mentally ill club regulars

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:19 PM

Yeah, I know this is a dangerous area, so I've been watching the discussion. In general, I haven't seen a lot of posts that I would consider "mean-spirited," so we haven't deleted much.
Thank you all for handling this discussion with such maturity. Still, some of the posts refer to particular individuals with somewhat alarming specificity, and I don't think that's good for the persons involved. Better to talk about individuals privately.
I'm going to close this thread. If you want to start another thread on the topic, feel free to do so - but be careful to post in a way that individuals cannot be easily identified.
Thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 07:33 PM

I do hear ya, and understand and respect your feelings.

Please realize that performers coming to town might be there for a fifty dollar bill for the whole festival after driving 2 days across country to be there. (Chelsea House in Vermont) Being understanding when someone, out o' the blue, loudly comes down on you from the audience because "you are singing a different version of a song that he knows the right way." Nobody has clued you to his "problems"---and all you are is pissed off at the moron---who does it twice more during your set.

You just want to get out of town quick! And when you meet up with other singers on the road, tales are told over drinks. The humor of it becomes a saving grace. Laughing at his antics and trying to top each other with your own reminiscences of particular folks can be a theraputic time--before you must split.

I am only saying that some of you don't understand that hitting a town uninformed about the 1 or 2 locals who can be problematic is annoying at best. It feels, remarkably, like an assault. The gig has to be done---there is no time for real super sensitivity--you don't have enough info. ---You fill the tank and hit the road---still pissed that the outbursts weren't minimized better by those in the folk club---or, at least, explained better to you.

Another side of the coin. All of 'em do have two sides---at least 2.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM

I thought from the start that this thread could open a can of worms.
Think it's run it's course now.

JM

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:36 PM

I also know the person involved...but I must say the above posters have been pretty discreet. It would be entirely possible for him to read the posts above and not know he was the one being discussed.

Unless, of course, it's ME they mean :-)

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: peregrina
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM

Sorcha, Melissa, Tom and Virginia--I'm with you.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:12 PM

PMs sent to folks about this issue...

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Melissa
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:05 PM

I don't understand the need for topics like this. In my experience, common sense pretty much covers it..but, for the most part, I am pleasantly surprised that the touchy subject is being handled somewhat moderately.

Using someone as an 'example' was an indiscretion and the curiosity it sparked may be natural but it's not polite to talk about people.
Whether the guy is reading the thread or not, he's a Person and it's not nice to discuss him as if he was an Exhibit.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:51 PM

GOOD GODS, this thread has degenerated into nothing but gossip. Joe, it's TIME to just deal with this.


Jack, you really opened a can of worms here, buddy.

If I were the person being discussed/gossiped about above, I'd be pretty upset. If he is such a 'regular' on the East Coast FSGW scene, I think we can 'assume' that he looks in here....

And, Guest Tom Bliss, I AGREE!

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:16 PM

I agree 100% with VirginiaTam, and in fact believe posts such as the ones under discussion should be routinely and immediately deleted as a matter of common decency if not defamation.

It saddens me enormously that this post I am writing now contravenes the Mudcat editorial policy (because I'm referring to it) when damaging and insensitive posts above do not.

I'm sorry Joe, but I will not become a member while situations like this continue to arise here unchecked. And I will continue to believe that I should say so here, not in a private email to you as you request.

Tom

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Melissa
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM

I agree with VirginiaTam..discretion is a virtue.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:31 PM

Christ's sake!!!

Why must I say it again? Don't indicate specific people on a public forum where the person in question might read. It appears to the casual reader as nothing more than gossipy.

How would you feel if you happened onto a thread where acquaintances were discussing something potentially negative about you? It doesn't matter if you make positive or negative comments about the person. The fact that you are discussing his problem, or more appropriately your problem with him attending sessions, in a public forum is insensitive and unhelpful.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:49 PM

Art, Bill D, Mary, Steve and others - I too think I know the person you're referring to, and he shows at my performances as well.

