Chord Req: DADGAD

Subject: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM

For several years I ve been meaning to try playing my guitar in the alternative DADGAD tuning. Recently I was inspired (by a talented friend who has written some wonderful instrumentals in the open tuning) to finally do it.

Okay, okay I know whatchya thinkin - Ive said this before. Okay , I've said this MANY times before. And didn't follow through. But this time I MEAN IT!!!Honest. In fact, Ive been so inspired that I just tuned my spare guitar to DADGAD. So Im ready to go.

But..ah..where do I go?

I have printed out a couple of pages of chords from some google sites , but I put this to any fans of DADGAD:

1- are there certain songs that YOU play in DADGAD that you suggest I start with? The easier, at least to start with, the better.

2- Is there a specific google site for this anywhere, preferably with chord charts? Or perhaps the talented folks here have already started a DADGAD thread, and I missed it while I was procrastinating   ;-D

3- Is Rockport Sunday, that haunting lovely song by Tom Rush that has flowed in my subconscious for decades- DADGAD?, and is there any tab for it?

4- Is Buckets of Rain in DADGAD? I think its some sort of open tuning, and since I often play this at my lil gigs, it would be nice to try.

Thanks DADGAD groupies .

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 03:01 AM

Are you talking playing tunes or accompanying your (or someone else's) singing?

DADGAD is a tuning, not a key. You don't have to slavishly follow what someone else did with a song so, if you think a particular song would sound good using DADGAD, go ahead and try it, irrespective of whatever tuning was used by the writer or on the CD you heard it from. Part of the fun of working out 'new' songs (new to me, that is) is trying different tunings and chord inversions to get 'The' sound that I like. Sometimes DADGAD works, sometimes something else is better (including standard tuning).

There's no law that says if **(insert your favourite artiste here)** did a song in a particular tuning, that's the only tuning you can use!

DADGAD's a nice alternate tuning for a newbie - you can put your fingers anywhere (almost!) and it will sound OK.

EXPERIMENT!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 03:50 AM

Why not try working out some chord shapes for DADGAD from theory. So, for example, you know that the major triad for the chord of D is D, F# and A - apply that to the tuning and you'll get some varying and interesting fret positions. The major triad for the chord of G is G, B and D - some more fret positions. The major triad for A is A, C# and E - some more fret positions and - presto - you have the three chord trick in DADGAD.

You can also try DADF#AD - which is a little more forgiving for some chord shapes...

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:40 AM

Lots of DADGAD tutorials on youtube

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:41 AM

"Essential DADGAD for Beginners" DVD    by Artie Traum is excellent. Seems to cover all you mention.

   I would also cite Dougie McLean's occasional use of the tuning; some tab available.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: davyr
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:51 AM

I've always taken the view that if Martin Carthy reckons he can't get on with DADGAD, there's absolutely no chance of me doing so...

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:40 AM

Flawed logic alert!

You're not 'someone else', so why superimpose their perceived limitations on yourself. Despite what people may say, Martin isn't God, he's just a guitarist who happens to have developed a style using tunings in which he's very, very practised and very, very good. Who's to say that you can't develop a good ability in DADGAD? You'll never know if you don't try, and practice, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

And maybe Martin was just being modest! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Brian Peters
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:59 AM

I've used DADGAD for years. Advantages are the extra bass resonance you get from those open and detuned strings when playing in basic D position, and the elimination of those nasty thirds you're stuck with for most chords in conventional tuning. The sound is very open and sparse, and invites the use of drones, which suits traditional music but gives a fresh sound to other kinds of songs too. Martin's tunings do the same kind of thing, only more so!

Bad news is it can sound samey if you use it for everything, and if you like a lot of jazzy chords they're harder to find. But you can also use it in G position and A position (the latter works best for modal stuff) for variety, and it can sound good capoed up several frets for a more dulcimer-like effect.

