Protest songs - destroying rural areas?

Subject: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:16 AM

I am trying to find protest songs about the destruction of rural areas.

They are building a Retirement Village between our village and the next one, on a hidious scale - bigger than the two villages put together. We are a very small, beautiful village within North Yorkshire and we are a Green Belt area. It contravines practically all planning guidlines, but unfortuanelty it looks like there are higher forces involved.

Within the new village they are going to be shops, a pub, post office, doctors, community halls, in excess of 250 parking spaces and 250 homes (plus much more that I cant remember).
I know Retirement solutions are required and I support the idea in principle but it is totally the wrong place for it, we are rural as it gets, it will destroy the rural community that we have, we already have a village pub in our village and one in the next. We all know too well how pubs are disappearing and folk clubs with them.
There is so many other reasons that it is wrong but I am not going to list them all, but you get the idea.

We are playing with idea of holding a fundraiser in the form of our Buskers nights that we hold in our pub. So I am looking for suitable material.
I have and am working on a version of Big Yellow Taxi (possible with new words more suitable to our cause).

If anyone else has any song ideas that would be suitable to the cause, it would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for long post but I though a little background may help suggestions..

Becks

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: bfdk
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:31 AM

Judy Small's Charlesworth Bay springs to mind.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Hamish
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:39 AM

Show of Hands' Country Life. Blistering!

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:03 AM

Chris Woods Cottagers Reply seems very appropriate.

Good luck with the fundraiser.

Pete.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Hamish
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:07 AM

And (of course! How dense am I?) Maggie Holland's A Place Called England. Seminal.

Subject: Lyr Add: BIG YELLOW TAXI (Joni Mitchell)
From: bobad
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:26 AM

Big Yellow Taxi
Joni Mitchell
©1966-69 Siquomb Publishing Co. BMI

    They paved paradise and put up a parking lot,
    With a pink hotel, a boutique,
    And a swinging hot spot.
    Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
    They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

    They took all the trees and put them in a tree museum.
    And they charged all the people
    A dollar and a half just to see 'em.
    Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
    They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

    Hey, farmer, farmer, put away that D.D.T., now!
    Give me spots on my apples
    But leave me the birds and the bees, please!
    Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
    They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

    Late last night I heard the screen door slam.
    And a big yellow taxi took away my old man.
    Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
    They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:28 AM

Sorry, I thought this was a thread claiming that protest songs were destroying rural areas and I was about to say that I agreed...

I'd also recommend 'Cottagers Reply'. First song on his Myspace page.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:39 AM

Great Song!

The idea being I would keep the essential lines of
"Don't it always seem to go, That you don't know what you've got till it's gone? They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

But change the other words a little to suit our area and issues.

When I was younger I used this song at my school when they decided to shut down our school orchestra, which was a crime as we were the best school orchestra in the country (we won all sort of awards at the Royal Alber Hall). Myself and a few friends put posters and stickers with Yellow Taxis all round the School Saying 'You don't know hwat you've got til its gone'.
We got in a little trouble for vandalising school property but it worked the orchestra kept going. Although we did pont out we did use 'removable' adhesive stickers so no damage was actually caused.
Lets hope it works this time on a slightly bigger scale!


Thanks everyone else aswell, I have been trawling the interent and itunes trying to get versions to listen too, all sound great.
Looks like I am going to be busy learning new songs!

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:42 AM

"Sorry, I thought this was a thread claiming that protest songs were destroying rural areas and I was about to say that I agreed... "

Lol, Yep, I thought that too when i saw it on the list.
Sorry Mr Cringe for confusion.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:38 AM

John Prine's Paradise

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:46 AM

From Remembrances by John Clare

By Langley bush I roam but the bush hath left its hill
On Cowper Green I stray - tis a desert strange and chill
And spreading Lea Close oak ere decay had penned its will
To the axe of the spoiler and self interest fell a prey
And cross berry way and old round oaks narrow lane
With its hollow trees like pulpits I shall never see again
Inclosure like a Buonaparte let not a thing remain
It levelled every bush and tree and levelled every hill
And hung the moles for traitors - though the brook is running still
It runs a naked brook cold and chill

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Morris-ey
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:49 AM

"They are building a Retirement Village between our village and the next one, on a hidious scale - bigger than the two villages put together. We are a very small, beautiful village within North Yorkshire and we are a Green Belt area. It contravines practically all planning guidlines, but unfortuanelty it looks like there are higher forces involved."

