Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: semi-submersible
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:43 PM

Wonderful scholarship, and fascinating stuff!

Re David el Gnomo's aside:
"I was realy interested to hear that the song in question was based on a Ukraine folk song though - It now goes in with 'Those were the days' and 'The Carnival is over' for me. How many more are there?"

George Gershwin's Summertime is another, according to Denise and Randy Bachman's research for their CBC program Vinyl Tap. The melody is borrowed from a traditional Ukrainian lullaby.

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 07:53 PM

In verse 5, all three should be Gräber (or graeber, if umlaut not used).

In "Sagt wo.....," the Title word should be Veilchen (violets). Sorry that I was so sloppy.

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: semi-submersible
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 09:25 PM

Q, I enjoyed your translation of "Sagt wo sind die Veilchen hin?" Where could I find an ABC or score of the tune? Mind if I rearrange some of your phrases for rhyme and rhythm, such as, in verses 2 and 3: "Which we plucked, a-singing;" and "Was brook in valley sinking."?

Could "die Blumen Konigin" in the third line refer to the violets themselves? Little violets don't seem exactly regal, and I'd expect them to be called by a diminutive like Blumchen.

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Gulliver
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 11:57 AM

Score and ABC here

Don

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Gulliver
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 12:40 PM

Jacobi's song is prefaced with "Nach einem alten Liede" (after an old song). According to an article in the same journal that printed Jacobi's song (1782), Carl Wilhelm Pörner wrote (1783) that this "old song" is the Gartenlied (Garden Song) by Carl August Svabe (born c. 1711), written about 1750. He was secretary to a functionary at the court of Dresden. In this song, which became popular while Svabe was absent due to the Seven-Year's War, the author (poet) asks at the beginning of each verse:
Where are the violets
Where are the tulips
Where is the rose
Where are the girls
Where are the friends
Where is the poet

...and they're all gone, of course.

Svabe possibly based his song on an older song, either German or Italian (but I've afraid I don't have time to go into this now!).

Don

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 12:50 PM

semi-submersible, change it as you wish; it ain't mine, but was found on the internet (ingeb?). I may have changed a word or two to something less stilted.

Gulliver, thanks for posting the earlier history of the song. The melody is simple and memorable, the idea behind the song instantly catches one, thus it has been passed down and revised through time.

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Gulliver
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 01:32 PM

I forgot to mention my source for the information on Svabe, which is here (in German). The PDF contains a setting for Jacobi's song dating from 1783.

Don

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Nov 09 - 03:53 PM

The reference cited by Gulliver has three more verses to "Sagt, wo sind die Veilchen hin. They add to the similarity.

4
Bringe denn zur Laube mich,
Wo die Rosen standen,
Wo in treuer Liebe sich
Hirt' und Mädchen fanden.
Wind und Hagel stürmten sehr:
Jene Laube grünt nicht mehr.
5
Sagt, wo ist das Mädchen hin,
Das, weil ichs erblickte,
Sich mit demutvollem Sinn
Zu den Veilchen bückte?
Jüngling! alle Schönheit flieht:
Auch das Mädchen ist verblüht.
6
Sagt, wo ist der Sä:nger hin,
Der auf bunten Wiesen
Veilchen, Ros' und Schäferin,
Laub' und Bach gepriesen?
Mädchen! unser Leben flieht:
Auch der Sänger ist verblüht.

Hamburger Musen Almanach für 1783 .
Perhaps Gulliver has a decent translation.

Subject: RE: Origins: 'Where Have All the Flowers Gone?'
From: GUEST,Joe Moyes
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 03:28 PM

I've always enjoyed playing a version of this song, with some added words at the end for comic effect. When i first heard this song, it was by the kingston trio on one of their compilation albums. Pete seeger has always deserved to to credited with the writing of this song. Also Joe Hickerson, i believe should be credited for writing some extra verses. Which everyone knows it as.