Origins: Dublin Lady

Subject: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:36 PM

I've known this song for about 25 years - Can anyone tell me ANYTHING about it - I Learned it from Mike McCready in Cornwall

Dublin Lady   

If it wasn't for the ships that do sail, that do sail,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail to Liverpool,
Dublin Lady would not have to sit so lonely on her stool,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail.

If it wasn't for the butter tubs and cattle in the pen,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail to Liverpool,
Dublin Lady would not miss her sailor now and then,
If it wasn't for the ship that do sail.

If it wasn't that the Irish Sea is narrow with no reef,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail to Liverpool,
Dublin Lady would not know just how to hide her grief,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail.

If it wasn't for the kegs of beer and the coal down in the hold,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail to Liverpool,
Dublin Lady would not have to spend her nights at home so cold,
If it wasn't for the ships that do sail.

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:43 PM

Dammit! It was in the DT all the time AND with an extra verse

Can anyone tell me anything about Patrick Carroll who's listed as author

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Declan
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:12 AM

Song was recorded by Andy M. Stewart and Manus Lunny on an album of the same name. I'll try to find the album later on and see if there is any information in the sleeve notes.

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Declan
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:29 PM

From the above album

"Dublin Lady" (Words and Music John Connolly Arr Manus Lunny)

We know very little about this beautiful song except that it was written by John Connolly, author of Fiddler's Green and other songs. This version is somewhat different from the original.

So anyone know if it was written by John Connolly or Patrick Carroll?

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:58 PM

Thanks Declan! You'm a champion!

I love Andy M Stewart's voice so hearing him do it would be special!

So! It may have been written by John Connolly?

Once again, many thanks

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:06 PM

A quick Google seems to concur that it's a John Conolly song, alright.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:22 AM

There used to be Patrick Carroll who was a regular at the old Florence Folk Club in Upper Street Islington, the precursor of the Islington Folk Club, who I'm sure was a poet/songwriter.

Of course if John Connelly wrote it then that info is not necessarily relevant!

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:49 AM

Note the spelling of Conolly . Not that the Web gets it right all the time, but you are more likely to find the right guy!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 08:21 AM

That's OK Martin I wasn't looking for him :-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:02 PM

So, are we quite certain this was a John Conolly song?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 07:47 PM

Thank you one and aall!

You are aall D I A M O N D S!

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:50 AM

Joe

I can find nothing online to support the Patrick Carroll attribution.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: GUEST,Patrick Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 11:48 AM

This song was written in 1966 with words by myself and music by Andy Irvine. It was first recorded in 1967 by Sharon Collen and then in 1968 by Noel Murphy. The Andy M. Stewart/Manus Lunny verison - mis- attributing the song to John Connolly (great writer but not of this song) was released in 1987. The singer/accordianist John Whelan included a song called Dublin Lady on his 1998 CD Flirting With the Edge where it is credited as Trad/Arr. - Whelan. I don't know for a fact that this is the same song but it would seem likely. Anyone wanting to know the full history of the song may visit http://www.patrickcarroll.co.uk and look at either the main site or the essay category where a account is given under the title The Old Punter's Cautionary Tale of a Ditty.
Peace agus agrah
Patrick Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 03:33 PM

Great essay Patrick.

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: GUEST,Peterr
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 05:01 PM

As always, your command of the English language is superb, even for an Irish American.
I can now understand (I think) the cautionary tale uninterrupted by the background sounds
of the Blue Anchor

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: Deskjet
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:33 PM

Apologies, the "great essay " comment was mine.

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: GUEST,Patrick Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:05 AM

Further to above comment damn me if a further Google search doesn't inform me that Andy Kim (Andy Kim, I'll trouble you!!?) is selling what I assume is his version of the song as a bloody ring-tone! Also that the Andy M. Stewart/Manus Lunny version has had over 3,000 hits on YouTube.
Mille murders!
P.T.C.

Subject: RE: Origins: Dublin Lady
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 08:17 PM

^^^^
Good bedtime read for budding songwriters -
just a paragraph or two from Patrick's fascinating depressing story
"Those of us who were, however tangentially, involved in the folk music revival of the 1950s, ‘60s and ‘70s wished not only to partake of various folk traditions but also in our own modest creations – written in what we perceived to be the Folk Idiom (or Idiot) – to become part of The Tradition. My own salient experience of this desire came one day in the late ‘60s when I was at Puck Fair in the Co. Kerry town of Killorglin. I was merrily slip-jigging from one pub to another when I heard a man I took to be a Traveller busking in the street. He was singing “Old Woman in Cotton”. I thought, “That’s it! You are now Trad/Anon. It’s all downhill from here.” On the other hand we would not have scorned a little recognition and, if there was any going, a bit of money for our efforts.

So, in sum, we then had a 49 year-old folk revival ditty that has been commercially recorded at least eight, probably nine and possibly ten times and has been at one time or another claimed by various different music publishers and once listed as Copyright Control. Neither of the song’s writers has ever received a penny in mechanical or performing royalties in respect of their creation. The present publishers having at one time – speciously in my view – dismissed the above-related history of the song as being none of their concern, did at one point undertake to do some chasing. The original dismissal of old history seemed to me to be somewhat cavalier as my understanding has been that a condition of any transfer of songs from one publisher to another – and I have as a publisher been involved in such transactions – stipulates that all outstanding royalties due to the writers have been paid. "

At one point the song had earned royalty credits of £19.30 but the publisher's policy was to pay when the balance reached £20.00. They then sold the rights to another company and the next statement he received was for £26.00 ... but the policy of the new company, of course, was to only pay out when the credit balance reached £30.00 !
https://www.patrickcarroll.co.uk/the-old-punters-cautionary-tale-of-a-ditty/