Australian Songs of Influence

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:09 PM

G'day Charley, Rich-Joy and all,

One day I'll get my internet connection to be reliable (probably by ceasing to depend on Telstra's "slack string and tin can" facilities)!

Rich-Joy gave a good summing up of The Pub Without Beer .. and it can't really be said to have been composed "under the influence" ... as it commemorates the fact that all the local pub's round Townsville were drunk dry - celebrating victory in the Coral Sea Battle. Gordon Parsons' Pub with no Beer, published 17 years later clearly draws on Paddy Sheahan's original ... but has been simplified to fit to a (simplified) version of Beautiful Dreamer - and to write in references to his friends around his own local pub.

There are a number of good songs being proposed in this thread (even if we are not sure what is needed ... if and when the fore-shadowed museum eventuates). Given my current difficulties just getting a dozen, or so, musicians from the Bush Music Club's Monday Night Music Session to agree on what influences them ... I don't think my overheated brain is ready to offer any insights!

Regard(le)s,

Bob

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:01 PM

Indeed...we had a thread years ago on the song... Craigielee/Waltzing Matilda

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: cobber
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:38 PM

I played on a local concert on Saturday night in Taradale, a tiny country town in Central Victoris (Australia)that is trying to raise money for their local festival which in turn helps the Country Fire Authority. The town was threatened by a bushfire last week and it was only the dedication and heroism of the local fireman plus a little bit of luck, that savde the town. As you can imagine there was a good turnout and all the acts were local volunteers. There was a trio of sitar, tabla and the other onhe that looks like a sitar but isn't. At the end of their act they played a raga based on Waltzing Matilda and the whole crowd burst into song. Despite many Aussies cringeing, or pretending to, when this is brought up as being our favourite national song, you really can't get away from it. As a song, it's not fantastic but as an anthem that draws people together and allows them to share a sense of national identity it is fiercely Australian, even if the yanks own the copyright and the original tune was a thing called Craigielee, or so I'm told. Incidentally, my most embarrasing moment as a musician was playing on the back of a truck at the Melbourne Cricket Ground in the lunch break on an England - Australia one day cricket match, parked in front of the old Bay thirteen, and forgetting the words to Waltzing Matilda. That sure felt influential to me, I can tell you.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

I must diagree with you Andrez. I am sure that when John "Jocka" Burns sang "We meet them at the door" it Influance some Australians in Australia, even if it was only those that were evicting the workers in Union Street.
I am sure many of the other songs mentioned did likewise.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:18 PM

"Lots of songs proposed are of import to individuals but would they be considered influential in a national sense? I suspect not. In fact by that criterion I'm not sure that there are really any takers at all but I'm willing to stand corrected.

Cheers,

Andrez "


At our folk club yesterday somebody sang something from the "folk revival" era, mentioning it as one of the "songs that changed the world" . . . then added that it was just as relevant today.   ????

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:06 PM

'm used to punchin' bullock teams across the hills and plains.
I've teamed outback for forty years through bleedin' hail and rain.
I've lived a lot of troubles down, without a bloomin' lie,
But I can't forget what happened just five miles from Gundagai.

'Twas getting dark, the team got bored, the axle snapped in two.
I lost me matches and me pipe, so what was I to do?
The rain it was coming on, and hungry too was I,
And me dog shat in me tucker-box five miles from Gundagai.

Some blokes I know have stacks of luck, no matter where they fall,
But there was I, Lord love a duck, no bloody luck at all.
I couldn't heat a pot of tea or keep me trousers dry,
And me dog shat in me tucker-box five miles from Gundagai.

Now, I can forgive the bleedin' team, I can forgive the rain.
I can forgive the damp and cold and go through it again.
I can forgive the rotten luck, but 'ang me till I die,
I can't forgive that bloody dog, five miles from Gundagai.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:04 PM

I would Like to nominate, the dog shat in the tuckerbox 8 miles from gundegai,thereis even a statue to the dog,.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Reinhard
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:26 PM

And don't forget Mark Gregory's wonderful site Australian Folk Songs whose lyrics I regularly use for comparing with e.g. A.L. Lloyd and Martyn Wyndham-Read songs.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:29 PM

It might save a bit of time to explore the site of Warren Fahey, a collector of long-standing. He has songs, stories and lore in abundance.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s band
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM

To Dave Hall. Dave here`s another verse to your song.

"I`ve had liquid laughs in bars.
And I`v hurled from moving cars
And I`ve chucked up where and when it pleases me.
But if I could choose the spot
To re-gurgitate my lot
Then I`d chunder in the old Pacific sea".

