WHITBY Folk Week - the small print

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 12:02 PM

The fact is Whitby did show who was on on which days just not a detailed timetable.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 07:59 AM

I made a last-minute decision to go to Sidmouth for a couple of days. My decision on when, and indeed if, to go was helped immensely by being able to view the advance programme on-line.

Festival-goers seem to be divided between those who are quite happy to go without detailed prior information, and those who want, or need, at least a framework to plan their activities around. It is entirely up to a festival to decide how much, if any, information they wish to publish in advance, and it is entirely up to potential visitors to use that as a basis on which to choose which festivals they go to.

Jack has made a perfectly reasonable point, based on his needs and desires. The OP also made a valid point about getting the information in a legible format. If a festival wants to attract visitors with similar needs and desires, then it can provide the information they seek. If, for perfectly valid reasons, the festival chooses not to do so, it won't get those visitors. It's simply a commercial decision.

I don't see why Jack should be slated for making his requirements known, but it seems to be normal on Mudcat to regard any comment which is not entirely favourable as an attack. On the other hand, the festival is fully entitled to disregard those requirements.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 05:54 AM

Jack Campin

Towersey is not what I would call a poorly run festival. Steve Heap is nothing if not a consumate businessman. He has obviously decided not to net-publish the programme as a chronological list, nor as a complete dataset.

I know from stewarding that artists illnesses, venue vagaries and acts of god dictate that the publishing of information too early leads to misinformation. And it is the stewards' fault for not predicting the unforseen, usually. As a result programmes get printed at the last possible moment from organisers' bitter experience.

Chippenham publishes a non-printable version of the programme on the web quite early. Bromyard hasn't. Sidmouth did several versions as the EC fraternity remonstrated that their info was incomplete. They responded incrementally. The organisers' thinking is as varied as the punters' expectations, IMNSHO.

And who of us don't make the odd mistake occasionally? Especially when reading any size of print?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Soldier boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 10:43 PM

Jack campin, your arguments and criticisms are sounding more and more lame,timid and pathetic. They really are getting very boring indeed.
Haven't you got the message yet? Shut up or put up and make the effort next year to come to this festival and enjoy all the delights it has to offer, because with so much on offer, it can't fail to tick all your boxes.
In other words Jack, stop winging from the sidelines and experience it in the raw. You will love it and you will be made very welcome by the whole whitby folkie community. I promise you.
Why do you say that quite a lot of people don't want you there? Man, you are such a sensative soul and take things so personally.My heart bleeds for you. Bless!
We forgive you for all your self-imposed objections and will welcome you anyway.
Bit of a shame that you and your girlfriend lead such diverse lives; with you liking playing and some singing and her liking to dance the night away, so once you hit a festival you go your seperate ways I presume.
For some reason I find that quite funny and it does not surprise me one bit!!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM

And all the dashing about between events gets you fit (and it's worth it)!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:14 PM

Jack,
      It is imposiible to be bored ,at a loose end at Whitby, and I only play flamenco guitar.
                  Mrs Ted Griffin.
                  Pipe smoker of the year 1973

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:19 PM

Jack I don't know how far you'd be coming but do give Whitby a try, (best without a Regatta clash).
It's a wonderful old town and the countryside of the surrounding North Yorks Moors an absolute delight.
If you pm me your address I'll happily send you my this year's programme. (I couldn't read it anyway)
Cheers, John

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Aeola
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 03:03 PM

Fylde FF have a pretty good layout for their prog, cross ref etc.,and once the format is sorted it is only a matter of update year on year.As for cost of production generally the initial 4/500 usually cost the most and then the cost becomes relatively cheaper. Good luck anyway it's not easy organising a FF.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 01:28 PM

Jack - 'ending up on our own with nothing to do for long periods'

That can't happen in Whitby. Maggie and I sort out accommodation, buy a programme when we get there, sort out where we need to be, but spend more time on fringe events (which aren't in the programme anyway). You'll never be short of things to do in Whitby or the surrounding area. We often stay on for a couple of days after for a bit of walking etc, as we are far too busy during the Week itself.

