English Fair Fund is BNP Front

Subject: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:33 AM

I received a piece of campaign literature from The Britsh National Party yesterday. Amid the usual carefully concealed racist/chauvinistic gobbledeygook, it contains an item of information which anyone playing English folk music or performing English folk dances should be wary of.

IE., the BNP have set up something called The English Fair Fund. This is to "give grants to help local community groups celebrate St. Georges Day". No mention of the other Patron Saints' days of these isles.

If you get a call from anyone asking you to perform at a St. Georges day event, or anything similar, it would be as well to find out who's funding it.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:42 AM

Thanks Fred.
The BNP have become increasingly active in this area recently with the intention of targeting voters in the forthcoming elections I'll pass this on to folk friends who don't visit this site.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:47 AM

yes ,thanks.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:49 AM

Likewise

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:51 AM

If this is the BNP
it's interesting reading .

sal

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 08:16 AM

Let no one be in any doubt exactly what the BNP stand for whatever their public face states.

Nick Griffin, the party chairman, has been trying to defend policies put forward in the BNP's Language And Concepts Discipline Manual, which were leaked to an anti-fascist group and then to the BBC.
He claimed that all Britons of 'ethnic backgrounds' should be called "racial foreigners".

He said the BNP's ultimate aim was the "lawful, humane and voluntary repatriation of the resident foreigners of the UK".

He told Radio Four: "Although in civic terms they are British, British also has a meaning as an ethnic description.

These people are 'black residents' of the UK … and are no more British than an Englishman living in Hong Kong is Chinese.

"We don't subscribe to the politically correct fiction that just because they happen to be born in Britain, a Pakistani is a Briton. They're not. They remain of Pakistani stock."

The Archbishop of York, Ugandan-born Dr John Sentamu, who supported the St George's Day celebrations, said the comments were "beyond belief"

Meanwhile, British National Party skinheads are being urged to cover up their shaven scalps as the far-right group seeks to present a new, more respectable image, according to a leaked internal "war book".

The manual for activists also includes ideas for reviving St George's Day traditions to combat the "growing power of Islam".

It warns members not to "express extreme views or advocate violence of any description. Your e-mails are probably less secure than you think".


According to some reports 'Polling experts believe the antiimmigration party led by Nick Griffin has a chance of picking up its first seats in the European parliament in June by capitalising on recession-fuelled rows over "British jobs for British workers".'

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 14 May 09 - 08:55 AM

Watch out for the Steadfast Trust, too. They are a registered charity (a fact which is probably causing the Charity Commissioners to kick themselves) with the stated aim of helping ethnic Anglo-Saxons. Ahem, quite.

One of their ambitions is to hold a national festival of English traditional music - laudable in itself, but not if it's going to be used for extremely nasty political ends. Last year they also tried to make it look as if they were responsible for various St George's Day events by the way they listed things that other people had organised on their website.

We've had a brief brush with them in Sussex. They'd probably like to get a reputation as organisers.

Everyone's free to their own opinions, of course, but I'd recommend treating this bunch with extreme caution.

Valmai

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:00 AM

Emma, thank you. What a succinct and clear summary your post was..... incredibly helpful. I have some folks to orient as to the situation there, and I'll print your post for the occasion if that's OK..... in anti-racism work I'm involved with in the US.

~Susan

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:00 AM

http://www.steadfasttrust.org.uk/

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:19 AM

Emma B "According to some reports 'Polling experts believe the antiimmigration party led by Nick Griffin has a chance of picking up its first seats in the European parliament in June by capitalising on recession-fuelled rows over "British jobs for British workers".'

Because the European elections have a very poor turnout, and because the count is based on proportional representation, the BNP don't have to get all that many votes to win seats. For god's sake tell absolutely everybody to turn out and use their vote. Whatever you choose to vote, it will diminish the chances of the BNP.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:36 AM

Nick Griffin, who ousted Tyndall (a lifelong Nazi activist who once declared "Mein Kampf Hitler' is my bible") as BNP leader in 1999, was convicted of incitement to racial hatred in 1998 for publishing The Rune, an antisemitic magazine.

During his trial Griffin stuck by his claims that the Nazi Holocaust had not taken place. "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades," he said in court.

"I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria."


'Mark Collett (born 3 October 1980) is a former chairman of the Young BNP, the youth division of the British National Party (BNP), and is Director of Publicity for the Party'

Quotes from Mark Collett -

On Jews:
"There's not a European country the Jews haven't been thrown out of. When it happens that many times, it's not just persecution. There's no smoke without fire."

On Aids:
"A friendly disease because blacks, drug users and gays have it."

On whether British-born blacks are British:
"Just because a dog is brought up in a stable doesn't make him a horse."

On Adolf Hitler:
"Hitler will live forever; and maybe I will."

On Winston Churchill:
"Churchill was a f*****g c**t who led us into a pointless war with other whites [i.e.The Nazis] standing up for their race".

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:45 AM

Aoart from the BNP, the only other sponsors of St georges day folk events I knew was Watney's ( St georges taverns). Sad to say london Morris teams sometimes sold their soull for a pint of Red Barrell ( had to get the rust off the bells with something!!) in the 70's. The whols idea of the day is politically laden, never was a folk day, may 1st or Whitsun, yes.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:45 AM

A correction to my earlier post - the Steadfast Trust exists to help 'the ethnic English'. Hen dentistry springs to mind.

Valmai

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: goatfell
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:49 AM

no one in britian is pure blood we all have come from somewhere else

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 14 May 09 - 09:50 AM

Thank you for this, Emma B.

I duly went to the site (know your enemy . . . ), and I think I shall have to stop wearing my Croes Celtaidd (Celtic cross) until after the elections.

I wear it for culture : I am not a christian. However : for such a potent symbol, christian or otherwise, to be associated with BNP has disgusted me.

It is, I think, worth reminding ourselves that Hitler came to power during a recession . . .

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:01 AM

Simon Darby (the Deputy Chairman and National Press Officer of the BNP), who works at the Greater London Authority** attended a conference of 'European nationalists' in Milan last month.

He appeared alongside French National Front MEP Bruno Gollnisch and Italian far-Right MEP Roberto Fiore to discuss policies ahead of June's European Parliament elections.

Mr Gollnisch was convicted in 2007 of Holocaust denial after he questioned the existence of the gas chambers.

Mr Fiore, leader of the Forza Nuova party, was hunted by police after the Bologna station massacre in which 85 people died in 1980. Far-Right terrorists were blamed for the attack.
He was later cleared of involvement but convicted of "subversive association" and sentenced to nine years in prison.

Nazi salute for far right leaders in Milan


** Mr Darby became a salaried employee at City Hall after the breakthrough victory by Richard Barnbrook, the first BNP representative on the London Assembly last year. He is employed, at taxpayer's expense, as a personal assistant to Mr Barnbrook, who was also the party's mayoral candidate.

A report The Times last November said that he admitted that he regularly used his City Hall office to work in his capacity as the BNP's media spokesman, a job that is unrelated to his publicly funded position.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:21 AM

Bryn Pugh

I think I shall have to stop wearing my Croes Celtaidd (Celtic cross) until after the elections.

Don't do that, Bryn. That's handing it over to the Nasties. Wear it with pride and give anybody a mouthful if they accuse you of being in the BNP. It would be like not singing John Barleycorn just because Nick Griffin sings it at the end of BNP meetings.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:31 AM

The Snail. "It would be like not singing John Barleycorn just because Nick Griffin sings it at the end of BNP meetings."

Does he? Which JB is it, the one about growing and harvesting the stuff and turning it into beer, or the other one; "John Barleycorn is a hero bold;As any in the land. His fame has stood for ages good,
And forever shall stand. The whole wide world respects him, No matter friend or foe,And where they be that makes him Too free he's sure to lay them low." ?

I belong to an an agitprop choir and we use the former, actually the version which Edith Fowke collected from OJ Abbott of Quebec. I'm certainly not going to stop singing it because of that Nazi fruitcake. I'm not going to stop drinking English beer either.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:38 AM

Not actually having been to a BNP meeting, I couldn't say but the principle remains the same, don't let the bastards take over the things we value whether it be Celtic Crosses, our songs or our beer.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front; PC and WHite G
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:41 AM

One of the worst effects of racism and classism is how guilt over them stop good things in the world while people are hit by that sense of guilt (regret, resolve to not be party to it, etc etc, all of which I lump under the inadequate term "guilt"). The good that people can do gets held up, suppressed, co-opted into the ugly evilness.

At a link above, the "Lost White Boys" for example I am sure DOES apply to many kids, but not for the reasons given and not amenable to the "cures" suggested. The good that could be done for kids gets sucked down the "don't wanna be racist" drain. The Celtic cross Bryn mentions, the songs that would have cheered and strengthened people via Fair Fund-- even one or two in the mix of ugliness that might occur-- all that goes corrupted. Another thread talked about how white USers felt learning of a verse usually not performed, in a spiritual, stops the song when they find the horror that verse describes.


We must keep singing through that sense of "what do I do now," and we must keep connecting in diversity. We must not let fear of offending stop us in our tracks-- we must learn ways to work together, through that fear, and to a better approach. We must not let that which is designed to divide, divide us after all, or shut us up.

~S~

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:50 AM

Battle for Britain campaign

Well the BNP is not only anti semitic, anti black, anti Islam etc but its manifesto for the European elections favours banning Eastern European migrant workers and, in particular, to send legitimate Polish workers back to Poland.
Simon Darby said "I mean how would the Polish people feel if their government started letting in millions of Vietnamese and letting them work for three bowls of rice a day."

In recent local elections the party has campaigned from a strong anti-immigrant platform and in March unveiled new poster to front its upcoming campaign for the European elections **.

The poster shows a nostalgic, sepia toned picture of a Spitfire - the fighter that helped turn the tide against the German Luftwaffe during WW2 - above the headline "Battle for Britain".