The way I learned it was by trial and error. You can mess about moving the basic chord shapes up and down the neck, and just see what happens.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:06 AM

In my opinion, it doesn't sound too good when, in a session, someone in DADGAD tries to join in with others in standard tuning.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: alex s
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 08:25 AM

Love it, meself. Great for transforming tired old 3 chord accompaniments and easy on the fingers

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 08:59 AM

What Brian and Alex said.
DADGAD played alongside standard tuning sounds fine if it's done properly and all of those playing are using the right chords. I think GUEST,Johnmc's comment says more about the players he's mixed with than it does about DADGAD.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,Kudzuman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:18 AM

I love doing "The Cuckoo" in DADGAD. I do a frailing kinda lick alternating with a strong thumb lead. I'll have to dig out my old interview tape I did with Martin Carthy from years ago and he mentions the tuning he uses and why. It was something like DAEGAD but I need to find that cassette and check it out. If I find out I'll let ya know :) That Stan Rogers tune "Giant" works out well in DADGAD as well.

Kudzuman

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Steve Hunt
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:28 AM

I recommend both "The Irish DADGAD Guitar Book" by Sarah McQuaid and "The DEAD GOOD DADGAD Book" by Phil Mathison.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:22 AM

It's many years since I worked out 'Buckets of rain' and have long stopped playing it but I do remember it worked well in dropped D tuning.

Chris

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 12:32 PM

After listening to Irish and Scottish bands since 1980 (29 years), my view is this.

The bands wanted to emulate the loud, driving sound of modern popular music. They needed to do that, because when people pay for a concert, they expect a full, exciting sound. To get that sound, they turned the guitar from a harmony instrument to a percussion instrument. They did that with DADGAD and a monotonous, pounding stroke.

As somebody said above, it gets samey. Boy, does it get samey.

The Irish bands went a step further and changed the drum (bodhran) from a percussion instrument to the melody instrument. If you have had the pleasure of hearing a good bodhran solo, you will know what I mean.

Is it worth it to learn DADGAD? Perhaps. I'm not going to bother, myself. We play 'Celtic' music all the time without it. And we use more than three chords.

Lefthanded Guitar: to learn more about DADGAD, why don't you go to YouTube and search for those lessons mentioned above. That is, if you have broadband, and I hope you do.

There's also a site called Expert Village that might have something.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:11 PM

Martin uses various tunings other than dadeae,
cgcdgd Orkney tuning is very good,the point is no tuning is perfect,they all [including standard] have different things to offer.
Brian refers to bass resonance ,you get thatTOO with DROP D and Double drop d,double drop d[imo],is a bit more flexible than dadgad,you can play in a easily,and your four middle strings are like standard,so if you finger pick,you can revert back to standard if you want without retuning but just playing the middle four,or get the sound of open tunings by playing all 6 strings.
Julie Henigan has a DADGAD tutor,under the MelBay series,ITS GOOD.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:53 PM

Thank you for ALL your suggestions. I think I would try The Cuckoo first, that sounds like a suggestion I'd like.
I didn't realize that Buckets of Rain is a dropped D (that means regular tuning just with bass E tuned to D, correct?)

I will go to U Tube and try some other suggestions here. I HAVE noticed the resonance, esp. b/c my second guitar is little and doesn't have a big sound- really opened it up in DADGAD.

I may also try DADF#AD as I noticed the chord postions in DADGAD seem to require stretching my fingers a little further they seem to want to go. :-)
thanks GANG I knew I could count on you!!!

Still wondering about Rockport Sunday tho, anyone know about it?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Midchuck
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 03:42 PM

Try and track down Stan Rogers' songbook, "Songs from Fogarty's Cove." Lot of the songs give chords for DADGAD.

Peter

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Stower
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

Personally, I think it's a mistake to think in terms of chords for traditional music. Alternative tunings like DADGAD are great for getting away from chords. Instead play a melody with a drone (not necessarily the same one throughout), a melody with a bass line, a melody with a countermelody (plus maybe a bass line also). If you sing, have the guitar play in unison with the vocal line with a counter melody above or below it and a bass line underneath, or just miss out the melody altogether and play the rest. So much more interesting than chords.