Some of the folk-club organizers get mad at him because he can be a bit disruptive at times, but all in all, he's a harmless divil. Very knowledgeable about the music and musicians, which he will discuss loudly, in depth at less than the drop of a hat.

It's my belief that he has Asperger's syndrome.
He's less a pain in the ass than most drunks.

Seamus

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: trevek
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:39 PM

I used to play a session where a number of the regulars were mental health professionals... and, without trying to be funny, seemed to be very close to the boundary line themselves. Also, a couple of the band members (myself included)had had run ins with mental illness.

Other people who were supposedly 'healthy' were often obnoxious arseholes by the end of the night through the need to drink more than they should.

Not quite sure what I'm trying to say other than its not always that easy to tell and, in many cases, its not that (socially) important anyway if you're prepared to get past the prejudice and stigma (and that includes the PC attitudes too).

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 03:05 PM

I am not trained. But I worked as an administrator at a CMHT and I can tell you that a few of trained professionals (nurses, social workers and consultant psychiatrists) were hyper-emotional, out of control, manic/depressive, suicidal. It must be the stress of the job or the work attracts a type. I don't know.

What I do know is that I found it quite easy to quietly and attentively listen to the patients who were for the most part, genuinely lovely people, keen to be well and fully functioning. It did not cost me anything. It did not make matters worse. I hope it helped in any small way.

Kindness needs no training. One does need courage to be kind and tolerant. I think the big issue here is fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of the unusual, fear of doing more harm than good.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: romany man
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 02:18 PM

sorry no training needed you aint gotta be a doctor to know when somethings wrong, try bloody asking instead of hiding behind smoke screens, we have enough problems.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Maryrrf
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:09 AM

I think overall the folk community IS tolerant and understanding, but unless they are trained about the specific mental health condition involved there is only so much they can do to help an individual sufferer.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: romany man
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 08:47 AM

good luck mate and keep on going, i know the medication dont always help, in many cases it makes it worse, or it did in my case, as i say i only speak for my self and my experiences, ive seen and heard some real crap from so called enlightened people, its like saying im not racist i know one and often speak to them, what crap, dont talk about it, do it, whatever your it is, as i say im probably at some point gonna either get well again and live my life albeit changed somewhat, i doubt if i will ever run my own company again, or be in a position to not worry about bills etc, or im gonna not be around no more. thats the cold stark truth of it. again thats just me. others have different needs, but most of all the most common need to all of us, is tolerance and understanding , not bloody sympathy, and lukewarm words.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:18 AM

I used to suffer terribly with "anxiety" in my mid-twenties,and could be a real PAIN in folk-clubs,pub sessions etc., asking people for help,getting them to call ambulances,in some cases getting them to drive me to hospital themselves,blowing on my hands (to make sure I was still breathing !),taking my own pulse.It must have been AWFUL for people (it certainly was for me!),but I encountered nothing but kindness and understanding. So,a big THANKYOU to everyone in the "Folk Community" and God bless you all.What about now,though ?? Well,after Netley armed forces hospital,medical discharge from Royal Navy,years of general practitioners who didn't understand ,and fed me Librium,Valium,Barbiturates,and Monoamineoxydase Inhibitors (nasty things !), I finally got better after GIVING UP SMOKING and have been OK and drug-free for about eight years now !! There is a lesson there,I think. Well,certainly do NOT drink and take Librium at the same time,anyway !! I still like to play too loudly in sessions (attention seeking ??) but am much less trouble now,I think !! And so ,once again, a heartfelt THANKYOU to all folk-musicians and club audiences everywhere !!