A closer inspection of the poster however has revealed that the Spitfire was actually flown by Polish pilots during Battle of Britain, in fact 303 Squadron - the astonishingly brave regiment of Polish fighter pilots who were rescued from France and battled the Nazis over the skies of England !!


( ** Despite being bitterly opposed to the current EU, the BNP desperately wants to get an MEP elected this summer because it will unlock a shedload of funding )

Subject: English Fair Fund, BNP, PC and White Guilt
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:18 AM

PS, a hi with salute to Bryn-- one of the most "multiculturally competent" Catters. I learned that term recently in some other studies, as it refers to people able to deal with folks of all sorts, effectively.

~S~

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:36 AM

Emma. "The poster shows a nostalgic, sepia toned picture of a Spitfire - the fighter that helped turn the tide against the German Luftwaffe during WW2 - above the headline "Battle for Britain".

That is the self-same logo which appears on the election communication which was delivered to me yesterday in the post. But how have you identified it as belonging to 303 Squadron? I can't see anything to indicate thus.

In any event, it would not be the first time the far right have tripped themselves up like this. I remember a National Front poster which purported to show large numbers of Black people in a shopping centre "somewhere in Britain". It emerged in fact that the photograph was taken in Kingston, Jamaica.

"Despite being bitterly opposed to the current EU, the BNP desperately wants to get an MEP elected this summer because it will unlock a shedload of funding).

That's not the only reason. The BNP seem to be forging unions with fascist parties, some of whom are already represented in the European Parliament. (And beyond Europe in fact. There was an interesting report in Saturday's Independent about them cosying up to South African millionaires who want to see apartheid reintroduced in South Africa.)

I don't think this is just a case of compadres with a common cause. Rather, I think the BNP, and the other European fascists have adopted some of the idea of survivalism, which has been knocking round far right circles for years. Basically, they believe that all the world's races which aren't Anglo-Saxon-Aryan are genetically degenerate, a drag on the white master race, and have been feather bedded by a combination of evolutionary circumstance and the benevolent good nature, energy and foresight of the ASAs.

However, they also believe that all this feather bedding, along with climate change, fossil fuel shortages etc., is leading the whole world into a doomed apocolypse, and that the human race will end up slaughtering each other for what's left of the world's resources. Rather like the script of a Mad Max movie. The winners of this diabolical debacle will of course be the fittest and strongest and the smartest, IE., the white races. It is in fact a very warped version of Darwin's law of survival. Therefore, to prepare for Armageddon, the European fascist parties plan to forge a Union of European fascist states, along with like minded souls elsewhere. EG. white South Africans.

With this accomplished, Europe becomes a virtual fortress, with Europe fighting the Third World, and quite likely Russia and China, for what's left of the world's resources, and destroying most of the world's peoples in the process.

A frightening scenario, and one which will be familiar to anyone who's read 1984, or carefully studied the BNP website.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:48 AM

( ** Despite being bitterly opposed to the current EU, the BNP desperately wants to get an MEP elected this summer because it will unlock a shedload of funding )

Isn't their hypocrisy amazing? Nick Griffin and his thugs certainly have alot to answer for. My father would turn over in his grave if he saw that Spitfire poster. (He fought in the Battle of Britain,for something Griffin and Co. wouldn't understand even if they fell over it in the street)

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:59 AM

Fred, I confess that I learned of the identity of the Spitfire from a reported statement by a spokesperson at the Royal Air Force museum who was quoted as saying:

"The Spitfire in the poster can be identified as belonging to 303 Squadron of the Polish Air Force by the code letters 'RF' painted in front of the RAF roundel.

"303 Squadron operated Spitfires from Northolt, Kirton-in-Lindsey, Coltishall and other RAF stations in the UK between 1941 and 1945 after flying Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain."

I suspect that this was the first way the BNP did too :)

In fact I have a tenuous family link with the squadron as my mother, before meeting my father, was engaged to a Polish pilot who was one of the many who lost their lives.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 14 May 09 - 12:18 PM

btw it isn't going to stop me drinking English beer - ('warm' - of course) either!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 14 May 09 - 04:09 PM

Thank goodness: a thread that has intelligent people making incisive comments about the BNP (unlike some other Mudcat threads - may this one stay sane).

I, too, looked at the BNP site (link above), having had their vile and scary leaflet through my door today. Scary because it tell lies that are widely believed. Scary because the underlying motivation of everything in it is racist hatred. Scary because I keep hearing people locally say phrases that it is obvious they don't know the meaning of and have just picked up from the BNP. I know it's the BNP because these people claim the BNP are not racist, just nationalist, and it isn't the same thing ... apparently. Any discussion I try to have with them - about different sorts of nationalisms, that the historical roots and future intentions of nationalism are key, that nationalism is different in nature when it tries to defend an oppressed people than when it justifies that oppression - is just met with blank looks. They don't know their history or their politics. Thinking or analysing is too difficult for these people.   

Back to that scary website. Racist criminal Nick Griffin has the following on it. When someone writes this sort of ridiculous garbage, where oh where do you start the deconstruction?

"Flicking burning matches into boxes of gelignite! That's the only way to describe the irresponsible antics of the far-left as they use the distant conflict in Gaza as an excuse to wind up young Muslims. Their aim is to spark clashes with the police that would 'radicalise' the Muslim community in the hope that they could then be recruited to Marxist revolutionary organisations such as the Socialist Workers Party and Respect.

"Just how frighteningly close these white atheist cranks are to sparking riots that could tear many parts of Britain apart can be judged from the two pieces of video footage accompanying this report."

What *really* scares me is that those local people I mentioned earlier are what you might think of as 'nice' people on the surface, but they make excuses for the BNP's criminal past and try to tell me they're not like that now. They are ripe and ready for the BNP. I wish I could be persuaded that my fears are ungrounded. My experience tells me otherwise.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 14 May 09 - 04:14 PM

Murder has been committed in the name of the BNP. For details get hold of a copy of Billy Bragg's A Progressive Patriot.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 May 09 - 05:32 PM

Am I the only one who thinks it ironic that the BNP are campaigning to recognise St George's day - when he wasn't English and probably never visited England? In fact, he was more likely to be one of these 'racial foriegners' they are trying to 'repatriate'.

LTS

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 May 09 - 06:37 PM

Don't forget that you can check out their (very strange) membership: download a spreadsheet of their membership a couple of years agoi at Wikileaks.

You'll be shocked, then amused, to see your local puffed up nonentities there.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:53 PM

"Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail - PM
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:21 AM

Bryn Pugh

I think I shall have to stop wearing my Croes Celtaidd (Celtic cross) until after the elections.

Don't do that, Bryn. That's handing it over to the Nasties. Wear it with pride and give anybody a mouthful if they accuse you of being in the BNP. It would be like not singing John Barleycorn just because Nick Griffin sings it at the end of BNP meetings.

Excellent statement by TheSnail. May have to stop arguing with him.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: banksie
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:04 AM

"lawful, humane and voluntary repatriation of the resident foreigners of the UK".

That probably means most of the population, including most of the BNP membership. I wish I could remember the guy's name but there was a TV show I saw a year or two ago in which a proudly racist individual and (I think) a BNP activist - claiming to to be `Brit' through and through - had his ancestry traced and found that his great grandfather had actually come from somewhere like Romania or Armenia and had created an entirely false history once he'd been naturalised.

I just love the way they go on about Anglo-Saxons, forgetting that they were, of course, just another group of `bloody foreigners' invading these green and pleasant lands. If they want to be `British' I would guess their best chance would be to move to north west Wales - oh, and learn the language too.

And the worst thing is, I feel, that the BNP are the worst kind of `little Englanders' who assume that, once we've got rid of everybody we don't like that things here will be, some how, OK. I suspect most of the population will by then be trying their hand at illegal/economic emigration into countries like Poland to try and find work, for their won't be much here. And as we will be out of Europe (if they have their way) we'll find them all being shipped back here in chains or similar.

They are, in the end, built totally on a cheap trick that the human always falls for - pick someone as `the enemy', blame everything on them, and get the population to persecute the hell out of them rather than face up to the real issues.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:22 AM

Thanks for starting the thread, Fred, and for the useful info, Emma B. We need to make sure we get the maximum turnout at the European elections here in the North West, otherwise there's every chance they'll get an MEP elected on the back of voter apathy.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:25 AM

banksie:
I wish I could remember the guy's name but there was a TV show I saw a year or two ago in which a proudly racist individual and (I think) a BNP activist - claiming to to be `Brit' through and through - had his ancestry traced and found that his great grandfather had actually come from somewhere like Romania or Armenia and had created an entirely false history once he'd been naturalised.

The presenter was the art critic Andrew Graham-Dixon and the programme, on Channel 4, was one of the best and most incisive of the year. Carol Thatcher participated and was shown DNA evidence that her family had roots in, among other places, the Middle East. I recall very well the most vociferous of "Brits" who had all sorts of nasty "foreign" origins - he could barely speak when presented with the evidence. One very hoity-toity woman threatened to sue the programme makers, but I believe nothing came of it.

Anyone with a modicum of sense - particularly anyone who's delved deeply into their family history (as I have for nearly 30 years) - will know that you just can't play these silly BNP-style race games. In fact, they're not going on race, as such, merely on skin colour, i.e. the bleeding obvious. Such stupidity is mind-boggling. I think it was possibly Joan Armatrading who, when asked if she'd like to be given money to go "home", replied, "What - to Birmingham?"

Simple mathematics (x2) will tell you that, unless you know the exact origins of all ancestors (2 parents, 4 gandparents, 8 g-grandparents, 16 g-g-grandparents, 32 g-g-g-grandparents, etc.), assumptions about being being a "true Brit" or anything else are cuckoo.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:30 AM

I experienced a rather scary moment on St George's day of this year. I was walking back home through a housing estate, here in S. Manchester (an estate which is ethnically mixed - although mainly white, working class). I first noticed lots of red and white crosses of St. George in upstairs windows - but it was when I encountered a toddler with her face painted with a Union Jack that I experienced a strong feeling of unease. Was all of this a manifestation of the Far Right - or just my imagination?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:38 AM

He said the BNP's ultimate aim was the "lawful, humane and voluntary repatriation of the resident foreigners of the UK".

