There are no choirs

Subject: There are no choirs
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 08:05 PM

One person singing alone is clearly not a choir. Two people are a duo, three are a trio - not enough to call it a choir.

If n people singing together are not enough to call it a choir, then surely adding one more person is not going to make it a choir.

Therefore, by The Principle of Mathematical Induction, choirs do not exist.

Discussion is welcome.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 08:56 PM

Those folks at the Mormon Tabernacle are in some serious trouble, imo.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs (In-choir-eeze )
From: Severn
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 08:57 PM

Re: Choir-ments:

Then how many core members does it take to make up a chorus?

How many do you have to round up to make it OK for a chorale?

How many does it take to reefer to you as a Coral Group?

Subject: RE: There are no chores
From: Severn
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:04 PM

They'll just keep increasing their numbers exponentially, Bruce, 'til they legitimise themselves somehow.

The Mormon Tabernacle Mob doesn't have the same ring to it, though.....

Or the More Men Tabernacle Male Chorus, either.....

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:07 PM

Lotsa guys wot sings together?

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:19 PM

This fallacy is sometimes called Plato's Beard. (It has been known, according to Prof. Quine, to dull the edge of Occam's Razor.) If one hair on the chin does not make a beard, and one hair more or less cannot make the difference between a beard & no beard, then no-one has a beard.

Subject: RE: There are no ink wires
From: Severn
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 09:26 PM

It's that same damn Principle Of Mathematical Induction that had kept me out of the Hall Of Fame for, lo, these long years. Maybe someday, the Veteran's Comittee will give me a break when I'm high tenured. All in the chorus of time, I guess......








Ahhhhhhh, but I'm just preaching to the large aggregation of songsters here......

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Darowyn
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 09:58 AM

Plato grew up without the benefit of computers and binary arithmetic.
In the light of modern knowledge, Boolean Logic and such, we can see that:-
If there are only two states, bearded and not bearded, then if there is one hair, then Plato cannot be 'not bearded- therefore he has a beard.
If there are no singers, there is no choir, and if choirs either exist or they do not, then one singer is a choir.
Thus one hair is a beard and one singer is a choir.
Or maybe we should examine other philosophical approaches.
Wittgenstein says that "The Limits of my language are the limits of my world".
We have a solo singer, a duet etc. With a decent knowledge of Latin numbers it would be possible to neologise a word like duodecatet- but the point is that we don't!
By this means, and by analogy with my little grandson, who counts "One, Two, Three, Lots", eight singers is an Octet, Nine is a choir.
To go to Existentialism, a Sartrean view might be "Un choeur, c'est autrui, quand ils chantent."

And that is with no reference to Uncertainty and the collapse of potential states of existence as unknown states come under observation, alternate universes etc.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 11:03 AM

Good to see Sev back on form... I think...

I don't hold any truck with this maths stuff... I was a head chorister and I've got the badge to prove it!

LTS

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 11:13 AM

There was once a group called Roger the Chorister, comprised of an unknown number of Mudcatters and potentially others. Don't know how many members it had. Does that make them a choir by association with the chorister rogering?

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Severn
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 11:23 AM

It might even make them a family some day.

If you slipped them a tenner, they'd perform their act for cheap, I've heard.....

I used to remember all the names of The Vienna Boys Choir, but now it's hard to keep the cast straight.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Tootler
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM

Somehow the initial proposition has a ring of

All elephants are grey
This donkey is grey
Therefore this donkey is an elephant

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 01:04 PM

Snark... Severn!

My neighbours are going to wonder why I am hooting and guffawing.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM

Simples, just set parameters for number in choir. Then minus or plus one makes a difference if and only if n is less than the lower parameter. Some judgements ( beard or bum fluff,) include non-numerical parameters, and depend on paradigm case apllications.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 02:46 PM

For nine or ten years, I sang with a Men's Chorus. We sang 95% of the songs, learning them by ear with nary a page of sheet music in sight. Then insidiously, the Chorus became a Choir. We still sing the same way, and the arrangements haven't changed. We still rarely sing from sheet music and the arrangements evolve over time not being hamstrung by sheets of paper. I still think we're a Chorus.
None of this has anything to do with numbers. Except maybe musical numbers.

There isn't a mathemetician in the group.

Jerry

Subject: RE: There are no choirs (Parameter de Fence)
From: Severn
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 03:21 PM

To our "Caught-In-Math-er":

Take our hands, Tug. We're all strangers in paradigms.

But thanks for putting in your twenty cents worth.

My question is, what with Plato's Beard, yer faddah's moustache, Ziegfield's Follicles and all that, if there are no beards or even heads of hair, I can see how there are no barbershop choirs, but why are there even quartets, (involving "Shave & a Haircut" and whatever that other bit was)?.....

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:24 PM

Ah, but the induction principle works in reverse, too. If at least one person has a beard, and removing one hair cannot make him NOT have a beard, then everyone has a beard.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Tangledwood
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

One note does not constitute a tune, neither do two or three. Adding another one doesn't do it. Therefore there is no music, so it follows that a choir serves no purpose.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Shoyu
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 06:20 PM

What about The Sixteen? Have they done the required (I REFUSE to fall for the pun!) algebraic calculations?

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Joe_F
Date: 26 Jul 09 - 08:16 PM

'Wittgenstein says that "The Limits of my language are the limits of my world".'

In other words, language is even harder not to take for granted than life.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 02:33 AM

Wittgenstein? Twittgenstein! I'll remain Jung at heart, thank you very much!

(Besides, according to Monty Python, he was a beery swine who was just as schlossed as Schlagel).

LTS

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 01:30 AM

You say that like it's a BAD thing . . . .

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:45 AM

Apparently Wittgenstein once got thumped in a fish and chip shop in Manchester. Not relevant to the discussion, but I thought I'd share...

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:49 AM

That Karl Popper, he could really bear a grudge...

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:02 AM

That's what Poker does for you.

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:05 AM

Oh how I wish that were true!!!

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:29 AM

My sources now tell me it was Harold Garfinkel...

Subject: RE: There are no choirs
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:40 AM

Wittgenstein was a ass. But what's one cheek more or less?


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