'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'

Subject: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 12:24 PM

Heather and I were reading an article this morning about Time Magazine's "Man of the Century" paper-waster. Of course it's just as silly as their "Man of the Year" thing that's been going on for so many years, but it got us thinking.
Naturally they've always wanted controversy, cause it sells magazines, and names like Hitler, Freud, Elvis, Jesus, Lady Di (!!), etc. are bound to stir up heated opinions. We thought it might be a (little) simpler, and entertaining, to boot to find out who's in the Mudcatter's Hall of fame.
The criteria are simple:

1. The person must have lived most of their life in this century.

2. Bad people can often be more influential than good ones, so don't eliminate someone because they were a creep.

3. Only pick people who were BORN AND RAISED in your country and carried out A PART OF THEIR WORK IN YOUR COUNTRY.

Don't forget to mention your country, so we can keep track. Heather is having difficulty narrowing down the most important Scot of the century, and I'm waffling between Dr. Banting (insulin) and William Shatner (just kidding!).

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Night Owl
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 12:33 PM

Dr. Martin Luther King....USA

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Frank of Toledo
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 01:02 PM

Mother Jones and Pete Seeger...........

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 05:01 PM

I've always been a big fan of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, but I kind of hate to post this because I have a bit of an aversion to "greatest" and "best" lists because they leave out so many worthy people. I'd actually rather nominate Sandy Paton and Art Thieme and Dick Greenhaus.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: JOField
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 07:00 PM

U.S.A.:

Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Bessie Smith

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: LEJ
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 07:55 PM

Some nominees

Bob Dylan,Franklin Roosevelt, Henry Ford, Frank Lloyd Wright, Bill Gates, Martin Luther King, Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 10:00 PM

My country is Scotland and I nominate Sean Connery, I also nominate Sean Connery for King of Scotland when we regain our independence next year.

I'd also vote for "Dolly the Sheep" and Lulu and Billy Connelly.

Duckboots

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 99 - 11:49 PM

I agree with Duckboots, even though Scotland is not my country, this incarnation! (But it is in my heart!)

For this country, mmmmm, let's see...Margaret Sanger; all of the suffragettes who gave their all for women to get the right to vote; Will Rogers; Shirley Chisholm; Molly Ivins; Maya Angelou; Leonard Bernstein (for his Young People's Concerts, esp.); the Lomaxes; Dr. Michael DeBakey; Robert Fulghum; Garrison Keillor; Brooke Medicine Eagle; Russell Means; and Leonard Peltier.

Don't ask me to choose just one of each! It's too hard!!!

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 01:13 PM

I'm sick of this thread even though I started it! As usual Joe Offer is 100% correct. I hate "best of..lists as well". The vast majority of people I admire (musical, and other) would be totally unknown to most other people, so to make any kind of list be even remotely interesting, you have to go with reasonably famous "names".
I like the idea of Sandy Paton as "Man of the Century" though. I don't think Art or Dick are quite old enough yet though!

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Mark Roffe
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 01:39 PM

Ginny, who gets my vote as Woman of the Century, says "Eleanor Roosevelt" and "Martin Luther King, Jr." As for my opinion, I think the man/woman of the century are still unknown to us -- there are some truly great humanitarians alive, but the news hasn't discovered them yet. Most of those who get media attention (in this century) stand on pedestals of hype; I like to think that most of the giant hearted dedicated greats remain anonymous.

Mark

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 06:50 PM

That's the truth Mark.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 07:08 PM

EASY.

Well the USA's (and Scotland's?) must be Sandy's Dad.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Mark Roffe
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 07:37 PM

Well I agree with THAT, too. ....living in three centuries.....

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Matthew B.
Date: 13 Jun 99 - 08:40 PM

I happen to believe that Dr. Suess is one of the greatest people who ever lived.

Add to the list: Pete Seeger, Dr. Spock, Golda Meir, Paul Robeson, Charlie Chaplin and Jim Henson. Our world is immeasurably enriched by their lives.

