 sj |
||
|
||
Is this copyright infringement?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: TheSnail Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:31 PM Jerry, I would urge you to get those tracks taken down. On his YouTube profile page, GoodFightLad uses one of your songs to support a political slogan "Stop the EU - Use your vote and spread the truth!". Not as contentious an issue as some of their policies and one you probably aren't very interested in but I doubt if you gave him permission to use your work in that way. As well as trying to appropriate traditional British music for their own ends, the BNP also use other people's CDs to add legitimacy to their own efforts by mixing them together in the sales from their publishing arm. Association with this bunch can only do you harm. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:01 PM ""if the artist wants I will take this down" It's that or some youtubers post the old "no copyright infringement intended"...ummmm ok! |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Barry Finn Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:32 PM Hi Jerry I can imagine your surprise & shock, actually "shock & awe" come to mind. He does put the tag line at the end of his info that "if the artist wants I will take this down". Nice of him but he could've asked in the first place, no respect there, it was easy enough for him to find a copy to buy it would been just as easy to contact you. I don't imagine that an airing like this will get you mcuh sales maybe some exposure, it would have been better if it were just short snips and then a review pehaps to Dirty Linen. Good luck with whatever you do, kneecapping these days is not to costly See ya soon Barry |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Will Fly Date: 12 Feb 09 - 01:15 PM I only found out myself by accident! I was downloading RealPlayer and only discovered I'd also download the "Downloader" bit when I next looked at a YouTube video - it clicked into life... :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GEST Date: 12 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM Thanks, Will Fly ~ I stand corrected. :-) GEST Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 12 Feb 09 - 07:03 AM A neat, small, free program that will record everything that comes through your computer speakers is found at: www.davee.com
Admittedly though - the quality of sound is poor (as ALL YouTube sound is) I can't imagine anyone who likes the music to NOT go out and BUY the CD quality recording of the music.
Sincerely,
|
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Will Fly Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:20 AM Hi Tim - I've used RPD mainly for grabbing stock of old bluesmen such as Gary Davis, Bill Broonzy, John Hurt, etc. Very useful. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Tim Leaning Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:15 AM I was just going to add that I am sure I have seen down load managers that claim to have the facility to download vids from U Tube. Never tried one but maybe is worth bearing in mind. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Will Fly Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:05 AM GEST: But from YouTube or an embedded YouTube video they cannot be pirated, stolen, or otherwise downloaded. Just a quick comment: If you have RealPlayer Downloader (free) software on your computer, whenever you watch a YouTube (or any other)video using, say, FireFox, RealPlayer Downloader kicks in and opens up a window asking whether you want to download it. So it is possible to download material from YouTube - which I do from time to time, but purely for self-interest. I do NOT redistribute them in any way. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Don Firth Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:26 PM Regarding stuff being put on YouTube, one could say "It's good exposure." True enough, but as Dave Van Ronk was heard to say, "People have been known to die of exposure!" Please, mother, I'd rather do it myself! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,Peace Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:19 PM Could not agree more, Howard. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Howard Jones Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM The issue is not whether exposure on You Tube or any other internet site is a good thing. It's about respect for other people's intellectual property. Just because you've bought a CD or legitimately downloaded a track does not give you the right, legal or moral, to publish it - that is the musician's choice. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:47 PM The civil approach always works best (at least the first time)
I am so happy that my dear friend MalcomT was able to act as mediary before you began to follow up on others suggestions in this thread to seek a solicitor/lawyer.
I must agree with GEST above, ...why think a presence on YouTube would hinder the artist's success or reduce sales?
This exposure can only help your sales...(why I beleive I might purchase a copy myself.)
Sincerely, It is interesting to view all four segments of the British video - and the photo "This is a British Bulldog - not a Brussle's Sprout" is quite clever. It never hurts to understand a different point of view.
-Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GEST Date: 11 Feb 09 - 03:12 PM I'm going to toss out something which does not answer the question of copyright infringement, but also does not quite agree with all that has been said previously. The mention of pirating, downloading, or outright stealing from or through YouTube is what generates this post. YouTube videos can be embedded onto another site, yes. But from YouTube or an embedded YouTube video they cannot be pirated, stolen, or otherwise downloaded. The embedded video always stays directly at YouTube, in YouTube's control and on YouTube's servers. The videos are an ideal way to spread a song rapidly around the world without risking loss of financial gain. The greatly reduced cost for international advertising must certainly be worth a few thousand views by those who have never heard of a songwriter, band, or singer. From what I have seen, many obscure or heretofore unknown artists would remain that way if it wasn't for "air-play" on YouTube. If an artist has a hit song (or songs), they will be a success with or without YouTube, but why think a presence on YouTube would hinder the artist's success or reduce sales? Neither YouTube nor I promote copyright infringement. I am merely trying to keep YouTube's role in proper perspective. GEST Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: JWB Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:05 PM Good on you, Malcom T, for soliciting and sharing the input from GoodFightLad. The civil approach is much appreciated. I prefer to work things out rather than thrash them out. I'll be contacting him to do just that, with an eye to fostering enjoyment of traditional music, supporting the rights of intellectual property owners and upholding free speech. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:04 PM Of course there is no need to involve lawyers; that would be an expensive over-reaction. A polite request to the culprit is often quite sufficient, with a follow-up request to YouTube if that doesn't work. Lawyers are supposed to be a last resort, though I realise that isn't such a common attitude in the USA. In this case 'Good Fight Lad' (presumably it was him) has responded politely and has said that he will remove the recordings when he is asked to, so there is no need to take matters any further so long as he keeps his word. We ought to give him the benefit of the doubt; many BNP supporters are decent but naïve people who genuinely aren't aware of the party's deeply unpleasant history or of the nature of the agenda they are being duped into by its leaders. It may also be that he didn't realise that buying a copy of a CD doesn't give you the right to re-publish it; now that he does, I hope that he will also take down the recordings belonging to the other performers I mentioned earlier without waiting to be asked by the individuals concerned, who are probably too busy trying to make a living to patrol social networking sites for pirated recordings, with or without links to causes they might find repellent. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:34 PM Jack, I vaguely remember hearing of an actual Canadian Nazi Party and they did get quite nasty I believe. To the point this thread, Youtube will pull video(s) if the musician or his/her representatives get in touch with them. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:29 AM oops that was me just now |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Tim Leaning Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:28 AM Drednaught Mutiny Excellent song and performance Thank you DC |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Tim Leaning Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:21 AM I've got no fellow feelings with the BNP and if my music was on that site I would be miffed. Despite my usual attitude that it is great that someone wanted to use my music,even if they didnt ask. I asked the guy where I could get the C.D. and he said to buy it online later adding that he got his legitimatly through Amazon. I happen to believe in listening to others point of view before forming an opinion. Most of our kinds problems come about from marginalising and ignoring the views of others we do not share similar life experiences with. Therefore maybe banning this or that,person or group from expressing their particular views would not be a good thing? When they came for me there was no one left? |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Jeri Date: 11 Feb 09 - 09:17 AM Jerry, I would think you could just try contacting YouTube first, before getting lawyers involved. I've seen enough videos pulled off YouTube to believe they might listen. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: DebC Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:51 AM Thanks, VT for giving the link to my slideshow. The song I used is not one I have written, but one in which I own the recording rights. I have asked and received permission from the writer (Chris Moore) to use my version of his song for commercial and promotional purposes. The photographs were taken by my late brother and he owned all rights associated with them. Since I am one of the heirs of his estate (he had no children or spouse), I have the right to use those photos in my slideshow. I am no lawyer, but I do think that it's important for any of us who create art to have some understanding of the legal implications of our creativity. As for Jerry's music being used without his permission, whether it be a front for a political cause or not, is inexcusable. Even if a political cause I supported wanted to use my music, I would hope they would ask first. BTW-Jerry Bryant is a wonderful songwriter in his own right and I sing one of his songs "The Dreadnought Mutiny". You can see my version on this YouTube video from last year's Chicago Maritime Festival. Debra |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,MalcomT Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:44 AM MESSAGE From GoodFightLad
Thankyou very much for sending me this link and message, having read the thread im very confused and rather shocked to be honest. I am only a BNP supporter not a fully paid up member, the BNP is not a far right neo nazi party as some of the postings have suggested, we are a British nationalist party working to preserve the culture, history, unique British identity and traditional music of Britain from extinction.
The CD in question is a favourite of mine, i love the songs and history connected to them, being British and proud of it, the CD brings a great connection with the past. My only intention was to share such a great bunch of songs with the world, i hope people would buy the CD if they heard a few of them on youtube, i never knew you could download youtube videos for free. My apologies to anyone offended by my actions, i only had good intentions and no sinister plot to recruite BNP members.
If the artist wishes me to take them down i will do so immidiately and to respect his wishes. Copyright never even entered into my mind as there is a lot of music about youtube, i wasnt thinking clearly and never wanted to rip anyone off. Ive had people ask me in the past where they can find some of the music ive posted and ive always told them to buy the CD online.
I really do hope no one is offended by this, the music is great and the reason for my youtube channel is to hopefully bring more people to traditional folk music, as far as ive seen it is in decline in this country as more people are swept up in rap music and the like.
All the best Good Fight Lad.
|
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,MalcomT Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:24 AM Why have you removed Gargoyle's postings?