You've got to take Whitby Folk Week on trust. It's been running so long in its present form that you know there will be good concerts with good artists, good dances and good workshops with many other good events that you are always spoilt for choice.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:08 AM

How can one say jack that there could be long periods in Whitby with nothing to do.

The place and its surroundings are lovely.

I have 'over the years spent many weeks on Holiday in Whitby (Winter and Summer) and always found plenty of things to do.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 11:05 AM

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: nutty
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:39 AM

Jack - The problem is that Whitby is unique and even the programme does not give a full flavour of what is available, as the Whitby Fringe adds a large amount of additional events.

The thing to do is .......

1, Find some form of accomodation.
As people tend to book from year to year this is not as easy a task as it may seem.

2. Buy a programme when you arrive --- they are readily available in the shops in Whitby

3. Buy a season ticket from festival office if you think you can fill your week with workshops, concerts and other official events. If not - buy individual event or day tickets. Some groups buy one season ticket between them and pass it round.

4. Above all - explore. The surrounding coast and countryside are some of the most beautiful in England and should be appreciated. The festival puts on events at Robin Hoods Bay for this very reason.

Whitby is only a small seaside town. Moving from one event to another is not difficult for the ambulant and taxi's are always available.

P

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: gnomad
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:28 AM

Would somebody who has one volunteer to mail JC a copy of this year's programme, please. I would do it myself, but don't have a copy.

The general scheme of things changes little from year to year, and while such a measure obviously cannot tell him the detail he needs, it may, when intelligently read in conjunction with such "artists booked so far" information as the website provides, enable him to make the decision as to whether or not to come.

As any regular attender of folk week will tell you, arrangements for accommodation need to be made well in advance of a detailed programme having been decided, never mind published.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 09:04 AM

Jack Campin
It is fairly obvious you are not going to attend Whitby

No it isn't. I'd be more likely to go to it than any other folk festival in England, particularly given Dick Greenhaus's personal recommendation. Won't happen next year but 2011 is a possibility.

But it seems quite a lot of people don't want me there, or any other other new attendees. (The present organizers themselves seem a bit more open minded). The lack of advance information is a complete show-stopper for me.

Specifically: I play instruments and sing a bit; my girlfriend dances. I'd be wanting to go to workshops or other participatory events for music and she'd be wanting to go to others for the kinds of dance she likes at the same time. So we'd need to see the schedule to work out whether that was doable, without one or other of us ending up on our own with nothing to do for long periods. Is that such an outlandish and unreasonable sort of question to ask?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:17 AM

I went this year to the Festival this year (with the wife) for one day to see the dancers and to go into a sing-a-round.

With the Regetta being on we have never seen such crowds but everyone we saw (and all we talked to) were having a great time.

The only low-point is coming back and seeing the whingers and the comments that they make on this site.

We are looking forward to next year - I would suggest to all those with less favourable comments to 'ship out'

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Diva
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:53 AM

I am involved with a festival much smaller than Whitby and am very aware of the work it takes to get ours up and running. Never mind the co ordination that organising 717 separate events must take. Huge thanks to all involved, to the moaners...try running a festival or put your money where your mouth is and offer help

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:41 AM

Oops! That should of course read, And we know which one you are!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 05:15 AM

"Most festivals (in any genre and across all of Europe) manage to get advance publicity made available months ahead. The Edinburgh Fringe is the largest arts festival in the world by a huge margin, and they've been getting their programme published and distributed (free) months in advance for decades."