Saw one of those on telly the other day. Oh, he speaks English well enough now, but he's not one of us let me tell you. Wasn't even born here. Classic example of foreigners waltzing in here, taking up positions that could perfectly well have been occupied by true-born Brits, depriving us of our opportunities in our own country. And I'll tell you what else, he's even had the nerve to marry one of ours, then bring up a whole family and make out that they're English! Second-generation resident foreigners, more like. And none of them have got proper jobs - they're all living off our taxes. Disgusting.

Prince Philip, I think his name was.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:29 AM

What has boggled my mind is the slogan on their leaflet "because we've earned the right", followed by the names of various battles, starting with Trafalgar and ending with the Falklands.
Have they looked at army lists and worked out precisely how many of our soldiers came from suitable blood lines? Somehow I doubt it. And are they saying that only families who have provided cannon fodder for all these battles have "earned the right"?

But if that is what they're saying, then it's a far more varied range of blood lines than they're suggesting, including 303 Squadron.

I particularly liked the statement on the leaflet by the hospital doctor who had seen what immigration "has done to the NHS". Yup. Provided a lot of doctors, consultants and nursing staff, that's what.

Anne

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:30 AM

The BNP has had only two leaders since its founding in the early 1980s.Griffin's predecessor , the late John Tyndall, can be seen on "google images" dressed in full nazi uniform posing with two fellow nazis under a framed photograph of Hitler and in front of a swastika.
Griffin,likewise on google images, can also be seen in his "white power" shirt at some racist demonstration.
What a pair of unsavoury thugs.Tyndall had six serious criminal convictions while his successor was convicted of incitement to racial hatred back in 1998.
ifor

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 May 09 - 06:42 AM

I think you'll find that quite a lot of Prince Philip's ancestors, apart from the Greeks and the Germans, were English.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 May 09 - 07:31 AM

Huh. Bunch of filthy inbreds - send 'em all back to Saxe-Coburg-Gotha...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 May 09 - 07:44 AM

I am outraged that the GLA employs extremists. I suggest those who feel the same should email [e-mail] as avised by gla press and pr officer.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:03 AM

Don't think for one minute what happened in Europe in the 1930s/40s can't happen again. The ethnic cleansing in Bosnia is still recent history.

it only takes a handful of extremists to get a foothold for things to get out of control. Historically the Nazis were a minority party which had virtually no creditability. The rate by which they came to power is frightening.

Unfortunately, election campaigning, even by the major parties, is based on criticising the incumbant government with little or no reference to what they would do differently, if anything at all. The campaigns usually say vote for us for a ..whatever... Britain. How, What, When... a slight lack of commitment.

Im sure that BNPs literature wont be to the effect of vote for us and we will promote divide and rule and blame it all on minorities....

The BNP and other far right parties in Europe are worrying and the implications are something I might go into at a later date.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:39 AM

Following the MP claims scandal, the response from most people I speak to seems to be to not bother voting. That could be dangerous.

Maybe there should be a 'not the BNP' choice on the vote slip, for such people who dont particularly want to vote for anyone else.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 15 May 09 - 08:49 AM

"Following the MP claims scandal, the response from most people I speak to seems to be to not bother voting"
The reaction of one young man on television a couple of nights ago to this was "I'm voting for the BNP this time". It is getting very worrying!!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 15 May 09 - 09:27 AM

Paul Burke. "Don't forget that you can check out their (very strange) membership: download a spreadsheet of their membership a couple of years ago at Wikileaks."

That list has been useful to me on a couple of occasions. In particular, a former member of a one time famous English folk group (I won't name him for fear of causing embarressment), told me the other day that a cousin of his had been a member of a fascist organisation in the early 1960s. He then explained how said folk group had gone to a public meeting to hear a speaker from the newly created republic of Ghana. Some nutter at the back throws a bottle of acid at the platform. The group chase him outside. There, on the other side of the road, is a fascist demonstratation and in the middle of the demonstration is this bloke's cousin. All in the past, he thinks. Nothing more than youthful folly, in fact.

I asked him what the bloke's name was. He told me. I looked him up. Name, address and former occupation all tallied. The guy is still alive and still active and he is now a member of the BNP.

Never trust the leopard to change its spots.

Anne. "I particularly liked the statement on the leaflet by the hospital doctor who had seen what immigration "has done to the NHS". Yup. Provided a lot of doctors, consultants and nursing staff, that's what."

That struck me too. I've just spent a couple of days in hospital and I can tell you the proportion of "non-Britons" on the hospital staff far outweighed the proportion of "non-Britons" in the hospital beds.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Guest Rupert
Date: 15 May 09 - 10:16 AM

Just sent this to the Guardian and a couple of locals - the more the merrier to show them for what they are. Thanks to Emma B for the information.

As every schoolboy will know the Spitfire was a jolly handy thing to have had around during the last world war, however, like the Union Flag it seems to have been adopted by the BNP as an ever enduring symbol of total Britishness. Had their schoolboys in residence done their homework they would have found the plane they have used in their publicity was one flown by Polish pilots during the Battle of Britain, in fact 303 Squadron - the astonishingly brave regiment of Polish fighter pilots who were rescued from France and battled the Nazis over the skies of England.
Perhaps the BNP thought it was a plumber making his way back home.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 15 May 09 - 11:23 AM

Britannia, she's half English, she speaks Latin at home
St George was born in the Lebanon, how he got here I don't know
And those three lions on your shirt,
They never sprang from England's dirt
Them lions are half English and I'm half English too.

- England Half English. Billy Bragg

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: paula t
Date: 15 May 09 - 04:27 PM

We received the BNP leaflet today. It went straight into the bin. It's bad enough that I shout at the telly and radio 4 - without standing in the kitchen shouting at a piece of paper too!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:50 PM

It was of course a depression and useless mainstream politicians that let a previous idiot into power.

Votr. Votr Green.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 May 09 - 05:50 PM

Sorry, the battery in by ketboard has packed uo.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Hugo
Date: 16 May 09 - 07:42 AM

The BNP had its Euro election training manual leaked in the press a few weeks ago.The author of the manual ,its leader the ex public school boy Nick Griffin, warned his own to be on their best behaviour.He described members of his own organisation as "compulsive liars","Walter Mitty characters", "oddballs" and "cranks".

I would go along with add but would add,baroom bigots, foul mouthed racists, fascist thugs and hooligans.
Hugo

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 May 09 - 07:55 AM

We got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day; so did my Indian neighbours presumably. We also got a Green Party leaflet which depressed me, though for different reasons. What waste of our natural resources, recycled or otherwise!

If they repatriated me they'd have to quarter me first...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 May 09 - 08:08 AM

Being a Yank - I had never heard about the BNP until one of the Mudcat Maine-iacs bragged about YouTube postings with thousands of hits on his recordings of sailor songs....and you Brits urged the singer to distance himself dispite the excellent publicity.

That led me to explore all of GoodFightLad's musical collection (much removed now) and to view the all the video links. It appears he and BNP have some valid issues - I especially like the poster "This is a British BullDog NOT a Brussel's Sprout."

For the sake of a Yank seeking more information - could you Please Post a few links to the BNP party sites that seem to be getting your folkie knickers all in bind?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 May 09 - 08:32 AM

Gargoyle. I've no intention of publicising links to the BNP, or any other Nazi organisation. If you want an idea of what the BNP are about, take a look at the Ku Klux Klan, with whom they have fraternal links.

Guest. This topic is not BS. I started it after receiving information about a BNP fronted initiative, which could very possibly have fooled non-BNP Mudcat members into playing for bogus St Georges Day celebrations. In any event, as I understand it, anonymous postings from "Guests" are not allowed on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 16 May 09 - 11:46 AM

"could very possibly have fooled non-BNP Mudcat members into playing for bogus St Georges Day celebrations"

I'm just wondering how stupid you think we are?

Print the links by all means, let those want, know the enemy.

"In any event, as I understand it, anonymous postings from "Guests" are not allowed on Mudcat"

sorry I'm chortlig here at this non-response

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 16 May 09 - 11:57 AM

Gin,

I am not going to start publicing a racist/fascist organisation whose aims and objectives I loathe and despise.

"In any event, as I understand it, anonymous postings from "Guests" are not allowed on Mudcat"

Sorry. This was a reply to someone who posted under the name of "Guest". Not allowed on Mudcat. "Guest's" posting was removed a couple of minutes after I had posted mine. Thanks, Mudcat Moderator.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 May 09 - 12:40 PM

We received the BNP leaflet today. It went straight into the bin. It's bad enough that I shout at the telly and radio 4 - without standing in the kitchen shouting at a piece of paper too!

We shout at Radio 4 and the news on telly too, when racists bastards are permitted airtime.

I bet the neighbors do wonder.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 May 09 - 12:42 PM

Meant to say also and clicked befroe typing it..

we should use those leaflets to collect dog poo and put them back through the letter boxes of know BNP members.

Oh NO! I did not wirte that out loud!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 09 - 12:54 PM

Please Post a few links to the BNP party sites There's already been a published link to a BNP site in this thread, gargoyle. And in any sense there's a useful resource called Google.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Llanfair
Date: 16 May 09 - 01:04 PM

Unfortunately, Nick Griffin lives in the next village to me in Mid-Wales. Soon after we moved here, 13 years ago, we had some literature through the door with all the holocaust denial stuff as well as the usual BNP propaganda. I have to admit I was sickened, wondering what kind of place we'd come to. It turned out that all the
locals despised him, and all he stands for. Still do.
It always amazes me how many BT vans there are in this rural area, and I suspect that he is being VERY closely watched.

I don't think he's going to usurp our Lembit any time soon.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 May 09 - 01:09 PM

gurgly is a big boy and knows how to search for things hisself

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 16 May 09 - 01:20 PM

I don,t have a problem posting a link to the BNP, so those who wish my know more about this insidious politcal presence (know your enemy)

BNP

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 May 09 - 05:05 AM

Here's what the BNP Activists Handbook has to say on the subject of St Georges Day and other "cultural events".   

