Subject: Trombones at sessions From: The Vulgar Boatman Date: 01 Oct 09 - 06:40 PM Can anybody explain to me why there is currently a rash of goddamn morons who think that a roomful of fiddlers, flutes and squeezebox players will be improved by the miscellaneous out-of-tune glissando fartings of a slush-pump? Or in last night's case, two slush-pumps. I used to like the trombone, but frankly this current practice is about as welcome as piles, which are, as we know, a pain in the arse and quite difficult to get rid of. Here endeth the rant. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Paul Burke Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:12 PM Ten years ago it was didgeridoos. I used to know a trombonist who could play along with the best in the diddleydiddley stuff. Sadly lost touch. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:16 PM I don't know an instrument that hasn't been played badly (or at least inappropriately) at a session, apart from bagpipes. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Paul Burke Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:34 PM Too many negatives, Mr MacKenzie. I've known bagpipes played badly and iappropriately at sessions. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:41 PM I've been lucky in my choice of pipers (of all denominations). |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Campin Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:49 PM I've seen a couple of trombones going cheap locally and was quite tempted. Unfortunately they were tenors, and a bass would make more sense in traditional music. (Ideally a bass in G to play in the usual folky keys - there should still be a supply of them out there). Something that plays a good solid melodic bass line is much more of an asset to a session than one of those watchamacallits with six strings and a drawer-sized soundbox that sounds like a right-arm amputee trying to play a piano filled with porridge. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:52 PM As a guitarist, I agree entirely with Jack. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: TheSnail Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:32 PM I've seen a couple of trombones going cheap Really? |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Leadfingers Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:45 PM I thought it was Budgies that went 'Cheep' !! OK ! I've got my Hat AND my Coat ! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: meself Date: 01 Oct 09 - 11:23 PM Was at a session once at which Rory MacLeod was playing trombone - and a splendid addition it was. But then, that's Rory MacLeod. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: M.Ted Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:56 AM I rather like the idea of the trombones, which, in the long past, were often played for dancing and such. In other parts of the world, brass instruments and reeds are still part of the mix--how do you feel about tubas? |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: VirginiaTam Date: 02 Oct 09 - 02:38 AM Is it that community bands are suffering the same fate as some folk clubs? The membership is aging and so the organisation falls apart leaving a gaggle of homeless musicians shuffling off to other places to ply their music. I have been at a session that had outstanding oboe and piccolo. Definitely an asset. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: GUEST,Mc Fat Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:10 AM At the Coach in Uppermill during Saddleworth FF this year I took prt in n afternoon session where two stalwarts of the local jazz scene took part on trumpet and trombone and I thought it was double fabtastic. At times the trombone was just like having a good string bass player and the trumpet player was really iventive too |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:31 AM We have an excellent session trombone player in Sussex in the person of Mel Stevens (author of French tune books for Mel Bay). I well remember the reaction of a blameless and self-effacing banjo player when Mel sat down quietly behind him in a full-blooded session and, in the banjo-player's words, lit the afterburners on the trombone. It must have been like dozing in the Channel in a rowing boat and waking up with a start to realise that the QE2 was trying to get past. Mel also plays fiddle, melodeon, accordion and French bagpipes and is an asset on all of them. Tubas and trombones are much like any other instrument in a session: fine if the player adjusts their speed and volume to the group, deadly otherwise. One of our local regulars, Derrick Hughes, has recently started deploying a serpent to great effect; it helps to keep the pulse steady, particularly in a long thin room (tee hee). Half a dozen big brass jobs playing at once might be a problem, but I'll wait until I hear it happen before forming an opinion. Valmai (Lewes) |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: greg stephens Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:15 AM The Boat Band played its celebratory annivesary conceret on WEdnesday with two trobones heavily featured. And personally, I thought it was great. But it was Dan Fox and Kate Barfield playing them. Like any instrument, they can be used wisely or stupidly. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Acorn4 Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:23 AM Budgies only go cheap if they are on higher perches! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Will Fly Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:38 AM Mel is a superb trombone player and, in answer to your anti-guitar rant (once again), Jack, I have to say that I play guitar at sessions and do so with appropriateness to the tunes at hand. This constant anti-guitar rant - without actually knowing players concerned - is stupid and boring. If your own experience has been poor in this area, tough luck, but it's not the same everywhere. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Blandiver Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:41 AM Interesting stuff. I prefer my brass muted - be it a Miles Davis trumpet, a Don Cherry pocket cornet, or a Tommy Dorsey trombone. Do these guys use mutes at all? |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work) Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:50 AM The guy on the trumpet used the mute to good effecton one number it sounded like a harmonica |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Banjiman Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:51 AM As a banjo player I encourage any instrument that deflects the flack from me!!! Kate Barfield is tops though! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: The Sandman Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:04 AM its nothing to do with the instrument[ever,ever ever].its the fucking player. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: banjoman Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:06 AM Its a pity that all instruments in the hands of inept players who force themselves on sessions cant be regarded in the same way as the Mute Swan which only makes a noise when its about to die |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:10 AM That must be its cygneture tune. Valmai |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Leadfingers Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:14 AM Had a guy turn up at The Newt with a Soprano Sax = He could play it OK , but WASNT lisstening to any one else and went off in a huff when it was suggested he LISTENED and didnt try to make EVERY one play the way he wanted |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Terry McDonald Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:41 AM We had a soprano sax player turn up at Wimborne a couple of weeks ago (curved soprano, like a small alto)and although he could certainly play, he drowned everyone else out. On a positive point, he joined me on one of my songs but only played when I indicated that I wanted a solo from him. That worked well, but when he just joined in with other people, it didn't work at all. I was told last night that he'd joined the weekly Irish session at another pub and was told that 'not knowing the tune might be fine for jazz, it certainly didn't work for folk.' He left in a huff. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Blandiver Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:04 AM and was told that 'not knowing the tune might be fine for jazz, it certainly didn't work for folk.' He left in a huff. With a comment like that he probably left in despair! What is it with folkies & improvisation anyway? Generally I avoid sessions like the plague, though we have a good one where improvisation is implicit throughout both in tunes and songs. Haven't see any trombones yet though! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Bat Goddess Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:52 AM We had a plastic, electronic saxophone for awhile. (But that was another country and, besides, the bloke is dead." Linn |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: treewind Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:09 AM "went off in a huff when it was suggested he LISTENED" Good riddance then. You need neither that kind of musicianship (if you can call it that) nor that attitude in a session. Re Valmai: I suppose you can have too many brass instruments, but they do seem to work well (and enjoy it) in pairs, if the players are any good. I've had the privilege of playing in a few sessions as well as the Pig Dyke Molly band and a ceilidh band with Dave Parker, who is a fabulous Sousaphone player, and also plays a lot of jazz so is equally likely to come up with The Gloucester Hornpipe or "on the Sunny Side of the Street" (yes, on a Sousa...). He usually gets together with Nick Barber on French Horn at some point in the Whittlesea Straw Bear weekend, with predictably magical results. A tuba and a trombone are a nice combination too. When English Rebellion (which includes Nick Barber) recorded an album recently, on may of the tracks where he played horn he recorded two horn parts in harmony. It just works well like that. Anahata |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: treewind Date: 02 Oct 09 - 08:32 AM ...and slightly more on topic, it's not trombones particularly that are a nuisance: I think a reasonably accurate definition of the problem area is "any loud instrument in the hands of a player who doesn't know how to listen". We actually had a trombone in the house, on hire for a few months while Mary was trying to decide whether she'd get on with it. Unfortunately she gave up the struggle, but I learned a lot about brass instruments in general and trombones in particular during that time. Anahata |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: The Sandman Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:22 AM Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Suibhne O'Piobaireachd - PM Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:04 AM and was told that 'not knowing the tune might be fine for jazz, it certainly didn't work for folk.' He left in a huff. With a comment like that he probably left in despair! What is it with folkies & improvisation anyway? Generally I avoid sessions like the plague, though we have a good one where improvisation is implicit throughout both in tunes and songs. Haven't see any trombones yet though quite,just look at some of the pillocks over on the www .session.org,a significant proportion of whom are aload of narrow mineded ignoramuses. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: blackpearl Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:30 AM My sympathies go out to the person who had two trombones at their session. The odd one now and again is tolerable but two? And regularly?. It begs the question, which could be asked similarly of geetars, bowrawns, spoons, didges and so on ad nauseam, what would happen if no proper session instrument players (and by that I mean boxes flutes whistles and even fiddles) turned up and they were all left to their own "devices"? What terrible cacophony would be foisted upon the punters and barstaff? |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Les from Hull Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:01 AM The same could be said for any instrument at a session that is played too loudly or not sympathetically. People should realise that a session is a co-operative thing, not an opportunity to show how loud or fast you can play. The lead instruments have the tune, and the people playing the 'accompaniment' shouldn't be overwhelming them. On the subject of improvisation, I find that's OK if it's played behind the main tune, and not all the time. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: blackpearl Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:08 AM >The same could be said for any instrument at a session that is played too loudly or not sympathetically. Hmmm...I dunno. I hear what you are saying but feel maybe that's a generalisation, ie, I think I'd rather hear a mediocre fiddle or flute player than a "good"(?) spoons player playing solo. Just a thought. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Vic Smith Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:30 AM In a large session - and there were quite a number of musicians in a huge come-all-ye scratch band playing for dancing at a party in Barcombe recently, something bassy to help mark the tempo is a great asset with the role being taken alternately by the aforementioned Mel Stevens on trombone and Derrick Highes of serpent - lovely stuff! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: treewind Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:43 AM "something bassy ... is a great asset" One of the joys of taking a bass instrument to a session (I've done it with a cello sometimes) when you're the only bass instrument is that you can make so much difference to the sound. Also you can join in usefully even when you don't know the tune well, or at all. Anahata |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Stringsinger Date: 02 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM Not knowing the tune is The trombone is a beautiful instrument and in the hands of a skilled player can make an ensemble regardless of what it is come to life. You might as well criticize squeeze boxes as wheeze boxes and fiddles as chicken scratching. As the old cliche goes, "It's the player, not the instrument". There are times when a rough sounding trombone sounds good as in a trad jazz band. There are times when a wheezing accordian can sound plaintive. Playing was is appropriate is more important than what instrument is being played. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Stringsinger Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:02 PM For some reason my statement "Not knowing the tune is fine for jazz" was distorted. It should read not knowing the tune is NOT fine for jazz. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: GUEST Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:03 PM I think I'd be more concerned if someone turned up with a Theramin [and a 'play-in-one-day' booklet tucked in their trouser arse pocket]. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Bonzo3legs Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:32 PM There is nothing more nausiating than a bunch of fiddles being played in a pub session I'm afraid. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: bubblyrat Date: 02 Oct 09 - 01:59 PM Like my dear cousin Will Fly, I too enjoy playing the guitar in "sessions",and am fed up with with the rantings of that instrument's detractors.Yes,I know that there are people out there whose abilities in that direction are both limited and questionable,but ,with practice,the guitar can make a valuable contribution ,in competent hands,to any "session",be it English,Irish, or even Mongolian (although I haven't actually tried that yet )--possibly. As to (as per thread title) trombones ? Well, I am well used to them,having played in Naval bands for 11 years,and find them quite agreeable (in the right hands),despite the constant danger of being lanced or impaled whilst counter-marching,BUT .....in inexperienced hands in a "Session" ?? Oh Dear !! I was having a LOVELY time in a pub in Bampton ( Devon) last autumn,until a woman produced a trombone on which she proceded to play raucous,un-musical BLASTS,to the consternation of ,well, me,if nobody else,so I left : it was AWFUL (and quite unnecessary !).And it sounds CRAP (usually) in Morris sides too ! UUghh !! |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: autoharper Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:19 PM "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949) |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Les from Hull Date: 02 Oct 09 - 05:29 PM Maybe I didn't make my point well enough, Blackpearl! There's room in sessions for everyone. I've played the melody on melodeon, harmonica or bouzouki, counter melodies on melodeon, harmonica or bouzouki, rhythm accompaniment on bouzouki or guitar, or the bass line on bass guitar. All I'm saying is that no one should drown out the tune, which is the basis or the session. And if people who are playing the tune can't hear the bloody tune then something's gone wrong. And if people don't know the tune, then they should play very quietly (or not at all) whether they are following the melody or providing some accompaniment. And to further illustrate I will append 'The Spoons Murder' by the excellent Con O'Drisceoil. In the tavern one night we were sitting - I'm sure 'twas the last week in March - From our drinks we were cautiously sipping To ensure that our throats didn't parch. We played music both lively and dacent To bolster our spirits and hopes, And we gazed at the females adjacent And remarked on their curves and their slopes. Till this gent wandered into the session And decided to join in the tunes; Without waiting to ask our permission He took out a big pair of soup-spoons. Our teeth in short time we were gritting As he shook and he rattled his toys, And the company's eardrums were splitting With his ugly mechanical noise. Hopping spoons off our heads to provoke us He continued the music to kill; Whether hornpipes, slow airs or Polkas They all sounded like pneumatic drills. Then he asked could we play any faster, As his talent he wished to display, With a grin on the face of the bastard Like the cat when she teases her prey. Our thoughts at this stage were quite bloody And politely we asked him to quit; We suggested s part of his body Where those spoons might conveniently fit. This monster we pestered and hounded, We implored him with curses and tears, But in vain our appeals they resounded In the desert between his two ears. When I went out the back on a mission, He arrived as I finished my leak; He says "This is a mighty fine session, I think I'll come here