It's not really fair to compare the situation at Edinburgh with a festival like Whitby - it's not like with like. Edinburgh does not "programme" a festival as such - the hundreds (thousands?) of artists who take part (and their agents and managers) do. Edinburgh Fringe as an entity simply gathers together the information about what is happening. They have enough staff to actually employ a couple of people whose ONLY JOB is to put together the brochure. Because there are no season tickets as such, with each of the events being independent and tickets to each event being purchased seperately (though there is a central box office), having a free brochure which is available at multiple venues around the town is absolutely vital as a shop window, especially for the smaller acts. Also, because there is so much going on, and because promoters' tickets have to be ordered several weeks in advance of the festival (one of the primary functions of Edinburgh is as a showcase where promoters and media get to see new talent, and hundreds of them turn up for the festival), the brochure simply has to be ready when it is, which is about two months before the festival. As a promoter, you receive the brochure, select the events you want to go to, and e-mail the festival office. A dedicated member of staff then has to ring round the agents or the artists involved in the shows you want to see, and request your tickets, which are then waiting for you when you arrive (providing the agent has said yes). As you can imagine, doing this for all of the press and promoter requests that they get is a massive job. It takes a lot of time. And it's one of the main reasons why the Edinburgh brochure is produced whan it is.

I can see both sides of the argument regarding not printing all of the information about what is happening at a festival in order to encourage programme sales. It is an important revenue stream - and we all know that no one is getting rich from this folk festival business, so I hope that Mudcat members are savvy enough to separate this concept from one of "greed". At Sidmouth, you get a free programme if you buy a week's season ticket, which I reckon is pretty fair.

When I ran a smaller festival, we gave details on the website of who was on on which days, but didn't give times or locations. Those were available in the programme, which cost a few quid to buy. But we also posted a daily timetable of events around the building. Nevertheless, a customer (presumably well-meaning) went home and made a spread-sheet of all the events and made loads of copies, and left them all around the building - presumably so that people would not need to buy a programme. We did not know about this until someone came up to Box Office angrily complaining about its inaccuracies - whoever had done it had made loads of mistakes. We had to apologise profusely, but explain that it was nothing to do with us, and try to hunt down any stray copies that were left around. It seemed like a lot of palaver to avoid paying £3.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 04:07 AM

Well said Malcolm. In this world there are two sorts of people, those who do things, and those who stand around criticising. And we know which on you are!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 08:08 PM

Jack Campin

It is fairly obvious you are not going to attend Whitby so why not leave them to it and stop wasting valuable voluntary time?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 09:44 AM

Re the newspaper article - interesting that one of the locals in a conversation on the Sunday was warning me off going into the town on Sunday and Monday evenings because of the rowdy and dangerous element of the people attending the Regatta. That disgruntled person commenting had obviously not met some of the Regatta crowd ... and was daft enough to say that we all camp (catch me doing that - I like my creature comforts)... wonder why it's always so difficult to find accommodation coming up to the festival if we're all living under canvas?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Willa
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:41 AM

Lucy

Your comment -'That's one of the things i love about Whitby - when you come across new and interesting things as well as old favourites.'

Exactly! I was one of those who 'accidentally' found you all, and enjoyed the experience.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mo the caller
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Someone commenting on that newspaper article said we are the rudest people.
I can see how anyone wanting a quiet drink in a pub and surrounded by musicians arriving for a session (e.g. the Fllece Balcony) might think this. But presumably sessions are scheduled with the approval of the licensee.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 07:15 AM

Thanks for posting that JHW - which confirms (sort of) the conversation which I was present at at which one of the Folk Week organisers was making comments about the clash of the two events, and political wranglings, possible moves. All I can say is that I sincerely hope that some of the comments in that report are incorrect - if Folk Week was to decamp to Bridlington next year (?) then an awful lot of us who have paid our deposits down for accommodation next year are going to be less than happy ! That doesn't sound realistic to me (Interesting to note disgruntled commentator number 6 in the newspaper comments - I wonder why she thinks that accommodation for the week is fully booked, and like hen's teeth to obtain if we are all camping???)

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:41 AM

Programmes cost money, and earn revenue. Sensible organisers would not give away their data if they can sell it. And they usually go to press mere days before the event (last minute panics and illnesses, including artistes) and often arrive as they are being asked for. In my experience.

