Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine

Subject: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 01:32 AM

I just recieved my Summer 99 Sing Out and I see two Mudcat folks there mentioned. BSeed and Blessings Barbara. Did I miss anyone else? I'm sure there are more mudfolks there.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 02:18 AM

The same feature mentions Bert and Roger in Baltimore. Blessings Barbara forwarded some parodies to Faith Petric's "Folk Process". Our Mudcat folks are living up to their fine reputations.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 07:52 AM

I'm a Sing Out! Magazine record reviewer (any reviews with the initials MR after them). I also do occasional features for SO. The Fall issue will include my feature on Tom Russell and my "Last Chorus" tribute to Tex König.

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 10:51 AM

Mudjack, are you sure? How did I get in there??

Bert

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 11:29 AM

Bert, I went back looking and it, seems Barbara passed on some parodies to Faith's "Folk Process". It's a nice mention of several mudfolks who had various parody verses. Looks like fine stuff.
Mike, I'll certainly watch for the fall issue, not only to see a mudman inaction, but to see how you treat Tom Russell. I have to presume your'e reviewing "The Man From God Knows Where..."I saw Tom in Portland OR about six weeks ago and he just mesermized me with his great song stories. This new project was much different than I expected since I had brain washed myself with"The Rose of the San Juaquin" As for as his new project goes, all I can say is, "I'm hooked".
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Hasek
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 12:48 PM

You Mud Catters, of all denominations.........are a very talented bunch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 02:47 PM

Mudjack, the Tom Russell feature will have quite a bit on "The Man From God Knows Where," also a lot about Tom's own musical history and thoughts about songwriting.

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 03:07 PM

Good grief. I had no idea. I guess I'd better get on over to Down Home Music to pick up a copy or ten.

--seed

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 03:46 PM

After you pick up a copy at down home music, you should subscribe. It's the next most indispensible resource to folk music after Mudcat.

And Mark Moss, the editor of Sing Out, is also a regular Mudcat contributor.

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: DougR
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 08:10 PM

Charlie:

Would you be good enough to send me the address for Sing Out magazine? I tried to find it in Yahoo but had no luck. I found a site for the gay lesbian chorus, Sing Out in Toronto, though.

I'd appreciate it. It sounds like a good read.

DougR ([e-mail])

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Joe Offer, in Chico today
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 08:13 PM

Hi, doug - can't send you e-mail from the library, so I hope you get this. It's www.singout.org/
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 09:02 PM

Hey, Joe! How's Chico? I graduated from Chico High back in 19 ought 50, as they used to say in Pogo. Went three semesters to Chico State before Pioneer Week did me in (two springs and a fall). That was decades before Playboy named Chico State best social campus in the country (and before Pioneer Week was canceled because too many others, like me, failed to recover from the festivities in time for finals. I got a second eMail the other night saying that of course you had sent me the mudcat messages, you had just thought I was talking about eMail messages. A very weird situation. --seed

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 09:09 PM

Mike,

Ya know, that song by Tom Russell about the American in Morocco who goes with the the Blue Men into the desert where they cut out his tongue & parade him around from place to place attached to a tether so he can dance for people and make cash etc. for them---well, that has to be one of the most amazing songs I've ever heard. Fantastic!! (And I say that meaning that it operates on a mind-boggling fantasy level---pure film noir.) "Blue Wing" and "When Haley's Comet Hit The Ground" (about the last days of Bill Haley) are amazing too. He is the writer that pulls me into the song better than any other writin' today. His creations are actually literary song-tales and,like a real fine novels, they have a way of taking you away. Say hello to Tom for me; we did a radio show together at Western Illinois U. several years ago before I knew what a grand writer he was---at least until he did his "Gallo De Cielo" (the one about a fighting cock). So many incandescent songs flow from him.

