Where, How to buy Celtic music?

Subject: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: plnelson
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:06 PM

I live in the Boston area and listen to several folk music shows on the radio or internet streams.   I often hear music, especially Celtic music, that I want to obtain but find it difficult or expensive. For example, WGBH has a show, Celtic Sojourn, where the host, Brian O'Donovan, travels to Ireland or Scotland and brings back CDs for the show's music library.

Much of this music seems unavailable in the US. CD's can be ordered online from the bands but they are INCREDIBLY expensive - €15 is typical, which is $22.50 at today's exchange rate.    That's too much, considering I'm unemployed and I may only be interested in 1 or 2 tracks. Online sites like Amazon, Rhapsody, and iTunes seldom carry this music.

Furthermore, I don't listen to CD's - my music collection is about 15,000 tracks and it's all digital so I can listen on my iPod, my Sonos system, etc, so if I buy a CD I also have to rip it and tag it properly.   

Being a good geek, I know how to stream-capture this music to add to my library for free, but that seems unethical because the artist gets nothing for it.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why do Irish CD's cost so much?

2. Why don't Celtic bands get with the 21st century and sell their music digitally track-by-track?   Being a good geek I know that's easy to set up - digital distribution is easier and cheaper for the artist than CD's (and a LOT more environmentally responsible!!) and the merchant account part is the same.   Artists are always complaining that people rip them off by using "file-sharing" services, but if they met the public halfway by making it easy to buy their music online it would cut down on that.

3. Do I have other reasonable alternatives for buying music from Celtic bands?

Thanks in advance for advice and comments.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:09 PM

most CD's in Music Shops in UK are round the £15 mark , and usually £10 from the Artist at a concert !

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:14 PM

but remember Dick at CAMSCO !

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:31 PM

€15 for a CD is on the cheap side of things, in Ireland anyway. Some years ago some chanced to go up to €22.

Some years ago, after launching a CD, I received a number of e-mails along the lines of the original post in this thread.

All I can say is that a CD comes at a price, if you don't want to pay it, that's up to you. Bear in mind most distributors, especially the US ones, pay the artist who put the CD out a laughable amount,most of the time barely above cost. Only to put on a 200-300% mark-up on it on re-sale. Some only accept sale or return options which means you'll have to chase up payments sometimes over a year after they took (and probably sold)your CDs. More hassle.

Selling tracks on-line is a lot of hassle and not worth the effort from the artist's point of view.

Custy's musicshop in Ennis is your best option, to buy CDs and for the fair way they deal with the people making the CDs.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:34 PM

Have you checked on iTunes? I've bought a lot of Irish (if that's what you mean by Celtic - is it?) stuff there.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Gervase
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:54 PM

Celtic - you mean Welsh, Manx, Breton, Catalan? Can be hard to find, but there are some gems out there. Masses of crap MoR Irish stuff, but a lot of it isn't what I'd call Celtic.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM

In the US, try CD-Baby for a good selection of "Celtic" (whatever that is) music. Amazon has a lot of the more commercially successful musicians and groups, and they do sell both complete albums and tracks as MP3 downloads.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Elmore
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 03:02 PM

Check the web site for Ossian USA., New Hampshire based,Fairly priced,not cheap though.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Zhenya
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:05 PM

Another source for downloads not yet mentioned is eMusic.com, although that does require a subscription. However, there are several different levels of plans available. They carry a huge amount of Celtic music, both the bigger names and lots of lesser known (but very good artists as well.) Most people have month to month plans, so you could join for awhile, get what you want and then quit, if that suits you. Most items are available by single track, although they've recently started having some good deals on whole albums. Per track prices are usually the lowest around - music lower than iTunes and even Amazon. (in the range of 40-50 cents a track, depending on the plan. This month I got some of the album deals, and ended up with a per track rate of about 35 cents.) I've been using the service for over three years and have been very happy with it. I'm including a link here to an eMusic thread I started a year and a half ago that is still going strong (on and off) involving a discussion of the Celtic music available on eMusic.