Who are "they"? How do you know it contravenes planning guidelines?

"I know Retirement solutions are required and I support the idea in principle but it is totally the wrong place for it, we are rural as it gets, it will destroy the rural community that we have, we already have a village pub in our village and one in the next. We all know too well how pubs are disappearing and folk clubs with them."

You support "retirement solutions" so long as they are not in your back yard? If your village and your neighbours' each already support a pub (and a folk club?) then the new development which you say is "bigger than the two villages put together" will not threaten your pubs. In fact they might benefit from extra trade.


"There is so many other reasons that it is wrong but I am not going to list them all, but you get the idea."

I get the idea that you think this will affect the price of your property.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s Band
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:05 AM

"Little Boxes" by Pete Seeger.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:20 AM

By Malvina Reynolds, I think

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 09:27 AM

Another one from Judy Small about old people:

MUCH TOO MUCH TROUBLE
(words Judy Small & Alison Lyssa / tune Judy Small)

Chorus:
And it's off, off out of my sight
Your grey hair's all wrinkled, you look such a fright
The bed's wet, you wander, you catch the wrong bus
You're much too much trouble to stay here with us

The rest of it is here

Subject: Lyr Add: GOD BLESS THE GRASS (Malvina Reynolds)
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:22 AM

Jean Ritchie's Black Waters, like "Paradise," is a powerful song about mountaintop removal in the US. (I know it's not exactly your topic, but it's worth a listen. "I own my own land, but the land's not my own....")

Even more than "Little Boxes," I think Malvina Reynolds's "God Bless the Grass" applies here:

God bless the grass that grows through the crack.
They roll the concrete over it to try and keep it back.
The concrete gets tired of what it has to do,
It breaks and it buckles and the grass grows through,
And God bless the grass.

God bless the truth that fights toward the sun,
They roll the lies over it and think that it is done.
It moves through the ground and reaches for the air,
And after a while it is growing everywhere,
And God bless the grass.

God bless the grass that grows through cement.
It's green and it's tender and it's easily bent.
But after a while it lifts up its head,
For the grass is living and the stone is dead,
And God bless the grass.

God bless the grass that's gentle and low,
Its roots they are deep and its will is to grow.
And God bless the truth, the friend of the poor,
And the wild grass growing at the poor man's door,
And God bless the grass.

Dan

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:31 AM

Leon Rosselsson went through a patch where TOO many of his songs seemed to start with the birds singing and the buds bursting into life , THEN they started pouring the ReadyMix ! Cant think of any titles though , as I was more into his Excellent Humourous songs .
And Richard Digence ? Englands Green and Pleasant Land ?

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:39 AM

The Albion Band did an entire album of songs good for this topic - it was called "The Wild Side of Town," performed with Chris Baines. Itw as released in 1987; I don't know if it ever came out on CD.

Dan

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:45 AM

How about John Tams' updating of 'The Manchester Rambler'? Sort of?

Lovely anyway.

Manchester rambler on Youtube

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: pavane
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:54 AM

Nic Jones did one on exactly that topic, "Changing green to grey", I think, which can be found on one of the recent collections, "In seach of Nic Jones" I think. I don't know who wrote it though.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:55 AM

"I'll sing you the gentlest protest song I know" is how Joan Baez introduced Just A Little Rain... came to me reading the thread. I'll go look in the Trad now...

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:56 AM

Que voici blicky...

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: soulkat9
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:08 AM

U2, Where The Streets Have No Name

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:12 AM

"There Goes the Mountain by Tom Paxton

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:15 AM

People can usually engage more readily in a cause (and perhaps offer more finely-tuned suggestions) if you give specific details; you may also avoid the suspicion of NIMBYism if folk can read about the issue for themselves instead of relying on just one person's presentation of it.

Presumably you are talking about the proposed development at Thornton-le-Moor? At present, press reports can be seen at

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/northyorks/4071881./

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/4077063.Temporary_setback_for_retirement_village_plan/

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/4089819.Retirement_village_plan_prompts_growing_opposition/

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:54 AM

Yes I am, Malcolm, how do you know that, lol!?
I was going to do that but I can't work out how to make a link...

cheers!

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:13 PM

"The Coming of the Roads," by Billy Edd Wheeler. Judy Collins is among those who've recorded it.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:36 PM

Becks, you go down the page to where it says "Make a link"

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LAST RESORT
From: pdq
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:41 PM

THE LAST RESORT

She came from Providence, the one in Rhode Island
Where the old world shadows hang heavy in the air.
She packed her hopes and dreams like a refugee,
Just as her father came across the sea.