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Simon G
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 05:00 AM

Well said Romany man, and keep saying it, we all need reminding so contain our prejudices and welcome everyone who wants to participate.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: romany man
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 04:39 AM

there are two sides to every theory, you have to back one or the other, as a sufferer, yes i mean sufferer, i see things one way ie i try to live my life as i should , but am aware that there are times when i cant, on the other hand there are people who think they have the god given right to say that oh you gotta problem, go else where, its no good bleating on about oh you are ill so i will be seen as a sympathetic caring sort of person who if you are lucky, i might even sit next to you , hell i mght even talk to you, oh look how good i am, and post threads to that . then there is the other side that says no looney, not on my watch, and then post threads to that general view, fine i can see both points , but however there is the middle road that gets missed, that is, ah that person has a problem, what can i do to find out more, in what way can i make a real difference, if you are uncomfortable with mental ill health, then look at what makes you uncomfortable and deal with it, sadly too many folkies seem to think that folk in all its forms is a purist area and only those that fit in and comply can have anything to do with it, god no wonder folk is seen as the poor relation in the entertainment world, folk is about people, good bad, black , white male female ill and well, not about some atificially set up area of music where only the best can join in.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Nov 08 - 02:50 AM

Well I feel bad for the fellow from DC and NY mentioned above. If he is "lurking" around Mudcat and reading this thread, how do think he feels about people openly talking about him? Makes no difference if the comments are negative or positive. It is insensitive to air what you think for everyone to see. If you truly cared, you would act appropriately with him and say nothing in a forum like this where everyone can read and make guesses, speculate and make judgements.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:12 PM

On we go!!

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM

Damn! This is a good thread and I'm going to have to read every post.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Suffet
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:42 PM

Greetings:

I also know the person from the DC area that Maryrrf, Bill D., and Art Thieme have been discussing, and there is a real chance that he is lurking here on Mudcat. He is intelligent and knowledgeable, as well as being a fairly good singer. He used to live in the New York City area and at one time long ago he served on the New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club board of directors. He still frequently comes up to he New York area.

All I want to say beyond that is whatever changes he has undergone have been gradual, and they haven't all been downhill. For example, he attended the picnic at Kytrad's house this past August, at which time he seemed much better than when he attended a house concert I gave for the FSGW two years earlier. He is still very much a valued part of our community, and those who have known him a long time continue work with him and support him as best as we can.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: romany man
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:20 PM

what a bloody can of worms has been opened, for those who wont understand , you need more help than me, for those that comply to political correctiveness, bollocks, to those that pussy foot around the issue , get real, and those that take the piss, i feel for you, my illness is not getting better but hell it aint gonna beat me, i will try and try to get my life back, this illness is and probably will kill me at some point, i have learned to be open about it, i will talk to anyone about how it feels to live life with this nightmare for so many years, please folks dont try and play the oh i know someone who has whatever, so that makes you feel better, please just try to find out or, even better try and see if you can help in some way, i like thousands of others have a life, im lucky i can walk, talk, and function ok, many cant, give time to think people please.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 10:02 PM

Bill D,
I believe I know him -- from years ago -- in D.C. concerts I did there--maybe at Piunewoods too. I don't recall a name, but was the other hobby to do with...oh, never mind. It doesn't matter, except that after I heard of his hobby I stayed completely away from him.
Before that I only wanted to stay away.

Art

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: quokka
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:38 PM

A couple of years ago I was at a gig where Matthew, a guy with Down's, invited himself up beside the singer and proceeded to sing along. The singer took it in his stride: When he broke his G string, Matthew kept singing,and he said: "Matthew, sing it for me - a man who knows the words to all my songs even though he's never met me before!" The next song was in Gaelic, sean nos style, and Matthew stood there but was quiet. After that he was persuaded to sit down. The singer's attitude was brilliant and everyone enjoyed the gig - especially Matthew!

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:43 PM

Jack...it is more than that. He has been a regular in the East coast of the USA folk scene for many years, and has been a delicate problem for most of those years. I 'think' the last few years it has gotten worse. He is simply unable to relate to others with normal social graces, and has very little concept of what is appropriate behavior. He has been 'told' that certain behavior will result is his not being able to attend events, so he stays just barely inside the 'line.'

