983, p. 17)

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:33 PM

Oh Azizi! Aah wish it were so!

Unfortunately that version wez deein' the roonds when aah wez aboot 10 or 12 years - Aboot 1960!

There wez aall the others aboot Hitler bein' testicularly challenged.

There's a UK brewery (Shepherd Neame) who had a series of adverts for a beer caalled 'Spitfire' which took the p*ss oot o' the Germans - One advert was a picture of old Adolf with the slogan 'Spot The Ball'

Another one had a condom (in its packet) in a pint of beer with the slogan 'Oh-oh! Johnnie's in the drink' - Priceless

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:48 PM

LOL, Geordie-Peorgie!

Well I'm impressed that boys that age knew the medical terms "Coron'ry thrombosis".

At least I think that "thrombosis" is a medical term.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Melissa
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

at my second camp, they sang one about a tall silk hat which had a "Christopher Columbus, what do you think of that"

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

Azizi asked if The Grand Old Duke Of York was a jump rope {skipping} rhyme, and, perhaps, also a ball bouncing rhyme. Or was it a handclap rhyme?
It is none of these. It is a kid's dance in which the boys form a line and the girls form another line facing each other. To the music the first couple join hands and skip down between the two lines. At the bottom, they turn and skip back up to the top. There they part and the boy turns left and skips down the outside of the line of boys while the girl turns right and skips down the girls' line. The boys then follow the first boy and the girls follow the first girl. At the bottom the first boy and girl face each other and make an arch with both arms held high. As each of the boys and girls meet, they link hands, pass through the arch and reform the two lines, with a new first couple. The original couple are now at the other end of the lines and the new first couple begin all over again.

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

I don't know. What do you think?

Sorry, Melissa. I couldn't resist that one.

Thanks for that example. That's not a song I know. But if we are branching out into children's songs and not playground rhymes, there are the call & response versions of Ruldolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Here's two:

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a light bulb)
And if you ever saw it (saw it)
You would even say it glowed (like a flashlight)
All of the other reindeer (reindeer)
Used to laugh and call him names (like Pinocchio)
They never let poor Rudolph (Rudolph)
Join in any reindeer games (like Monopoly)

Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Santa came to say {say What?!}
Rudolph with your nose so bright
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight?

Then how the reindeer loved him (loved him)
And they shouted out with glee (Hurrah!}
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
You'll go down in history...(like Columbus}
-girls & boys, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; collected by Azizi Powell, 1997

-snip-

Btw, In 2006 I heard some African American children in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania say "You'll go down in history {like Martin Luther King}".

**

Subject: Lyr Req: got any kid's additions for Rudolph?
From: open mike - PM
Date: 17 Dec 04 - 07:35 PM

here is how the song appears in the D.T.
but i think htere are some other words
for the parenthesis--end of lines shouts

for instatnce the shiny nose and the "glows"
sometimes both have light bulb after them..'
but i am looking for a different one for "nose"
and we usually said "like Columbus" for the history one.


RUDOLPH, THE RED-NOSED REINDEER (with kid's additons)

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a light bulb)
And if you ever saw it (saw it)
You would even say it glowed (like a stop light)
All of the other reindeer (reindeer)
Used to laugh and call him names (like Pinocchio)
They never let poor Rudolph (Rudolph)
Join in any reindeer games (like Monopoly)

Then one foggy Christmas Eve, Santa came to say (Ho, ho, ho)
Rudolph with your nose so bright
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight

Then how the reindeer loved him (loved him)
And they shouted out with glee (ha, ha, ha)
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
You'll go down in history...(like George Washington)

thread.cfm?threadid=76629

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:27 PM

Thanks, Bill.

I appreciate you sharing that information!

In the USA elementary school age boys {7-13 years} seldom like to play singing/chanting games with girls {except some competitive handclap games like "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" and "Stella Ella Ola." Btw, there are Mudcat threads for both of these rhymes}.

I would be surprised if this is any different in the UK. I'd also be surprised if children in the UK or elsewhere still perform this dance on their own inititive. Can you share any information on that? Also do you have a sense of how widely known "Duke Of York" might be among UK children nowadays {meaning,since the 1980s or so?}

Thanks again, Bill!

Subject: RE: Famous People in Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 08:54 PM

Also, Bill, for what it's worth, about five years ago, I attended a wedding and a reception for a couple who were both born in Liberia, West Africa, but who both lived in Pittsbugh, Pennsylvania.

One of the dances that was done in this reception was very much how you describe the Duke Of York dance, except that the dance ended with the end the bride & groom and other males and females who just appened to be partnered up because they were facing each other in the male and female lines, dancing facing each other to the recorded music that was playing. I can't remember what type of music it was, but I think it was R&B or pop.

I think they called this dance "The Grand March", but I'm not sure about that.

I'd never seen this dance performed before at a wedding reception or anywhere else. Most of the people who were there were from Liberia, and they seemed to be very familiar with this dance. I recall asking someone about this dance and that person saying that it is customary for this dance to be performed at Liberian wedding receptions. I wonder if this is an Anglo-American Southern custom that was carried to Africa by free or freed African Americans who emigrated to what became Liberia in the 19th century.

Be that as it may, I really loved that dance. And I wish that we African Americans had that same custom at our weddings or other social gatherings.

Is this a dance that certain populations of White adults do now in the UK at weddings or other social gatherings?