She heard about a place people were smilin',
They spoke about the red man's way, how they loved the land.
And they came from everywhere to the Great Divide
Seeking a place to stand or a place to hide.

Down in the crowded bars out for a good time,
Can't wait to tell you all what it's like up there.
And they called it paradise, I don't know why.
Somebody laid the mountains low while the town got high.

Then the chilly winds blew down across the desert,
Through the canyons of the coast to the Malibu
Where the pretty people play hungry for power
To light their neon way and give them things to do.

Some rich man came and raped the land, nobody caught 'em,
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes and, Jesus, people bought 'em.
And they called it paradise, the place to be,
They watched the hazy sun sinking in the sea.

You can leave it all behind and sail to Lahaina
Just like the missionaries did so many years ago.
They even brought a neon sign 'Jesus is Coming',
Brought the white man's burden down, brought the white man's reign.

Who will provide the grand design, what is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier, we have got to make it here.
We satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny and in the name of God.

And you can see them there on Sunday morning
Stand up and sing about what it's like up there.
They called it paradise, I don't know why.
You call some place paradise - kiss it goodbye

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 12:42 PM

Ha Ha, I'm stupid! I was looking for something more complecated than that. Thank you Richard!!!

Just to prove that I can do it now, heres a link to our village e-book.
http://www.thornton-le-moor.co.uk/book/villagebookonline.html

The rest of the website is out of date because I am currently building a new one, but you can get a feel for the village and its history.

Thanks again

Becks

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 01:07 PM

They're Moving Father's Grave to Build a Sewer

Subject: Lyr Add: COMING OF THE ROADS + TIDE OF CHANGE
From: BB
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM

I'd second 'The Coming of the Road' by Billy Ed Wheeler. Recorded many years ago by Brenda Wootton. Perhaps not just what you want for this particular situation, but the effect on countryside is well made, I think.

"Now that our mountain is growing,
With people hungry for wealth,
How come it's you that's a-going
And I'm left alone by myself?
You used to hunt the cool caverns
Deep in the forest of green;
Then came the road and the taverns,
And you found a new love it seems.
Once I had you and the wildwood;
Now it's just dusty road,
And I can't help from blaming your going
On the coming of the road.

"Look how they've torn all to pieces,
Our ancient poplar and oak,
And the hillside is stained with the greases
That burned all the heavens with smoke.
You used to curse the bold crewmen
That stripped our earth of its ore,
Now you've changed and you've gone over to them,
Learned to love what you hated before.
Once I thanked God for my treasure;
Now, like rust, it corrodes,
And I can't help from blaming your going
On the coming of the road."

The other one is "Tide of Change" by Hilary Bix, which came out of a conversation in 1973 that she had with her then elderly neighbour, but still so relevant today, though the recession has put paid to some of it for a while, so maybe even that has its up side!

"My husband died and left me here with three fine sons to raise,
And as I cared for them, I thought, 'They'll be here in my old age,'
But there's no work for them round here, not even for farmers' sons;
They've had to leave to find a life, yes, each and every one.

    Old ways, young folk, swept up by the tide
    Of change that's come and torn the heart from out the countryside.

My cottage they will take from me - it's always been our home;
It was tied to the land for the labouring man - it was never ours to own;
Our life bound up in these four walls through sad and happy days;
Now they'll sell my home to city folk for country holidays.

Yes, the cottages have all been sold, and I'm the last to go,
But I'm damned if I will be torn out like any old hedgerow;
Now all around by night and day machines tear at the earth;
And I long for the sight of a working horse, or the sound of a farm boy's laugh.

My friend has moved into the town to be close to her son,
And the new folks leave in winter time - they don't seem to think it's fun;
The chapel's gone, Post Office closed, and I'm left high and dry
By the tide of change that's torn the heart from out the countryside."

Barbara

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

I grew up on a small ranch in central California. It was wide open spaces, wildflowers in the springtime, cattle and horses, wild game birds and animals - lonely at times, being six miles from town, but a great place for growing up and feeling close to the earth. The Sierra Nevada mountains seemed close enough to touch and were only four or five miles distant.

The author, Thomas Wolfe, said "You can't go home again." I learned this when I visited my old home place a couple of years ago. The open space was gone, subdivided and filled with homes. My old house was gone, razed to make room for a rather tasteless mini-mansion.

