Liverpool Folk Club 1970

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:53 AM

Sad to hear about Pete McGovern. Good to know that Tony Murphy is still about. I think he wrote "The Orange and the Green" which the spinners recorded.
The club I recall in Bold st was at the Odd Spot and was run by a group called Sink Folk who guested at the Wyndham in Bootle on a couple of occasions.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:09 AM

Just back from a few days in mid-Wales and pleased to see this is still going strong. Tony Murphy, I think, still lives out Huyton way. I used to go to a club at the Flying Picket in Hardman Street a few years back and Tony was a somewhat vocal resident in all senses of the word.
Things had a left wing bias, Dave Cox was the Organiser, they had a Bank account with my old employer which went the way of all things! -blowed if I can remember the club's name. The People's Folk Club? Summat like that.
There was an annual one-day Festival that they organised and I MC'd at - that went fine for a year or two. Recall seeing Janet Russell and Jim Woodland and Roy Bailey on the bill - well, you would, wouldn't you!?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

Pete McGovern died 1 April 2006. Not heard of Tony for many years now.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:44 PM

The news I have on Brian Jacques is that he is a very famous childrens author. I work in education and often come upon his name he has written a series of books about animals and is really big in America. The lady he used to sing with is called Liz and she had a strong voice, they used to sing a song called the evacuee.

In February 1971 the club dates in local folk were as follows:-
The Bothy-Blundell Arms, Southport
Pez Esparda-Temple st,Liverpool
Pinehurst-Townend Lane
Powder Keg-Nelson Hotel, Neston
Littlefolk-Old Parkonians Rugby club, Birkenhead
Argonaut Folk Club- Grange Rd West, Birkenhead
Calico-Park Hotel, Wigan
J & B,s-Domestic Mission, Mill St, Liverpool
Liverpool Folk Club-Mitre, Dale Street
Hope and Anchor- Prescott
County Folk- Ship Inn, Haskayne
Rhonas club-New Ferry
Atlantic House, Hardman Street, Liverpool
Hainaut- Mons Hotel, Queens Drive, Bootle.
Cor! There are more in the following month. The articles, reviews and news on all the different groups and clubs really brings memories back. Oh, and Lenny Cruckshank and Joe Rooney ran a club at The Albany on Smithdown Rd, called Black and Tan. It was 20p to get in.

I,m sorry I don,t know what happened to Tony Murphy or Pete MaCovern but I,d like to know

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 09:23 AM

While we're asking about if people are still about. What about Tony Murphy. Can anyone enlighten me?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 07:28 AM

Brigantine - yes that was the name of the group. I remember the guy he sang with was our insurance man who collected every week. Name was either Pete or Tony Hyams. My Brother Mike used to give him Guitar lessons. Some of you may remember Mike who died earlier this year. He was a frequenter of the Everyman and tried to pass himself off as an Irish Gypsy (with some success) He was an exceptional guitar player and in better times made a name as a flamenco player.
Anyway, back to the thread- Is Pete McGovern still about? I have found several references to him on a number of web sites. He was the first person I heard singing The hole in the elephant's bottom which I pinched and still sing down here in Hampshire.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 06:02 AM

Hi Pete,
Didn't he have a group called 'Brigantine'?
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Pete Rimmer
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:21 AM

The Liverpool Fishermens Album sells for big money now .

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

wasn't Brian Jacques in a group called the Fishermen , or Liverpool Fishermen? From memory, a sort of Liverpool Dubliners - lively, raucous singing group? A bit like The Beggarmen, who I came across when I moved to Manchester, except the Beggarmen were all Irish, or Irish second generation.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 11:02 AM

banjoman: Visit the Amazon.co.uk site and type in "Brian Jacques".