Celtic Music on eMusic


Another possibility for you is to buy used CDs via Amazon or other places, as those would be a lot cheaper than new. Another source is Compass records, which has sales a few times a year on their Celtic music, with CDs running about $12 during their sale. (They have taken over the old Green Linnet label, among other things.) I just took a quick look, and it seems their digital albums go for about $10.)

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM

Now, why did I know this was going to be about Irish (and some Scottish) music. Thanks, Gervase, for your input!

Probably won't be of interest but ... the majority if not all of the Sain catalogue is on iTunes.

sian

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:12 PM

If you want CDs, check with CAMSCO (call 800/548-FOLK). Irish imports typically sell for $15-$18. If you want downloads, I can't help you.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:25 PM

And the Catalans aren't celts. The Galicians might regard themselves as such.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM

Try Amazon.co.uk or 7digital.com for downloads
The cost will depend on the current exchange rate.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 05:21 PM

Consider this approach, plnelson.

Locate a non-profit organization which sponsors concerts by Celtic musicians. (Surely Boston has some.) Join. Volunteer to work the events. Perhaps if you work the event, you won't need to buy a ticket.

Buy your music there, from the musician. no shipping, no charge for exchanging currency. Plus, you know the performers, in a way.

That's how I do it.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 02:28 AM

Not trying to make it 'about Irish music', Sian, just looking for a definition of terms, to see what the original poster meant.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: BobKnight
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 04:59 AM

For Scottish music try www.footstompin.com

They have a great selection of both old and new Scottish music.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Nick
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 08:05 AM

A quick search on Spotify for the word Celtic produces 5620 results and that hardly touches the surface of what is there. Perhaps you could give an idea of what you are looking for specifically

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Nick
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 08:15 AM

Sorry I realise that you don't have it in the US. There were actually 6075 tracks in the 'Celtic' genre and just under 43000 in the 'Folk' genre. Perhaps you know someone in the UK who you could join through and purchase a Premium version where I think you could use it in other countries.

A free user can use it outside the country for 14 days but no longer

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 08:41 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_music

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:24 PM

Selling tracks on-line is a lot of hassle and not worth the effort from the artist's point of view.

Could you explain why?

If the artist is already selling CD's online (as all the artists I've looked-for are) then they already HAVE the merchant account, billing, security, etc, etc set up.

So selling individual tracks should be EASIER than CD's because the tracks have already been mixed, etc, for the CD. All you have to do transcode them to MP3 and bingo.    There's no packaging, pressing, labeling, mailing, etc, to worry about.

Plus you'd VASTLY increase the size of your market because only the richest, most dedicated fans will shell out over $20 to buy one or two tracks.   But they'll happily shell out a buck or two for a track.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:36 PM

Have you checked on iTunes? I've bought a lot of Irish (if that's what you mean by Celtic - is it?) stuff there.

Yes, I said I did in the original post.   iTunes, Amazon, Rhapsody, etc, mostly carry major bands with widespread label distribution.    As I said in my OP, O'Donovan goes over to Ireland and Scotland and brings back lots of CD's by bands that never get over here and they're great, and they sell CD's on their websites for more than I can afford.

My wife and I were in Scotland a few years ago and noticed the same thing - there are lots of great local bands no one on this side of the pond has ever heard of.

BTW - another advantage of selling electronically is this: once you do a pressing for X number of CD's, if you sell out but you don't think there'll be enough NEW sales to justify another run, then the CD is out of print.    That's why there is so much good music that's out of print. But you never "run out of electrons". If you project you're going to sell 1000 CD's so you press that many, and only 600 sell, you're stuck with 400 coasters that you paid for. If sell all 1000 and there's another 133 people who want to buy some, you can't sell any without taking the risk of another pressing batch.   Electronic distribution scales exactly to demand.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:57 PM

Another source for downloads not yet mentioned is eMusic.com

I was an eMusic member for about a year, a couple of years ago.   They had SOME of the bands I was looking for - maybe 10-20% - but not most of them.    I'll take another look at them incase they've gotten better.

Celtic - you mean Welsh, Manx, Breton, Catalan?
Yes, as long as the music has significant Celtic traditional influences even if they play modern songs, genres instruments. If they play it on Celtic Sojourn, Thistle and Shamrock, or other such shows it's Celtic enough for me.

