P.C. version Drunken Sailor

Subject: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Cllr
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:32 PM

I nearly put this in BS but it is about folk music so...

cut and paste form the bbc website


"Drunken sailors" have been removed from the lyrics of a nursery rhyme in a government-funded books project.

But the Bookstart charity says the re-writing of What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor? has "absolutely nothing to do with political correctness".

The charity says that the shift from drunken sailor to "grumpy pirate" was to make the rhyme fit a pirate theme, rather than censorship.

"Put him in the brig until he's sober," has also been lost in the new version.

This latest ideological spat over nursery rhymes was sparked by the re-writing of What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor.

'Rusty razor'

Bookstart, a project that encourages parents to read with their young children, has produced a different version - with no references to alcohol-swigging sailors.

PIRATES AHOY!
What shall we do with the grumpy pirate?
What shall we do with the grumpy pirate?
What shall we do with the grumpy pirate?
Early in the morning

Hooray and up she rises
Hooray and up she rises
Hooray and up she rises
Early in the morning

Do a little jig and make him smile
Do a little jig and make him smile
Do a little jig and make him smile
Early in the morning


Instead the hard-drinking sea shanty has been turned into something gentler, with lyrics such as "Tickle him till he starts to giggle, Early in the morning."

The charity has dismissed accusations that this is a politically-correct attempt to avoid the alcohol references, saying that it was a case of re-cycling a familiar tune for reading events that were based on a pirate theme.

"We wanted to find a rhyme which would fit in with this subject and this one has a tune which is instantly recognisable by all," said a statement from Bookstart.

"The inclusion of action lyrics like 'wiggle' and 'tickle' offer parents and small children an opportunity to interact, have fun and enjoy acting out the rhyme together."

Although the Drunken Sailor version familiar to children already leaves out some of the saltier verses.

The original includes such suggestions as: "Shave his belly with a rusty razor", "Stick him in a bag and beat him senseless" and "Put him in the hold with the captain's daughter."

The captain's daughter was a euphemism for a lashing from a cat o' nine tails.

Baa-baa

This is the latest in a series of disputes over nursery rhymes.

There were complaints in 2006 about pre-school children attending two nurseries in Oxfordshire being taught "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep".

Last year, a story based on the Three Little Pigs fairy tale was turned down by a government agency's awards panel as the subject matter could offend Muslims.

A digital book, re-telling the classic story, was rejected by judges who warned that "the use of pigs raises cultural issues".

However, a study in 2004 showed that nursery rhymes exposed children to far more violent incidents than an average evening watching television - including Humpty Dumpty's serious head injury.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Cllr
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM

befoe someone else says it: to quote Captain Jack Sparrow

But why is the rum gone?

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 08:43 PM

What shall we do with the sober sailor?

Indeed. that is something to ponder.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:45 PM

Beats me why piracy is more correct than drunkenness!

What shall we do with the miserable murderer...
What shall we do with the pathetic plunderer...

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:51 PM

If this version is supposed to be oh so politically correct, then why does it encourage young children to go around tickling grumpy, strange men?

.... "Tickle him till he starts to giggle".

Asking for trouble, methinks.

They should leave well alone!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Cllr
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:16 AM

sorry another thread on this was started three hours earlier could some one combine

cllr
I did a quick search on drunken not on alcohol so i missed it

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 07:38 AM

When will people realise, shantys are NOT childrens songs, one of my pet hates is things getting ' cleaned up ' either for publishing, broadcasting or so that they are fit for ' decent ' people or kids to hear.

Dave H

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

"What shall we do with the grumpy teacher" might give scope for imaginative children to come up with an interesting variant. They could keep in the stuff about rusty razors...

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: goatfell
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 09:08 AM

this is why I hate politcal correctness and they people that use it I like people that speak their minds and are not afraid to do so and if people get upset well tough that's life

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 09:54 AM

So its O K for a folk singer to put his own words to a well known tune
but not a nursery writer ?

(just indulging in bit of trolling or possibly a different way of looking at it)

Gerry

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:04 AM

Let anyone rewrite as they wish. The song is public property. Time will sort out the wheat from the chaff(and what's wrong with chaff anyway?. Everyone writes their own words for shanties in any case.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:06 AM

Written on a roughish ferry back from Stromness (Orkney) to Scrabster after the 2006 Orkney Folk Festival: yes, Gerry, folkies do borrow songs and re-vamp them!