He DOES know music & performers, and his 2nd favotite hobby is going to music events and 'telling' performers about times he has seen them and telling other attendees how TO see them.
(You don't want to know about his main hobby.)

We have a great deal of difficulty finding him housing at the Getaway, as NO ONE wants to be in a room near him.

He is not an unintelligent person, and has certain real technical skills, and does manage to live by himself.....he simply cannot carry on a true 'conversation' except on matters of exchanging information and data on music, time, memories...etc.

   Whether some sort of modified Tourette's is also involved, I can't say...it may well be, but it is not a classic form.

It is quite an awkward situation, though 'managable' most of the time.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:26 PM

One case brought up here that I don't think got answered right:

There is an individual [...] who seems to have some form of mental illness. There is certainly something 'odd' about him and I have seen him get a little disruptive at times - interrupting people, blurting things out during performances, etc. [...] The 'regulars' seem to have accepted his 'oddness' and have developed a way of gently dealing with him when he has his moments and he is obviously welcome at their events. I applaud their tact, kindness and generosity. I can tell that his participation and attendance is very important to him and is a source of great enjoyment. Due to his condition, and I have no idea what it is, I would doubt that he has many social outlets.

This sounds like Tourette's syndrome or some related tic disorder. It's more like a physical illness than a mental one - and a horribly embarrassing physical illness, like some kind of incontinence or disfigurement. There are now a few good autobiographical accounts of it available, and the world would be a happier place if more people read them. (I have a very mild and infrequent tic disorder, which has almost never emerged in public, but enough to understand what people with the more severe ones have to put up with).

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Maryrrf
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:01 PM

Greg B summed it up. There is no one answer - it has to be dealt with case by case, every situation/individual is different.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Greg B
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:34 PM

A few responeses... Acron: Wow, I really admire you. Not just for
parenting an autistic child but also for having sensitivity to the
feelings of others. Too many parents of average kids feel it's
their right to inflict their kids behavior problem du jour on
the rest of the world, lest they repress the little darlings. How
easy in your situation it would be to become completely self-involved!
But you haven't. That is very admirable.

John: If Rika's 'loss of music' happened prior to our first hearing
of her at Mystic two years back, I have to say that it's a case of
her having forgotten more about singing than most of us could ever
hope to know. That's one powerful chanteyman.

All: There are a couple of key aspects here which I learned from
experience.

The first is responsibility. A mentally ill person who is stabilized
by meds who elects to go off his or her meds truly is responsible
for the harm caused by that decision.

The other is risk. I have had an experience in the folk world with
a bipolar individual who made the above decision, and "acted out"
their particular pain by stealing. It was chosen to bar them from
folk club events (including camp) because we'd always felt like we
could go to bed with our instruments in a great pile in the dining
hall and come back to find them there in the morning. We valued
back. Their choice to leave the stability of treatment put that
at risk.

It's a case-by-case thing.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:19 PM

folk clubs are also social clubs .
folk concerts are something different.
folk clubs, hopefully, have a nucleus of regulars,who as well as enjoying similiar music,are a community,who support each other.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:33 PM

Preference, choice, whatever. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em---but go outside.

"Once you get used to it, insanity can be the most normal thing in the world!" (Avery Schreiber and John Brent "How To Speak Hip" -- 1960s)

Art

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Fortunato
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:38 AM

until I realized they were bipolar bears.

No Barry, I think he means that they shared their blubber (so to speak) with boy bears or girl bears.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Musket
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:14 AM

People suffer for their talent, and some of the best and most extremely talented artistes in any venture can be highly strung.

The more I think about it, the more I realise supernova talent is at least capable of a bipolar diagnosis.