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:59 AM

What became of Brian Jaques who used to sing with a guy called Pete Hyams who I knew and a girl called ??
I know he wrote a couple of books but have not heard of him for years.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:06 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:05 AM

I remember seeing Barbera Dixon at the Mitre in Dale st. Somewhere we still have a tape of that night. I particularly recall her singing an Alan Taylor song "The morning lies heavy". At that time I think she was a close friend of Willy Russel and sang occasionaly at the Top Lock Club in Runcorn which was run by (I think) The Steam Whistle Collection"

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 05:43 AM

Talk about 'All our yesterdays',
Barbara, thanks for the Coronation reminder, I was in charge of the bookings for about 12 mths.
Clive, I remember that night with Barbara Dickson well. I think we went mob handed from the Bothy. I've got a cassette somewhere I recorded that night. Barbara Dickson was sat across the table from me & I got Pete Rimmer singing 'Cat on an old tin roof' with Barbara putting in some great hamonies.
I also remember seeing Mke Harding at the Mons, he had this little concertina which he was fooling around with by holding it up to his nose and letting it flop in an approximation of a rude appendige. He asked 'What's that'? and Tony Wilson let fly with F*** nose. The place was in uproar & Mike cracked up.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:55 PM

well Barbara, I looked it up ... Mike Harding was the guest ... I told you i remembered the room being quite full!
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 04:52 PM

I recall going to see Barbara Dickson in maybe 1973? at Melling Folk Club at the Horse And Jockey. Monday night I think. No idea who ran it or how long it lasted. Barbara was on a roll at that time but I remember thinking "now why don't they have a stage?" She just sang on carpet level from a bay window area and I thought she deserved better!!!!!! Well she's sure had her fair share of stages since!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:30 PM

Yes John's party was just wonderfull.
However back to the past. Derek we went to the Brunswick on 6th January 1974.

Have I mentioned the Mons folk club ? it was run by the Folkways.

Then there was the Coronation in Southport on Fridays. Also the Punch Bowl in Sefton on Wednesdays.
In 1977 we used to go to The Belvedere on Tuesdays and the Coyne brothers used to go there alot.

Then in November 1976 the start of the Liverpool folk club in Gregsons Well on Thursdays. The residents were John Howson, Me, Frank Macoll, Gron Humphreys, Seoda Ceol ( spelling probably wrong), and Tony Gibbons too I think. Isn't that were FOM ( Folk on Merseyside started ?). We used to organise Saturday afternoon concerts and pic nics at places like Croxteth Hall and the Bluecoat Chambers.

Another thing what about those magazines we used to buy called Local Folk? I have them going back to November 1971. They were published by Lew Baxter and Roy Webster, and were full of interesting articles and reviews as well as club news and whats on.

Cor! this could be just the beginning!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:53 AM

Derek,
Ahah, he said, whipping off his false moustache, 'tis I!
I was only following this thread to see what became of me.
John

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:30 AM

Can anyone remember the name of the "Folk Club." along Breck Road in Wallasey by the Bowling Greens, I saw Nic Jones there many years ago and he was such a God dam revelation!! or the name of the club that was half way up Grove Road also in Wallasey which was held on Sunday nights, saw many legends there I.E. Vin Garbutt,Derek Brimstone,Tom and Smiley (I think),Pete Stanley and Wizz Jones to name a few.Also who ran it, I'm sure it was the "Wreckers" before they moved.
As Aye,
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:01 PM

BigJ - is that John Kaneen? Pity you weren't able to make - was hoping to catch up!
another time.
Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 11:26 AM

Still no news as to Lennie Cruickshank - would like to find out what he is up to. Any takers??

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:06 AM

I'm sorry, too, that I couldn't make it, but £73.40 for a day trip to Liverpool was more than I could manage at the moment(well, I thought it was daylight robbery actually!). Glad you had a good time.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:43 AM

Delighted to hear that a great bash was had by all. Once again John, sorry we couldnt make it. And you're right of course, after Dublin, Liverpool is the friendliest city. But, I would say that wouldnt I!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:56 PM

I just wanted to say what a fantastic time I had with you all last night. Mucho love to Mr J Howson and Katie for letting us share his birthday, for bringing everyone together, and for letting hangers-on such as myself enjoy the lovely music and legacy shared by you all!!!