The reason everything sounds the same so often in DADGAD is because too many players only use it for the key of D and, if they want to play in another key, they use a capo and so get just the same sound at a higher pitch! In DADGAD you should be able to play easily in the major or minor of D, C, F, G and A: different key, different sound.

Happy exploring.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 06:41 AM

I agree with you to some extent,but once you start thinking about chords and different inversions and added ninths sixths,and other added notes,plus leaving thirds out sometimes,and studying chord substitution,chords can be interesting.
Stower,when you use DADGAD,do you play melody on the bass strings,with the thumb,or do you pick out melody on the treble strings.
in standard tuning there seems to be at least two styles of melody picking CARTER Thumb,or Piedmont where thumb doesnt play melody but fingers pick it out in treble ,I suppose both techniques would work in DADGAD against modal type drones.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

You got a lot of good advice from some excellent performers on here matey.
DADGAD can sound brilliant,just not alll the time for every thing you do if you are a performer.
It has an initial impact for the audience then can become rather samey?
Also its nicer for the audience if you have two guitars so you dont have to retune so often between songs.
I know its not what you asked but I am planning for the future when you have mastered it and are playing gigs for us .....

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: HarleySpirit
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 09:43 AM

Anyone starting out with DADGAD needs a good useful chord chart.
So many out there start out with 50 or more "D" chord shapes before they show anything else.
To get a more condensed and useful and in "keys" version, check out my chord charts:

Harley's Alternate Tunings Chord Charts - in Keys

Enjoy!
Harley

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 10:15 AM

it gets samey. Boy, does it get samey.

For song accompaniment, yes that's a problem, particularly for the sort of singer who likes to shout like a Vogon and thrash the guitar like a gorilla at the same time. But for tune accompaniment, I'd say standard tuning gets boring a lot faster - all those stacks of thick porridgy thirds clogging up the texture. Hardly any guitarists using standard tuning for the backline seem to realize that you can get more variety by leaving notes out than by adding something extra you picked up in a jazz book.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 01:01 PM

Jack,you are right ,but its about understanding what you are doing,or if not having a natural ear for it,which only a minority have,
.once a guitarist starts to understand about chords,and that you can have all sorts of permutations and that you dont always need full chords,then progress is made.
however adding extra notes can be good too,particularly when you start leaving the thirds out,if you know what you are doing,some of those added notes can be really great with modal dyads.,and can stop DADGAD GETTING SAMEY.
finally dont dismiss JAZZ INFLUENCE,look what it did for Willie Johnson,and dont forget The Easy Club,remember them?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 05:22 PM

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: GUEST,leeneia - PM
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 12:32 PM

"...There's also a site called Expert Village that might have something..."

whatever you do, don't take anything that Expert Village say seriously, they are a total joke.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Stower
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:53 PM

Good Soldier Schweik, if I understand you right ... "Stower, when you use DADGAD, do you play melody on the bass strings, with the thumb, or do you pick out melody on the treble strings ... melody picking CARTER Thumb, or Piedmont" ... you seem to be inferring an American style of playing, where the basic mind-set is chordal (also your reference to jazz infers that) and so hand positions are based on chord shapes. (Carter picking, as I understand it, is very simple picking based on chord shapes, basically a strummed chord with a moving bass - do correct me if I'm wrong as this is not my style of playing.)

That can sound great, in the right hands, but it's not how I play. I tend to perform traditional English and, to my ears, that style doesn't work for the English tradition. I rarely think chordally at all, but rather tend to have a melody line accompanied by a bass line, usually with passing notes between (and often the less like a 'standard chord' the better) or a melody, bass line and a complete inner counter melody.

It's horses for courses. If I'm playing Mediaeval music on guitar or music that originated with the pipes, drones can work very well, either above or below the melody, because that is what the music requires.   