Tom wrote an article in the issue of Sing Out that had a feature on yours truly by Scott Alarik. As it turns out, that issue (from what I've heard) was the best selling issue ever for them. I'd be proud, but it wasn't 'cause I was in it. It was because NANCI GRIFFITH was on the cover---and the Griffith story was the article Tom wrote.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Frank of Toledo
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 09:32 PM

Nancy and I had the pleasure of spending two days with Tom Russell and his guitarist Andrew Hardin last month June 23rd and 24th. He did a concert for us at the local church and the audience was so taken in by Tom and his story songs. Art you're so right. He weaves a story that takes you in and holds you spell bound till the end. I had the pleasure, and boy was I ever nervous, to sing Blue Wing with him and Andrew as the last encore of the evening. I'll never forget that. And also Art, thanks for the help with the "Cherokee Queen", I had Utah Phillips sing it to me over the phone. And Mike, I'm looking forward to your story on Tom. I believe "A Man From God Knows Where is one the of the greatest concept albums, I've heard......... I look forward to my Sing out ever quarter, and recommend it to everyone who loves music........

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 10:52 PM

Art,

That song you're referring to is called "Blood Oranges." It is a pretty amazing/scary song.

I agree totally with your comments about Tom. In my opinion he's one of the all-time greats.

I also write CD reviews for the Montreal Gazette. They have a policy there (which I voted against) of rating all the reviews on a scale of X/10. So far, Tom's "The Man From God Knows Where" is the only album I've ever rated at 10/10.

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 11:29 PM

Art,

Now you have my curiosity up. I went looking for an audio sample of Blood Oranges and found Tom's website. This will take you to a really neat background thingy on The Man From God Knows Where

I can really relate to his ancestral stuff. I've been looking, on the internet, for over a year to try to find oout who my gggrandparents were in Nova Scotia. This week, after two days on a new service, I found them and beyond! Back to 1745.

As to Blood Oranges..I shall now go check to DT, as I should have done before this, but then I wouldn't have found Tom's page, etc.

I didn't know he co-wrote Navajo Rug! It's one of my all time favourites! I don't have enough time or memory for all the stuff I learn from you guys!

Thanks,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Sourdough
Date: 29 Jul 99 - 11:46 PM

katlaughing: You wrote -

"I didn't know he co-wrote Navajo Rug! It's one of my all time favourites!"

Who are you referring to? I can't find a mention of Navajo Rug in the upper part of this thread. I thought Ian Tyson wrote Navajo Rug. I really like that song a lot.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 12:12 AM

Sorry, SD, Tom Russell co-wrote it with Ian.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 01:35 AM

I saw Ian Tyson last in concert last year and he said Tom wrote the song and he(Ian) wrote the Chorus. When Tom sang it, he verified the colaboration and said Ian added the right feel to the song with his Aye yie yies. No doubt a fine song. Whiskey toast is rye bread toast. I think I found that piece of info on the Mudcat...(?)
Art.... you spoke to my heart in your posting on this thread. Tom has renewed my interest in story songs.
About Sing Out..... I assumed everyone into music subscribed to Sing Out. Well,...don't they?
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 09:39 AM

about Sing Out...would there be any interest in an auction of some early issues for the benefit of Mudcat?..Like Vol.1,#2 or #3...(I could have had almost all the early ones, but simply did not have much cash the day I found them, so I got assorted pieces..)...

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 09:48 AM

balladeer was looking for these recently. Don't know if he checks here.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: DougR
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 12:41 PM

Thanks, Joe, it did get it and am going to subscribe.

DougR

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 12:50 PM

Good idea, several years ago I would be stalking you for them, but I'm in the downsizing mode and getting rid of "stuff". When the Auction format finally gets off the ground I think we'll see a lot of neat things happen. You can throw it out there on it's own thread and see what happens. I recently went to Harmony Central site and put up my entire collection of Pickin' and Frets magazines for sale.If anyone on this site is interested, I'll cut you a much better deal and forward a percentage to the Big Cat. Bill D.... I think those are some real treasures you have there and offering them for Mudcat Auction is commendable.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bert
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 03:32 PM

If anyone has ANY spare music books of any kind please give Dick the first choice.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 04:50 PM

Bert,

I am always picking up old school music books at library sales and such. I usually give them to bet, but sometimes there are dupes. They quite often are very old, for the States, and have really quaint old songs in them. Would that be something Dick would be interested in? I'd just send them to him if so.

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mudjack
Date: 30 Jul 99 - 05:12 PM

Dick Greenhaus, I presume? You bet.I'll write him on the side.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 05:59 PM

It seemed to me it was time to revive this thread. As I read various postings here on Mudcat I get the impression that just about every mudcatter would enjoy reading Sing Out! and therefore ought to subscribe. You might want to check out our website at www.Singout.org to accomplish that. You won't be sorry.

