 sj |
||
|
||
subversion
|
|
|
Subject: subversion From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 16 Jul 99 - 03:37 AM Is this forum being taken over by Republican sympathisers? |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: SeanM Date: 16 Jul 99 - 04:09 AM Well, I've always kinda sympathized with Dan Quayle... kinda hard not to feel bad for the mentally disadvantaged - Besides, he keeps political cartoonists rolling in easy ideas! M |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: katlaughing Date: 16 Jul 99 - 04:16 AM Dear Dai, A couple of months ago I would have definitely said YES! But, now, I think & hope there is some balance, again. How anyone could support anyone whose main goal is to outraise anybody else in campaign funds, to the tune of over 35 million, in a blatant attempt to steamroll their way into the Presidency is beyond me. katlaughing&liberallyspreadinglitter |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Jul 99 - 04:37 AM I'll agree with that, Kat - vote for NOBODY!!! yeah, I guess we did have a bit of an infestation of Republicans a while back, but we scared both of 'em away. (grin) -Joe Offer, Social Democrat who dislikes Clinton- |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: katlaughing Date: 16 Jul 99 - 04:45 AM Ah, Joe, what in the "haitch" are you doing up this time of night!??? And, oh, darlin', we always knew you were "Social", like a butterfly!**Big Grin** The only problem I have with voting for nobody is then somebody of a really distasteful ilk will win anyway and that's more than I can stomach. kat |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: McMusic Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:38 AM Republicans! Those pinko(e)s! |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Wolfgang Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:50 AM are you sure you are talking about the same bunch of people? "Republicans" means something very different in USA and in Ireland. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: alison Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:52 AM I think he meant Republican as in IRA sympathisers. It was posted at the same time as the "armalite thread" comment. slainte alison |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:30 AM Alison's right, but ask yourself who gives money to NorAid... |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: hank Date: 16 Jul 99 - 08:36 AM I don't live in Ireland. (either part) The only sure thing I know about that conflict is nobody on this continant is told the truth, we are told a bastardization of the truth that skips many critical issues that would change the way people here look at it. And mean while my babies are safe in their home |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Barbara Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:09 AM Interestin'. I heard Dai to mean Irish Republican Army (IRA) and I thought the first US response was being funny. HOwever I'm starting to feel ashamed that we don't know about other Republicans, who are very different from our George Bush Jr and Dan Quayle folks. And Dai is also right that a lot of the financial support for the IRA comes from the US where ex-pat Irishmen, with romantic ideas about the IRA have tupperware parties to raise money to send them guns. There ya go, that ought to get the discussion going strong. Blessings, Barbara |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Fadac Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:56 AM Hey, don't blame me, I voted for the guy with the big ears. I don't know who to back for the next pres. Gore? Who claims to have invented the internet? Nope, Bush? Who dosn't understand how to buy stuff at Safeway? Hardly. There is one guy that used to be a Union worker of some sort. He worked his way through school. Perhaps. What to do, What to do. Dilbert won't run. -Fadac |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: katlaughing Date: 16 Jul 99 - 11:36 AM Sorry, Dai, I almost asked which Republicans you meant, then in true egotistical American, blithely assumed you were talking about ours. Living near Boston, we used to hear quite a bit about the fundraising done here to fund the IRA. I've said about all I want to on this very painful subject, both in other threads, including the Man from RUC, and in my editorials in the Liberal Opinion. If anyone wants to read a really good book on the subject, get the new novel (with real historical figures and extensive bibliography) entitled "1916". I cannot recommend it enough. katlaughing |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Margo Date: 16 Jul 99 - 11:44 AM Why do you have to kick this stuff up? I feel like I'm being tarred with the same brush as people I don't necessarily agree with. I am conservative. I was so happy to be able to post my opinions and not be ostracized for them. Then you make all these slanted remarks about me just because I call myself republican. Well I don't happen to agree with all republicans, just as I am sure you democrats don't all agree with every single democrat that comes down the pike. GET OFF MY BACK! (Can you tell You've ired me?) Margarita |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: AndyG Date: 16 Jul 99 - 12:48 PM Even given some earlier cross-pond misunderstandings, I'll post this here rather than an a less appropriate lyrics thread.
I am:
I am not:
I believe that the following statements are, sadly, true:
The Republicans are IN THE WRONG killing civilians makes few friends but angers many others.
The Unionists are IN THE WRONG killing civilians makes few friends but angers many others.
The British Government is IN THE WRONG killing civilians makes few friends but angers many others.
The general population of NI is as PO'd as I am with the whole bloody issue but they are pinned down in the above crossfire.
I make no appologies for my view, or my massive simplification of 70(0) years of British-Irish history. If you think any of the above can be denied, fine. Finding a solution to the problem simply involves inverting the above comments. Can you do it ?