I even got my piccie taken with Sinbad from Brookie in the Everyman Bar. Liverpool is the friendliest city I have EVER visited - best of luck to all who sail in her!

Jx

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:29 PM

I recall seeing Fairport at the Top Rank suite in St. Johns about the time of the 'Rosie album.' "Sloth" went on forever!!!! Good gig though.
The Penny Farthing was a Higsons new-build pub which had flashing neon spokes on the bike's large wheel, which formed the sign. Next to Royal Court - it's still there but its erm, charm has faded somewhat!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:06 PM

A gang of us ran the Pennyfarthing FC in Ellesmere Port 69 to 72. $0 aniversary coming up.

But I remember a pub called the Pennyfarthing in Liverpool. I seem to remember it hard a large bronze Pennyfarthing outside

L in P

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:52 PM

I think it was in The Leesiders in Birkinhead that I heard The Watersons for the first time. Late 1965 I would guess. Anyone else able to confirm that?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: danensis
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:00 PM

Just been reading a thread on YoLiverpool about St John's Centre, where it mentions The Star & Garter, Top Rank Suite (later Romeo & Juliets and Rotters), Penny Farthing, Quinns (formerly the Sportsman), Cunarder, Moonstone (later Milo's) and St. Johns Tavern. I think the folk club I went to might have been in the Penny Farthing, the name seems to ring a bell (but then the Sportsman does as well).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 01:33 PM

"I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair......."

That would more than likely be Lol Rowbottom and his group was called "the Wallasey Wreckers."
As Aye
Phil.

Thanks Phil, Lol does ring a bell I seem to remember he was pretty funny also

Les in Peru

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 09:57 AM

refresh!!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 09:15 AM

I recall the Dolphin Canning Place'glass-and-steel' horror as being a Thursday night with Bernie Davis' involvement, blow-up seagull et al. That land is now part of the revamped ghastly glass-and-steel horror called Liverpool One.
The modern hotel housed the "2+1" Club which Barbara refers to in a previous post.
The Poly's 'Commerce Bar' is the place you're thinking of on Tithebarn Street - happy nights with Silly Wizard there, when they were part of the Liverpool scene. I remember a stage show of some sort at the Everyman which involved Johnny Cunningham being winched up to the flyspace by his feet, still playing his fiddle! John was literally up for anything those days - good company, always ready for a chat and a beer. He, and the band are much-missed and if anyone deserves a boxed it's them - tied up in the (sh-hh, don't mention it) saga of Celtic Music I suppose?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,danensis
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 08:26 AM

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. My girlfriend Sue (later my wife) moved to Liverpool in 1971 but as I was working in Northampton I had to hitch to Liverpool on a Friday evening - hopefully in time to get to Atlantic House.

Ww also used to go to the Dolphin which was on a Sunday night, but I had to leave early to catch the last train darn sarf. If there was a particularly good act on I would stay until the end and catch the milk train in the morning.

Sue was in a group with a chap who was a technician at the art college, but I never got to see them perform, as they only seemed to have gigs during the week.

I also remember a Polytechnic club somewhere off Tithebarn street, the entrance was across a bomb site and in through a fire exit!

I don't know if it was the Dolphin that kept moving about, but I remember a club in a fairly modern hotel just opposite Lime Street station, and another in the horrible glass and steel edifice in Canning Place.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:57 AM

Tunesmith, that club was called 'The Wheelhouse' and the hall was in Timms Lane - I think the church was/is St.Anne's. The Travelling People were the Resis and I saw the Johnstons there in I guess, 1970/1. When I launched my music 'career' in an early '60s Beat group (no bands then! - that was Glenn Miller) we HAD to repeat our material - simply didn't know enough songs. No-one minded!