On the list of bad influences, of course there's Ol' Adolph (worst human ever, as far as I'm concerned), but in a way I think Stalin's bad influence on the world was even more far reaching (or at least, longer lasting), with Mao not too far behind.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: hank
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 09:26 AM

Mother Thersia. I don't have to agree with her religion to know she was a great women who will be noticed in heaven. Accually she is more a symbol of those who took on similear missionary work, but refused the public spotlight, and so we will never know them.

The problem with man of the centry is they want to know now, while we won't really know until latter. For instance I belive the bad decisions of FDR and president Kennedy just have not caught up with them yet. I think it is safe to start thinking about the man of the century for the 1800s. It is not safe to start thinking of the man of the century for the 1900s.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:04 AM

Mahatma Gandhi is the greatest man of this hideous, violent century. He is the only person to have virtually singlehandedly created a new form of politics (Tolstoi and Thoreau helped a bit) and to have reempowered Hinduism, Christianity, Jainism, and Buddhism as forces for political good and active human welfare. Gandhism was adopted by Martin Luther King, Vaclav Havel, The Filipinos, etc. Gandhi proved that the non-violent steadfastness to truth was finally unspottable; and that human dignity was a political weapon. It cannot be used easily against pathological monsters (and we have had enough of those) and it requires infinite patience; but even in the limited time it has been around, its record of success against armies and tanks is staggering -- India, East Germany, Bulgaria, Rumania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Russia, Thailand, the Phillippines, Indonesia, and others. In spite of the hideous problems associated with the partition of India, if Gandhi hadn't been there, it would have been vastly more hideous, and there would have been a catastrophic war with Britain. Further, his social and economic thought will eventually be seen as the only possible style for living on the earth. When people lookback on the 20th century, it will not be struggle between East and West that will dominate the stage, but the emergence of serious non-violence out of the maelstrom of horror. It will be the Age of Gandhi.
Yours, Peter T.
P.S. Any century with Audrey Hepburn in it can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:08 AM

"Unspottable and unstoppable!" Spoonerism, showing the influence of the spoons thread!!!!
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Fadac
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:13 AM

In the early part of the century, Nichlos Telsa, (inventer of AC, radio, etc) Then, oh dear, there are so many, Kodac (flexable film, no more glass plates), Armstrong, who made radio work, (AM & FM). Adm. Ruth (? not sure of the name, darn it.) Anyway she was first Admral in the Navy, and she invented COBOL. COBOL is what really make computers work for bisiness.

!!! DANGER, Possable Thread CREAP Ahead !!!!

I like thinking of the progress in the past 100 years. But think of the progress in the previous 100 years too. In 1800, people still wore powdered wigs, Everything was powered by muscles or wind, with a bit of falling water. By 1899, there were practial (but not very) airships, Steem trains and ships. Telephones, movies (sort of) X-Rays, I think we have to give a bit of credit to the 19 century for what we have today. Not much really happened from 1400-1799, just a little bit by comparison to the 19th.

Perhaps the groundwork of this century were layed down in the previous one.

Ok, I think of more engineering things than social things, but I'm an engineer type person.

Fadac -The looking for a new cursor for his slide rule man.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:20 AM

Rick,

I too thought of Banting as Canada's man of the century, but my nomination goes out to Terry Fox, a truly amazing man who taught us all that anything is achievable. May God rest his soul.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:31 AM

I hate pulling people up over trivial mistakes. Well, actually, I love it, but I do try not to do it.

But it's not your day, Fadac! Nikola (I think!) Tesla (definitely!), who deserves a prize for outsmarting T A Edison over DC/AC mains; "Kodak" was a name invented by Thomas(?) Eastman (ancestor of the late Linda McCartney) - you can't mispronounce it in over fifteen languages - what a brilliant piece of marketing for a brilliant product; Armstrong - I must look him (her?) up; Grace Hopper only made Commodore (but she ought to be an admiral, a sultan or a king! as the song says), but she developed Cobol more or less single handed - my heroine! All these people were foreigners to me (Tesla was even a foreigner in America!), being English.