Without them, great songs would not be written, great entertainment would not be available and we would be bored.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Acorn4
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:22 AM

The classic case of the left/right brain issue is the person who has a stammer, but can play the flute/sing perfectly. There are quite a few examples of this around clubs.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:34 AM

Is there a doctor in the house? The medical side of this intrigues me, since my partner Rika got encephalitis and lost all her music (and the left side of her body). She relearned how to sing, but the left side never came back, so her guitar was useless. She learned duet concertina and plays one side instead. Her loss of music reminded me of Oliver Sacks' accounts of music and brain damage - how some brain injuries completely buggered up speech but left the music alone. I wonder if music clubs are particularly good at attracting people with brain damage. I'm not speaking now of non-physical and non-chemical mental challenges (or maybe I am - I don't know how whether they are distinct or distinguishable from the aneurisms, etc.). In any event, if we've a neuro in our midste I'd love to hear more about the relationship.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Silas
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:32 AM

Out of respect for Joe and the other forum members I am not going to bite on Dianes baited hook, but I would say that those of us with experience of relatives with mental health problems would already know that these are valid human beings with problems that are just as real as damaged fingers or vocal chords. If I can take my brother/friend to a folk club and it gives him some pleasure, there is little enough pleasure in his life as it is, then I will do so. Everyone who take the time and (very little) trouble to get to know him a little find him to be a delightful chap, despite his obvious problems. I am fortunate in that he sits quietly enjoying himself and is no trouble to anyone, except when he hears a piece he particularly likes - his enthusiastic response can sometimes embarrass the performer. However, even if he were not quite so well behaved I would seek admittance for him, even if it was for short periods, to the average person he may not seem to be someone who is able to contribute much, and possibly that is true, but his disability should not be further punished by exclusions like this.

Saying that they are not my problem is helpful to no-one, and the real losers are the uncaring.

//

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:41 AM

Some years ago I knew a young (very young) chap who got told at his local session by a bombastic concertina player (not that all of them are like that but this one was / is) that he should get back home and stay there till he was able to play out, In a lot of cases, I'd even agree in principal but not this time. Ten years on, this erstwhile pre-teenager is a member of a top band and was a Young Folk Award finalist a couple of years ago. Said concertina player is nowhere, though probably still throwing his weight about. Is he genuinely "ill" or just a jealous, frustrated no-mark? Actually, I don't care. People's sicknesses, mental and physical, whether chemically-fuelled or not, are principally their concern alone (and that of professionals should they choose to involve them) and interfering (or "trying to help" as it is sometimes termed, is generally spectacularly unproductive and prone to backfire.

Speaking personally, there's no-one who could possibly "help" cure my damaged finger which prevents me from playing accurately or my vocal problem (finally diagnosed as dysphonia) so I don't want a thread about it but you can be thankful I remain unable to perform if you like. If I choose to feel down about it, for fuck's sake leave me alone.

Those who behave inappropriately in public (not just in "clubs") are just being a pain. Analysing and sympathising ain't gonna help. Probably the opposite. Then there are those cyber nutters with sod all to contribute but nothing better to do who launch into threads like this to air their paranoid, delusionary grievances. If some of you believe a "community" should be caring for them, let it not be mine.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 02:10 AM

Art, does that mean that the 2 of them were cold?

Barry

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:53 PM

Think back to the content of the first post in this thread.

Far be it from me to repeat myself ever, but as I may have intimated in another post of mine in this Forum: I was doing a set of songs in Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo (mid 1970s)and the stage was set up in front of the bears. The animals in one enclosure were acting just as was described in that initial post. I was annoyed -- until I realized they were bipolar bears.

ART THIEME

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: GUEST,Just a thinking
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:47 PM

I have a friend he is now 18 years old who has been going to Pub's and Folk Clubs since he was a baby in arms. He suffers from Down's syndrome or dose he in fact suffer? Everyone who I know loves him people from far a wide return to his home town on Holiday year after year and say hello to him. He might have hearing problems and speech problems but he can sing a song with so much feeling he can make you cry. Oh and he still believes in Santa Claws I can tell you that watching him around Christmas Time will restore your faith in the human race.