On a trip to my high Sierras, where I still spend a week with my friends every summer, new homes, logging roads and clear cutting of large tracts of old growth forest have decimated pristine wild areas I camped and hiked in years earlier. Widened roads full of RV's have been pushed farther back into areas where one had to hike in to visit. To enjoy some beautiful things demands sacrifice. In order to see some remote places, I have to be willing to walk in, carrying my supplies with me. I don't want to see a world where you can drive to everything.

There are songs in that, some I haven't begun yet, but will.
It gets personal. You feel violated. We are robbing our children and grandchildren of things that brought joy and peace of mind to us. Music is one way to connect those that lack that knowledge and experience with those of us who can remember. Write a song. It will make you feel better.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:24 PM

Man, I can't believe that no one has brought up the greatest song ever written on the subject and that is...

...John Prine's "Paradise"

Oh, daddy, won't ya' take me back to Mulenburg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
I'm sorry my son but you're too late in asking
Mr. Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

B~

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: pdq
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM

Perhaps someone will have better luck than I did while looking for the lyrics to "Before the Prairie Met the Plow". It is on a couple of CDs by its authors Billy Joe Foster and Keith Little, as well as a great version by Sharon, Cheryl and "Buck" White.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:08 AM

I don't think anyone has mentioned Draglines. It's in the DT. There's a recording by Delores Keane.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:21 AM

A song that I think is perfect, if you don't mind it being American, is John Gorka's "Houses in the Fields" -- the words to which I posted in this thread (anonymously, apparently, without meaning to). This is one of my very favourite songs.

And what luck, there's a YouTube of the "official" video that used to run on Country Music Television here.

(It's NOT really a "country" song, in case you are worried.)

Claire

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 02:53 AM

Pavane - Nic Jones wrote Green to Grey; copyright Mollie Music.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 03:36 AM

Yup! :0)

Subject: Lyr Add: FAREWELL TO THE FIELDS (John Conolly)
From: BB
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:17 AM

Oh, and of course, there's 'Farewell to the Fields' by John Conolly.

"I've watched you in the evenings, in the mellow autumn evenings,
When the early mist lay damp against your brow,
I've seen your stubble burning and I've watched your rig soil turning,
Heard the seagulls crying as they wheel behind the plough.

    What will they fashion to replace the fields of green?
    What will they build me where the hedges once have been?
    What will they play me to replace the small birds' song?
    What will they show me when the butterflies have gone?

I've seen you in the mornings, in the dewy springtime mornings,
Seen you stir again as winter's hand moves on,
I've seen the careful sowing, and I've watched the green spikes growing
Like a vast advancing army as they reach towards the sun.

I've walked with you in summer, in the drowsy, dreaming summer,
I've listened to your whispers on the breeze,
I've watched your colours warming and the rich grain slowly forming,
Seen the moon come sailing on your silky golden seas.

Now the green and gold are over, for the years are growing older;
That random sort of progress cuts you down;
The machines will soon be coming, their destruction dirges humming
As you're crushed between the fingers of the ever-grasping town."

Barbara

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,age concern
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:17 AM

After reading the three links posted by Malcolm Douglas it would appear that the villagers (protestors) are being extrememly selfish. The site seems ideal for old folk to live their last years in a country environment rather than in some hospital type building with no pleasant outlook. Shame on you nimbyists, you will be old yourselves one day.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Banjiman
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:20 AM

Guaet age concern.

Have you actually seen the site that is being proposed?

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:35 AM

Many of the villagers who are objecting are of retirement age and much older. Age isnt an issue if it was a housing estate for the general public there would still be the same objections.
The issue is the size of the development and its impact on the rural area. They are planning to build a village bigger than any village in out immediate area.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 06:01 AM

I love the countryside. I find being in large open spaces nourishing. I can't think of anything more beautiful and uplifting. I think one the greatest tragedies of the modern age is the fact that slowly green spaces are vanishing and my biggest gripe are the loss of hedgerows and even hedges in urban environments.

However - unless it really does contravene some legal issue and with all due respect to the OP - I think this really is dressed-up NIMBYism. The sentence "I support the idea in principle but it is totally the wrong place for it", is pretty damning as far as I am concerned.

Last year I read an article about another 'planning' issue that puts this particular thread in another context. My area - as important to me as the OP's area is to them - is having planning problems too. There's a lot of development in Manchester and its satellite areas these days. The Ancoats area is beginning to look like something out of a science-fiction film. My town outside of Manchester is going the same way with a lot of new accommodation appearing.