Most of the candidates for "Man/Woman of the Century" are too numerous to mention. Maybe we could have "Most preferred dozen-or-two people"? And if you ask me tomorrow I'll give you a different answer!

Steve

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 11:31 AM

Hmmm, some good choices. I WAS going to get my assets out of this (see Joe Offer reference) but as usual, easier said than done. Amazingly I agree with you Hank (probably first time) about it being too soon. Certainly as far as politicians go anyway. Ghandi being the exception. I've never been a huge fan of JFK. Always seen him a little like Lady Di, in that the hype buried just about everything else. Looks like the new "lamb to the slaughter" in Britain, Sophie, has a better handle on how to deal with being a Royal celebrity.(talk about thread creep!)

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 12:12 PM

How could I have forgotten about Tesla! And, also, Nicholas Roerich! As well, as the Dalai Lama; he's very much my hero! And, none of them from the ole' USA!

kat

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Fadac
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 01:11 PM

Steve, Thanks for the correction. My brain is still foggy from the weekend. I still pick Nick, as he did most of his most important work here in the USA. (BTW he was arrested because he said he could sink Manhaten island. Hmmm well, everything does have a resanet frequency.)

Armstrong was the guy that invented the hetrodine type reciever. And he invented FM radio. His story is the typical one of the misunderstood inventer, that is ripped off by the "Big Biz".

I thoght for sure that Grace Hopper was of flag rank. Well she gets two stars in my book.

Adolf sure gets the big rasberry for his actions, however I think that if there was a Marshel plan in 1918, and the USA had joind the League of Nations, we might not have had such a big WWII. I think the Treaty of Versise (sp) just set us up for a fall. I find the bit of history around WWI much more intresting than WWII. And now look, almost a 100 years later, and the Serbs are still causing problems. At least I think it was a Serb that shot the Archduke, and lit the fuse to WWI. I sure hope that the get the lid clamped down on those knotheads. That is one bit of history that I would not like to see repeated.

-Fadac

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: John OSh
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 06:05 PM

For man of the century from USA - hard choice but I would have to go with David Hasselhoff (sorry, really bad joke)

Really, my choice would have to be not one man, but every soldier who has served, and especially those who gave thier lives in defence of America in the 20th C. So I guess it would be men of the century!

Woman of century from USA - hands down - Rosa Parks for her courage

Man of the century from the World - Pope John Paul II Woman of the century from World - Mother Theresa

How about man/woman of the millenium?

John OSh

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Jack (Who is called Jack)
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 07:05 PM

At first I was going to say FDR, then Einstein, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that we don't have to limit it to countries. There is an individual who has dominated this century so extensively that its a no brainer--there's only one guy.

If Person of the Century is defined as that person who most effected the world, whether for good or ill, then this century you have to give the nod to Karl Marx (Even if I'm not sure that he survived into the 1900's). No Really. In spite of the big Ghandi Tribute above, and the evils of Hitler familiar to all, it has been communism which has dominated the behavior and consiousness of this century more than anything else you can name. Communism and Socialism, or the fear of them has fostered more revolution, more war (particularly of the 'civil' variety), more spending, more geopolitcal conflict, in short, more human action and human change during this century than anything else you can name that can be traced to one man. You can start with the Revolutions in Russia, and China. You can point out how Hitler's rise to power came in part because he was able to pose facism as a necessary alternative to the rising threat of communism. You can move on to the Korean War, The Cuban Revolution, The Iron Curtain, The Cold War, the Prague Spring, the Solidarity Movement, The Red Scare, McCarthyism, Vietnam (which destroyed an incumbent U.S. President and shaped the political conciousness of an entire american generation). Pope John Paul II is known for several things, spiritual leader, advocate of peace, leader of a world religion, yet history will remember him for his tireless battle against (drum roll) communism. Even today, communist governments represent nexii of political conflict, whether through the passions they incite (Cuba), or the power that they wield (China), or the diplomatic difficulties they pose (North Korea).