I`m sure it is all the work of Barry Humphries.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: topical tom
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:23 AM

Many thanks for the lyrics and melody, Reinhard.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:25 AM

The banks are all broken they say,
And the merchants are all up a tree;
When the Big Boys are brought
To the bankruptcy court,
What chance for a squatter like me?

Relevant again but not necessarily influential.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:03 AM

Just biding time while waiting for Guest Dominique to reappear. In the meantime its really worth getting some consensus on what we mean by the term "influential".

Lots of songs proposed are of import to individuals but would they be considered influential in a national sense? I suspect not. In fact by that criterion I'm not sure that there are really any takers at all but I'm willing to stand corrected.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Reinhard
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:22 AM

This is The Road to Gundagai from Paterson's book Old Bush Songs. A.L. Lloyd sang it on Australian Bush Songs (1956) and Across the Western Plains (1958) and Martyn Wyndham-Read sang it with A.L. Lloyd singing chorus on The Great Australian Legend (1971). Tevor Lucas sang it as Lazy Harry's on his LP Overlander (1966).

The verses are already in the Digital Tradition database.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: topical tom
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:39 PM

I remember hearing sung a song titled "On The Road to Bandaguy"(spelling?)which contained these lines:

          There's beer to knock you sideways
          And girls to make you cry
          When you stop at "Lazy Harry's" on the road to bandaguy.

Perhaps the title was "Lazy Harry's" though I don't think so.Does anyone have more lyrics and the tune to this song?

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:10 PM

I must mention John "Jocka" Burns who sang "We meet them at the door", I believe sometimes called "Bankstown Evictions and fairly recently recorded by Alistair Hulett and Dave Swarbrick as "The Siege of Union Street" (I always feel a little confused as to the actual name of this song, and to its actual location, there have been previous threads on this subject.
Jocka also sang an interesting version of "Bubbles", also "The red flag" and "The Internationale", I think you may gather from these songs where Jocka's political connections were.
Certainly Jocka influanced Australia in the twenties and thirties when severe problems were felt mainly by workers and even the rich to some extent.
I recently saw Alistair Hulett twice, once in in Otley and the other in Adelaide where this latter function, I believe that was organised by green flag, he sang "The Internationale" at both and he certaily did it justice.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Dave Hall
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 01:07 PM

I used to sing two songs from Oz. One was about a shearer called "Bluey Brink" but the other didn't really have a title but I always called it "The Chunder Song" because it was all about expressions for 'being sick!'
The first verse went:-

"I was down on Bondi Pier drinking tubes of ice-cold beer,
A bucketful of prawns upon me knee.
When I swallowed the last prawn I had a technicolor yawn
And I chundered in the old Pacific Sea.
Ch
Drink it up; drink it up.
Share another dozen tubes and prawns with me.
If you want to throw your voice
Then you won't have any choice
But to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

Cheers,

Dave

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:29 PM

I suppose someone had to say it, Dave. And he has influence by the bucketload, no doubt about that.

Helen

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM

Anything by Kevin ' Bloody ' Wilson.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:15 AM

Hi Capt'n :
According to his book "Songs from the Canefields", Dan Sheahan came from Dalwogan, Ireland to Australia, in 1905.
He fought for Australia in WW1 and marched in the Anzac Day parades until he was about 93 years of age.
He wrote many poems and his "A Pub Without Beer" was published in FNQ (Far North Queensland) in 1944.
(BTW, the Gordon Parsons' song "The Pub With No Beer" was dated 1958.)


White Australia is still a relatively young country (!), and many's the person to proudly claim two nationalities!!


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 12:47 AM

Paging Bob Bolton - email sent (his home connection does not work, so he's only on line at work)

sandra

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:05 PM

the pub with no beer,was written by an irishman,from the cork, kerry borders.
its not Australian,slim dusty may have recorded it ,but it was written by an Irishman who went to live in Australia .

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:55 PM

Then there are the Australian songs composed under the influence!

The Pub Which Has No Beer

Where is Bob Bolton when we need him?

Cheerily,
Charley Nolbe

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM

It has only been a couple of days since Dominique posted her original question. She obviously doesn't know the speed with which Mudcatters come up with info, so she may not drop back in for a few more days. A long time in Mudcat years is a short time in real life (like Rip Van Winkle).

I agree that folk music is not influential to the wider public, although it probably influences musicians like Paul Kelly who then builds on the ideas in his own work.

