Music : Britain's Got Talent

Subject: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 07:42 AM

I've had a flu bug for the weekend so spent all of the time in front of the the telly, Which I hasten to add is something I don't usually do. I found repeated on many channels the program Britain's Got Talent. click the blickies for entertainment, Yeah!!!!!!!

Ok a guy who shouts ... a little girl in ballet shoes with a fantastic voice, a man who's nearly
nearly stabbed in the head,(very staged and obviously done for the audience and Amanda!) another guy who falls off a shopping trolley and a middle aged mum who wants to sing to the queen but can't sing for toffee (it has to be staged, cos I don't believe a word of it) ...and we all know about Susan Boyle (and good luck to her) all makes 'good' tv and keeps the punters tuning in.

Yet again we are being taken for fools being asked to believe all we are shown on this Prime Time tv prog.

What I want to know is, where are we folkies? We have wonderful singing voices, and we can do far better performances than the stuff they choose to show, but we're not there. Is it that we all know better than to flaunt ourselves on such a program, or is it that folk still isn't sexy on tv?

sal

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: melodeonboy
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:27 AM

There's been a huge market for freak shows, musical cliche, people making prats of themselves and "Butlin's" type entertainment for a long, long time, and it doesn't really look as if change is in the air!

Perhaps it requires less effort, input and patience than listening to your average folk song.

As Jim Royle would say: "Talent, my arse!"

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:33 AM

..............& then there's some've the nature progs, such as Ray Mears showing people how to make fire every week!!

The man even chops down a whole tree to make a spoon!!

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:43 AM

the lemonade lady

What I want to know is, where are we folkies?

We're in folk clubs and sessions and festivals and village halls and each other's living rooms and busking on the street making and listening to real live music, not sitting on the sofa in front of the magic box saying "Entertain me!".

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: breezy
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 09:49 AM

Tuesday 12th May
I'm at Cellarfolk

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Fran
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:29 AM

I can't imagine folkies queing for hours on end in Birmingham, Cardiff, Glasgow and wherever else the auditions are just to be put through to a panel who would then decide if they were to go through to the judges or not.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:41 AM

Oi Snail... as I said, I have had flu and spent the wkend watching tv which isn't something I normally do! I wanted to be entertained cos I felt like sh*t, thanks!

And dya know what? I've been thinking about it quite a lot today and I'd jolly well like to have a go. I'm not at all bothered about becoming 'famous' but I want to prove a point; that I would love to sing in front of a large audience and that there ain't nuffink wrong with an unaccompanied traditional folk song. I really don't mind if they tear me apart. It would be really good fun.

LOL!

Sal

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: GUEST,DaveP
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 11:59 AM

The thing that many people don't realise about these shows is that performers are filtered about 3 times before they get in front of the judges on TV. If you are really good (within the confines of what passes for good i.e. generally you have to look and sound like every other artist on the judges books and be able to belt out an overblown and over produced pop ballad) you get through, but importantly , if you are really bad you can also get through because more than anything else it's an entertainment show. Having someone who is awful but thinks they are ok because they've got that far is GOOD TELEVISION (aka a freak show as referred to above by Melodeonboy). The producers knew what they were doing with Susan Boyle but she's the exception and normally the end result is a further homogenisation of popular music.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

Haven't you got a CD player, Sal? Good luck getting on the programme but I don't think I'll be watching.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:01 PM

Hey Sal, I hope you didn't get that flu bug from Mexico.

Can you get it through the Internet?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:21 PM

What the hell, Sal! Give it a shot. You might wind up rich and famous, or at the very least, you'll learn a lot about how television is put together.

Get well. Practice up. Then storm the barricades!!

And keep in touch.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:37 PM

Take yer lemons with you Sal, and you can throw them at the panel if they don't like you

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:44 PM

The producers knew what they were doing with Susan Boyle but she's the exception and normally the end result is a further homogenisation of popular music.

How much more homogeneous can it get than a karaoke performance of a song from the longest-running musical in history?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 01:58 PM

U go fur it girl!
Follow your dream,They say you cant do it but if you have belief in yerself and put your trust in god and the American way then you tooo can .....oh Bugger bored with that now but if you did do it I would watch...

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 02:00 PM

I've been thinking about this and have come to the conclusion that the audience for these kind of programmes consists mainly of people who would feel very uncomfortable straying outside of the confines of what is accepted as mainstream music these days and/or who actually get satisfaction out of watching someone being thrown to the lions. The second reason there would also explain the popularity of a lot of shows such as Big Brother and How Clean is Your House and the like.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 05:11 PM

I just typed a whole lot of blurb, and when i wanted to make a blicky it wiped the whole lot!

Hey you can be a judge for a min...

Sal LOL!!!