If you lump all of 20th century technology together, you MIGHT come up with something that has had as much influence, but if you limit it to something that you can trace to one man, its got to be communism, and the man has to be Marx.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Tony Burns
Date: 14 Jun 99 - 09:26 PM

According to http://www.cs.yale.edu/~tap/Files/hopper-story.html Grace Hopper made it to Rear Admiral Dr. Grace Murray Hopper.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 04:10 AM

Ah, it all comes back to me now ... wasn't she promoted from Commodore when she retired? I stand corrected!

Steve

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Fadac
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 10:20 AM

Tony, Thank you, my mind didn't turn to mush. Admiral Hopper.

FDR, Tried (and failed) to make the USA a socilist contry. Even when he packed the supreme court. However did get SS going here. (good or evil, your pick.)

Truman, for dropping the bomb and ending WWII and for fireing MacAuthor. I never ever want to see a General thumb his nose at the pres. Right or wrong, the pres. is the boss. We don't want serving generals running this country.

Wilson, for not taking decisive action when he could of. A more agresive action by him, would have shortened WWI and would have reduced WWII to an asian conflict.

Anyway, another .02 worth.

Fadac

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 10:41 AM

An impossible thread Rick..........top 100, 500, 1000's maybe. There is always someone else behind the pick, ie., Tesla had developed the AC idea many years before, but was working as a ditchdigger til George Westinghouse came to call.

Or maybe in some way we've all contributed something to these times for good or evil or somewhere in between. Based on the past couple of months, I'd vote for "Mudcatters." Way too many great people out there with a lot of people they'd like to thank I'm sure.

Count me out on this one, I can't do it.

catspaw

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Bert
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 11:10 AM

I'm glad that Grace Hopper is so popular. COBOL is still the best programming language EVER.
I think Betty Ford needs a mention, what a brave person.

BUT, I think first place in 'our' hearts must go to the inventor of MUDCAT - the one and only MAX.

Bert.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Stirling
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 11:11 AM

Rick

Good choice with Billy Connelly - the world was awash with speculation about how Boeing dealt with the age old question of how a 747 could travel 14 hours with 400 people on board and deal with the waste products. Initial speculation was a second 747 trailing closely behind attached with waste disposal tubing. Billy's answer (which appears patently obvious now in retrospect) was the "Jobbie Wheecha" which he described as sort of a ladle on a spring which operated behind the scenes when you flushed the toilet on those BUFF (big ugly fat f****r) aircraft. Simple yet ingenious and it took Scotland's master comedian to reveal this industrial secret. Not bad for an ex shipbuilder.

Once this question was answered, the world's best and brightest minds could turn their attention to hunger, achieving a lasting world peace and why water spins clockwise in the toilet bowl.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: bbc
Date: 15 Jun 99 - 11:51 AM

Dr. Ruth gets my vote. I once heard her speak & got some truly amazing ideas for new uses of chocolate doughnuts & whipped cream!

bbc

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 12:11 AM

bbc!!!!!!!!!!!! I had no idea! Simply shocking!!!!

So,like,uh....What do you and Duane do with the donuts and whipped cream? Filth.....er,uh.......dir......no,uh......INQUIRING..yeah, that's it...Inquiring minds want to know!

catspaw

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 09:26 AM

Bbc. Cease this immediately! Catspaw is fresh out of the hospital, and things like this can "angry up his blood"! I'm sure in his younger days he could drool lasciviously over Annette, Jayne Mansfield and other sex-symbols from the fifties, but I have it on good authority that his doctor has prescribed a strict regimen of one hour a day's gazing at Betty Crocker, Aunt Jemima and Wilma Flintstone.
I, on the other hand would like to know all the details (for a science project) and would welcome a package (plain brown wrapper, please) to be delivered when Heather is not home.
Dr. Richard L. Fielding

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Stirling
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 10:24 AM

I'd like to know what was wrong with Wilma Flintstone?