Helen

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: nager
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 05:12 AM

Has anyone mentioned John Williamson with "True Blue" or Peter Allen with "I Still Call Australia Home". These are songs which the general public identify with. There are whole lists of songs in the Australian "pop" and "country music" arenas which would "influence" more people than the very small percentage of people who listen to local folk music. Not knocking our local folkies but very few people know them, as Hrothgar says above. I have tried on numerous occasions over the years to get family, friends and workmates to listen to local folk music through my Cds etc but they just don't like it one little bit when I play them. So,if you are looking for "truly influential songs" (whatever that really means) I believe you are not going to find them in the folk music arena.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 04:21 AM

Yep, I agree with the Devils Advocate and intend to go on a one person strike from this thread until Dominique returns to the fray.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 04:09 AM

"Now, how many of these songs are truly influential on the general public, and how many are popular with folkies?"

That's why I'd like to find out the OP's terms of reference before answering.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 03:34 AM

Now, how many of these songs are truly influential on the general public, and how many are popular with folkies?

Ask the average person in the street about John Dengate, Judy Small, or John Warner, and they will gaze at you blankly.

Ask them about Eric Bogle or Ted Egan, and you might do just a little better.

The pop/rock singers might be better known, but how many of the songs are influential?

"Only Nineteen" could have made people aware of the plight of many Vietnam veterans, and "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" could either make more people interested in Anzac Day, ot might be regarded as anti-war by ordinary people.

There are a few others that might strike a chord if people heard them, but they don't hear them - Bogle's "Shelter" or mTony Miles' "Enola Gay" for example.

Possibly "God Save the Queen" and "Advance Australia Fair" have more effect on people, negative or positive, than any of the songs we like to think of as important.

I love being the Devil's Advocate.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:39 PM

The only influence that Cold Chisel's song Khe Sanh had on Australia was an incorrect one. There was no Australian military involvement in the Khe Sanh battles / region. It was an American show from beginning to end. If there had of been Australians there it would have been a victory - rather than a defeat.

JG / FME

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM

In addition to the poems of Henry Lawson there are also the poems of Banjo Patterson which have been adapted for singing.

And here's another vote for John Warner and John Dengate

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Andrez
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 07:36 PM

It would be nice if guest Dominique made some attempt to provide more information on her project before people actually spend time responding in a more thoughtful vein..... especially when the outside temp is 43 degrees C.

Shutting the computer down and heading for the pool!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:56 PM

.... and sorry, but no matter how you feel about it, I reckon SHADDAP YOU FACE (Joe Dolce) qualifies too! LOL!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~dwomen/files/JDWelcome.html/

Cheers, R-J

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:52 PM

I thought Clementine was Australian--Is it?

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:46 PM

I reckon : GURINDJI BLUES (Ted Egan) and (don't laugh) : SUN ARISE (Rolf Harris and Harry Butler) have both gotta be in there.
Likewise FROM LITTLE THINGS, BIG THINGS GROW (Kev Carmody and Paul Kelly)

That's just for starters ...


Cheers, R-J


Gurindji Blues

Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Me bin sit down this country
Long time before the Lord Vestey
Allabout land belongin' to we
Oh poor bugger me, Gurindji.
Poor bugger blackfeller; Gurindji
Long time work no wages, we,
Work for the good old Lord Vestey
Little bit flour; sugar and tea
For the Gurindji, from Lord Vestey
Oh poor bugger me.
Poor bugger me, Gurindji,
Man called Vincent Lingiari
Talk long allabout Gurindji
'Daguragu place for we,
Home for we, Gurindji:
But poor bugger blackfeller, Gurindji
Government boss him talk long we
'We'll build you house with electricity
But at Wave Hill, for can't you see
Wattie Creek belong to Lord Vestey'
Oh poor bugger me.
Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Up come Mr: Frank Hardy
ABSCHOL too and talk long we
Givit hand long Gurindji
Buildim house and plantim tree
Longa Wattie Creek for Gurindji
But poor bugger blackfeller Gurindji
Government Law him talk long we
'Can't givit land long blackfeller, see
Only spoilim Gurindji'
Oh poor bugger me.

Poor bugger me, Gurindji
Peter Nixon talk long we:
'Buy you own land, Gurindji
Buyim back from the Lord Vestey'
Oh poor bugger me, Gurindji.
Poor bugger blackfeller Gurindji
Suppose we buyim back country
What you reckon proper fee?
Might be flour, sugar and tea
From the Gurindji to Lord Vestey?
Oh poor bugger me.

Oh ngaiyu luyurr ngura-u
Sorry my country, Gurindji.