Another possibility for you is to buy used CDs
I have mixed feelings about used CD's because the artist doesn't make any money from my purchase.   If the artist isn't going to make money anyway I might as well just stream-capture it for free.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,Peter Nelson
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 07:08 PM

Locate a non-profit organization which sponsors concerts by Celtic musicians. (Surely Boston has some.) Join. Volunteer to work the events. Perhaps if you work the event, you won't need to buy a ticket.

Buy your music there, from the musician. no shipping, no charge for exchanging currency. Plus, you know the performers, in a way.


What makes you think they come to Boston?   As I said before, the local host of WGBH's Celtic radio show goes over THERE to get this music!   These are mostly artists that stay in the EU-area. They're not big or rich enough to do world tours.   We're not talking Boys of the Lough or Battlefield Band or Enya here.   

Anyway, even if they did come to Boston it would be cheaper to buy the CD mail order when you throw in the cost of the gas, parking, subway, etc - we live out in the sticks.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 07:19 PM

It's a shame Woven Wheat Whispers isn't around anymore. That's the kind of thing they carried, and it was all available to download.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,Peter Nelson
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 07:19 PM

Sorry I realise that you don't have Spotify in the US. There were actually 6075 tracks in the 'Celtic' genre and just under 43000 in the 'Folk' genre. Perhaps you know someone in the UK who you could join through and purchase a Premium version where I think you could use it in other countries.

A free user can use it outside the country for 14 days but no longer

I can't even use the free version here in the US.

A bit OT, maybe, but this illustrates a big reason why so many people steal music.   Because the powers-that-be make it so damned hard to buy it legitimately!    I'm a Rhapsody subscriber and it's the same with them when we travel outside the US - in most places we're cut off.    I don't even know who's doing it.   It can't be the record labels because almost all these bands are independents!

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Zhenya
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 08:46 PM

Here's another one I'd forgotten about. They have both CDs and downloads, including individual tracks.

All Celtic Music.com


They're based in Glasgow, so maybe they'll have more of the more locally known artists that you're looking for. Just curious, could you give some artist names so we can get an idea of what you're after?

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST,Hopefully helpful
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 09:19 PM

You could always try Celtic Music! Or are they still the bad guys?

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 01:06 AM

Here's another one I'd forgotten about. They have both CDs and downloads, including individual tracks.

All Celtic Music.com


They're based in Glasgow, so maybe they'll have more of the more locally known artists that you're looking for. Just curious, could you give some artist names so we can get an idea of what you're after?

Their downloads are just a miniscule subset of their collection - I think they're just there to whet your appetite.

Here's an example I was looking for today - the group Cran - a couple of songs from the album "The Lover's Ghost".

Another recent example -   Michael O'Suilleabhain, tracks from the album "Becoming".   Also tracks from his album Oilean/Island. Amazon has the Oilean/Island CD for $94.00 (apparently because it's out of print).   

As I was explaining above, one advantage of electronic distribution is that nothing ever has to go out of print.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Zhenya
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 01:44 AM

Those are good examples that support your point, at least about some of the music. I just tried looking for them, and you're right - it doesn't look like you can get individual tracks, and even the CDs are hard to track down, or expensive. (All Celtic Music does have the Cran CD for about $15, but then there's the shipping cost as well.)

I think the situation is that there actualy is a lot available in track form in a general sense, for someone who's just trying to build a library in a particular genre. But if you're looking for specific items, you may not find them. They may show up eventually though - I just got a CD version (and eMusic just got the downloads as well) of a favorite Welsh album I own in LP form. I had assumed it was permanently out of print, so it was a nice surprise when it suddenly surfaced in digital form. It happens.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 06:34 AM

Sorry, Thompson, that wasn't aimed at you. It was an assumption I've made from the original post, and borne out by subsequent ones. (I'm not going to bother trying to work out who 'Guest' is.)

sian

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 08:02 AM

I bet there are a lot of Boston based "Celtic" musicians that don't make it to Ireland very often also.

Subject: RE: Where, How to buy Celtic music?
From: clueless don
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 08:20 AM

Someone else already mentioned Ossian USA - a good source! If you are particularly interested in traditional Irish, you might also try Celtic Grooves.

Don