ST GEORGE'S DAY: Ideally our units will lead their communities in organising, or at least supporting cultural events such as St. George's Day celebrations (April 23d). Most regions of the country have cultural events which are unique to that area, or county. For example, the Padstow Hobby Horse in Cornwall, Arbor Day in Shropshire, Garland King Day and the Well Dressing in Derbyshire, the Marshfield Mummers in Wiltshire, the Haxey Hood in Humberside and countless others.
Some such celebrations, now very popular, have only been revived in recent years - the Hastings Jack in the Green and Whittlesey Straw Bear festivals show just how big such things can get. Why not do some research to see if there's a lost local tradition that you can inspire a team of enthusiasts to revive? Our ancient national festivals, such as May Day, Guy Fawkes Night and Christmas, should also be staunchly supported - lest the PC lunatic health and safety police and the Islamists manage to ban them all.

Maybe it's encouraging to realise that this bunch of "patriots" don't even know the geography of the country they claim to defend. "Somewhere in England", presumably.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 05:54 AM

Why are so many down on the BNP ? I have always been a Labour voter, I will be voting BNP from now on. Their politics are clear, Britain needs this party now more than ever. And there are a lot more like me out there. This country is in a mess and there is no point in closing the door on a dirty room, get in there and clean it out.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:00 AM

Because they are racists. If you can't see the problem with racism, you aren't as clever as you think.

Example: Yugoslavia used to be a thriving, modern, industrial country. Then they got a leader who tried to run it for the benefit of "proper European" Serbs and not the "Turk" Moslems. Result? War. Country wrecked. No Yugoslavia. Everybody poorer except the warlords and drug smugglers.

Example: Rwanda. nuff said.

If you complain that they are all immigrants and have no links with Britain, how do you think Britain got rich? Hint- we had an Empire. They were rich before that.

You say you used to be a Labour voter; so did I, since I first voted in 1971, and I can't imagine circumstances that would persuade me to vote for that unprincipled bunch again. But I'm not going to vote for some other unprincipled bunch either.

If racism doesn't offend you, you are inviting others to discriminate against yourself. Sauce for the goose and all that. Have it that way if you want, but don't start whinging when you find you're not one of the in crowd.

The Labour party lost its principles when they tried to pretend that class doesn't exist, and were happy to join the ranks of the rich. The split is between over- entitled and ordinary folk, not between British and foreign. Do you really think you have more in common with Fred Goodwin or Richard Branson than with an Asian warehouse stacker, a Chinese cockle picker or a Polish farm labourer?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:14 AM

Paul. Well said. But don't let disgust with Labour put you off voting in the Euro elections. Don't forget, because the results are based on proportional representation, plus massive voter apathy the BNP only need a tiny upswing from the (approx) 4% they got last time to start securing seats.

I am totally pissed off with the labour Party at present - and to make things worse they are the ruling group on my local council, which is currently closing no less than 49 Leisure and Cultural facilities, despite the deafening howls of protest from their electorate. Nevertheless, I shall be in the polling booth on June 4th and I shall find somebody - anybody - to vote for, just to keep those bastards out of the european Parliament.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,peterfirth
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:51 AM

On my too few visits to the UK, my arguments with members of this racist organization have been over the questions of,firstly, how far back in time does this "Englishness" go and secondly, what is England going to do with all the repatriated whites that are going to arrive from Australia, USA, Canada, and South Africa as these countries also adopt BNP policies for their own indiginous people.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 08:10 AM

Paul, I also pity the BNP for having to put up with the media's unrelenting smear campaign. Why are so many people against talking to them. A few years ago our government was talking to Sinn fein while they were killing our soldiers ! These people knew the identities of terroists. But our government still spoke to them !!! Is the BNP worse than that???

I feel the other parties have lost touch with the working man. In my situation at present The place where I work we are being replaced from our jobs by eastern block cheap labour. But my council tax, household bills still rise. Britain I agree is a multi cutural society but we have gone too PC worried about offending other faiths at christmas and all manner of things we read about in the media !!!

If they don't want to follow our culture and laws . Why do they still want to live in the uk?? When I worked in Saudi I have had to follow their customs and laws and had to respect them. As I was I their country ! ! Why is that different to the uk where we are so afraid of offending other faiths etc ??

It will be a protest to the other parties to wake up and think of us first. The working man of the UK.I would never have considered voting for them before, but I can understand the reasons people are voting for them,as enough is enough on immigration. Gordon Brown can't even house the population of this country.its appalling let's hope he listens b4 its too late.

I think BNP will take a suprising number of votes. Perhaps then people will listen and Labour will realise that this country should not be seen as a Utopia for people from other countries.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 May 09 - 08:36 AM

You've forgotten the basics of solidarity Al. It's NOT with bosses, however white they may be, it's with working folk, whatever their origins. I'm descended from "economic migrants"- Irish ones- and I dare say you are. "They" do adopt our customs, far more than you may think, and the different religion is no more shhocking today than my own abncestors' Catholicism was to a mostly- Protestant country. The same arguments about "tem" taking over were forwarded at the time of the Catholic emancipation debates almost 200 years ago.

Since it's a folk forum:

My union's flag has two joined hands
With lighted flame in common fight,
But trouble's brewing in the sheds
For both those workers' hands are white.

But workers' hands are white and black
And the work they do is all the same,
Till prejudice and fear come in
To break the grip and dim the flame.

The shunters broke that grip one day-
The King's Cross goods yard went on strike,
Not in a fight for better pay,
But a coloured man they did not like.

They did not like that coloured man-
They would not work with him, they said,
In truth it touched their overtime
And to a colour bar it led.

The colour bar strikers soon went back,
Jim Figgins led the NUR,
And when they asked for his support,
He said "We'll have no colour bar."

"Get back to work!" Jim Figgins cried,
"This is a strike we'll not support,
This is the kind of ignorance
That the unions have always fought!"

But though the union won that fight
The pressure's there and rising higher.
Smoke rises in the engine sheds
And where ther's smoke, there's always fire.

Man, don't let smoke get in your eyes,
Kindle that flame and keep it bright.
To proud traditions still be true
And make those joined hands black and white.

1959 I believe- anyone know who wrote it?

---

This thread (click) says "Colour Bar Strike" was by Mayo & MacColl. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Ifor
Date: 17 May 09 - 09:45 AM

To Al,
Its not a smear to report the FACTS about the BNP.
It is packed with fascists,Racist and violent thugs.It was formed out of the remains of the extremely thuggish National Front in the early 1980s and has only ever had two leaders.
The first one John Tyndall was an open and brazen nazi and can be seen in full nazi uniform on "google images".Go on take a look at it and then come tell us if it is a smear.He had six serious convictions for race hate crimes,violent assaults and belonging to a paramilitary organisation.

His successor ,Nick Griffin,is an ex public schoolboy who has been involved in racist activities since his teenage years.He can also be seen on "google images" wearing his white power T shirt.He has a conviction for holocaust denial and incitement to racial hatred under his rather large belt.

But the BNP is stuffed with these unsavoury thugs from top to bottom."Searchlight" is a good source of info about this horrible organisation but readers could also try "Hope Not Hate" or the "Unite Against Fascism" website. Searchlight is good because it has a huge archive about the far right which goes back several decades.

ifor

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:29 AM

ifor, If you search for things to suit you case,you can find them. Football clubs,political parties, actors and men of the cloth. None of the above from 20 plus years ago would change my views on the party.

I do believe people like myself who voted for Labour want to see a change. A lot of people will not openly express their views due to people like you giving history lessons. The ballot box next year will do the talking.

There is no political party for the working class, that is fact.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:40 AM

Terrifying thought, former labourites going over to racist BNP. I am very sorry to see it.   Hate and fear will never be the answer to any problem.

At the moment I am listening to Billy Bragg's Ideology, quite by accident.

I am sitll wondering why the lib dems haven't made a stonger move either left or right in order to pick up the disillusioned labour voters or tories?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:22 AM

VT, Lib dems hop on and off the fence, they sway with wind, no one takes them serious. Don't listen to all this rubbish about the BNP, I did at first, I was surprised the number of my friends who voted for them. The young BNP chap on our council is really nice.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:30 AM

A1 - you are barking up the wrong tree. I am one of them foreigners taking a job that should be for a proper born Brit and I am using up NHS resources, lots of them.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 May 09 - 12:18 PM

I read this thread with some interest. England (as opposed to Great Britain) is a nation of immigrants, as we are in the US. Granted, it might be that a higher proportion of the immigrants to England came as invaders (e.g., the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Norse and Normans). If one goes back to prehistory, every single human being there - and here - came from someplace else. What date of entry or degree of pure blood (however they define it) does your BNP require? Or is it a matter of the amount of melanin in a person's skin tone?

I am reminded of a story from our bad old days, when a lady from Louisiana who was a stalwart of the Daughters of the Confederacy was discovered to be 1/128 (or maybe it was 1/256) of African descent. Not only was she drummed out of the DofC, but she had to get her driver's license description changed from "White" to "Colored" (antique term).

I was down at the Celtic Festival here in Albuquerque yesterday, and had an interesting discussion with a member of a group advocating "English out of Ireland". He really had no answer when I asked him if, after the logical response to that kind of ethnic cleansing occurred, if a hypothetically united Ireland was ready to provide homes for all of the individuals of Irish or partially Irish descent who were evicted from England. Maybe the population of Belfast and Liverpool could just swap?

I don't envy you your BNP problem, and I won't for a second suggest that our equivalents aren't just as bad, if not worse.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 12:48 PM

I think most skip the history lessons and eat what is on their plate today,not what was in the larder 30 years ago.

Most people view the scenery outside their own front door today, few besides yourself lives their life going through old photograph albums.

The Labour party was once the party of the working class. You could not place a hair between them and the torys now.