© Ted Egan


PS   see new book just out on this very issue, by Maleny artist, Peter Hudson and featuring paintings by the Aboriginal kids of the area ...

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 09:08 AM

as well, check out The great John Dengate

and here is a link to Judy Small's website

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:51 AM

sorry, some of what I wrote went missing there. The Bushwhackers performed in the 50s, Barbara Lysiak's daughter Kate is still singing Australian bush songs in a band in the Blue Mountains.

Also check out The Ballad of 1891 and The Songs of Henry Lawson put to music by Chris Kempster.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:38 AM

The original Bushwhackers with a few blokes and Barbara Lysiak started the Australian folk revival in the esongs at dances in the Blue Mountains.

Declan Affley started the group 'The Wild Colonial Boys' in Melbourne in 1969, which combined Irish and Australian music. He convinced Bob McInnes, Jim Fingleton (Canberra) and Jacko Kevans (then Sydney based) to put their lives on hold and move to Melbourne to join the band. The other band member was Irish singer Tony Lavin. 'The Wild Colonial Boys' became the standard model for many successive Aussie folk bands. Declan and band members appeared in Tony Richardson's 'Ned Kelly' film.

(When I was a teenager I used to listen to my heroes Bob McInnes playing fiddle and Jacko Kevans on concertina at bush dances at the Yarralumla Woolshed in Canberra).

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 08:27 AM

What Helen said. As well..

Whaling Songs of Harry Robertson

This CD can be found at the National Library, Canberra. Harry Robertson was highly influential - among other songs he wrote the Wee Pot Stove, later popularised by Nic Jones in the UK.

Contact Rob Willis through the National Library, he is still collecting Australian songs and has a huge knowledge of Australian folk music history.

Reedy River is a musical play set in the period after the 1890s shearers' strike. The play was written by Dick Diamond and performed by the Melbourne New Theatre in 1953, featuring the band the Bushwhackers and Chris Kempster (1933-2004) who had set Henry Lawson's poem 'Reedy River ' (1896) to music in 1949. It was directed by Marie Armstrong.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:54 AM

Wonderful, thanks for the links Sandra.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:42 AM

Miners dream of home, NLA digital collection

Leo Dryden, Wikipedia

req/ADD: Miner's Dream of Home

Leo Dryden wrote the music & Will Godwin wrote the words & they both seem to be British music hall folks

sandra

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:21 AM

And I've always thought of "The Miner's Dream of Home" as Australian. Is it?

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:16 AM

The Song of the Thrush!... Well it influenced ME anyway.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Helen
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 01:02 AM

Sorry, nager, I couldn't resist. Forgive my feeble attempt at "having a go". :-)

Quokka,

I can never seem to sort out the two bands and their songs, and I was trying to remember which was which when I posted above: Goanna - 'Solid Rock' and Redgum - 'I was Only Nineteen'. Some sort of weird mental block, I know.

Helen

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 07:00 PM

"soon to be opened Museum of Democracy in Canberra"

Dominique, can you tell us something about your Museum, I can't find anything about it using Google Australia & it sounds like a place I'd love to visit when I'm in Canberra.

sandra

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: bfdk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM

Redgum... oh, I love them :-)

It's a bit tricky when you merely say 'songs of influence'. What kind of influence, political or any kind?

How about Wendy Joseph's 'Year of the Drum', would that suit you?

Eric Bogle's 'Shelter'?

Please be a bit more specific, then it's easier to come up with suggestions.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: oldhippie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:50 PM

Eric Bogle's "And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda"

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: Tangledwood
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:33 PM

"I'm wondering what songs people feel are the truly influential Australian songs? "

Could you expand a bit on what you are looking for; do you want songs that have had an influence, which implies getting frequent airplay and being well known; or songs which have a definite message e.g. political, but not necessarily well known?

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: quokka
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:40 AM

John - Ted Egan wrote 'The Drover's Boy' - very powerful song. Look him up, he's a very interesting guy.

Cheers,

Quokka

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: John Routledge
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM

Written by Ted Egan.

Subject: RE: Australian Songs of Influence
From: quokka
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:38 AM

Are you looking at a particular era? Style? There are a few rock and folk/rock songs that certainly deserve a mention:

Midnight Oil - 'Beds Are Burning'
Goanna - 'Solid Rock'
Paul Kelly ( virtually everything he wrote)
Kev Carmody (ditto)
Icehouse - 'Great Southern Land'
Redgum - 'I was Only Nineteen'
Cold Chisel - 'Khe Sanh'
Weddings Parties Anything - 'Scorn of the Women'

Many others...

Cheers,

Quokka