So, your experience is with incompetently run ones. Most festivals (in any genre and across all of Europe) manage to get advance publicity made available months ahead. The Edinburgh Fringe is the largest arts festival in the world by a huge margin, and they've been getting their programme published and distributed (free) months in advance for decades.

Increasingly the trend is for all programming information to be on the web.   The advantages of properly printed hard copy are so great that almost anybody at the festival will want it - and having the info on the web will get more attendees, so the overall effect will be to boost sales of the paper version.

Saying "we're not going to tell you what's on until you're committed to coming, and even then you're going to have to pay us to find out" is not exactly a welcoming attitude. Particularly when there are dozens of other events the punters could go to at the same time which take the approach of "here's what we'll have, does that appeal to you?"

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 06:04 AM

Re Regatta

Whitby Gazette have Folk Week v Regatta thread

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/Whitby-Regatta-and-Folk-Week.5615864.jp

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 03:45 AM

I second that Irene, always an enjoyable contribution from the Wrights.
Jerry.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 07:45 PM

Lucy ... I can't see that you have anything to apologise for. I've always enjoyed the contributions of the various members of the Wright family at the National, Keith Summers Festival and in the last couple of years at Whitby. I very much enjoyed the only set I saw that you all gave at the Football Club - singing, playing of the Jews Harp and all... good humour, virtuousity, and not bad singing either!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Lucy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

Oops, that got sent before i'd finished. What i was saying was:

As a member of the "wrong-making" Wright Family refered to earlier by Les B i'd just like to apologise whole-heartedly if our being missed from the programme caused anyone else any embarrassment.

As new-comers to the festival we were a bit disappointed to get left out but also sort of hoped that it might mean we might get a few more "accidental" listeners! I know jews harps aren't everyone's cup of tea, but we also sing a bit and you know, at least it's something a bit different!

That's one of the things i love about Whitby - when you come across new and interesting things as well as old favourites.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Lucy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:46 PM

As a member of the "wrong-making" Wright Family refered to earlier by Les B i'd just like to apologise whole-heartedly if our being missed from the programme caused anyone else any embarrassment.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:56 PM

Whitby Festival also had a "working" programme which could be pulled out separately of the larger one.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 03:44 PM

Sidmouth offered theirs on the net. Which I duly printed out. This was of course extremely inconvenient to cart about and I bought a "proper" one as soon as I could (which really hurt, me being a Yorkshireman and all). Floreat Sidmoutha!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:44 AM

Programmes cost money, and earn revenue. Sensible organisers would not give away their data if they can sell it. And they usually go to press mere days before the event (last minute panics and illnesses, including artistes) and often arrive as they are being asked for. In my experience.

Towersey cost 4GBP for a mere 4.25 days of festival. I refused to buy, and copied what I wanted manually. But then I would be at each ceilidh and go to the free sessions in pubs, despite paying for my ticket. I missed a few things but I have to admit, if Ipayed 4 quid for a programme I would expect to have the info at hand.

They usually list workshops sperately, which is a blessing.

Larger but not exactly large print - Chippenham charges 2.50 GBP for a booklet about 4 times the size of the Towersey 4GBP one, and you can remove the events as one smaller swatch. Towersey is defintely poorer value.

Small goes in pockets, large you can read. It is not all bad.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:34 AM

Thanks Malcolm

Whitby ff is Whitby ff and such a lovely "little" traditional affair

It is something to be looked forward to each year

To meet people like Malcolm Storey and all the volunteers and guests that go to entertain and be entertained

Every year brings new songs and people into focus

Long may it be so

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:16 PM

Chris - thanks.
Ray Padgett - NO!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:17 AM

Careful Linda, you will end up as "Volunteer signs" next year!

You back in harness for next year then Malcolm?

Gawd 'elp us!