Many feel our government has lost the plot and are looking a party that puts British working class needs first. I really wish you would stop trying to blacken the name of this party.

MPs from all sides recognise that they are likely to be victims of an anti-politics vote in the European and county council elections.The establishment would have you vote for absolutely anyone except the BNP.

You would have to be pretty stupid if you didn't understand that the way to really protest and give the establishment a kicking was to BNP.

Yes I am proud to be British, is that so wrong ?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 May 09 - 01:50 PM

My bullshit filter tells me we haven't got a Labour defector here, but a party troll- perhaps our old friend of a couple of years ago.

People who are disaffected with the Labour party don't bellyache about history lessons. History is the very stuiff of the Labour movement.

I'm sorry for wasting time on him.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:00 PM

To answer a comment in the original post:
IE., the BNP have set up something called The English Fair Fund. This is to "give grants to help local community groups celebrate St. Georges Day". No mention of the other Patron Saints' days of these isles.
No mention of St Andrew, St David & St Patrick because (as it says) it is the "English Fair Fund"

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:10 PM

From: GUEST,Al - PM
Date: 17 May 09 - 05:54 AM

Why are so many down on the BNP ? I have always been a Labour voter, I will be voting BNP from now on. Their politics are clear, Britain needs this party now more than ever. And there are a lot more like me out there. This country is in a mess and there is no point in closing the door on a dirty room, get in there and clean it out.

Wind up merchant, ignore it.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:21 PM

I am sorry you both feel that way. I repeat, I have always voted Labour. I have never voted BNP. Yes I do intend to in June.

Clearly you are both Labour party diehards or wearing blinkers.

I hope to see you both after the council elections in June.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:31 PM

A quick click on your name reveals that you have been peddling the same crap for several years. You're simply a liar.

Sad for the previous, American, Guest Al whose name you usurped.

---

Calling somebody a liar is not considered civil conduct in most cultures. Please keep this discussion civil. Thank you.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:34 PM

If you support white supremism, then that is your prerogative.

if you support a party that makes devisive statements designed to divide one disadvantaged group against another, that's your prerogative.

If you want to uphold promotion of race hate (and other minority hate) that's your prerogative.

If you want to support a party that upholds views similar to another party that led to the deaths of tens of millions in the last century, that's your prerogative.

But do n't expect to get that many friends here.


if you want to support a party that upholds the above just to make a protest vote. it is the actions of people like you that allow evil to get a foothold.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:36 PM

Sorry, that's not me. Check and you will find it's a common enough name. You may wish to attempt to discredit me, that is meaningless. Seems I got to you Paul.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:39 PM

"if you want to support a party that upholds the above just to make a protest vote. it is the actions of people like you that allow evil to get a foothold."

please remember that Adolf Hitler was elected democratically.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 May 09 - 02:59 PM

Please remember that the Nazis started off as a minority party. Once such parties begin getting seats their agenda moves from back rooms to public debating chambers. Watch the GLA webcasts. Whenever BArnbrook opens his mouth he adds racist overtones to his comments, for instance, he will talk about black crime statisitics, but no mention of white crime .. surprise surprise.

Once extreme views get into the mainstream, goalposts start moving - just a little at a time until issues that have once been extremist, get more and more into the centre ground.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 May 09 - 03:30 PM

""Why are so many down on the BNP ? I have always been a Labour voter, I will be voting BNP from now on. Their politics are clear, Britain needs this party now more than ever. And there are a lot more like me out there. This country is in a mess and there is no point in closing the door on a dirty room, get in there and clean it out.""

My friend, you are reacting in exactly the same way that the population of Germany was persuaded to act in very similar economic circumstances in 1933.

That reaction led directly to the dictatorial government, by decree, of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party, and from that to the Second World War.

Make NO mistake about this. Griffen and his cronies are NOT YOUR FRIENDS and they are NOT BRITAIN'S SAVIOURS.

They are out and out Nazi racists, and you risk all freedom and security by voting for them. They thrive on the disappointments, and dissatisfaction, of voters, and they profess to care for British people, and the British way of life.

They care for nothing but gaining power, and if, God forbid, they ever do, you will find out what it is like to live in a genuine police state with none of the democratic rights you now enjoy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 17 May 09 - 03:31 PM

Regardless of who you are GUEST Al you're still peddling crap (to use my favourite American term)

"Sorry, that's not me." That's what the Germans said at the end of the war, no Nazis here....

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 May 09 - 03:43 PM

Yes I suppose guest A1 would be an easy alias if one is too cowardly to use own name or a even usual forum identity.

If one fiercely believes in what they profess, they stand up to be counted.

Maybe A1 is simply posting contentiously in order to see who stands up.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:08 PM

Narrow minds do tend to lead to narrow views. I am allowed an opinion. I do not believe the lies some of you sprout. Labour has failed you, me and the country. When someone like myself adds a comment you do not agree with you hit the insult button. You seem to require help Virginia.

Alan Meale

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:53 PM

Narrow minds, narrow views...yup BNP knows all about those.

You seem to require help Virginia..and you're going to lead Virginia into the light, so to speak?
I'd laugh my face off if what you're saying wasn't so sad. God, my father would turn in his grave if he knew to what lengths some go on about what he fought to defend during WWII. You can serve us up the BNP propaganda as much as you want (we can also read it on their website). Repeating it over and over is not going to make it any truer.

By the way, you speak only for yourself, I hope, don't even profess to speak for me, I've been around the houses more that a few times in my 60 odd years (some of them VERY odd :-D)on this planet.

This whole thread is taking on a VERY surreal feel to it...or is it just me?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:18 PM

OK, Al, answer me this. Nick Griffin has said - recently - that the BNP's ultimate aim is the "lawful, humane and voluntary repatriation of the resident foreigners of the UK". And in the category of 'foreigners' he includes people of foreign stock who were born here*.

What happens if they don't want to go? What would a BNP government do if it announced its first "lawful, humane and voluntary" repatriation scheme and got no takers? Would they just say "OK, never mind, the offer's there if you want it" and get on with governing an ethnically mixed country? I find that hard to believe.

What if the 'resident foreigners' didn't want to go? What if they were quite happy to live in Britain? (They certainly seem quite happy now.) Would the government encourage them to go - a bit of discriminatory legislation here, a few broken windows there? Would they be taken into protective custody and housed in special camps? (Just to protect them from irate true-born Britons, you understand.) You need to think this through.

Another question: what are Nick Griffin's views on fascism? I take an interest in Italian politics, and the leader of the National Alliance over there - which is an ex-fascist party - has actually denounced Fascism as "absolute evil". Has Nick Griffin said anything similar? Or is he still a Fascist?

*Such as my wife, my children and Prince Charles.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 10:40 PM

Al - you are right in one thing. We were betrayed by the Fettes publicschoolboy B. Liar who suborned the Labour party. What we now have is actually "New Labour", increasingly in thrall to a creature with "something of the night" about him, as Doris Karloff said - probably her only really good line ever.   

But conversely the only chance we have of getting the country back is the Labour Party. Your Sieg Heil brigade will destroy. Check the criminal records of some of the senior members. Check the history of Hitler and Mussolini.

The real left with real principles is too fragmented to achieve reform (and some of them may not be as principled as we might wish, I always wonder how Galloway affords his suits). Our only chance is to lean on the Labour party to get back to its roots, to pursue the Brown/Obama axis that will have us out of recession before anyone else (except for those with unexposed banking systems who didn't relly go in).

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 09 - 11:35 PM

Are you THIS Alan Meale?

"PROPOSED BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY MARCH IN LIVERPOOL
20:3:09
Mrs Louise Ellman
Mrs Ann Cryer
Jeremy Corbyn
Peter Bottomley
Kelvin Hopkins
Mr John Leech
Mr Martin Caton
Graham Stringer
Alan Simpson
Mr Alan Meale

That this House notes the cancellation of the planned march in Liverpool city centre by the British National Party; condemns and opposes the hatred the march was intended to foster; welcomes the campaign against the march supported by the community, local politicians and the North West Trades Union Congress; and thanks all those members of the public on Merseyside who signed the Hope not Hate petition opposing the march, thus ensuring a clear and loud voice against the bigotry of the British National Party."

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:40 AM

I did not see any insult in what I said. You might well be really anti BNP and working this thread to see what supporters you can turn out.

It could happen.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 May 09 - 04:04 AM

Peace

Are you THIS Alan Meale?

"PROPOSED BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY MARCH IN LIVERPOOL

(With links added by me.)

Unlikely, I think.

I would suggest not bothering to debate with GUEST,Al.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:02 AM

The BNP seems to have a remarkable facility for shooting itself in the foot. First of all, they don't appear to know which counties Marshfield and Haxey are in. Now, the BBC news tells us that the photograph of so called "British workers" shown in their campaign leaflet was in fact posed by American male models.

What's more, Re., Emm B's noticing that the Spitfire in their leaflet actually belonged to the Polish Air Force Squadron, I've just found the following on Wikipeadia.

"As part of an advertising campaign designed to highlight their concerns about the numbers of foreign workers (including Polish migrants) in the United Kingdom, the British National Party used the distinctly British icon of a Spitfire to illustrate their idea of a Battle for Britain. Ironically, the Spitfire shown in their advertising was RF-D from 303 (Polish) Squadron."

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Wessex
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:31 AM

Total marxist madness,there is no apparent logic to anything they do,these corrupt ruling liberals of Europe have a massive hidden agenda,and that is to salt away billions of pounds in the guise of foreign aid,the trick has been used successfully many times in he last 40yrs.Today finally the British people have reached a watershed of realisation with regards to politicians during the last few weeks,-established MPs,home grown and European have been exposed by the press to be the crooks and charlatans that the BNP knew they were,-there are still some good ones out here,but they are very thin on the ground, the alternative is a perverse marxist hell that is too horrible to contemplate.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:48 AM

Some things the BNP (and UKIP) don't want you know about the freedom to work and live within the EU

750,000 Britons have made their homes in Spain.
(Although it's often thought that most of the British in Spain are retired, around 40 percent are actually under the age of 45 and another 40 percent are in the 45 - 64 age group.)