Some of it is in the form of conversions, where old mills are being given a new lease of life as they are converted into a massive shelving systems for little shoeboxs that get called 'apartments'. Other developments are completely new builds. Very often, buildings with hundreds of years of history are demolished to make way for these new developments and there's very little anyone can do about it unless it's 'listed'. The town I now live in and the town I grew-up in were once hubs in international industry and trade. Unless you read a book on the subject you'd never know as there's less evidence of it every year. Not only do we have no green spaces, but 'they' take away the only other thing we had to make up for it: our history.

Sadly, and to 'rub it in' further, often the 'regeneration' is actually 'gentrification'. These new builds have price tags beyond the reach of the previous population. 'Renewal' is often as much a case of removing the previous demographic as it is putting down new bricks and mortal. Those people now need somewhere else to go. It's not just the rural population that get displaced because of yuppies moving into their area.

The point of all this is that the article I read was about the actual design of these new housing developments and projections for housing developments in the future. I can't remember the actual figure but it was something like 15%-20% of people living in places that undergo some 'urban renewal' or 'regeneration' between the years 2000 and 2025 will be no longer be living in ground level accommodation. Everyone else will either being living on the ground floor of new builds or living in older accomodation. To me, that's shocking.

It's one thing to talk about building in the countryside, but it's another when some people in other areas can't even live on the ground! Whilst the loss of countryside is undeniably tragic (the loss of the flora and fauna is more tragic, to me, than the loss of 'picturesque scenery' though), what I'm describing in the rest of this post is both the reality and the alternative to people encroaching into 'green areas'. It's hard to wholly sympathise with developers building between two existing villages when people in urban areas are now having to live with people directly above them, below them, to the side of them &c and who can look out of their window and just see whole areas of people living in exactly the same way: in ugly grey boxes on top of each other.

The fact of the matter is that populations are increasing generally, and urban areas in particular are seeing a lot of immigration which exacerbates already existing problems. People need places to live and - again, whilst encroachment into the green is tragic - what's the alternative? Just keep stacking people up higher and higher like some kind of warehouse? A lot of urban areas are so short of greenfield and brownfield sites that this is the only way of creating new housing.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 06:37 AM

Should have thought of this before, but 'Ouses 'ouses 'ouses on The Imagined Village is pretty relevant. Not so much of a song as a reading, but none the worse for it.

Going off at even more of a tangent I'd recommend reading Edward Abbey's "The Monkey Wrench Gang".

Housing and development are thorny issues, and as I don't know the issues around the area concerned I'll not pass judgment. But one thing I'd like to know about this (UK) government's housing projections is how much of it is down to actual need for housing (i.e. as somewhere to live) and how much is down to making money?

Pete.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM

Oh, here we go. I did wonder if this would happen.

I was 19 when I bought a house in this beautiful part of North Yorkshire. Part of what I love about the area is about to be taken away from me and my fellow villagers, I think I have every right to be passionate about this issue as I would be if they were proposing to build in nearby villages. There is a place for these developments and this is not it.
Come and live in our village and community and then pass judgement of how wrong I am, ageist, and how I have a 'not my back yard' opinion.
There are much more suitable sites in the area that would not upset any rural community. You do not move into a town or a city and not expect development.

Yes it really does contravene planning, we have serveral people who live within the village who are planning officials and a enrivonmental/ecology expert. If you go to the local planning office you can read the file and look at the documents on a nearby display stand which states planning guidlines.

This I am sorry to say is a development driven by greed and money and serious issues are being overlooked and swept under the carpet.
Our villages are not going to just standby and watch it happen, as I am sure most wouldn't.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:36 AM

Becks wrote: "There is a place for these developments and this is not it".

How can this be not interpreted as a form of NIMBYism though? You've admitted you don't want this in your village or nearby villages. Whether you realise it or not, you are saying 'anywhere but not near me'.

Come and live in our village and community and then pass judgement of how wrong I am, ageist, and how I have a 'not my back yard' opinion".

I'm not sure you want more townies coming to your area buying up the houses that should be going to local young people! ;)

"I think I have every right to be passionate about this issue as I would be if they were proposing to build in nearby villages."

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be passionate about it, but again what's the alternative? Stack people higher and higher in urban developments or, if they are lucky enough to be on the ground, closer and closer together?

The fact is, we're living longer (even in areas with traditionally low mortality rates) and more and more people are coming to these shores.