People who haven't seen Sing Out! in a while might not know that we now publish a CD with each issue which contains a full performance of every song that we've printed the melody and lyrics for in the issue. These CDs are delightful to listen to even if you don't want to learn the song. The four CDS alone are worth the price of the annual subscription.

I started reading Sing Out! nearly 40 years ago when I was learning my first D chord and I've kept every issue I ever acquired. Most of my repertoire has appeared in its pages at some time or other and it has drawn my attention to most of the worthwhile "folk music" I have ever heard. It has remained important to me, and enjoyable to read from rank beginner to grizzled "expert" status.

Since I am now a member of its Board of Trustees (a position which is not only unpaid but requires a significant contribution) I suppose this message might be viewed as suspect. Suspect my motives if you like, but try the magazine out, you won't be disappointed.

Any one else have some testimony to offer?

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:08 PM

I might as well jump in here. The two best sources for music and related info are The Mudcat Cafe and Sing Out!

I have been reading Sing Out! for a few years now but I do not ever see any mention of the web site in the magazine. I have heard rumors of a conflict between the two. This would be sad to see. If there are any readers out there who can influence things please make sure that the website and the magazine work together in the interests of the music we love.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:21 PM

I am not aware of any conflict between Mudcat and Sing Out! I am proud to be involved with both.

I really don't recall whether Sing Out! has ever mentioned Mudcat, but we do not usually write about e-communities. We write about Folk Music broadly defined, i.e., its performance, history and practice and we review more "Folk" CDs (with very knowledgeable reviewers) than anyone else.

I second Naemanson's sentiments.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 06:49 PM

Sing Out is indeed a fine magazine. They balance trad and modern folk pretty well. I give credit to Annie Hills' hubby, MARK MOSS, (S.O.'s editor), for their excellence in this new century and the latter part of the old one. The new inclusion of a CD with the songs from each issue is a wonderful added perk (for a nominal extra fee). I've read this rag since the late 50's and, along with Old Time Herald, these are the only magazines I want to read regularly now that I'm out of the folk loop.

And to speak of Mudcatters in evidence in the magazine, I've got to mention the fine column wriiten in every issue by old friend and once-in-a-while Mudcatter, Dan Keding. Dan's storytelling column is always a fine read. And Dan himself is one of the premier storytellers from the U.S.A. My favorite column is by Canadian, Ian Robb. I'd like more traditional content, but I know the good coverage of the best of what I sometimes facetiously call the navel-gazer singer-songwriters will appeal to so very many here at this site.

I can't believe everyone here isn't already a subscriber. Through the years, everybody I knew always was.

And while we are talking about Mudcatters in the current issue (winter 2001):

I'M THERE TOO ! Mark Moss asked for, got, and printed my personal reminiscence / obituary of the late, great, John Hartford from when we hung out on the Mississippi River the decade I played & told tales on the S.T.R. Julia Belle Swain (steamboat) and the riverboat TWILIGHT..

Try it; you'll like it !!!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:03 PM

And here is the Sing Out website.

I notice there's a mailing list discussion forum. I tend to avoid these, because I get confused enough keeping on top of my email anyway, and I find the Mudcat forum much easier to keep track of. But presumably there are people who prefer the mailing list approach, and I'd imagine there'd be Mudcatters who were in this.

My feeling is that one way and another folk activities happening through the net are a significant part of the folk scene that deserves being taken into account in print publications. I haven't seen a copy of Sing Out in years, because I tend to pick up things in shops rather than go in for subscriptions - but when I did see it, it was and away the one I felt most comfortable with. I get fed up with the bitchy review of records and fan-interview approach of Folk Roots, and the local magazines are useful, but are limited in their approach.

I'd like to see a reciprocal link for Sing Out and the Mudcat on the respective websites. Symbolic, but useful as well.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 07:46 PM

I too, subscribe to Sing Out! and would do so even if I didn't read it just to support them. Sing Out! has a history that can't just be discarded and does a great job of collecting songs a reporting on artists and sources.

I was going to mention Art's great article in the current issue but I see Art beat me to it. That alone is worth the price of the magazine.