I have a friend who is a very good jazz guitarist, and he would completely agree with "understand about chords, and that you can have all sorts of permutations", as I do, too, but it's largely not the way I chose to play for the material I play. When I make the odd foray into jazz, then I will play chordally and experiment with different inversions and added 9ths, 11ths etc as jazz is made for that.

One last thing. Some years ago Pierre Bensusan decided he would play everything in DADGAD, as he does to this day. I can't imagine anyone accusing PB of sounding samey!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:10 PM

I hate it when things sound samey. :D Lovely expression!

I have always used a dropped D tuning with F# instead of G. which makes a coherent open chord and has always struck me as easier to learn, to play and to tune correctly. The strings are in the same relative pitch as an "E" chord, in normal tuning,but lowered by one whole note.


A

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:35 PM

Jeez, Amos, that's a complicated way of saying that you prefer DADF#AD to DADGAD ...

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:51 PM

Stower,
I asked you whether you played melody on the bass strings with your thumb[or if you like, other fingers]or on the top strings.,just interested in your style.
Another question do you accompany songs or play tunes or both.
the English Song Tradition, [imo]is suited to both styles it really depends on the melody of the song.
Carthy had no problem playing Lord Franklin or Scarborough Fair in standard tuning.
Dave Burland has now gone back to playing quite a few songs in drop d or standard as well as DADGAD.
Carter picking IS MELODY BASED with chord strums in between.
its quite possible to play melody in open tuning,and play dyads[which occasionally become chords by adding a dissonace to the modal dyad ] this is done as you know by leaving the third note out,and it sounds very well for the English tradition[but its still a chord a modal dyad with an added dissonance].
I disagree with you about not adding extra dissonant notes to modal chords/dyads,now and again they can be appropriate,and can sound very good.
HOWEVER some songs do benefit from a clear definition of whether they are major or minor [ examples are Spotted Cow and Leaving of liverpool and Banks of the Lee]

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 07:17 PM

Well, you're right. And I do! :D


A

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:59 AM

Stower , here is the reason I ask is this.the effect is quite different,it is as different as up or down picking melody on a 5 string banjo.
now here is an English song in standard tuning,using modal dyads[two note chords,BUT i use one modal chord d modal 6/9 [d a a b e]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojVFPeU0YQU&feature=channel_page

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 04:15 AM

Cheer's GSS enjoyed that clip..

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 07:12 AM

Stower,or maybe you use a plectrum,all of which would be useful info not just for me but for the OP

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 12:03 PM

"Buckets of Rain" is played in open D: DADF#AD. I like using that tuning, dropped Ds, D minor (DADFAD), just the bass dropped to D and DADGAD. It is always horses for courses. You use the tuning you can make it sound good for you in.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: black walnut
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 02:48 PM

Go to KBrown.ca - it is the website of Canadian Ken Brown and has online lessons in DADGAD. He is a fine DADGAD player.

And here is a great resource by DADGAD player Brian Miller from Minnestota. http://www.5milechase.com/brian.htm You can play along with whistle tunes.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: Stower
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:32 PM

Good Soldier Schweik, since this thread has been revived, you wrote above to me, "I disagree with you about not adding extra dissonant notes to modal chords/dyads,now and again they can be appropriate,and can sound very good." I think you must has misread me, as I would never suggest avoiding dissonance. I wonder if you misread this post of mine?: "I rarely think chordally at all, but rather tend to have a melody line accompanied by a bass line, usually with passing notes between (and often the ***less*** like a 'standard chord' the better) or a melody, bass line and a complete inner counter melody."

Since you ask, I never use a plectrum. Think of early music, and especially lute music, and you'll be somewhere near my style and my thinking.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:04 PM

yes, sorry, stower,a misreading.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: DADGAD
From: HarleySpirit
Date: 30 Sep 09 - 10:27 PM

... er... ok,... so now,... can I interest you in purchasing my DADGAD chart?

Harley