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,MalcomT Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:20 AM Obviously it is difficult for some to discuss the BNP in this thread if it runs counter what the "moderator's" personal agenda is.
I have taken the liberty of inviting The Good Fight Lad over to take a look at the Mudcat and this thread.
Perhaps, he will give an accounting of himself. The good folks posting to HIS YouTube web presence have nothing but VERY positive comments to make about your songs Mr. Bryant.
I sincerely hope he will be received with open arms and a good firm Yankee handshake of welcome.
|
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: meself Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:28 AM Have had a listen to some of your songs - great stuff! |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Peace Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:47 PM If the songs are at all connected with the BNP, I can't really see that type of promo doing you any good. They are Nazi bastards and aren't worth the sweat off your goolies. IMO, ask Youtube to get them off, now. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:40 PM Sandy, the BNP are significantly nastier than any party that's ever been on offer in Canada. Douglas Social Credit had some fascist connections, but they were fluffy kittens compared to the British neo-Nazi right. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:05 PM Well in Canada we had a group of right wing arseholes who called themselves the Reform Party. They were doomed to remain a splinter group until they merged with the Progressive Conservatives. They dropped the Progressive label and today they rule , although with a minority, as a Conservative government. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Howard Jones Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:34 PM Gargoyle, the BNP are very careful nowadays to present their cause as reasonable patriotism. Some of their statements are, taken at face value, easy to agree with, and as you say may appeal to those who feel that their roots and national identity have been undermined and ignored - a view shared by many folkies, and not just on the political right. It's when you look beneath the PR and examine their actual policies and behaviour that a rather different picture emerges. My advice to the OP would be to get his music removed. If he wants it on You Tube, it's simple enough matter for him to put it there himself, under his own control. I've had a case myself when my band's album was put on the internet. The person doing it just wanted to share the music, and as the album is no longer available we weren't suffering any commercial loss. However it was a poor quality recording taken off a used vinyl record. When he was approached he immediately took it down. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Spleen Cringe Date: 10 Feb 09 - 06:32 PM It may be worth PMing Mudcatters who have put home recordings of their own stuff on Youtube - people like Will Fly and Captain Birdseye - for advice and information. The advice about disassociating yourself pronto from the BNP is good advice. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:53 PM If your record company owns all relevant copyrights they will need to give the DMCA notice, not you. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:29 PM Never heard of the BNP before. However, thanks to this thread I now have read their material. Many of the Mudcat contributors support similar views. http://www.bnp.org
The Good Lad has a point:
The rolly, jolly, nationalism within the songs collected on his page is exactly the sort of material to boost the pride of any downtrodden young adult who feels his identity being usurped by infidels. The music fits the need.
Nothing different here than the same hubris found within some Irish groups.
Sincerely, |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: DebC Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:28 PM Hey Jerry, Check yer email, mate! Deb |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:12 PM The practice of illegal 'sharing' of other people's property on YouTube by disguising sound recordings as videos (to which the posters do presumably have some small claim) seems to be on the increase. I've noticed tracks lifted from Copper Family records put up that way recently. That's the point, I think: rules that are designed for home videos are being used as a cover for smuggling in audio recordings that would otherwise not be allowed. Mostly this is being done by people who probably realise that they are 'getting round' what they think is an irksome regulation placing unnecessary restrictions on their personal freedom, and who don't understand that it's wrong. The BNP, however, have been making deliberate efforts to infiltrate the folk music scene; mostly as singer-songwriters, I think, but increasingly in the area of traditional song which, given the sometimes nationalist flavour of all folk musics, probably seems like a rather useful vehicle to them. Whenever we seem to be beginning to get somewhere in re-establishing the idea (with elements of the cultural establishment if not much of the general populace) that England does actually have a traditional culture and that not all folk music is either American or Irish, people who hitherto took no interest in it whatever suddenly discover its potential use to them as a bandwagon. It's already difficult enough to persuade some overly-careful people that the mere mention of the word 'English' is not in some fashion racist. If the BNP and their like are allowed to parasitize the movement, then the work is undermined. If people allow their work to be used in the advertising efforts of organisations of that sort (whether or not they stand to gain or lose financially) they risk not only damage to their own reputation (which is their choice) but also that of others and, indeed, the music itself. That isn't a decision that anyone has the right to make in a moral and ethical vacuum: I'm sure that I needn't repeat Edmund Burke in order to make that point. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Abdul The Bul Bul Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:49 PM Your own photos though JWB or you'll be infriging copyright. ;-) Al |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: VirginiaTam Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:44 PM What I mean to say, is montage of photos or video of activity in a harbour attached to the music. Remember to add details at beginning such as credits and contact info to purchase CD. Good luck |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: VirginiaTam Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:31 PM Debra Cowan posted above. She has lovely video of photography done by her brother (to whom the song is dedicated.) Her song about her brother. So brilliant. Just an idea. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: JWB Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:16 PM Your welcome advice is unequivocal, and I feel no hesitation about getting my stuff off the distasteful YouTube channel. On the broader issue of promoting music, without motion video, on a video website, does that make sense? If I were to videorecord myself performing each track I could see creating a channel to display it, but I'm not getting how just a sound recording and a photo of cover art qualifies as video. What am I missing? Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: BB Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:08 PM "Is it likely that an English lover of traditional music, who'd never heard of my recording before, would decide not to buy it because they first heard it in a YouTube post by a BNP member?" Yes. Barbara |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Will Fly Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:02 PM Yes Jerry - your musical output has been hijacked for the purpose of BNP propaganda, with "folk" as the hook to hang it on. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Rifleman (inactive) Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:59 PM As I said off the top, open your own Youtube Channel |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: greg stephens Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:50 PM Jerry: put your stuff on Youtube yourself, and get Youtube to take it down from the BNP site. Think guilt by association, or "no man can touch pitch and remain undefiled" or "a man is known by the company he keeps" or any saying like that. Belive me, the BNP does not have a savoury reputation in folky circles in Britain. It just might rub off on you. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: M.Ted Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:13 PM Richard Bridge makes the point, the law is close enough to the same in the US that the principles apply--and Jack Campin seconds. YouTube will remove things when requested to do so by the rightful owners. The issue here is not ambiguous in any way--the clips consist primarily of recordings and images that are the property of JWB and his musical associates -- |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: JWB Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:10 PM I appreciate your kind words on the recording -- many thanks for the feedback. To thicken the plot slightly, I'll let you know that the phonographic copyright, as well as the grand, synchronization and other rights, are owned by the recording company that released the CD. I haven't contacted them yet. They would be the ones to pursue legal redress, I reckon. I am looking out for publicity and filty lucre. The word "nasty" has been used a couple of times in this thread to describe the BNP, and that makes me very uneasy: I do not want to provide aid and comfort to racists and fascists. But I do want folks to buy the CD. Is it likely that an English lover of traditional music, who'd never heard of my recording before, would decide not to buy it because they first heard it in a YouTube post by a BNP member? This ethical issue crops up: these are ancient songs, in the public domain, and who am I to say a member of the BNP can't enjoy them and promote them? Of course, it is a bit creepy thinking of British skinheads listening to my voice as they contemplate hate crimes... The songs are certainly patriotic, albeit from another era, and I can see how the "make the Frenchie's decks run with purple gore" kind of sentiment would appeal to a 20-something contemporary British nationalist. Speak, oh ye sages of Mudcat! Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: greg stephens Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:09 PM JWB: leaving aside the copyright question, I really think you would be very well advised to get your stuff removed as quick as you can get Youtube to do it. Unless you want your name associated with British extreme right-wing politics, which your comments suggest you don't. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 10 Feb 09 - 03:04 PM Americans and others who may well be unfamiliar with the BNP (British National Party) should think in terms of your white supremacists and the Ku Klux Klan; that sort of thing, except that nowadays they keep the violence in the background and aspire to electoral success. They have won a few seats on Local Councils in the last year or two, trading on the build-up of racism in deprived communities. I wouldn't think of it as 'free publicity'; these aren't naïve fans who think they are doing you some sort of favour by pirating your recordings. They are using you and others in an attempt to legitimise their cause. Allow the material to stay in place and you risk seeming to endorse that cause. Even if you don't care about copyright theft as such, there's more than just that to consider in this particular case. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: meself Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:57 PM NB: Some cross-posting going on. I was responding to your question, 'What's your opinion on free publicity from "facists"?' As far as the copyright matter goes, it is clearly infringement of. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: meself Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:54 PM It's a bit of a tricky one, in my opinion - with the proviso that I am on your side of the pond, so might not get all the implications. I would check out this fellow's on-line presence to get a sense of whether you're likely to become identified with his politics by being associated with him. Assuming that you do not support his politics, you do not want your music used to support his politics. If you get the sense that your music is being used for that purpose, then you should get the vids pulled, IMO. If, on the other hand, there is no propagandizing evident on the youtube pages, there may be no harm in it. He certainly would not be the first fascist or bigot to have good taste in music (disclaimer: haven't heard your music yet!). It might be of value to read whatever comments have been added to the youtube sites, under the clips. |
|
Subject: RE: Is this copyright infringement? From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Feb 09 - 02:54 PM You don't need to start formal legal proceedings to get YouTube to take plagiarized material down. In this situation, it would be a good idea to contact all the performers whose work he's ripped off and suggest that they make the same request. I can't see any of them being less than sickened by this sort of abuse of their recordings. |
| Share Thread: |