Sing Out! has pioneered the teaching of folk music and traditional playing styles. Thirty years ago they started binding sound sheets—flexible vinly records—into each issue. Now, as Bennet said, they make CDs available—a little more money but they last much longer.

Years ago in Chicago we had a group that today might be called a song circle. We called it The Friends of Sing Out! and, among other things, produced the occasional benefit concert to help out the magazine. I think Art performed at most of those and Pete Seeger came to perform for at least one of them.

Sing Out! also sponsors a free listserv through Yahoo. Lots of stupid ads but at least Sing Out! doesn't have to pay to have it. Some Mudcatters post there but I've met people through the Sing Out! listserv that I've never seen on Mudcat.

Please support Sing Out!, you won't be sorry.

      - Mark

NB: Now I'll have to go check but I seem to recall that Sing Out! does mention Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: WyoWoman
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:10 PM

Done. I used to subscribe, but I let it lapse. Same as with Mother Earth News. But I came home to Mother (in a pretty major way) and now I'll be coming back to Sing Out.

Thanks for refreshing the thread and getting this up on my radar, Bennett. Good job. Want to serve on any other boards of directors?

Best, WyoWoman

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: bigchuck
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:36 PM

I seem to recall that both the mudcat and the DT were mentioned by Mark Moss in his editor's notes a few years ago. I think that's how I found the 'cat in the first place.
Sandy

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 08:37 PM

Aye, Mark, good times those. The Sing Out benefit I was on had Marjorie Guthrie and Art Rosenbaum and Phil Ochs joined on a couple o' songs by his old college roomie from the U. of Ohio, Jim Glover. (remember Jim and Jean? Their version of Ochs' "Crucifixion" was stupendous.)---oh yeah, Malvina Reynolds and Ola Belle Reed were on that show too.

I know Pete Seeger was in Chicago for the benefit for MICHAEL COONEY after Michael was hurt so terribly in a crash with a drunk driver. It was Me and Pete and Steve Goodman and Cindy Mangsen. And as a final song we all did "Mama Don't 'Low". Bob Gibson came on for that song---as did Corky Siegel and Jethro Burns and Allan Damron from Texas. My three verses in that song were the musical saw, the nose flute and the jew's harp. Mr. Seeger had terrible hoarseness that day so Stevie and Jethro and some of us were out there with him for his set. And he was just amazing, as usual. It was such a kick. He'd play a verse on his banjo, sing two or three words, gesture to the audience to join in, and the audience would finish the song for him while Pete played and whistled along. And he got three encores !! Just great.

That benefit was at Stages Music Hall on North Clark St --- past Wrigley Field. Emily Friedman's Come For To Sing Magazine was behind it. That was November 4, 1979. Wow ! Twenty-two years ago ! Seems like yesterday.

Thanks for reminding me.

By the way, folks, a fellow nbamed Clay Eals from Seattle is working on what will be, I'm damn sure, a fine biography of STEVE GOODMAN. Look for it one o' these years...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 09:11 PM

Would SING OUT be interested in a joint fundraiser with Mudcat? I have a HOT one in mind. E-me for details. Mention MUDCAT in the subject line, OK?

~Susan

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:27 PM

Art, I'm sorry to say, I missed the Michael Cooney benefit in 1979. We left Chicago in 1976. I do remember the Sing Out! benefit you mention in which you performed. I got to meet Marjorie Guthrie too. That was a big thrill for me. You're right about Jim and Jean, gee that brings back memories. Yes, and Art Rosenbaum—I knew him a little in Iowa City as well. He and Al Murphy did a very nice old time album together. I still have my copy. Al and Aleta have reformed their band Harvest Home. I got to hear them together a little bit at the annual Old Fiddlers' Picnic in October. I think it's going to be a good band.

There was another Sing Out! benefit at the Quiet Knight that Pete headlined. Our band was asked to play as well. Funny, I can't recall who else played. I remember Bob Gibson playing a benefit at the Quite Knight but I can't remember if it was for Sing Out! or the one for Eddie B. with Studs Terkel as emcee.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: GUEST,SINSULL
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:37 PM

I subscribe and also read (teary-eyed) Art Thieme's remembrances of John Hartford. My first stop is the book reviews...can't help myself.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 10:43 PM

Interesting to read about the forthcoming biography of Steve Goodman, Art. One of my great regrets is that I never saw him perform live.