Here's a serious question: how overdeveloped or concentrated do urban areas have to get before it's accepted that people are going to have to move into green areas, particularly your green area? I don't mean one or two (as apparently that's OK and that's your own experience) but large scale developments.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Becks
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 08:13 AM

"Whether you realise it or not, you are saying 'anywhere but not near me'."

There is several sites that are suitable for this development and they are near to me within 3 miles that I will encouter most days. These sites do not destroy Green Field areas. Some are even areas that have been deveoped and left abandoned and are no more than an eye sore. With the correct development the area could be restored and people would be thankful, and they would be again a pleasant place to live as well as much more practical for the proposed plan.


"I'm not sure you want more townies coming to your area buying up the houses that should be going to local young people! ;)"

I am myself a 'towny', but I respect the area in which I have moved and embraced village life. You cannot live in a town and not expect development, I agree that development can get out of hand and there is a balance. But people choose to live in rural areas because they are rural, I am not expecting there to be no development, but development that is sympathetic the area. We are talking about building a modern village bigger than the ones in our areas.
I am aware that we are living longer and more housing is required, but there are several care homes within our village market towns and new ones being built currently not in a hidious tower block type way.
I do not disagree with devlopments within villages as long as it is sympathetic with the existing village. There was a recent devopment out the back of my house - yes my back yard. I see it everyday. Several modern large houses, with gardens like stamps. Supposedly affordable housing but still waiting for someone to be able to afford one that doesnt own seriously flash cars and isnt a solicitor. I had no objections as it followed the line of the village and they were built to fit in.

What happens when this private retirement village cant sell there houses because they are too expensive? We will then have a housing estate that will slowly over time merge and our villages will be lost forever.

If you really are that interested in the issues of our little rural village the planning application in available to view, send me a private meassage and I will point you in the right direction.

Maybe if a debate wants to be started on the opinions of whether this develpment is right of wrong it should be done in the BS section?



So... thank you everyone for your song suggestions! All have been noted. Some great songs too, that I would never have come across.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Gedi
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 08:15 AM

Not to worry Becks, according to the developers ""Once it is in place people will forget it's there and it will become the norm," said Mrs Bell."

Somehow I think it will be difficult to miss a 60 acre sized development!

I grew up in Orrel near Wigan. There were roads with houses on them but green fields behind the houses. Over the past 30 years many of those green fields are now housing estates. I have lived in Manchester for the last 30 years and yes there are a lot of developments of apartments - people living on top of one another as Wrd says, but I sure as hell would rather see that than lose more and more of our wonderful countryside.

I know the countryside cannot be preserved in aspic, but I'm with Becks on this one - too big and in the wrong place. A development of this size will totally destroy the nature and 'feel' of a small village and I think this alone should be sufficient reason not to go ahead with it.

I do hope you won't accusing me of nimbyism!

Ged

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:03 PM

I live in southern California, where a "native" is someone who has been here longer than his neighbor. The mantra is, "I've got mine, now don't screw it up for me by moving in." Growth is, especially in places like this, inevitable. Sprawl is not. The trick is to manage to accommodate the increasing population without paving over all arable land and places of beauty and peacefulness. But, the "me" people win most of the time and pragmatism prevails over reason more often than not.

It has been said that N.I.M.B.Y. was invented hereabouts. The idea that a prison, school, factory, airport or park may be widely accepted as necessary - just so long as you don't put it HERE, is no joke. I don't subscribe to this credo. I can't stop the world, and I'm not ready to get off. I'm seeking balance. I just want to be able, one day, to take my grandson to a place that inspired me and share it with him. Hopefully, that place won't simply be a line in a song.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:21 PM

The thing is that the (so-called) planning authorities and the developers don't know where to stop - the process is open-ended and likely to carry on until we run out of space. And developments, like the one 'Becks' is talking about, just keep getting bigger and bigger. Just ask yourself, where will we be in 20, 50, 100 or 200 years time? Will everything be built on? And if we build on everything will we be able to feed ourselves? Until recently food was cheap and farmland was sold off for development. Now world food prices are increasing and 'home-grown' food seems like a good idea - you can't grow food on an 'exclusive development of luxury homes', can you?

But there are also deeper issues around quality of life and biodiversity. Nevertheless, all of these considerations must be swept aside to make way for the GREAT GOD PROFIT - musn't they?