Approximately 200,000 British expatriates live in France

19,000 British citizens have made a permanent move to Italy

and around 700,000 Poles live in the UK

The freedom to live and work in countries in the EU is not just a 'one way ticket'


In addition, an educational approach to teaching the Foundation subjects in culturally diverse primary schools states -

'Challenging misinformation with facts is a sound strategy'

and continues..

'In view of the history of this island, the apparent assumption that the ethnic white majority is NOT of mixed ethnic origins, is intriguing and challenging!'

The BNP proganda is seductive in a period of economic crisis but never forget some of the statements from prominent members and leadership

"All blacks are muggers, all blacks have got Aids, we want them out of our country, we want white power."
- Steve Tyler Party spokesman and councillor candidate for the Fulham Broadway area of London

fact -
in Newcastle and Glasgow, cities with few blacks, mugging is a white offence. It is also largely a crime of inner cities

The Aids statement can simply be dismissed as the racist rubbish it is by looking at any official record of HIV in the UK although the incidence of late diagnosed individuals from high prevalance African countries resident in the UK because of the risk of stigma and discrimination remains a concern for people working in this field

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:53 AM

Wessex, would you care to address the questions I put to Al? We all know lots of good reasons to vote against different parties - the question is why anyone should vote for the BNP. I have to say that personally I'm strongly disinclined to vote for any party which I believe would try to deport my wife and children, or any party which I believe would have been on the wrong side in World War II.

But maybe I've been misinformed - perhaps what the BNP really believes in is peace, freedom and free beer for all, regardless of race, colour or creed. Can you clarify?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:02 AM

750,000 Britons have made their homes in Spain.


About a year ago, I was sitting in a bar in Gibraltar - full of British ex-pats on nostalgia-trips from across the border in Spain. I overheard one grumbled remark: If I have to live in a multicultural society, it might as well be one where the sun shines!"!

Regards

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Wessex
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:06 AM

I see in the Telegraph that the website run by British National Party is the most visited website of any UK political party, with more hits than all other parties put together, a survey has found.

Hitwise, the online competitive intelligence service, said that more than seven times as many visitors click on to the BNP's site as for the Labour Party and almost three times as many as for the Conservatives.

The study of over eight million internet accounts found that people who struggle to hold down a rewarding or well paying job, and rely on state benefits and the council for their accommodation were most likely to visit the site.

However, nearly a quarter of the site's visitors are people who have successfully established themselves and their families in comfortable suburban homes.

Young and well educated city dwellers are also over-represented amongst visitors to the BNP's homepage.

The proportion of the site's visitors that come from the middle classes is also increasing: 59pc are from the more affluent ABC1 social groups, and this figure is up from 50pc two years ago, Hitwise said.

Says it all really.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Gervase
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:42 AM

Aye, I'm an ABC1, I suppose (although that demographic usage is no longer used) - and I look at the BNP site. Most people with an abhorrence of fascism and extremism do look at it, because it's good to know the enemy.
The 'official' face of the BNP is hugely sanitised, however, since Grifin went to great pains to try to present fascism in an acceptable form. The party's guidelines on language and discipline are quite instructive; here's the take on anti-Semitism for example:

we do not believe that Jews per se are bad, though we do, of course, reserve the right to condemn individual Jews that are doing something bad. Because of the inflammatory nature of this issue, as well as the party's past, it is best to simply never speak or write of Jews at all.

If you want to see the true face of the BNP, however, you need to look at the efforts of the party's supporters on YouTube, and read the endorsements. You'll not find a more illiterate, hate-filled torrent of bilge. It also illustrates what is so bloody ludicrous about the party's political posturing - the rank and file are far too ignorant and incompetent to even think about running anything.
No doubt the BNP's share of the vote will increase on June 4th, but if ever the party found itself in power in any local authority you'd see the whole thing collapse in a mess of back-biting and vitriolic recrimination. The popular myth is that the Nazis made the trains run on time. Britain's neo-Nazis couldn't even run a train set.
They're nasty, dangerous thugs in a street fight, but they're a long way from posing a political threat - the only present danger is their ability to drag mainstream parties farther to the right in a shabby effort to court the votes of the Daily Express reading lumpenproletariat.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 May 09 - 09:23 AM

Gervaise. I agree. The BNP is a far nastier organisation than its website, or its publicity make it sound. Plus its longterm aim has far less to do with repatriation of foreigners, than with turning this country into a totalitarian facsist dictatorship. The bastards are a million miles away from coming to power at the moment, but so too was Hitler in 1927. Don't give the buggars an inch.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 May 09 - 10:57 AM

Charlie Brooker's Guardian piece on the BNP

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:24 AM

"Young and well educated city dwellers are also over-represented amongst visitors to the BNP's homepage.

The proportion of the site's visitors that come from the middle classes is also increasing: 59pc are from the more affluent ABC1 social groups, and this figure is up from 50pc two years ago, Hitwise said.

Says it all really. "

I visited the BNP website, doesnt mean I will be voting for the racist tw*ts.

Says it all really.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 May 09 - 01:19 PM

And I visited the website...and I'm in the US and can't vote in either UK or EU elections. Statistics on the number of visits proves nothing other than - the number of visits.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: paula t
Date: 18 May 09 - 02:05 PM

Yes,
It's amazing that these people can attempt to use the number of visits as a "meaure of support".How statistics can be misleading eh?
It reminds me of a story my psychology lecturer told me:

"A group of scientists took a frog and made a loud noise behind it. They measured how far this made the frog jump.
They cut off one of its legs and made the same loud noise. They once again measured how far it jumped.
They repeated the process again, after removing its other leg. The frog didn't move.
They analysed the statistics they had collected.
Their conclusion was.....

If you remove a frog's legs, it goes deaf."

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:08 PM

Try putting "BNP violence" into Google. Very entertaining.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:44 PM

I hear you, Snail.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Amergin
Date: 19 May 09 - 05:01 AM

I see that the british media is always lying about the poor beleagured BNP....well that is according to their website...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:19 AM

I got a BNP flyer through the door today. I should have left the door open, and Benjamin my cross-border-collie could have greeted the deliverer...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: mandotim
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:38 AM

I'm dying to meet a BNP canvasser; I have a couple of terriers, one a feisty Jack Russell with finely developed political instincts...
Seriously, the correct tactic is to invite them in for a cup of tea and a chat, feigning interest in their party. Keep them there for a couple of hours if possible, discussing all aspects of their policies in great detail. Think of how many other doors they won't have time to knock on.
Tim

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 May 09 - 10:05 AM

tea, with a good dose of laxative......

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 19 May 09 - 11:40 AM

mandotim, the funniest sight in the world is a BNP canvasser in full flight down the street with three JRs biting at her heels...that'll learn'em to come knocking at my garden gate *LOL*

Netty, Shorty,and Cyril got extra treats that evening.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 19 May 09 - 02:01 PM

Another senior official in the BNP is a thug called Tony Lecomber.He is an aide to Griffin and is an individual with several serious convictions to his name .
He has a conviction gor conspiracy to cause explosions.A bomb he was carrying on his way to attack the office of a left wing party blew up and he was subsequently arrested.
A few years later he and a group of racist thugs seriously assaulted a Jewish teacher who was removing some racist obscenity from a London Underground wall.
And a few years after that he and others attacked a black man with broken bottles in a pub in a racist attack.
This character is a senior figure in the BNP and at its core the BNP is riddled and addled with such vicious creeps.
ifor.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 May 09 - 02:11 PM

I wonder why these "ex Labour" people, only concerned with corruption of course, seem to have only considered the BNP? No2EU would seem a far more congenial protest for a Labour voter to make. Then there are the Greens (I'll be voting for them), the Jury Team, involving the former jopurnalist and anti- sleaze campaigner Martin Bell, the Socialist Labour Party, and several others, and that's just in my area.

None of those parties is racist, and there are other non- racist parties on the right, so the decision to vote BNP is a clear and deliberate choice of racism.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 19 May 09 - 03:37 PM

"I wonder why these "ex Labour" people...."

I doubt Alan Meale ever was a member of the Labour Party, just another lie.

"The British National Party would probably make it into a parliament elected by proportional representation, too. It would shine a torch into the dirty little corner where the BNP defecate on our democracy, and that would be much more powerful than duffing them up in the street — which I'm also in favour of."

- Billy Bragg in an interview with The Guardian, 2004

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 09 - 05:41 PM

If a dog has tries to bite you or is aggressive - please tell the Police.

If you witness a dog owner allowing their dog to chase,bite or show aggression, please let the police know so that we can deal with it. Reports of this type are taken seriously. Please help the police to identify the owner ( even if they make threats as above) as this is an offence so they can talk to them. If you know details of such people, please report them as I have just done.

Local councils also can and do prosecute offenders ( even making threat of use of dog to attack) under the Control of Dogs Order (1992)


It is an offence for any dog owner to make the type of threat listed above under the Dangerous Dogs Act (1991. The police take serious the threat of owners allowing their pets to be dangerously out of control to be in a public place. They can and will can take action before their dog has bitten anybody. Therefore if a dog owner acts in such a way that someone thinks they will be attacked, an actual offence has been committed.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 May 09 - 06:57 PM

It is an offence for any dog owner to make the type of threat listed above under the Dangerous Dogs Act (1991)

a) No threats have been made in this thread. If you think I'm wrong, quote them.

b) There's nothing in the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 about owners making threats.

Other than that, spot on.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:33 PM

This is what appears on my screen Pip.

"I'm dying to meet a BNP canvasser; I have a couple of terriers, one a feisty Jack Russell with finely developed political instincts..."

"the funniest sight in the world is a BNP canvasser in full flight down the street with three JRs biting at her heels...that'll learn'em to come knocking at my garden gate *LOL*"

Try enlarging your screen.