Harvey Andrews, who visits here as a Guest sometimes has a great Steve Goodman story. Hopefully he will recount it one of these days.

Murray

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:21 PM

Mark, I don't remember one for Ed B. Wasn't that one for Sing Out too...the one at the Quiet Knight with Pete? Ed Balchowsky was the caretaker of the Quiet Knight and he and Pete did a few songs together that night---pretty strange--Eddie couldn't hear Pete on the monitor. They did "Freiheit" and "Peat Bog Soldiers" from the International and Lincoln Brigades. Eddie on piano and Pete with his longneck. Hadn't ever played together before. Ed hitting discords on the piano with his stump. WFMT has tapes of that concert. I wasn't on that show I don't think but I was there. I know I've talked about Ed Balchowsky here I'm sure. [Folks, a forum search should find that probably. He was a vet of the Spanish Civil War. Lost an arm in a big battle on the Ebro River. Was a concert pianist before that. Got on morphine after getting it for pain then. He was a friend but... We were chasing the same lady around '65. I have a short docu-video about him---made after he died.]

Ah, nostalgia. ;-)

Art

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:31 PM

I love reading these reminisces, folks. I am going to subscribe straight away. Two of my treasures are my copies of The Collected Reprints from Sing Out!. I have both of them. I guess the first one is now out of print. It covers Volumes 1 - 6 from 1959 to 1964. Then there is the second one which covers 1964 to 1973. Are there any plans to do the rest in a collected version? These are invaluable as a resource for me.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:31 PM

Been gettin' Sing Out since I was 15 years old. Much more than just a magzine to me...it was an introduction to a "lifestyle". They were very nice to take "Birth of Robin Hood" from my Folk-Legacy CD "Lifeline" and print it. Good folks from the git-go.

Rick

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:38 PM

Mr. MacLeod,

It'd be nice to hear your friend's tale. We've had good threads about Steve here -- a while ago. I still miss him. Always will.

Mr. Sin...,

It was a pleasure to do that short piece. And an honor to be asked. I was lucky to know John also. By the time this issue came out John's passing was old news so I thought some light, even funny bits would be appropriate. Glad you enjoyed it.

Mark,----I think I've got some o' that M.C. benefit on cassette somewhere. I hope it still plays.

Art

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Nov 01 - 11:40 PM

Art, your memory is very good. Eddie Balchowsky did play—beautifully, with one hand and a stump—on the same Sing Out! benefit with Pete. There was another, later, benefit for Eddie B. with Studds Terkel as emcee and most of the living members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in attendance. They all got on stage and sang some of the old songs. The money from that concert went to Eddie—he was trying to get straight (again) and everyone wanted to help out. It seems to me that Bruce Phillips recorded something about Eddie. Now I'll have to go look that up.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:29 AM


Basic Folk Library PermaThread™ lists three books published by Sing Out!. My copies are well worn:

"The Collected Reprints from Sing Out!" Volumes 1-6, 1959-1964 and Volumes 7-12, 1964-1973. From Sing Out! Publications

BLOOD, PETER and PATTERSON, ANNIE "Rise Up Singing" (Sing Out! Publications, 19??)
Lyrics only for a variety of more than 1,200 great songs --- pop, hymns, gospel, rounds, sea shanties, folk songs, blues. Sing Out! Publications Page here.

(Both of the above links for publications got to http://www.singout.org/sopubs.html)

My recent magazine/membership renewal form shows:

Sing Out! Corporation
512 East Fourth Street (omit street address for most mail, including subscriptions)
P.O. Box 5460
Bethlehem, PA 18015-0460

Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]
Web: www.singout.org

subscriptions (U.S. and Canada only), phone    1-888-SING-OUT

Subscribing Members receive magazine only: $25 for 1 yr, $45 for 2 yrs, $60 for 3 yrs
Basic Members receive magazine and 4 CDs: $50 for 1 yr, $90 for 2 yrs, $120 for 3 yrs.
Sustaining Members (50% tax deductible) receive magazine and 4 CDs: $100/yr.
In Canada: add $5.00 per year.
Overseas: add $18.00 per year (airdrop delivery).

Persons subscribing for 2 years or more at any level have been eligible to receive a "sampler" CD - limited to supplies on hand. Ask when you call.