1.         What shall we do with the drunken folkie? X 3
        Earleye in the morning.

Chorus: Weigh hey and up she rises, etc

2.        Put her on a ferry bound for Scrabster, etc

3.        Tie all the drinks down to the tables, etc

4.        Piper's on the stern deck playing for dancing, etc

5.        Highland Schottische makes Janet feel seasick, etc

6.        Better make sure you have the sick bags handy, etc
       (Chorus of retching noises! and up she rises!)

7.        Cars on the car deck rocking and rolling, etc

8.        Singing all the songs about the sea and shipwrecks, etc

9.         Let's all wave to the Old Man of Hoy, etc

10.        Smoother by far is the Superfast ferry, etc

11.        Bet that we're all coming back next year, etc
        That's one thing that's certain.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 04:57 PM

Dave H,
It's equally as valid to sing shanties in schools as it is to sing them in folk clubs. Both are artificial venues for the material but so what!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:31 AM

Dead right Steve and Gerry, I'm turning into a real grumpy old git, it is folk music and therefore people can do it any way at all and it's OK.

Dave H

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 05:52 PM

What shall we do with goddam moron who fails to notice that you can't pick up a turd by clean end?
Let the politically correct do what they will, they are ultimately of no consequence.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Fidjit
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:51 AM

Just for kids

What shall we do with the ped O phile ?

Answers on a fifty page manuscript.

Chas

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:59 AM

In a similar vein, one of the daftest politically correct changes to a traditional song I was told about recently is a school which has changed one of the verses in "The Farmer's in his den" from "The farmer wants a wife" to "The farmer wants a partner" - so as not to offend children whose parents aren't married, and presumably also those who have same sex parents.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:28 AM

Isn't The Drunken Sailor shanty a good moral lesson for kids, just the way it is? The sailor is punished for being drunk and not doing his job.

Kids are smarter than some adults think.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:51 AM

Guest, the last word of your comment was unnecessary

Cheers!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST,English Jon.....
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 11:04 AM

What shall we do with a drunken sailor?
What shall we do with a drunken sailor?
What shall we do with a drunken sailor?
Earl - eye in the morning...

Get to the root of his alcohol problem!
Get to the root of his alcohol problem!
Get to the root of his alcohol problem!
Earl - eye in the morning...

Try to understand the bastard....

Maybe he was bullied when he was younger....

It's not his fault it's society's fault....

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:26 PM

Point 1: anybody can write any kind of nursery rhyme they want.

Point 2: you mean there are people whose first-choice description of "Drunken Sailor" is as a "nursery rhyme"?

Point 3: the "captain's daughter" means the captain's daughter. The "gunner's daughter" (they say) meant a deck gun over which someone would be tied for a flogging.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:46 PM

Presumably,these people,who would tinker with our musical heritage in the "politically insane" ( I hesitate to use the word "correct")interests of their childrens' sensibilities,will now ENSURE, absolutely and unconditionally, that said children will NEVER have access to contemporary songs such as " Viva Californication ! " ( assuming they have the brains to draw the intended ,and not very subtle inference therefrom !!). And do NOT let them watch "Captain Pugwash"on TV as, in certain countries ie Australia, "Pugwash" means "Blow-job". Poor kids,I feel so sorry for them today !!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:50 PM

I think the bit about "the farmer takes a partner" is much more worrisome/laughable than the drunken sailer bowdlerization.

Kias ARE smarter than many adults give~ even educators who should know better from first-person experience.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:51 PM

Not to put too fine a point on it, but some students at a U.S. university recently nailed the whole P.C. clan with the following definition:

Political Correctness: "The advancement of the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:52 AM

Anyone care to try a PC version of "Mad Tom of Bedlam?"

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Fidjit
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:49 AM

Lets not get them onto "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" theme again.

Don't talk to strangers.

Chas

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Cool Beans
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:28 PM

Reminds me of Stan Freberg's P.C. version of Old Man River, whic he he wrote and recorded decades before the phrase "politically correct" existed:
Elderly Man River,
That Elderly Man River,
He must know something
But he doesn't say anything...

I can't remember how he cleaned up "Get a little drunk and you lands in jail," but I bet someone out there can.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:41 PM

What about 3 blind mice then? Not to mention the discrimination against the visually impaired, and the sheer violence fo cutting off their tails, the rhyme comes from some dark part of history anyway!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM

three visually-impaired rodents
three visually-impaired rodents
they all ran after the agricultural worker's chosen lifetime partner
who firmly but politely asked them not to invade her personal space
did ever you see such a thing in your life as those
three visually-impaired rodents

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: goatfell
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:06 PM

well that's the tories for you

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:44 PM

"Did you ever see such a thing in your life" is a rhetorical trick used to disguise a gratuitous criticism and mockery of the visually-impaired "rodents," as you call them. They are not "rodents"; they are proud "mice," the self-chosen name of their species. (Just ask Mickey Mouse and Mighty Mouse if they consider themselves "rodents.")

Any inadvertent trespass into the human's personal space is traceable solely to the visual impairment of the mice. Why aren't you demanding rehabilitation - if that's what the mice themselves desire - instead of casting stones?