---

Somebody asked me to clarify that this "Mark Cohen" is not the musician/pediatrician who posts from the United States. I thought that should be obvious, but I'm posting the clarification to be on the safe side.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 07:52 PM

I'm not as eloquent as most of you. I like to keep things brief:

FUCK THE BNP!

Rotten racist bastards.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:07 PM

Come on Peace, they don't go into isolated woodlands with firehoses looking bears Haha.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:24 PM

BNP membership listMembership backdated to 06. Note in correspondence file Mr Gary Amoroso 2 ...... or [e-mail] Upgrade to Family membership 14/2/07 Photographer ...
wikileaks.org.uk/leak/bnp-membership-list.txt - 977k - Cached - Similar pages

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:49 PM

Now Peace, that wasn't a very nice comment "I'm not as eloquent as most of you. I like to keep things brief:FUCK THE BNP! Rotten racist bastards. "

BNP Paribas has been in Canada since 1961, they're one of the largest foreign bank subsidiaries operating in Canada. Yes they called in a lot of loans recently including those of the rednecks out in the wilderness, but come on man, is that any way to talk about a respected bank ?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:51 PM

It's as nice as anyone will get from me regarding that Nazi trash.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:53 PM

Weren't they nationalized a while back, Mark? (The bank, not the assholes.)

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: pdq
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:54 PM

If this is the same (Dr.) Mark Cohen from Hawaii, he has not posted since 5 OCT 2007. Hope he feels welcome in his return..

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Mark Cohen
Date: 19 May 09 - 08:59 PM

Well Peace they seem pretty popular in the United Kingdom, my cousin over there says a lot of the young guys at his college back them. They are now in a lot more local government centers (councils) than this time ten years ago. What about the Canadian Heritage Alliance ?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 09:05 PM

No different than the British Nazi (aka National) Party. However, we don't vote for the cocksuckers.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: frogprince
Date: 19 May 09 - 09:11 PM

You build a railroad, nobody calls you "Herbie the railroad builder".
you build a skyscraper, nobody calls you "Herbie the builder of skyscrapers". But let a guy suck just one cock...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 19 May 09 - 09:16 PM

The fellow posting as Mark Cohen is one of the 'reasonable' apologists for the BNP. Fuckers are so intertwined they don't know who's shagging whom. They post pretending to be the epitome of gentleness and 'hey, let's talk'. Actually they are vicious bastards who separate themselves in name only from the violence they condone and promulgate.

I am sorry to see Dr Cohen's name used in this manner.

To guest, MC: kiss my ass, motherfucker.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 May 09 - 11:08 PM

Whoa, that doesn't sound like our Mark Cohen!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:40 AM

It is very sad that a known folkie is actually standing for election in one of the Festival towns as a BNP candidate.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:50 AM

Who's the folkie?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:46 AM

This is what appears on my screen Pip.

"I'm dying to meet a BNP canvasser; I have a couple of terriers, one a feisty Jack Russell with finely developed political instincts..."

Not a threat - two statements of fact with a semi-colon in betweeen.

"the funniest sight in the world is a BNP canvasser in full flight down the street with three JRs biting at her heels...that'll learn'em to come knocking at my garden gate *LOL*

Again, this says nothing about what the commenter would like to happen in future. Hence not a threat.

And in any case, the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says nothing about threats.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: mandotim
Date: 20 May 09 - 03:12 AM

Do I understand correctly Guest Mark Cohen, with what we suspect is a borrowed identity; you have reported my obviously lighthearted comments above to the police as constituting a material threat to an unknown BNP canvasser, who may or may not visit my house? Pip Radish is quite correct; in this case, two separate observations do not constitute any kind of threat. The clue to the lightheartedness is in the second statement; how many dogs do you know with finely developed political instincts?
As for the dogs, they both have advanced training certificates, and are under complete voice control at all times. When someone comes to my door, they bark. They have never bitten anyone, nor threatened to do so. Vermin are a different matter.
If you have reported the comments, I'll be delighted to answer any police enquiries. I suspect you haven't, and are simply lying like the rest of the BNP scum. If you did, I wonder how hard the police laughed when you put the phone down? Are you familiar with the offence of Wasting Police Time?
Tim

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:09 AM

Dangerous Dogs Act


But, hey, I suppose posting the Act assumes the BNP can read...

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:06 AM

British Mudcatters should be aware that the BNP are standing in the Euro-elections on June 4th. Euro-elections suffer from low voter turn out, and are based on a system of proportional representation. That is a dangerous combination. It can enable extremist parties, whose views are abhorrent to the vast majority of voters, to gain a foothold where they do not deserve one. If you do not want to see the anti-democratic views of the BNP represented in Europe, the choice is simple. Turn out on June 4th and vote for the party of your choice, and encourage everyone you know to do likewise.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 08:55 AM

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.
Albert Einstein

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:53 AM

I've never liked this system, I prefer first past the post with transferable votes, i.e. 1st 2nd 3rd ( as many choices as the voter wishes to transfer, which then arrives at a majority of votes cast for each seat

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:26 PM

I was actually bloody angry when I saw the BNP leaflet on our hall floor the other day. Especially when I spotted the Spitfire and the so-called doctor's so-called comments.

But Charlie Brooker's piece in the Guardian cheered me up - for instance "Extremist material of any kind always looks gaudy and cheap, like a bad pizza menu". Right on the button Charlie.

I'll just put the link up again to save scrolling up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/18/charlie-brooker-bnp-racism

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:42 PM

Please remember that Mudcat is supposed to be a place for civil discussion, even of controversial issues. I realize that the BNP is objectionable to most of us, but these discussions are a chance for us to make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it.

Name-calling and personal attacks do not add anything to the discussion. It also is not helpful to accuse people of "trolling." Please refrain from such conduct.

Thank you.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 20 May 09 - 03:37 PM

GUEST - Mark Cohen (or whatever your real name is), don't worry I wouldn't have allowed the dogs to actually bite, I wouldn't want to have to fork out the money for Netty, Shorty,and Cyril to get THEIR anti rabies injections, and notifying the police, feel free, one of my neighbours is a member of the force and witnessed the encounter, he laughed his face off. So, you know what, GUEST - Mark (or whatever your real name is) I believe I hear you mother calling you, so back in your pram, sunshine.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:56 PM

Sorry, Joe, but I don't think you're quite getting the nature of the BNP. Try looking here. I don't think there is much point in trying to "make contact with them and find out what they think and why they think it".

I understand your appeal for good conduct but this is not just a standard piece of British bickering. These are very nasty people indeed.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:08 PM

'Good conduct' is one thing but please don't suggest I should try to make contact the KKK and find out what they think and why they think it too.
I think I know all I really want to about those whose avowed purpose is white supremacy and who are best known for engaging in vitriolic rhetoric and committing violent acts.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:28 PM

Well said Joe and very fair of you may I add. The BNP is a legitimate political party. I just tend to ignore them as most do.

The critical word here is 'legitimate'. The BNP is legitimate on the basis that we have freedom of association in the UK; it is registered with the Electoral Commission, has certain registered officers and occasionally submits returns. That is what 'legitimate' means in this context. It makes no judgements about the legitimacy of the BNP's opinions - indeed, they are by definition subjective - and only about whether the association meets certain legal requirements.

There is an organisation called NAMBLA - that's the North American Man/Boy Love Association. Let us say, for the sake of argument, that NAMBLA form a UK political party. Certainly, there will be an amount of people who aren't interested in man/boy love themselves, but feel that it should be permitted. I'd say that the majority, though, are probably going to be interested in man/boy love. I would say, on the basis of potential harms and risk minimisation, it would be reasonable to bar members of the (putative) UK Man/Boy Love Party from - say - working with children.

There is, as we know, an organisation called Hizb ut Tahrir. On the same grounds, we would probably not allow members of that organisation from joining MI5.

Democracy comes from the Greek demos and kratein; translated those are people and strength. Democracy is a process, not an arrival point and has nothing to say about what is right and wrong.

The party is going from strength to strength I am glad to say.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Jeri
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:49 PM

Some people have a pretty high tolerance for racism and xenophobics. I suppose if they didn't, the poor abused souls would never get elected anywhere.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:57 PM

Joe,
There is a saying give someone a long enough rope, and they will hang themselves. This happened in the 1930s with the emergence of the Nazi Party. By 1945 they did 'hang themselves' - and after Nuremberg the tribunals helped the process.

But look at the human cost it took to get there. The millions who were slaughtered - on the battlefields, the blitz, the concentration camps......

We have to learn from the lessons of history, and be aware of what a group says publicly, and what their true aims are. To give the BNP any hint of legitimacy is dangerous, and diverts attentions from what they really are about.

Steve

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:11 PM

Since when has inciting racial hatered been 'legitimate'?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:32 PM

Joe, I can't believe you said that! You want to 'get to understand' the Aryan Brotherhood too?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:36 PM

Joe is correct in what he said. I found his comment fair and timely. If you took time to read their policies then you would soon change your views. Why why all this sily fear of the party ?

You keep calling people silly stupid names. If a bigot means wanting freedom of speech and being free to vote for whoever I want, then I am a Bigot !

If racism means wanting the police to do their jobs and stop crime, then I am a racist.

If being moronic means wanting my children to have a good education, free from politics and sexualisation, then I am a Moron !

If being a fascist means I want democracy at all levels, then I am a Fascist !

If you think your name calling will change my mind, you are wrong. Clearly I am made of sterner stuff than you and this is simply going to stiffen my resolve and make people like me fight even harder for what is right and true.

The slurs of the lefties above are transparent. People reading this will see we are not knuckle dragger's, but normal people fighting for our very survival as a race. People see just what a fog of lies and distortion you are saying about the BNP.

The BNP are the ONLY political party which looks out for the real British people.

They do not receive back-handers from big business, they do not receive any fair representation from the media, their fine and upstanding members are relentlessly persecuted - all for what? Just so that the establishment can continue to wreck our country and line their own pockets.

Do any of you honesty think the party will not gain seats in the June elections ? That should keep you quiet.

Please keep this debate civil.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:48 PM

Maybe Mail Reader isn't a satirist ...