That was one hot babe.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Fadac
Date: 16 Jun 99 - 11:09 AM

Stirling,

Wilma Flinstone, This is not a name to just banter about. She who it the pinical of all cartoon femdom. Well, we don't like to talk about it, but, well, first there was Betty Boop. A lovly young flapper. Then Wilma, Now it's Jesica Rabbit! She's not bad, just drawn that way.

-Fadac

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Stirling
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 10:56 AM

None....I repeat none...of the other cartoon females held a candle to Wilma...

Don't even get me started on Barney Rubble - what an actor. How the Emmy committee overlooked him time after time after time is completely beyond me.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 11:40 AM

Jack, you are probably right about Karl Marx, but I would like to see more emphasis on the good he did (if he did) in starting to rescue the world from the horrifying Victorian capitalism. Remember the history of Bryant and May, and the first ever strike led by women out of a women only workforce.

Fadac, you surely do Roosevelt a disservice by failing to point out that without him the great recession (the one before the one that Margaret Thatcher deliberately engineered to put the workers back in their places) would have lasted a great deal longer.

I'm from the UK and I'll nominate Nye Bevan, father of the welfare state (despite a sneaking admiration for Churchill, who proved what a chainsmoking alcoholic could do when his back was really against the wall)

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Peter T.
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 04:03 PM

Well, I think I have to change my mind (thanks to Richard's parenthesis), though it is a close run between Gandhi, the man of peace and the man of war. Churchill is obviously the most important person of the century, in spite of the newsreel cliches, and his limitations, and the endlessly tedious British self-congratulation, and the greater sacrifices of the Russians and so on. Coldly appraised, if it wasn't for him, it is pretty obvious that Britain would have fudged around, or at best fought to a temporary draw, and Hitler would have taken over the rest of Europe, and then Britain in time. Once Hitler had Britain, an American war for Europe would have been logistically impossible until the late 1960's (if ever). The war between Stalin and Hitler would have been even more hideous than it was. One can only begin to imagine what a Europe freely run by Hitler, and either winning or losing to Stalin would have been like. The War itself was only a grim warmup to that possibility. And a short delay time would have brought nuclear weapons. And if it wasn't for Churchill's friendship with and influence over Roosevelt, the Americans would have probably fought the Japanese first (assuming the Japanese still went to war which they were heading for anyway), and not second, and Hitler would have again won the battle of Europe. It was all so close.
We would probably be in the midst of, or the ruins of, huge continental atomic wars in the 1960's between the North Americans and the Russian or German conquerors of Europe.
The British crisis in 1940 might possibly have thrown up somebody who could do what Churchill did, but it was Churchill, after all. When you think about how close the appalling alternative last half-century was, in spite of everything, it has to be him. IMHO
Yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Fadac
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 04:34 PM

I think that the first hostilites (sp?) of WWII is credited to Japan. Didn't they go into China as early as 1936? Hitler & Stalin were bosom buddys...then.

BTW Churchill is (was) an American Citizen too. He is one of the very few that have been honored in this way. I think either Ike, or Kennedy confered this on him. I think it was just a year or so before he died. (I think his monther was American.) I have his books, and have even read them...What an ego, but I think that goes with the teritory.

Do you ever wonder what would have happened if Japan had never attacked Pearl Harbor? And suppose that Germany had stopped sinking ships within sight of New York? Then the US would have a hard time justifing getting into the war. Then suppose the peace that Chamberlan tried for, worked?

Of course all the great men of WWII, the Cold War, Korea, even atomic bombs, owe a debt to the Serb that shot Ferndnad. Just suppose that the pistol misfired that day? No WWI, No WWII, Hmmm. So I guess we owe our current history/situation on that lonly Serb. I think that was the biggest key/hinge point of this century.

Any other thoughts on key points of this century? Where one event changed things down the line.

-Fadac, just wondering suppose if...

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: annamill
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 04:50 PM

I'm glad someone mentioned Max. That's who I was going to nominate. He certainly has added something to my world.

But, if not Max, how about Tom Watson, the man who orginally created IBM.. Others invented the computer, but Tom put it out there. Remember "THINK". Great book. He started out as a peddler in upstate NY. Horse and all. He opened a world. Made great things possible. I'll bet even Mother Theresa used an IBM.