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:34 AM

I first time I heard "The Streets of London", it was performed by The Foggy Duo at The Travelling People's folk club in a church hall in Freshfield ( 1969?). I was so taken with the song, that I asked the duo if they could repeat the song in their second set. They refused, saying that it wouldn't be fair to the audience to repeat a number! Very strange, I thought.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 09:27 AM

Scouse, The Wallaseyish group was actually a quartet and they were just called the Wreckers. Their club used to mee on a Wednesday night in the Wellington pub in Liscard.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: scouse
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 04:58 AM

"I remember another Wallasey-ish group, three blokes, but have no memory of what they were called - good bit of harmony singing and quite funny. Seem to remember a big bloke with red hair......."

That would more than likely be Lol Rowbottom and his group was called "the Wallasey Wreckers."
As Aye
Phil.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:45 PM

Barbara - yes, the Crewe club was at The Brunswick. Give me the date, I'll tell you the guest!
The Travelling people - wasn't their club more towards Hightown or Formby, rather than Crosby, or perhaps they moved into Crosby after I'd moved?
Re Davy Lowston - there's no indication in the sleeve notes of the Byker Hill LP of where he learnt it.

Derek

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: LesB
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

I remember going to Ray's dance club in Litherland regularly, I think The Acme started up around that time as a scratch band for the dance club. Funnily enough I was chewing the fat about those days with Mike Lindon at Whitby a couple fo weeks ago.
Barbara sorry I didn't get much time for a chat at Whitby, always passing in opposite directions.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 05:00 PM

Here's a "blue clicky" link to the Youtube video.

Tony Gibbons at Bothy Youtube

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:32 PM

It's a pity there isn't the facility to post photos here. I've trawled through Youtube but can't find many Liverpool related video clips. Someone out there please download some Liverpool historical video folk stuff to Youtube. Btw, there are some clips of Shay Black on Youtube. Talking of Shay, I remember going to some social gathering at Shay's place (when he lived in a ground floor flat in a big house which backed on to Princes Park ). Here is a recent Youtube clip of Tony Gibbons and Phil Hare at the Bothy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6Ru8-ePpc

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 04:06 PM

Barbara, I have a recording of that Jack Ketch Band bash - well at least the 'punk' section of the show when, amongst others, we did revved up versions of Dido Bendigo,(featured a Mick Rimmer bass solo which was a straight steal from Black Sabbath's 'Black Night') and Jolly Waggoners. People walked out in disgust if you remember?
Mick Rimmer's Dad recorded us from the side of the stage. The venue was Kingston House (The Mission To Seamen) at the bottom of James Street. Somewhere I've still got the ripped T-shirt on which I'd daubed "Stab Poodles."
What were we thinking?
The rest of the night was straight English country dance music!!!! - and the world would say, the better for it!!!!!!
PS - bring the photo on Saturday (he said cryptically)

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Barbara Snape
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:45 PM

Oh I am loving this! I'm now up to 1975 in my old diary search.
We used to go to The Travellin Peoples club in Crosby on a Friday, then to Brians flat afterwards to eat scones ( we used to hide them in our guitar cases when he wasn't looking, cos they weren't very good). Oily Joes was Nellie's new pub when she left the Customs house in November 73. We went to the Mons folk club sometimes it was run by the Folkways. John and I visited The Brunswick in Crewe in 74, was that Derek's club ? I also have mention of the 2 plus 1 Centre club which was on Sundays and the Clubship Landfall on Saturdays. In 1975 The Spinners moved to The Triton on Paradise Street, and it was never the same.
Can someone tell me if it's true that when Paddy Doody got back from New Zealand he gave the song Davy Lowston to Martin Carthy or did I dream that ?
Also around this time there was a session at the Cleveland on Thursdays Stan Francis had something to do with that. Not forgetting the Crack on Wednesdays Silly Wizzard often came when they lived in Liverpool. The lovely Martin Dunn moved to Liverpool from Northumberland around this time. He now lives near Bacup and is a keen Nutter.
I also have some old photos including one of The Jack Ketch Band with the Ketchelettes at a Christmas do 1977 (I think).