AndyG |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Bill D Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:48 PM funny...I read this thread, and my mind jumped to a quote I had not thought of in 30 years or so...
Old woman explaining her sentiments: ....Fredrich Nietsche.."Also Sprach Zarathustra" also to a line in a song by Bob Beers:
"..false are the bickering reigns Bob Beers.."The Seasons of Peace" |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Jul 99 - 02:37 PM Well, I feel really dumb. Of course it was Irish Republicans and not Reagan Republicans Dai was talking about, but that thought didn't even cross my mind last night. I like to think I usually have a fairly cosmopolitan outlook, but I sure missed this one. Ah, it's good for the humility. Anyhow, however this discussion progresses, I hope we'll be able to remember that those who disagree with us also have a great degree of validity in their point of view. We humans tend to demonize our opponents, and to forget that they are humans, too. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: MAG (inactive) Date: 16 Jul 99 - 03:55 PM I am more than a bit confused when I hear Sinn Fein being called, on the news, the political arm of the IRA. It used to be that Sinn Fein was a political party, and IRA was a militant splinter. Sinn Fein went inactive, or whatever, and IRA was just one of the fctions, and it certainly got the most attention, unfortunately. The Irish Republican Club movement struck me as very sane; their program was to get rid of the British occupation army by convincing people to quit the sectarian violence, which kept the army there. Voices of sanity seem to get swamped when things spiral out of control, until there is so much bad history it would take a miracle. Just my 2cents. -- MA |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: SeanM Date: 16 Jul 99 - 04:56 PM My apologies for seconding in with the comedy... I was trying to keep things in a lighter vein amongst all the serious (and at times contentious) threads on the Irish situation. I've got roots that go back to the start of this all (Orange, if you must know)... but I've come to a genuine feeling of disgust for all sides. The only good thing that seems to have come out of centuries of conflict is the folk music that it's spawned. Other than that, my favorite phrase which sums up a lot of how I feel about the conflict comes from PJ O'Rourke, who refers to N. Ireland as 'That Piece of Ireland Which Passeth All Understanding'. M |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Bert Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:53 PM Good for you Margarita. I'm a real lefty myself but I don't think anything belongs here if it's going to upset other Mudcatters. |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Legal Eagle Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:00 PM Has there ever been aan occasion when the forces of the status quo and the proponents of existing heirarchies have had the best songs? Is it a bit like the devil having all the good tunes - and if so have the writers of good hymn tunes got a hidden agenda? |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Margo Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:48 PM Hi folks. I've just come back having been out all day. I feel dumb and apologise for not realizing the reference to the Irish Republican. All the same, who cares what anyone is here? Our common bond is obviously not politics. Can you imagine a bunch of Mudcatters finally getting together and it ending up in a brawl? That's not the way I see it. Maybe being able to state our opinions here safely is a bridge to us finally being able to discuss them in person without angst. Now I'm rambling..........Margarita |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: gargoyle Date: 17 Jul 99 - 01:43 AM A few threads on "wild geese"
A comment or two about "black 47"
A few questions on "Weaning (sic) the Green" Suddenly, we have tilted "Republican?" |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Rick Fielding Date: 17 Jul 99 - 01:52 AM Give me a benevolent disciplined anarchist any day. |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: McMusic Date: 17 Jul 99 - 02:48 AM Joe, I feel dumb right beside you. I thought he was referring to the American political party; guess I'm a lot more provincial than I ever knew. |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Philippa Date: 17 Jul 99 - 03:37 AM It's mostly the Unionists who are now holding back political progress in N Ireland. Maybe we need to start local government with those who are willing to participate in it, ironically all Irish nationalists! |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: WyoWoman Date: 17 Jul 99 - 12:32 PM When it comes to politics, I side with Tom Lehrer, for the most part: "And I don't like anybody very much ....." WW |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Big Mick Date: 17 Jul 99 - 12:48 PM The road being travelled now is the right one. The people of the area have spoken, the cease fire is holding despite a lot of provocation, and the politicians are being forced to make it work. It is edgy, and could fail, but it people of good will continue to press, we could be seeing the end of the Troubles. Wouldn't that be wonderful. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 17 Jul 99 - 07:40 PM a politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man e. e. cummings --seed |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: gargoyle Date: 17 Jul 99 - 11:42 PM A seed is flower....