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Alan Day
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 05:58 PM

Go for it Sal, but please before you go, record yourself and make sure you have talent.
I will watch and cheer if you make it.
Please keep us posted.
Al

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Apr 09 - 06:16 PM

Alan Day, check the link that Ms. Sal just put in.

Lemonade Sal, you don't bray very loudly, you're not five years old, and you don't look peculiar, so I don't know that you'd ever get past the first screening on the mere fact that you sing absolutely beautifully. Maybe if you show up wearing as little as possible : ).
Somewhat more seriously, if you feel like trying for fun, try. If they don't even notice you, that will say a lot more about them than about your singing.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: nutty
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 06:53 AM

God help us if Simon Cowell ever decided he could make real money out of folk.

He'd have our best performers so tied to a contract we'd have to pay a fortune to see them.

That may appeal to some folkies but not me.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 07:53 AM

Oh, come on - are any of us folkies that daft that we'd tie ourselves to a toe rag like Mr Cowell ?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:50 PM

I think he's great! If I was on the panal I'd be just like him. I'd love to meet him. I have no fear!

Frogprince you flatter!

lol

Sal

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 01:53 PM

We're in folk clubs and sessions and festivals and village halls and each other's living rooms and busking on the street making and listening to real live music, not sitting on the sofa in front of the magic box saying "Entertain me!".

It's this snotty nosed attitude that puts alot people off "folk" music

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 02:06 PM

Rifleman

It's this snotty nosed attitude that puts alot people off "folk" music

What? The suggestion that people might actually enjoy going out and listening to and taking part in live folk music?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 02:17 PM

I've said elsewhere, there is NOT going to be a mass conversion to "folk" music, (despite the wishful thinking of some) and that what a person chooses to do musically, or otherwise is exactly that, it's a choice. The way you come across is that someone who CHOOSES to sit at home in front of the television is somehow a lesser person than someone who hangs around folk clubs.
I don't consider myself a "folk" musician. Traditional songs are but one part of my repertoire, both in bands and as a solo artist.

That's what I mean.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Apr 09 - 02:25 PM

Sal asked "What I want to know is, where are we folkies?"

I gave my answer.

Excuse me. Must dash. Off to the Lewes Favourites.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Alan Day
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 08:57 AM

Sorry I have been so long to listen to your singing Sally.
You have a truly lovely voice "Bold Grenadier " I like very much.
Choose the right song and you will get there.
3 votes from me
Al

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 09:17 AM

Just go for it Lemonade Sal! Plus I'm sure you're not going to burst into tears and beg to be given 'just another chance' like some of the poor desperate wannabe's out there.. Trad folk song is 'about' regular people, and it's ordinary people that programmes like this appeal to.
I believe you'll go down very well. Something 'real' with honest integrity (can't say I'm sold on the whole S. Boyle melodrama myself I'm afraid) and 'British' to boot is more than applicable on a programme like this - in fact it might even be a bit of a surprise to the audience!
I wish you well, and hope to hear more...

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Mitch2
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 10:28 AM

I love this show and never miss it. It's car crash TV at its best.

Yes, it does lead to the further homogenisation of popular music, but let's face it, we lost that battle a long, long time ago.

Would I like Simon Cowell to manage my folk singing career or stage a folk TV show? Too ****ing right I would. The folk world needs someone like him to kick it up the arse and bring it onto the same planet as other musicians- you know, people who play for the benefit of others.

You know what? On another thread on this board someone wrote that "It's not the job of folk clubs to give employment to musicians." And I once overheard someone in a folk club say (when criticising the club) "This isn't a folk club it's an entertainment venue."

Yeah, right. And it's not the job of theatres to employ actors. Let's be precious about our great dramatic heritage and just keep it to a select few, shall we. Likewise, we'll carry on with the crap singarounds until we all die out- we don't want to share it with the uneducated public, do we?

I was up in Scotland for a week recently. Folk programmes on mainstream TV and folk music on national radio. Dear me, how upsetting- the commercialisation of traditional music. Let's hope it never happens here, eh?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Banjiman
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 10:40 AM

What's "Britain's Got Talent" ?

Who's Simon Cowell?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 04:28 PM

Lol! you are all wonderful, I love you all (takes a bow) ha ha ha! Just practicing! Tee hee

Actually what can I say? Thanks.

I just think it would be really good fun to do it. I'm not after a career and i'm not young and sexy like wot them there kids are, but I'd love to be able to tell my grandchildren (when my girls are ready, and not before!) that this is what their crazy 53yr old Grand Ma did! Whoops sorry should I have told you all that? Oh yeah what the heck!

Now all I have to do is find out when and where the auditions are being held.

Oh and someone has found me in myspace and wants to play me on their radio prog in june. Exciting eh?