every week". When I heard this, with rage I was leppin', And this torture no longer I'd take: I looked 'round for a suitable weapon To silence this damned rattlesnake. Outside towards the yard I did sally To find something to vanquish my foe: I grabbed hold of a gentleman's Raleigh With fifteen-speed gear and dynamo. Then I battered this musical vandal As I shouted with furious cries "My dear man your last spoon you have handled, Say your prayers and await your demise!" With the bike I assailed my tormentor As I swung in a frenzy of hate, Till his bones and his skull were in splinters And his health in a very poor state. And when I was no longer able, I forestalled any last minute hitch By removing the gear-changing cable And strangling that son-of-a-bitch. At the end of my onslaught ferocious I stood back and surveyed the scene; The state of the place was atrocious, Full of fragments of man and machine. At the spoons-player's remains I was staring, His condition was surely no joke, For his nose was clogged with ball-bearings And his left eye was pierced by a spoke. At the sight I was feeling quite squeamish, So I washed up and went back inside; Then I drank a half gallon of Beamish, As my throat in the struggle had dried. Unpolluted by cutlery's clatter The music was pleasant and sweet; For the rest of the night nothing mattered But the tunes and the tapping of feet. At an inquest, the following September, The coroner said "I conclude The deceased by himself was dismembered As no sign could be found of a feud. And the evidence shows that the fact is, As reported to me by the Guards He indulged in the foolhardy practice Of trick-cycling in public house yards". So if you're desperately keen on percussion, And to join in the tunes you can't wait; Be you Irishman, German, or Russian, Take a lesson from his awful fate. If your spoons are the best silver-plated, Or the humblest of cheap stainless steel, When you play them abroad, you'll be hated, So just keep them for eating your meals. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: TheSnail Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:32 PM Now, the other night I took my wife down to a Music Hall. And ever since that blooming night it has been her downfall. She sat beside the bandsman, and he filled her with delight, The fellow that played the trombone, he stole my wife that night. With his rum-she-ra-ra, rum-she-ra-ra, rum-she-ra-ra-day, The fellow that played the trombone, he stole my wife away, He pulled that long thing in and out, he made her feel so gay, He really tickled her fancy with his rum-she-ra-ra-day. Now she said she liked his music, she'd go there every week, I said it would be her downfall if she didn't stop her cheek, She took no notice what I said, and when from time to time, I stayed home and nursed the kids while him and her did shine. Now the other night I woke and found she'd gone with all her clothes, She'd gone with that bandsman, to a land where no-one knows, But if ever I should find 'em, I'd spoil their honeymoon, I'd smash his bloody instrument if I catched him playing a tune. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Will Fly Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:44 AM Great song! Would "The end Of Me Old Cigar" be an appropriate tune for this? |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: treewind Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:42 AM nothing more nauseating than a bunch of fiddles Again it depends on the players, but I think the fiddle is the instrument that benefits most from numbers. Exciting without overpowering, unlike the same number or melodeons or - well, anything else, really. There must be a reason why it's the most numerous instrument in an orchestra. Trouble with lots of fiddles together (sometimes) is they start playing tunes in A and there's no stopping them... Anahata |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: TheSnail Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:53 AM Will Fly Great song! Would "The end Of Me Old Cigar" be an appropriate tune for this? Another Will that we both know used to sing it about thirty years ago although he sometimes had to check who was in the room first. Off to Tenterden. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Blandiver Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:33 AM Last night I dreamed of a session in which 76 trombonists were crammed in the back room of The Cumberland Arms in Byker playing endless Irish laments - a third of them carried the melody, a third of them approximated regulators, the rest played drones. This morning I'm drafting a letter of application to the Arts Council for funding to make this a reality. 76 Folk Trombones is the working title of my project. As well as playing in pubs, my idea is to tour Medieval English Cathedrals where the musicians will wander freely by way of an installation rather than a performance as such. The exception to this will be a Joyful Noise to the Lord Trombone Folk Mass at Paddy's Wigwam which will include Irish Dancers, Fluffy Morris and several community Drum Choirs with all the music taken from the Psalm Tones of Joseph Gelineau which will be sung by monks and laity alike. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:42 AM Massed trombones are a sort of community music form in some places. Look up Moravian trombone choirs. |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Jack Blandiver Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:21 AM A nice concept but the reality is about as interesting as the Ukulele Orchestra of GB - in other words, more muso tedium! Trombones are the instruments of Angels - like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GohBkHaHap8 |
Subject: RE: Trombones at sessions From: Declan Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:51 AM I remember once when Rory McLeod (a name I haven't heard much lately) was visiting Dublin back in the 80s and produced a trombone in an Irish trad session in Hughes's pub. A certain well know Cok bozouki player looked up, grinned, mumbled "That's f**king ridiculous" and put his head down and kept playing. I quite enjoyed the trombone that night, but amn't generally that fond of them in sessions, but as has been said earlier, it always depends who's playing it. |
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