Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt

Subject: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Old Roger
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:37 PM

Can anyone tell me what is the name of the tune The Hot Ashphalt is sung to. It seems to be very similar to the tune for another song, The Roving Journeyman. I suspect these two songs are just put to an older tune and that's what I want to find the name of. I am sure I have heard what this tune is years ago but can't bring it to mind.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:41 PM

Isn't it the Jolly Beggarman?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:56 PM

Bonaparte Crossing the Rocky Mountains

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:58 PM

If you are looking for the song, try spelling it "Hot Asphalt."
I think you can find a clip by the Dubliners on the net.

(Where did that pronunciation 'ashphalt' originate?)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM

"March", tune no.26, page 41, in the "Highland Airs and Quicksteps" section of Kerr's "Merry Melodies", volume 1, c.1880.

Much of Kerr's (that volume in particular) stayed in the Scottish danceband repertoire until the present day so whoever wrote the song will have heard it used for a dance.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: meself
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:01 PM

Same tune as "Mister McGuire" ...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: meself
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM

Believe "Hot Asphalt" was another Dominic Behan creation.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:05 PM

According to MacColl's 'Shuttle and Cage' booklet, it was collected from the singing of 'Baldy' Thmson, railwayman of Dundee, with the last two verses added by William Miller of Stirling. (Miller....?)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:34 PM

Here in Lancashire (UK) it's pronounced 'ash felt' for some very obscure reason!!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:40 PM

The song is a good deal older than Dominic Behan alright - I recall seeing it in songsters from late 19C. or very early 20C.

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:02 PM

Martin, are you saying "Hot Asphalt" goes back that far? - if so, you know something nobody else does. If you meant other songs used the same tune, what were they?

"Mr McGuire" is the only older-sounding one I've heard and I've no idea how old that is.

Jim McLean used it for his song about the tiger who didn't want to be shot by the Duke of Edinburgh, but that later got adapted (by Morris Blythman, I think) to use "Ghost Riders in the Sky".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:44 PM

Jack

Yes. My recollection is of seeing it in a songster in the Irish Traditional Music Archive, a few years ago. Like you, I was surprised at its apparent age - the songster appeared to be late 19C. or so, as far as I recall. I don't think I took a copy - but can check it next time I'm in Dublin.

Regards
p.s. I very much doubt I'm the only one who knows that!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:06 PM

Jack, I parodied Ghost Riders for my song Ghost Tigers (hence the title), nothing to do with Morris, and the melodies for Hot Ashphalt and the verse of Ghost Riders are very similar as is John Anderson my Jo John, and many more. The tune family is probably Gilderoy (Jolly Beggerman, Star of the County Down ...).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:07 PM

Wikipedia, BTW, ascribes Hot Asphalt to that well-known Irishman, Ewan McColl. ;>)

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:22 PM

Can someone check the sleeve notes to Frank Harte's There's Gangs of them Digging.. CD, please? I can't find my own copy!

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:36 PM

And the tune, to me, has always been "Napoleon Crossing the Alps"

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 05:46 PM

"Ash-felt" also common pronunciation in Scotland, though I suspect that way of saying it would have come over from Ireland along with many of the road gangs.

Ross

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 06:04 PM

Jim: I have seen your song printed in a folk newsletter from 1964 with the "Hot Asphalt"/Kerrs tune. The tunes aren't so similar that I'd confuse them, and the newsletter version didn't have the parody chorus. It's extraordinary that anyone would want to replace "Ghost Riders" if that's what you had in mind from the start, but it happened. Unfortunately I don't have any more information easily accessible.

I've never heard anyone sing "Ghost Tigers". It's a terrific piece of satire and ought to be aired again before the old bugger pops his clogs.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 06:28 PM

Down here in Dorset it's also pronounced ash-felt.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 06:48 PM

Isn't it also the tune to "The So'or Milk Cart?"

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: curmudgeon
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 08:57 PM

William Miller was Ewan MacColl's father - Tom

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: GUEST,Jim I
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 09:00 PM

Jack
I'll probably be in Bells Sunday 19th and if I can remember it I'll do Ghost Tigers for you

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: meself
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 11:30 PM

In Canada, it's "ash-vault".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:13 AM

Ha! As Joe Offer (I suspect) realised, we've been over this particular stretch of road before! Click here for an earlier Origins thread which covers the ground.

Regards

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 04:26 AM

Thanks for that Jack, I don't know who printed it or why they missed out the chorus which I thought heightened the satire. It was recorded by Nigel Denver on the Scottish Republican LP, Major Minor, sleeve notes by Hugh MacDiarmid, and if you, Jim I, sings it I'd be grateful to you as well.
Cheers,

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: bubblyrat
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 10:50 AM

It's "Napoleon Crossing The Alpsphalt ", no question.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 11:36 AM

I have it on an old 78 c1910 and there it's credited to the ubiquitous Harry Clifton, although I have most of Clifton's sheet music output and I don't remember seeing it referred to there. If it is Clifton, who also popularised Rocky Road to Dublin and put the tune to it, among many others he wrote now in the folk repertoire, it must be before 1872 which is when he died. I too have seen it attributed to MacColl, but I've seen all sorts attributed to MacColl, even that well-known Irish traditional song The Shawls of Erin'!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 11:43 AM

Surely it's 'Shores of Erin!'

Subject: RE: Tune Req: What tune is Hot Ashphalt
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 07:01 PM

Could even be 'Shows averrin'.