flat symbol in html?

Subject: flat symbol in html?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:06 PM

I just realized I can't simply paste a flat symbol into my blog. And using a "b" doesn't look anything like a flat in the font of my blog.

What to do?

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:17 PM

You've got no control over what fonts your readers will be using, so you're stuffed.

You could use a gif, but that would make the site inaccessible to the blind.

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:18 PM

I always use a small "b" where I have to - context is everything and I've not had a problem with this so far.

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:31 PM

I always use a small "b" where I have to - context is everything and I've not had a problem with this so far.

It just doesn't seem to look right here. But I guess it will do. It's not that important.

Thanks for the advice!

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:50 PM

Go for the italic, it's better, at least...

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: John Hardly
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:52 PM

Hey, that's a GREAT idea. Italic DOES work better. Thanks!

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 12:52 AM

I just write the word, like this: B-flat

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 01:06 AM

So, if I do italics, it's Bb ??

Isn't there an ampersand code for a better-looking flat? Well, now that I think of it, the b doesn't look bad...

-Joe-

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: open mike
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 01:26 AM

from wikipedia (musical flat)
In music, flat means "lower in pitch." More specifically, in music notation, flat means "lower in pitch by a semitone (half step)," and has an associated symbol (♭), which is a stylised lowercase "b" [1]. The Unicode character '♭' (U+266D) is the flat sign. Its HTML entity is ♭.




perhaps you can cut and paste it from there: (thusly) ♭♭

Subject: RE: ♭ in html?
From: open mike
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 01:27 AM

like this?
♭

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 01:31 AM

How about B^b or B^b?

Superscript is < and the other one with "sup" and "/sup" (no quotes). If you get my drift.

SRS

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 01:51 AM

You can "type" a flat symbol as:

&#X266D;

to have the html browser display the Unicode character

Hex 266D = ♭

but viewers will see it only if their browser has a font enabled that contains a glyph for the character.

Most current browsers should be able to swap in a glyph page that will display it, even if that char doesn't appear in the default font they normally use; but be prepared for complaints from viewers who use browser versions that haven't been "modernized."

If you're going to use the Hex 266D flat, you might as well match it with the Hex 266E natural and the Hex 266F sharp, just to be consistent(?)

&#X266D; = ♭

&#X266E; = ♮

&#X266F; = ♯

In recent versions of Microsoft Word, if you type 266D, and with your cursor immediately to the right of the D you key Alt-X it will be changed to the Unicode character glyph 쳌ó¹. (Alt-X will also toggle an unknown char to its Unicode "Hex number" which can be a help in figuring out broken chars.)

¹ But you'll probably see that just pasting the glyph to html doesn't mean it will show correctly.

John

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 02:02 AM

I knew there was an amperand code, but I got frustrated when I couldn't find it. Thanks for sating my frustration, John.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 02:42 AM

& indicates the beginning of a code

# means that the code is a number

X means that the number is in Hexadecimal format

266D is the hexadecimal number for the character

; indicates the end of the code.

&#X266D; prints the character      ♭

You can omit the X and use the decimal value for a character, for low numbers; but the html parsers lose track if the numbers get very big, and Hex is the standard for Unicode chars.

266D breaks down as:

      D = 13
      6*16 = 96
      6*16² = 1536
      2*16³ = 8192

So 266D Hex = 13+96+1536+8192 = 9837

Theoretically, some browsers might parse &#9837; as ♭ but it's less reliable. (Actually nearly all browsers will handle Hex or decimal codes about equally well, but it's "impure" to use decimal ones?).

John

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 02:57 AM

All I am getting with the HTML characters is a series of boxes, whether it is (U+266D), ♭, ♮ or ♯.

Better to use b and be sure that everyone can read it.



DC

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Marilyn
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 03:02 AM

I guess I'm one of the people on an old browser (not set up properly?) because all I can see for the character is a little box. The default font appears to be Times New Roman but the sign isn't appearing. Maybe there are lots of others with their computers set up like mine?!

I.E. version 6.0.2800.1106 SP1

At least using a small b whether italic or not will display - it might not be correct but at least I can tell what it's meant to be.

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 03:24 AM

Likewise - I am with Marilyn above - except there is not even a box - just the raw code.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 04:09 AM

In my browser setup, I'm seeing ÂÛ for those supposed flats.

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 06:04 AM

I say dispense with the sharp and flat symbols and support equal employment rights for all the letters of the alphabet.

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 06:39 AM

If you browser is set to receive/display "text only" you probably won't see the "correct" characters, since the parser in the browser converts everything to ANSI characters, generally including only characters with decimal values from around 030 to about 256.

Windows versions since Win89SE should be able to use "extended fonts" that may alias higher numbered characters into something legible, but you might need to download a "larger font set" than what came with the original OS.

Windows 2K was the first Microsoft OS that "intended to incorporate" full Unicode character set handling, but only the most confirmed and consistently pathological liar would claim that it "did it gracefully." With 2K, it was probably set up by users more often by accident than intentionally.

WinXP should have arrived with "sufficiently advanced" fonts installed that any html browser "should be able" to show these chars, but might not if you've selected an "old fashioned font" as your browser default. (The Times New Roman in WinXP is not the same as the Times New Roman originally in Win98SE, since the newer version includes about twice as many "glyphs.")

Vista usually installs two (at least) "full Unicode" fonts, and WinXP/Win2K and later can install them, but they are V.E.R.Y..L.A.R.G.E. and may bog down the whole computer if you're truly marginal on hardware resources. Even these "Full Unicode" fonts don't have everything in versions most people can get. Even in Vista, it takes "special methods" to get right-to-left and/or top-to-bottom display/printing for languages that need them, and most web pages don't have the style sheet features to allow them to be displayed correctly even if you should happen to get the "features" installed on your computer.

I don't know what the situation is with Macs, but suspect it's much the same as for Windows. You probably can get updated fonts that will give you more versatile display, but nobody is really "all the way Unicode" capable so far as I've heard.

If you really want to use "the real characters" and put them up so that you're sure that everybody can see them correctly, the only "almost stupid-proof" method available now is to put them up as .pdf documents/pages, with the fonts used in the document embedded in the .pdf files. This might be an option for a web site operator, but isn't much help for people posting to open sites like the 'cat.

John

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: treewind
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 07:20 AM

Just to add another data point to all that excellent and useful information, if you need to incorporate any other symbol into HTML (or anything else that understands unicode) there is a useful set of charts of all the Unicode glyphs and their 4-digit hex code values at unicode.org - My default home page has a link to www.unicode.org/charts/ from which you can navigate quickly to the right one of many PDF charts of characters.

Anahata

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 08:27 AM

I say dispense with the sharp and flat symbols and support equal employment rights for all the letters of the alphabet.

:^)

Subject: RE: flat symbol in html?
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 25 Apr 09 - 10:24 AM

Looks like JohninKansas has been working flat out.

I'll get my coat................