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:52 PM

"The trick is to manage to accommodate the increasing population without paving over all arable land and places of beauty..." ~ GUEST

Not possible because each person wants as much money as possible for his/her property. It's human nature. The real estate developer can pay 2 million for a 60 acre farm. Farmers usually can't.

"...all of these considerations must be swept aside to make way for the GREAT GOD PROFIT - musn't they?"

"All considerations" is pretty broad. Shimrod is a raving Socialist so everything appears to him to be the product of his boogey men: capitalists.

The main problems are overpopulation and government corruption. In California, where GUEST is from, re-zoning farm land into housing developements usually involves getting a corrupt shill in the planning commission, often using "minority contractors" to make the developement proposals, eventually the actual construction is arranged and financed by organized crime money. It stinks, partly because our government has too much power, not because it has too little power.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 02:47 PM

"Shimrod is a raving Socialist ..."

Am I? Sez who?

"It stinks, partly because our government has too much power, not because it has too little power."

Sounds like you're a 'raving Libertarian', 'pdq'. And look where lack of regulation has got us!

Subject: Lyr Add: LEAVE THEM A FLOWER (Wally Whyton)
From: goatfell
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 05:15 PM

this is a song which I like singing

Leave Them A Flower
(Wally Whyton)
       Leave them a flower, some grass and a hedgerow
       A hill and a valley, a view to the sea
       These things are not yours to destroy as you want to
       A gift given once for eternity

I speak on behalf of the next generation
My sons and daughters, their children to come
What will you leave them for their recreation
An oil slick, a pylon, an industrial slum

You plunder and pillage, you tear and you tunnel
Trees lying toppled, roots finger the sky
Building a land for machines and computers
In the name of progress the farms have to die

Fish in the ocean polluted and poisoned
The sand on the beaches stinking and black
And you with your tankers, your banks and investments
Say, Never worry, the birds will come back

When the last flower has dropped its last petal
When the last concrete is finally laid
The moon will shine cold on a nightmarish landscape
Your gift to your children, this world that you made

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: johnross
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 11:07 PM

Cyriil Tawney's "If We Did to Their Daughters What They're Doing to Our Land." It's on the "It's Our World" LP on Argo issued as a benefit for the World Wildlife Fund, and on one of his later cassettes.

Here's a link to an earlier Mudcat thread that includes the lyrics.

Subject: Lyr Add: CONCREETO IS BYOO-TEE-FUL (Denis Keating)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 08:23 AM

One of the best protest songs of this gendre has to be one composed by Australia's Denis Keating, dedicated to the rural highlands in the Blue Mountains where he lived:

Denis Kevans ©

CONCREETO IS BYOO-TEE-FUL!!

Concreeto is byoo-tee-ful !!!!
We need more concreeto in the Blue Mountains,
Because there's a Big Flood coming,
One in a hundred thousand year flood !
Coming tomorrow morning at 6 minutes past seven,
Noah will be "hanging five" on this flood !
We've got to put thirty metres of concreeto on top of the Warra-da-Gamba Dam,
So bush walkers can walk straight up, and straight down,
Saves time walking around the crooked mountains,
Because concreeto is byoo-tee-ful, It's a byo-tee-ful colour grey-ey-ey, nice and smoooothe,

One in a hundred thousand year flood,
One is a very small number, not very attractive,
But 100,000 is fairly attractive, it's one tenth of a million,
And it's easy to make a million these days with the—concreeto—
Because concreeto is byoo-tee-ful, it's a beautiful colour, grey-ey-ey,
Nice and smoo-oothe… cheap to make, dear to sell, I love it---

The Mountains are very crooked, very rough job,
Full of cracks, very rough, rough rocks,
Got to fill it up with the concreeto,
Because concreeto is byoo-tee-ful, it's a beautiful colour…grey-ey-ey…
Nice and smoo-oo-ooth…fill up all the cracks with the concreeto,
Make a nice big wedding cake from Lapstone to Mount Victoria,
Nice and smooooth,

Got to straighten up all the cliffs, with the concrete-eeto,
So the bush walkers won't get eye strain
Looking at the crooked cliffs, make them nice and smoo-ooth,
Nice and square, nice and rectangular with the concree-eeto,
Nice straight cliffs and nice square waterfalls,
Because concreeto is byooteeful, it's a beautiful colour, grey-ey-ey,
Nice and smooooth…..