... maybe just a real good one ...

You don't need to lie about the BNP, you can just go to youtube, or the links on this site, to the videos of Nick Griffin teaching David Dukes followers that if you want to talk about Racial Purity you have to call it identity, and how that is an example of how to sell nazi ideology without selling it out.

Then you can Check out the other video in which he denies the holocaust.


And those are just the most basic of a vast realm of evidence that they represent a fascist ideology.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:48 PM

It would be interesting if one of the mods with that capability would tell us if all of the "GUEST,XXX" posts come from the same place.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 09 - 06:51 PM

'The BNP are the ONLY political party which looks out for the real British people.'

The BNP constitution opposes any racial integration.
Articles in BNP journals condemn mixed-race relationships as "mongrelising the white race". (or as you prefer to call it 'the real British people.')


'The slurs of the lefties above are transparent. People reading this will see we are not knuckle dragger's, but normal people fighting for our very survival as a race. People see just what a fog of lies and distortion you are saying about the BNP.'

There is no need for 'slurs' or 'lies' the BNP is condemned as racists by their own leaders statements

The BNP may have got 'cleverer' but its real politics remain the same.

'Muslims in Britain have been the main target of the BNP in recent years, although Griffin has by no means abandoned his antisemitism.

Early in 2008 the BNP distributed a leaflet in the north west of England, where Griffin will head the BNP list in the European elections, which claimed Muslims were responsible for 95% of the heroin trade.
Four BNP activists, including a local councillor, were arrested in November 2008 on suspicion of publishing and distributing leaflets intended to stir up racial hatred.'

but 'evenhanded' in hatred too

I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades.
Orthodox opinion also once held that the Earth was flat … I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria
Nick Griffin 1998

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:05 PM

Emma B, please tell me how many seats the party are likely to lose in the June council elections ?

Come on, put it here so we both can reflect on it in a few weeks time.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:09 PM

Emma above you said "Muslims in Britain have been the main target of the BNP in recent years" how ? tube stations or public bus bombings ? I think you may have got your facts mixed up.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:10 PM

""They do not receive back-handers from big business, they do not receive any fair representation from the media, their fine and upstanding members are relentlessly persecuted - all for what?""


No, they don't get any back-handers from big business. They're pretty handy at dishing out a few back-handers to those who disagree with their views, particularly those with a different skin tone, which is why they are as you put it "relentlessly persecuted".

Of course, what you call relentless persecution, others see as pointing out their criminal records, and activities.

Don T.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:12 PM

I do not respond to taunts - only the 'distortions of the truth' (there I didn't call you a l***) you are detirmined to put out here

If you have the balls to engage in discussion - post under your own name!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:15 PM

I guess from your comment you are white...

(1) Anyone can say what the disaffected want to hear. What makes a difference are the ACTIONS taken by those in power.

(2)I do not challenge the right for anyone to vote who they want for, only to vote for the right reasons. As I said in my earlier post, if one wants to vote because they agree with the BNPs neo-nazi standpoint, that is their prerogative, but should only do so if that is what they really support.

(3)When the BNP talk about crime, they place attention on crimes carried out by black people, but have little to say about crimes carried out by white skinhead thugs. Policing has to be even handed.

(4) All children should have a good education, and that has to include tolerance of people who are different to themselves so that a culture of prejudice doesn't escalate.

(5) Fascism is about achieving power by fear and deception as oppose to winning the hearts and minds of the electorate. (se my point 1).

(6) I make no secret of being a socialist, I am employed by a worker co-operative and I work with organisations that advocate on behalf of the most disadvantaged, not by turning individuals against each other but campaigning for fairer and more equitable societies.

(7) What is the cut off date before and after British people are real. IF you want to go to extreme, join Plaid Cwmru, its arguable that the Welsh are more British than the English have been for over 1,000 years. If by real British- you mean the right skin colour then you have just supported everyones argument against the BNP.

(8) I wonder why big businesses don't want to be seen to be associated with the BNP. As for media representation, the BBC broadcasted an excellent undercover expose of what the BNP is about.

(7) Toby Lecomber and John Tyndal fine upstanding gentlemen???? Hmm.. by what definition?

(8)It is through fear of ignorance of some voters, and a low turnout in the June elections that could get the BNP more seats than they deserve

(9) apart from my quip about laxative in cups of tea, I don't think I have said anything uncivil.

But between now and the June elections I am doing everything in my power to campaign against the BNP and what they stand for,

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:21 PM

I simply can't believe anyone in this day and age thinks that skin colour or country of origin MATTERS at all. Blood is red....and if we weren't all the SAME race, we couldn't share blood transufions....DMR, I truly HOPE that someday you need a blood transfusion and the ONLY blood available is from a person of colour!

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:32 PM

Emma, would you please give your predictions for the June elections. I will be glad to.

Do you think people will reject the party ? do you think they will lose seats ?

Will you accept the election results in June or stamp your feet ?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:39 PM

See my point 8. The BNP will probably gain seats, not because voters support what the BNP is about, but because they feel disaffected by mainstream politics. - and the fact that the BNP don't have the guts to publicly state their real point of view (see their actions,... not their propaganda)

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:46 PM

And no... I will not accepted neo-naziism, even if people do vote for it, for the same reason that among other countries (including India, Nepal)as well as Britain fought against it in WW2, and for the same reason why the Civil Rights movement opposed bigotry and separatism in the 60s, and for the same reason that most of the world deplored Apartheid during the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:48 PM

Normally I'm inclined to sceptical about voting - as the old sayings go, "Whoever you vote for, the Government always gets in" and "If voting really changed anything, they'd abolish it" - but in this particular European election I think the danger of the BNP getting in means that abstaining or spoiling a vote is a luxury too far.

The two-fold danger is that, with most people feeling really pissed off about all the big parties, large numbers are just going to stay home - and that at the same time there will be a fair number who are taken in by the lie that the BNP is not in reality a British Nazi Party and who cast a protest vote their way.

The combination of a greatly reduced vote overall, and a rise in the BNP vote could mean that they get candidates elected, and this means sizeable financial resources being paid to them, which they will help them build a more dangerous organisation.

So the important thing this time is to vote, no matter for whom (no shortage of alternatives), so long as it's not the BNP.

Here's a link explaining how the election process works for the European elections European Parliament elections in England, Scotland and Wales. It's worth reading it, because it's not at all like any other elections.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 07:55 PM

Unfortunately these sort of dispicable comments Joe Offer refers to is what can be expected as it becomes ever clearer that BNP are winning hearts and minds all over the Country,expect a lot more of it too as polling day gets ever closer,the opposition here are getting more and more worried.

I think I have made valid points, I won't be responding to any provocation here. I know they are decent people, and I know that my views are supported by the vast majority of the British public and the Lord Jesus Christ himself. The other main stream parties are running scared for they now know the BNP have broken the political mould and are on the up and are being listened to by the ordinary people, they are saying what they want to hear. I do hope they keep up the pressure on this sad sad government.

God bless you all and good night.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 09 - 08:12 PM

It also is not helpful to accuse people of "trolling."

Trolls are people who try to stir things up for the sake of it, by saying things they know will do that, which they very well may not actually believe. It's mischievous and destructive, especially when it is cruel, which it very often is.

People who are genuinely trying to promote racist ideologies, and racist parties are not trolls. Unfortunately.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:09 PM

Er - Daily Mail Reader - "survival as a race"?

Now just what meaning that you can try to put on that is not racist?

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:13 PM

RACE means homo sapiens....no matter what spin you put on it. HUMAN.....

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:14 PM

"GUEST,Daily Mail reader

Please keep this debate civil."

OK. Kindly go fuck yourself.

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 09 - 09:27 PM

Joe, I don't often disagree with you, but reasoning with the BNP is like reasoning with the KKK. Can't be done. They are a disease, and I have no, repeat, NO common ground with them. Nor will I ever want any.

This post IS respectfully submitted.

The one prior to this: the asshole from the BNP posing as Mark is much like the Daily Mail reader--coming across as a nice guy. BULLSHIT! Reason with people like this? HOW? Listen to them? WHY?

Read their associations: David Duke, Stormfront, KKK . . . . I have NO doubt they are also aligned with the CHP in Canada and the Aryan Nations, et.al. NO. I will NOT reason or enter into discourse with people like that. If management decision is that I have to be NICE to these motherfuckers, ban me. If management decision is that I should go to other threads and not post to this kind, ban me.

One of the reasons this trash left before (a few years back) is because my posts were so damned rude. Consistently rude. And they will continue to be with these folks. I don't want their supporters figuring this is a nice comfortable place to attract new recruits. Mudcat is NOT their forum. Maybe it ain't mine, either. I'll abide by your decision.

BM

Subject: RE: English Fair Fund is BNP Front
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:46 AM

Well, Daily Mail Reader is misinterpreting what I said, and so are several Mudcatters who ought to know better. I'm certainly not advocating tolerance of the BNP. I abhor what they stand for. I had a very interesting encounter with a BNP type when Micca and I were riding a bus in London. Since the drunk BNP guy and I had the lightest skin of anyone on the bus, he came looking to me for sympathy as he loudly condemned all the "foreigners" on the bus. I responded, "I am not a citizen of your country, sir; and I certainly don't agree with you."

Maybe I should have followed the enlightened example of many of you and called him asshole and motherfucker, but I really don't think that would have done much good. Logic and a bit of wit seem to work much better.

One thing about these BNP people - they vote. Every one of them shows up at the polls, in far higher percentages than the rest of us. Calling them "asshole" just inspires their self-righteousness and makes them feel like martyrs for their cause. What good does that do? But if you discuss with them rationally and respectfully, you might just win one or two of them over.

So, I ask again - stay calm, use logic, and remain civil.


Thank you.

-Joe Offer-

---

I don't want this BNP thing to get out of control again, so I'm going to limit the discussion to one BNP thread at a time. Since there is another BNP thread (click) active, I'm going to ask you to continue this discussion there.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-