You'll please excuse me. After all, I am a programmer.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: Doctor John
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 05:13 PM

For the UK Jenny Lee, the widow of A. Bevan who had the vision of the Open University, giving access to higher education to all who wanted it. Chad Varah the founder of the Samaritans, a life saving organisation for people with no-one to listen.(He is also on the board of Forum - another lifeline for those who need it!)

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: bbc
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 06:38 PM

I'm sorry, but we have to get back to Dr. Ruth, at least long enough for me to answer catspaw & Rick. Boys, you need to read more carefully. I merely said I got ideas; I never said I did anything about them! catspaw, you are developing a serious slander problem! First, poor Rick, out in the garden, & now, trying to drag Duane down, too! Did I mention Duane in my post? No!!! I really did hear Dr. Ruth speak--back in another lifetime, when I was a young-married w/ toddlers. She has a summer home close to here & was doing a fund-raising speech for her lake association. Several of "the girls" & I went to hear her. She was a riot! Although I was being somewhat facetious when I nominated her (The thread was seeming awfully serious!), I was also somewhat sincere. Dr. Ruth speaks of sex openly, as a normal, wonderful part of life. I think more people need to see it that way & be able to discuss it. She has a website at Dr. Ruth Online and there is a short biography of her at Notable Immigrants, in case you are not familiar w/ her. She may also list tips for doughnuts & whipped cream!

Now, Dr. Fielding, I do appreciate you looking out for catspaw's health. We don't want him getting too excited. On the other hand, I can only hope that the reason you want items delivered in "plain brown wrappers" is so you can give Heather pleasant surprises when she comes home. BTW, don't they have doughnuts & whipped cream in Canada? I would think they would be better, fresh!

For the record, Duane & I have only consumed doughnuts & whipped cream in traditional ways, to date. My then-husband, when I communicated the amazing new ideas, was uncooperative. Perhaps that has something to do w/ his now ex- status. Sigh.

One final thought--I was feeling a little frisky when I posted & really appreciated catspaw & Rick responding. Thanks, guys!

Wishing love to all,

bbc

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From:
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 07:16 PM

Music: Arron Copeland Theatre: Tennessee Williams Politics: FDR Social Progress: Margaret Sanger/Rosa Parks Religion: Madeline Murray OHare Architecture: Bucky Fuller/ Frank Lloyd Wright Film:DW Griffith/ John Ford/Raul Walsh/ Art: Maxfield Parrish/Jack Kirby Publishing: Clare Booth Luce/Henry Luce Photography: Dr. Land/ Geo. Eastman.

DRM

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 99 - 07:47 PM

I am sooooo ashamed............Thanks bbc for the scolding as I am now a better man for it! I also want you to know that Heather has told me that it was not a groundhog, nor was it Rick, that was decimating her garden. Embarassingly enough, it was a cat.

However, I think you may wish to forward some of Dr. Ruth's suggestions to Dr. Rick, as I am also fearful from recent correspondence, that he still has a strong leaning toward the Barcalounger fetish which landed Reg, Reg, and Reg in jail. I'm sure any help would be appreciated.

And Duane.......since Barbara states you "have only consumed doughnuts and whipped cream in the traditional way to date," could you keep us posted if a new "to date" occurs? I mean it's not for me, but I think Cletus, Paw, and the Reg boys might enjoy it. None of them are any too hot at reading, so pix might be useful too.

catspaw (who loves you both)

Subject: RE: 'Your Country's Man/Woman of the Century'
From: bbc
Date: 18 Jun 99 - 09:34 PM

catspaw,

We, too, heard from Heather that the garden offender was a cat. Wish she had posted her discovery, though. Duane has some thoughts on Barcaloungers, doughnuts, & whipped cream that he'd like to discuss w/ you, when he gets around to it; he's been working too hard lately. He does, however, read or hear all of our goings-on & is highly amused.

love,

bbc