There's Warra da Gamba, Vasco da Gamba and Viola Da Gamba,
Now Vasco da Gama he circumcised the world,
In a Spanish Galleon! If he had a concrete ship,
He could conquer the whole world, I came, I saw, I con-creeted !!!
Viola Da Gamba, it's a concrete violin,
If you don't like the conductor hit him over the bloody head.

Now we've got five riders in the mountains, the Wollondilly, that's a silly,
The Kedumba, that's a dumb name, the Grose, that's a filthy pooey,
The Cox's that's a pornographic, and the Cowdung…
Got to fill em up with the concreeto, make them nice and straight,
Nice and square, nice and smooooth, so the water can run straight
Up and straight down, no more crooked rivers, so the bushwalkers
Can walk straight up and straight down,

Because concreeto is beautiful…it's a beautiful colour grey-ey-ey…nice and smooooth
Nice and square, nice and straight, with the concree-eeto,
So the bushwalkers can walk straight up and straight down,
Saves time walking round the crooked mountains,

The Wollondilly is Concreeto No 1, The Kedumba Concreeto No 2,
The Grose is Concreeto No 3, The Cox's is Concreeto No 4,
And the Cowdung is Concreeto No 5, nice and smooth, with the concreeto,
Because concreeto is beautiful…it's a beautiful colour, grey-ey-ey, nice and smooooth,

Some people come to the mountains for the O-ZONE
I come for the RE-ZONE..
Some people like the multiplication and division,
I like the multiplication and SUB-DIVISION…
With the concreeto, because concreeto is byooteeful,
It's a byooteeful colour, grey-ey-ey, nice and smooooth,

These bushwalkers say the bush is a "Cathedral Without Walls",
How stupeedo! You've got no walls, we've got the con-creeto !
Because concreeto is byoo-tee-ful, it's a byoo-tee-ful colour, grey-ey-ey,
Nice and smoooothhh....

It was a joy to listen to Denis as he purred out "...oncreeto is byoo-tee-ful, it's a byoo-tee-ful colour, grey-ey-ey, Nice and smoooothhh...."

And everyone joined in.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, who spent a memorable evening in Blackheath with Denis and John Dengate

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 12:11 PM

rip rip woodchip by John Willimson (Aussie)

Subject: Lyr Add: RIP RIP WOODCHIP (John Williamson)
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM

here's the words

RIP RIP WOODCHIP
Words and Music by John Williamson

What am I gonna do - what about the future?
Gotta draw the line without delay
Why shouldn't I get emotional - the bush is sacred
Ancient life will fade away
Over the hill they go, killing another mountain
Gotta fill the quota - can't go slow
Huge machinery wiping out the scenery
One big swipe like a shearer's blow

Rip rip woodchip - turn it into paper
Throw it in the bin, no news today
Nightmare, dreaming - can't you hear the screaming?
Chainsaw, eyesore - more decay

Remember the axemen knew their timber
Cared about the way they brought it down
Crosscut, blackbutt, tallowood and cedar
Build another bungalow - pioneer town

I am the bush and I am koala
We are one - go hand in hand
I am the bush like Banjo and Henry
It's in my blood - gonna make a stand

Rip rip woodchip - turn it into paper
Throw it in the bin, no news today
Nightmare, dreaming - can't you hear the screaming?
Chainsaw, eyesore - more decay

Rip rip woodchip - turn it into paper
Throw it in the bin - don't understand
Nightmare, dreaming - can't you hear the screaming?
Stirs my blood - gonna make a stand


© 1989 Emusic Pty Ltd

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 08:30 PM

Nobody's mentioned NIMBY by Brian Bedford yet.

No offence to Becks intended. Not every objection to development can be classed as nimbyism, and I know too little on this one to have a strong opinion.

However, I live in Germany where blocks of flats are fairly common. I don't think they're worse than much of Britain's terraced (and often not very well built) housing. I'd rather live in my flat in an 8-storey building, looking out on a hedgerow, than in a detached house in a densely built-up area.

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: sharyn
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 09:18 PM

Thee;s a lovely song on a Black Family recording that starts:

"They're going to build a motorway through me back garden
No one can explain how I came to be chosen..."

It's called "The Motorway Song" and it is by Leon Rosselson. I haven't checked the DT for it.

Good luck.

Sharyn

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 07:51 PM

"The World Turned Upside Down"?

Subject: RE: Protest songs - destroying rural areas?
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 07:59 PM

Sorry; I should've been more specific. I meant the Diggers' song, the Leon Rosselson version, here in the DT: World Turned Upside Down