That is only lacking a little B.S.
|
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: DougR Date: 18 Jul 99 - 04:46 PM Margarita: Well said. I share your conservative philosophy, though I do not agree with everything the Republican Party's leadership (USA) does. I accepted the fact, long ago, that most artists are probably of the liberal persuasion, and I am not surprised when they do not share my point of view (politically). I worked at the National Endowment for the Arts for two years, and one of the first lessons I learned there, was that not everyone believes as I do! I would like to think, however, that this forum promotes neither the conservative or liberal political point of view. Hopefully, we will respect what differences we may have, and treat those who have political beliefs different from our own with the same respect that we wish them to show us! DougR |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: jon a Date: 18 Jul 99 - 06:45 PM just a thought! is the ceasefire helping to make the songs available to a wider audience and that being why Irish sectarian songs are being sought? the sad content of many does not destroy their worth. jon a |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: gargoyle Date: 19 Jul 99 - 01:13 AM The WSJ (USA edition) is one of the most politically conservative papers in the world. Under the heading "Orange Makes Irish Catholics See Red" there are four letters, one reads:
My mother grew up in a mixed village in Col Derry, N.I., in the 1940's and remembers that for three weeks each July, her Protestant neighbors did not speak to Catholic neighbors, with whom they normally lived peacefully, Protestant kids were not allowed to play with Catholic kids as their parents prepared, their society prepared and their government prepared for the annual"celebration" of what is now more than 300 years of hatred.
The local celebration of "the glorious 12th" was capped off by bonfires and the village police sergeant riding a large horse and carrying a bull whip at the head of the local Orange Order parade down Main Street. Your writer, Mr. Pollock, is having difficulty grasping that someone would want to reroute one of these hate parades. There is no point in trying to preserve a horrible anachronism that has divided neighbors and brought centuries of persecution and killing. (Massachusetts)
There are three more similarly strong letters (shortened versions)
Another asks,....... "Mr. Pollock insinuates that the Protestant-Only Oramge Order parades (which celebrate the defeat of Catholics nearly 400 years ago) should be allowed to pass through Catholic neighborhoods because they have since 1807. Because something is a tradition does not make it right. Mr. Pollock states that "[claims that they (Catholics) actually have something to fear from a bunch of old men playing the flute and banging an occasional drum are just silly." Well, maybe the Catholic populace does not like the drunken parader passing by the houses yelling and calling the Catholic women "whores and the men "taigs" (akin to the American "n-word"). Whoever doesn't want this is silly? (Illinois)
A third states,...."The gun will be removed from Irish politics when the reasons for the guns are removed. This is commonsense and the goal and purpose of the GFA." (Georgia)
The fourth, "Here are a few facts: The IRA has held a cease-fire for more than two years, the Loyalists/Unionists have not. The march by the Orange Order is not peaceful. As for Tony Blair trying to "bully" the Ulster Unionist Party, there is precious little sympathy for those who have blocked the democratics process, especially with the violent means displayed thus far by the Orange Order. (Minnsota)
So publishing these letters make the WSJ "pro Republican"???
let's boycott
Wall Street Journal, Friday July 16, 1999 |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: The_one_and_only_Dai Date: 19 Jul 99 - 06:58 AM AndyG. A voice of reason. I hereby promote you to My Conscience - hear, hear, basically, everything you say goes for me too. Dai - Father of two, who are apparently legitimate targets to these subhumans. |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: *Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive Date: 14 Jul 00 - 04:04 PM To learn the truth about the orange order go here -a comprehensive survey concerning tradition and celebration and song http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/orange.html |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: kendall Date: 14 Jul 00 - 04:25 PM the more you stir a turd, the worse it stinks. |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: Irish sergeant Date: 14 Jul 00 - 05:13 PM Amen Kendall! I assumed at first the discussion was about the Republican party in the USA. Margarita you are right, no one should be made to feel uncomfortable or unwanted over there political beliefs. The last truely decent politician in the US was Abraham Lincoln and we all know what happened to him! I will not comment on the troubles in Ireland. I, these days, assume that I know very little on the subject. MOney from America should not be used to finance either side! Asd for politicians, they are proof that you can get rich being full of manure. Kindest reguards to all, Neil |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: DougR Date: 14 Jul 00 - 05:56 PM Kendall, you are repeating yourself! :>) What was the point in dredging up this year old Thread, anyway? DougR |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Jul 00 - 06:08 PM It was dredged up by our resident Orangeman, Conrad the #1 Pissant.........He pullled up 5 just to stir things up and the publicize his peudo-factual website. Also see the thread regarding "Isn't this enough" or something to that effect. The threads he brought back are interesting, but his motives are crappola. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: InOBU Date: 14 Jul 00 - 06:40 PM Funny thing about the free speach. As soon as victems of censorship answer in a free forum, it has been taken over. On the side of the crown you have Ruters, the British Information Service, BBC and on and on, all of whom censor Republican speach. We answer a bigot who endorces a parade to keep in place a status quo which denys basic human rights, and the place is taken over by Republicans. Give me an effing break. Uncharacteristicly pissed... And UNREPENTANTLY REPUBLICAN, as was Thomas Payne Still your pal Larry |
|
Subject: RE: subversion From: InOBU Date: 15 Jul 00 - 08:32 AM PS Reguards to Gargoyle for a thoughtfull contribution. Larry |
| Share Thread: |