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 06:55 AM

Joce - I think thats the right Ken Adams and I think you were at our wedding reception. I remember Ray Cope well as I worked for the AA at the time and his VW camper broke down in Runcorn and we had to tow him back to Liverpool as he was due to call at a ceilidh that evening.
What clubs are there still in the Liverpool area as we may be around there later this year. We know about the Bothy of course. We also went to a club at the Sawn in Aughton some years ago and also the Ship at Haskayne. Either still going.
Someone has just told me that the Swan closed down and is now a restauraunt?

Keep the memories comming
Pete

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Cliver Pownceby
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 03:50 AM

That's right - Glyn Roberts it was, lived in Ainsdale. Died, I think I'm right in saying, some years ago, though I'd like to be proved wrong. On another note, any memories of the Dance Club that Ray Cope ran at the Litherland Hotel for many years as a kind of alternative to the EFDSS ventures?

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: terrier
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

Glyn I think was probably accordeonist Glyn Roberts.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,joyce Jennings nee Bennion
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:21 AM

The Acme cheildh band had Mike Lindon playing accordian and his brother Pat playing banjo and a guy called Glyn.I think That I may have been at that wedding with my sister.
I remember Ken Adams he used to play his zip on his anorak and close his eyes and transcend onto a different plane.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: banjoman
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 07:17 AM

The Cattle Market in Precott Rd ? I was involved with Old Rope when they moved the Ale House Club there. Maggie & I also held our wedding reception there in 1972 with the Acme? ceilidh band providing the music. Does anyone remember Ken Adams who was the "Original" Air Guitarist always looking for a floor spot and provided lots of laughs.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 03:42 AM

I think I arrived in Liverpool in early 1965. I can date it because it was the first time Liverpool F.C. won the F.A. Cup. I remember the huge parade down Lime Street in the open topped bus. For me the Washhouse was absolutely wonderful, because of the quality of the floor singers. Tony Murphy singing "We're Harriers, We're Harriers, we dont like people getting in our way", numerous contrubutions from John Kaneen, and a lad called John Whitehead who sang with a guitar. We formed a "group", John Whitehead, Glenys Owens and myself and did some gigs around Cheshire, including the club at Winsford, and had to run to get the last train back to Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 05:12 PM

I can also tell you that the very first Guest booked at the Liverpool Bothy (before Southport was colonised) was Cyril Tawney - a fact he never forgot and I'd like to think was rather proud of, 'cos I've got a letter he sent us years later reminding us of the fact! His gig was 8th February 1965 and the venue was the 'Cattle Market,' - a Walkers pub in Prescot Road with even the publicity proudly advertising its being near Stanley Abbatoir!
Again, there's a copy of the flyer on our website. Tony's name had been missed off by the printer and had to be added on with biro! The club's very first night had been 23rd November 1964, so I guess they had to save up to pay Cyril his £5!
Quite apart from the Resident Singers, you'll find detailed "Resident Guests" - Hilary and Joan. A odd concept. What was all that about?

Anyway after the Southport branch had been opened, in late April '65 firstly at the 'Railway Hotel' on Chapel Street - running there for 6 weeks until the huge crowds demanding entrance forced a move to the larger 'Blundell Arms' in Birkdale, both branches ran concurrently until mid-1966. Robin Dransfield was the final Liverpool Club guest on 13th July before the pressures of running both outlets meant something had to go. With so many competing Liverpool clubs and just the one operating in Southport, it was decided to concentrate on the newcomer.
We stayed at the Blundell until the end of 2003. Godfrey Boardman's Membership books from those early days reveal in excess of 800 members per annum (quite apart from any visitors) and of course you had to be queueing outside really early (pubs only opened on Sundays at 7PM back then) to stand any chance of getting in. Heady days indeed.

Subject: RE: Liverpool Folk Club 1970
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:06 PM

The wonders of the internet and Clive Pownceby's archives! MacColl and Seeger at the Bothy 14 June 1970 - the night that England lost to West Germany in the final of the world cup in Mexico!
Derek