Sal

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: melodeonboy
Date: 29 Apr 09 - 08:10 PM

"I was up in Scotland for a week recently. Folk programmes on mainstream TV and folk music on national radio. Dear me, how upsetting- the commercialisation of traditional music. Let's hope it never happens here, eh?"

More common sense and less grinding of axes, please!

There've been endless comments on Mudcat expressing a desire for more folk music on both radio and television. Also, read my comments on the "tv and traditional music" thread. Most people in the folk world would love the music to have more exposure.

I also don't quite understand the idea that the broadcasting of folk music automatically means that it's being commercialised. Surely that depends on the type of music that's being broadcast.

If you'd like to come to the Good Intent singarounds at Rochester Sweeps festival this weekend, you'll find singarounds that are neither "crap" nor limited to the "select few".

NB: Inverted snobbery is tiresome.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 09 - 07:06 PM

Lemonade Sal, Emma B put this on another thread; sounds like you might want to read the contract carefully and think about it before getting involved:
"I can't find the details of the contracts for the Britains Got Talent contestants but the contract for those taking part in Cowell's other show, British television's music talent show contested by aspiring pop singers drawn from public auditions The X Factor, has been leaked much to Cowell's embaressment.

As part of the deal, the acts have to agree NEVER to criticise the music boss!

In fact the contract, which runs for 80 pages, also reportedly states that the rules are enforceable anywhere "in the world and solar system" and that artists may not be critical of the company, "including its personnel and, in particular, Simon Cowell".
Breaking this clause imposes quite staggering financial penalties

One finalist is quoted as saying.
"After being kicked off, you're under contract to Cowell's label even if they've no interest in you. Other record labels won't touch you until the deal is over, and then interest may have waned,"

Despite 'heartwarming' articles planted in the press by the programmes publicists that that the winner will receive a £1 million recording contract, this is not guaranteed and the legal document shows that the victor MAY only receive £1 million after at least four albums.

Instead, they will get an advance of £150,000 to pay their expenses for their first CD

In return the winning act makes 15% from single and album sales, along with 7.5% of profits from a tour and 15% of merchandise sales."

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 04 May 09 - 05:54 PM

But I don't want fame and fortune, I just want to sing in front of a big audience! I don't care about all of the crap in a contract, that isn't why i want to do it. If I signed a contract like that it wouldn't make any difference, i wouldn't be famous in this life time anyway!

I watched on the news this morning that the general English public actually find folk music and Morris dancing, embarrassing!

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 05 May 09 - 06:10 PM

I got cross with the audience at The Open Mic at the Courtyard in Hereford tonight...Whoops! Is there any point singing to the backs of talking heads?

LOL it was good practice for being told by Simon Cowel that I stink!

Will be the last time I go there, me thinks!

Sal

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Alan Day
Date: 05 May 09 - 06:18 PM

Stick with it Sal
Al

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 05 May 09 - 10:17 PM

£150,000 for CD expenses? Blimey!!What sort of CD is it? Encrusted with spare bits from the Crown Jewels and designed by Damien Hirst?

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 05 May 09 - 10:52 PM

I'd like to hear more traditional music on mainstream radio. All that
I can get is indie groups on one of the C.B.C. stations, and that's
just local artists from various genres. Our mainstream radio mostly
plays rap and night-club/pop songs, and sometimes the same half dozen
songs are repeated once an hour. I think traditional folk music would
be good for mainstream radio, because it puts some variety into their
play-lists.

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:11 AM

My only advice Sal is not to touch BGT with the proverbial bargepole.

Most critics of this 'unreality show' agree that the only 'winner' is Simon Cowell with annual earnings of £22.5 million.

Recognizing that Susan Boyle, despite the manufactured hype may well be defeated by other contestents, members of her family, hoping that she could benefit by her current and possibly ephemeral success, are angry that Cowell controls almost everything that the contestents in his show are allowed to do and will not allow her to record anything (including a single) under the conditions of the draconian contract all contestents are required to sign.

Her brother John has told the local TV
"Just let her sing..... the hype and celebrity don't mean anything to Susan - she just wants to sing. It is all she has ever wanted to do.....but she isn't being allowed to."
.

£150,000 for producing a CD?
- well bear in mind the the orchestral and choral arrangements are decribed as 'sumptuous', a large professional recording studio is expensive and will charge by the hour - some recordings often take a long time to complete, and there was extremely heavy 'marketing'; distribution costs have also to be considered.

This video may demonstrate something of the scale involved in the actual recording alone

No crown jewels I suspect but, nevertheless, there appears to be concensus that the actual production quality was poor

Subject: RE: Music : Britain's Got Talent
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 07 May 09 - 10:37 AM

Well all of those guys scraping away don't do it for nothing!