John

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:21 AM

I am very glad to have revived this thread. It looks like we may see a favorable blip in our subscriptions, which we can always use. Thanks for the support.

Several people responding here have asked me questions which might call for personal replies, except that I don't understand the workings of the Mudcat internal e-mail system so I will briefly respond here.

WyoWoman - Depending upon the organization involved I might be willing to serve on other Boards. It is best to contact me about that sort of thing on my personal e-mail: [e-mail] or at my law office: Reitman Parsonnet, P.C., 744 Broad Street, Suite 1807, Newark, N.J. 07102 telephone: [phone].

Wysiwyg - Sing Out! is always interested in participating in benefits, joint or otherwise. Other than our good will, artist contacts and ability to promote the benefit to our subscription list, however, we don't have a lot of resources to devote to the actual production of benefits. For this we are largely dependent upon particular Board members or other volunteers. I am probably as appropriate a person at Sing Out! as any to contact about putting together a benefit, so please feel free to get in touch with me at the above address to share your idea about a joint Mudcat/Sing Out! benefit.

Big Mick - Because demand for the "Collected Reprints" volumes is quite low, we have trouble keeping them in print. The capital cost of new press runs can be prohibitive when it takes a long time to sell through a pressing. I am not certain of the current status of the particular volume you seek but, even when we are "out of print" for trade purposes (since we cannot supply enough copies for the distributor to offer it to stores) we often have a few copies available that can be purchased directly from Sing Out! JohnInKansas was kind enough to copy all of our contact information onto this thread directly above this posting.

Speaking of "out-of-print" books, Sing Out! now operates Legacy Books (formerly of Hatboro, Pa.) and is trying to expand its services as a vendor of hard-to-find "Folk Music" books from other publishers, in addition to the books that we publish ourselves. The Sing Out Corporation is now considerably larger than the magazine, although that is still our best-known and largest enterprise.

Mudcatters might also be interested in our extensive hard-copy archive of books and recordings which is available to Sing Out! members at our Bethlehem, Pa. offices.

Keep those new, renewed, and reincarnated subscriptions coming in!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:05 PM

Bennett, e-mail sent.

~S~

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 12:11 PM

Mr. Thieme - It's Ms. SINSULL!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 12:27 AM

Ms S.---So sorry. I didn't know---but now I do. Nice to meet you. Come here often? Can I buy you a scotch? ;-)

Art

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 12:44 AM

Jeez, and I get vilifiesd for starting a thread suggesting gender clarification ..........................:-)

Murray

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 12:50 AM

Hi, Bennet - When I was earning a living, I took the plunge and got a lifetime membership to Sing Out! Glad I did it then, because I can't afford it now....

I see in the magazine that members have access to the Sing Out! Resource Center (SORC). How can a California guy such as myself make use of the Resource Center, and what's there for me to use?

I would guess that most U.S. Mudcatters read Sing Out!, so I think I can say that you're among friends here. Whenever there's a particularly interesting article in Sing Out!, there's usually a good discussion of it here. Shelly Posen, current guru of the Sing Out! "Songfinder" column, makes regular mention of Mudcat - but I think we're better songfinders. Holly Tannen, previous mistress of the "Songfinder" column, used to come here for help when she got questions she couldn't answer.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:25 PM

Bennet, thanks for posting so much information, very interesting and helpful. If one were to send in a subscription, now, for a Christmas present for someone in the USA, do you know if the current issue would be sent out in time for the recipient to receive it for the holiday?

Art, et al, thanks so much for the remembrances. I love reading them!

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: raredance
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 08:22 AM

Let me add my 2 cents about the SingOUt CDs. Wonderful! They used to have a system where you could call up a phone number, punch in the magic code and listen to a certain song from the current issue. It was so awkward and musically unsatisfiying. The CDs are a brilliant inovation.

rich r

Subject: Rise Up Singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:54 PM

Say, Bennet - has there been any progress on the second volume of the Rise Up Singing songbook? Last I heard, it was stalled by problems getting copyright permissions. Can you give us a progress report?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:33 PM

It's been a few days since I have checked into this site and a number of questions have built up. I will see what I can do to answer them.