Why is he so special? Well it's the way he has been brought up in part but it's also himself. I'm not going to put my name to this as I don't want you to be able to pick him out. Just remember that the fact is you do not know what someone can achieve or contribute until you give them the chance to do so.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: MAG
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:13 PM

I have a public service job and we see lots of people outside the normal range of behavior.

A certain amount of tolerance comes with the territory; and, we have to set very firm limits with some. including time limits for being there.

I am with those who want a performance venue to be pleasant for the majority of attendees. I have bipolars in my family, and however much I love them, I don't think they should disrupt a public event. Same for the current active alcoholic in the family. her attention-getting behavior has us all wanting not to see her.

It can be a very fine line; if you have not dealt with someone seriously behavior impaired, you may not have the whole picture.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:38 PM

Ken, you didn't need to go so naked, but it was good that you did.   I think and hope that most of us will support you and try to empathise.

A friend of mine is bipolar for many years. A great musician on the upphase. You can't work a band with him on the downphase. It blew a 5,000 seater gig for me and some others who were riding in the back of his talent.

It also resulted with him living at my gaff for a while as a bail condition while he was on bail for attempted murder. Up or downphase when in the grip of his drug of choice (alcohol) he can be very disruptive.

But most of the time, while mildly ratted, he's a very definite asset to a session.

Moral: judge not lest ye be judged.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:31 PM

Cognitive impairments are different from learning disabilities. Notwithstanding that, there are many people, including educational psychologists, who don't, can't, or won't differentiate between the two, which, ironically, is a sort of cognitive impairment and learning disability of it's own.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Dave Earl
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:22 PM

"Treat everybody with the friendship and respect that you would hope to receive yourself. It won't always help but it's not likely to harm either."

Yes - If only more people would.

Speaking as someone with my own (physical) "challenges" I've been on the receiving end of some of the things being discussed here. If people behaved in the way suggested by the poster of the above there wouldn't be half the problems in Society.

Dave

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:20 PM

Romany man, thank you for your honest and open post.

The use of 'language' has been discussed long and often below the line, usually prefixed with 'Political Correctness gone mad'!

As Jack points out, as an English social worker, I find the term 'mentally retarded' very offensive although, as a life long sufferer from dyslexia, I aslo appreciate the inappropiate use of other terms as a cover-all!

While we cannot accomplish 'social engineering' by the mere use of language I still believe that it should be possible/desirable to avoid words that have become 'corrupted' by usage as a term of abuse.

My apologies to anyone offended by my terminology; I maybe sought to refrain from some of the more 'graphic' descriptions provided and which I too have observed in my career.

Always remember it has been estimated that 'about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.'

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Tangledwood
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:57 PM

We used to have a woman that attended our sessions, not all the time but fairly regularly. She could be a little irritating in that she would be frequently moving around and disrupting others in the process - nothing more than that, and her flute playing was a welcome addition to the session. Earlier this year she failed to make a planned family meeting and after a few days of searching her car was found in bushland. It was a month after that her body was found, apparently having suicided.

After that we learned that she had long term problems with depression but close friends, family, and even her psychiatrist, didn't recognise the imminent risk.

What can we all learn from this? I'm not sure, but I suppose we should recognise that any person we meet may be dealing with issues we know nothing about. Treat everybody with the friendship and respect that you would hope to receive yourself. It won't always help but it's not likely to harm either.

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:31 PM

OK, Miskin Andy, I hereby APOLOGISE profrusely! Sorry! It's the 'text' thing again, I think. And yes, cognative IS a better word!

Subject: RE: mentally ill club regulars
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM

Romany man,
I felt every word of what you have written, it is so accurate and heartfelt.
I have a feeling that generally people are becoming more aware of mental health issues and I sincerly believe that things will gently get better.