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 04:32 PM

Lighter, I would be more concerned about the lack of counselling for the agrarian operative's life-partner. If indeed the visually-impaired creatures invaded her personal space, she should be allowed to defend herself by any means available, but such an action would undoubtedly cause this person severe emotional trauma, which should be dealt with as soon as possible.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Cool Beans
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 04:45 PM

Gurney, the NCKA (National Carving Knife Association)stands fully behind you and the agrarian operative's life partner. Remember, when carving knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have carving knives.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:59 PM

You've missed the point (of the knife?): I was referring to this (from Wikipedia and other sources):
Less than convincing attempts to read historical significance into the words[5] has led to the speculation that this musical round was written earlier and refers to Queen Mary I of England blinding and executing three Protestant bishops[6] (History tells us that Ridley, Latimer and Cranmer were burned at the stake, not blinded[7]). The earliest lyrics do not talk about directly killing the three blind mice and are dated after Queen Mary died, however, "she scrapte her tripe licke thou the knife" implies they were prepared and consumed if not a reference to tasting the blood of a slain adversary

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 06:08 PM

New verse to What Shall We Do With A Drunken Sailor I've heard from more than one artist now:

Put him in charge of an Exxon tanker... and get out of the way!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: meself
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 11:28 PM

Once when I raised the musical question of what shall we do with the drunken sailor, a wag was heard to call out, 'Get him off the stage!'

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: cptsnapper
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 08:56 AM

In my opinion whilst the intention that, whilst well meant, the sad thing about PC language is it's total lack of a sense of poetry or grace.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: radriano
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:39 AM

Hello - The Drunken Sailor provides a moral story for kids. The drunken sailor is punished!

If we continue to pummel our children with pablum are we really doing them a service?

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:55 PM

How many people are 'offended' by this stuff? Are there actual statistics? Are there really queues of Muslims objecting to 'Three Little Pigs'? Are there huge numbers of teetotaller parents objecting to their kids singing about 'Drunken Sailors" ? I think not. So what does it all amount to? A culture being run by a minority. Why do the very people who shouted loudly against apartheid in South Africa choose to support minority rule in UK? It's not going to be long before I'll need a CRB check before I can take my grand-daughter to buy an ice-cream!

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: meself
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 02:56 PM

Toning down bawdy or coarse songs for children is nothing new. In fact, it probably pre-dates 'political correctness' by centuries, if not millenia. How about if we all take a deep breath, step away from our computers, put the kettle on - a nice cup of tea will make everyone feel better.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:33 PM

If the story is indeed true then it's very sad and ludicrous. However, I think it's worth saying a little more about the 'Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep' story that the OP referred to. Now, I'm old enough to remember the 1980s when Ken Livingston's GLC was reported to have decreed that kids should have to sing 'Baa Baa Green Sheep' instead of the traditional words, for the usual 'PC' reasons. The only flaw in this terrible story was that it later turned out to have been fabricated by (I think) the Daily Mail. Which makes me wonder whether the 'Rainbow' version is equally apocryphal.

There are a few ludicrous examples of PC excesses out there, but an awful lot of the horror stories are very hard to pin down when they're subjected to close examination, as opposed to being harrumphed over in the pub. Many of the 'PC ban on Christmas' stories that seem to crop up every year are either apocryphal or highly exaggerated.

Bear in mind that some people (one of whom will shortly be appearing on the BBC in controversial circumstances) would regard an avoidance of the kind of racial / sexual slurs that most Mudcatters would find extremely offensive as 'PC gone mad'.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:29 AM

Birmingham is terrible for the changing of names (Christmas was banned one year in favour of Winterville) and song lyrics, regularly when they do the Birmingham Mosque is one of the most vocal against them! They're not offended by Christmas or Three Little Pigs or anything else but they're the ones that it reflects badly on.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:56 AM

What is to be done with the inebriated matelot ?

At some god-forsaken hour.

Depilate his abdomen with an oxidised depilator

Oh jesus - why do I bother ?

Decant him into a private and secure place until his mental equilibrium becomes stable . . .

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: GUEST, Jim Hancock
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM

The re-written version looks to be for 5 year olds and as such would seem to be pitched at just the right level.

I first learned Drunken Sailor when I was about 8. Not all of it made sense all those years ago, to a child born and brought up in the 21st. century it's probably meaningless.

The version I learned had already been cleaned up anyway, in our version it was his belly not his bo**ocks which were shaved and only in later years was the captain's daughter added to the mix.

It would appear that this is not a PC version but a complete re-write for a younger audience, that's fine by me.

Does it really matter what 5 year olds are singing so long as they are singing something? If they discover at 5 that singing is great fun we might have a chance of giving them proper folk songs later on.

All the best

Jim Hancock

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Brian Peters
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:06 AM

An interesting corrective to the 'Winterval' and other 'Ban on Christmas' stories can be read here.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 08:30 AM

Quite honestly, if someone doesn't like something said or sung - tough titty.

Subject: RE: P.C. version Drunken Sailor
From: meself
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 11:31 AM

Yes - and that works both ways, doesn't it?