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:41 PM

I've just heard that the Regatta dates are nothing to do with the tides but depend on the availability of the Red Arrows.

I heard that too. It was horlicks then and it is horlicks now.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Tig
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:58 PM

With some of the things people do PhD's on Malcolm I'm sure you could get funding :-) The last thesis I was asked to contribute to was about types of Real Ale.

Or you could just write a handbook on The Challenges of Running a Folk Festival. Most people would never believe it.

It was good to see you looking so well this year.

Hugs
Tig (aka Chris from Doncaster)
xxx

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,old salty
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:47 PM

your being wound up !!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:35 PM

I don't know who Michael is and prefer that he does not speak for me.
There was NEVER any suggestion by anyone official or otherwise that WHITBY Folk Week would move to Scarborough - how could it.
That's like having the Edinburgh fringe in Bristol or anywhere else for that matter.

Regarding the festival office location:
I DO know that the building work meant there was a doubt over this.
The location of the office is normally shown on the pre festival newsletter that goes to ticket holders.
Once in the town the office is signposted.
What more is needed?

It's annoying when people turn opine into fact and there seems to be an awful lot of that on Mudcat.
Even in retirement I can't be bothered to correct them all.
Maybe I could do a mature PhD on correcting WFW myths - I wonder if the lottery people would fund me?

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:41 PM

I've just heard that the Regatta dates are nothing to do with the tides but depend on the availability of the Red Arrows.
Anyone confirm that or am I just being wound up?!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:39 PM

Padge-you mean we're Not at War with the Germans? When did that end? Notices would be a good idea- maybe posted at participatng pubs Sation Endeavour and Library etc - a few venues around Whitby would not be too hard to manage.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:33 PM

Well yes but the previous gist was about continuity of dates wasnt it?

Signs at Bradfield are certainly required as locals tend to think that they are still at war with the Germans and turn the signposts to confuse!

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Northerner
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:11 PM

I second the suggestion of having further outlets for notices of programme changes/sale of the Wailer. Whitby's venues are quite widely distributed. I heard of one progamme change only at the last minute and couldn't get to the venue in time for the start. Having said that the MCs were good at letting people know of last minute changes and organisers were also hotfooting it around the venues to pass information on to people. So let's make their work easier!

A good festival. Thank you everyone!

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Surreysinger
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM

"Bradfield is in the lap of Mark Davies and seems to clash with Cleckheaton next year"
A bit of a non-sequitur, methinks, since Dave's comments were about signage !! And in fact, from my one visit to Bradfield a couple of years back, I seem to recall that Mark _did_ actually put some signs (not signage - a horrible Americanised non-word) up on the country lanes to show the location of his barn. It's not the sort of "festival" that would need signs in the same way as a large town like Whitby.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

Bradfield is in the lap of Mark Davies and seems to clash with Cleckheaton next year

Ray

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: JHW
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:40 PM

Here is my very grateful thanks to Paul Davenport and the host of organisers and stewards who lay on such a great festival.
I do appreciate especially the dedication to keeping the cost down.
Of course I phrased my first post to attract attention but it was in the hope of rallying to my flag all my fellows with vintage vision.
I'm disappointed this hasn't happened. If it had, THEN I could have gone, petition in hand to the organisers.
The thread has gone its own way but folks will regardless have discussed the highs and lows of their Whitby week at the bar of the Station, the Metropole or Cons Club or wherever. Now we're back home Joe and Mudcat generously give us this cyber bar to lean on.
Do keep the chat polite and thanks again to Paul for contributing.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: TheSnail
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:02 PM

It's the sort of task that can easily be delegated to an enthusiast.

Very much to the point. Folk events like Whitby are almost entirely dependant on unpaid enthusiasts who welcome positive suggestions and offers of help. I think they might appreciate a little thanks for their efforts which they certainly get from me. Had a wonderful time.

Subject: RE: WHITBY Folk Week - the small print
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:49 PM

For "Bradwell" read "Bradfield" of course.