Joe Offer - Sing Out's staff is rather limited, so the amount of help available by telephone varies. Whenever possible, staff tries to service member requests in the manner of a research librarian. What is principally there is a great number of "folk music" books and recordings (thousands of them). We retain a copy of everything sent to us for review over the years, so we have many hard to find items. Indexing is not all that it should be but we are working to improve it. If we had enough memberships, we could support a librarian with computer skills who could do all of this right. We may be starting a fund-raising campaign for this specific purpose if we thought it would be successful. As it is, it is now somewhat catch-as-catch can and it is best if you can get to Bethlehem, Pa. to use it in person.

As to Rise Up Singing, it is true that we are working on a "second volume" and are in the process of obtaining clearances. This is a very big job, since we are presently working with a list of about 1200 songs. We are doing this as quickly as we can since there seems to be an unmet demand for the new book. I cannot give you an estimated publication date, however. Once we publish the improved version of Rise Up Singing itself, which should be soon, the "second volume" will be our highest publishing priority.

I have more to write on this, but a client calls. I will return.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:50 PM

You have my total and complete permission to include anything of mine you want to use. There. That should speed things up.

Is this second book to be called THE NEW TESTAMENT since the first book was treated as gospel in song circles where questions of folkal correctness were involved?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Barbara
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:51 AM

Wal, Art, mebbe they'll do all the un-PC songs they left out the first time, hey? Sure.
But to add to the unsolicited testimonials, I also have subscribed for longer than I can remember, wait a minute, that might not be long these days... and love the diverse information and wonderful songs I get there.
We all sang "Uncle Dave's Grace" for Thanksgiving this year (a Lou and Peter Berryman song) because it was featured in the last Sing Out!
Great source of wonderful songs, and I've been known to feed Faith Mudcat parodies on occasion.(Faith Petric writes the Parody column in the mag).
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:46 PM

A couple of days later, I am back to continue responding to the various questions raised. I have attached a recent e-mail from Mark Moss (Sing Out's Executive Director) on "Rise Up Singing" and its planned second volume, tentatively titled "Spread Your Wings."

By the way, this comes from Sing Out's own listserve/discussion forum which mudcatters might enjoy (see info following Mark's message):

At 08:24 PM 12/3/2001, Robert Bledsoe wrote: >I have heard, read, or dreamed perhaps.... that Rise Up Singing is being >upgraded or revised... did I really read that or was it a dream? Any >information available?

Rise Up Singing is being upgraded. The songs will stay the same, but we're incorporating corrections compiled over the years, fixing the typography a bit, and adding "Track numbers" to make the new Teaching Discs (CDs) easier to work with. No exact release date is set for the revised edition (we're a small, stressed staff ), but list members will be the first to know when the release is imminent.

At that time, we hope to make a slightly larger Leader's Edition available as well. No price is set for that, yet. Again ... details to the list as soon as I have 'em.

We are *also* working on a sequel to Rise Up (working title "Spread Your Wings"). This is a *WAYS* off, but we do have a phenomenal list of another 1200+ songs for the book. The permissions process is on-going ... and it's the next big project *after* the "upgraded" RUS.

_____________________________________ Mark D. Moss / Sing Out! P.O. Box 5460 (for UPS: 512 E. 4th St.) Bethlehem, PA 18015 Ph: 610-865-5366 x203 Fx: 610-865-5129 (eFax: 413-403-9883) Toll Free (orders only!): 888-SING-OUT E-mail: [e-mail] Web: http://www.singout.org

Community email addresses: Post message: [e-mail] Subscribe: [e-mail] Unsubscribe: [e-mail] List owner: [e-mail]

************************

Now its me again. I should mention that the teaching CD's are a big improvement over the Teaching Tapes for Rise Up Singing. The recordings are the same, but it is now very easy to find the song that you want.

On to other questions asked above.

katlaughing- We try our best to fill all orders promptly, and I believe that our next issue is presently at the printers and should be received by subscribers before Years end, and hopefully before Christmas. I suggest that you subscribe by phone or by our web site with a credit card. If you call, you can ask the person who answers directly. If you start the subscription with our most recent previous issue (rather than the one now at the printers) I would be very surprised if we couldn't get it there by Christmas.

Legacy Books - In addition to our resource center we also now operate Legacy Books (formerly of Hatboro, Pa.) This makes us a source for many difficult to find and out of print books relating to "folk music," above and beyond our own publications. The Legacy Books catalogue is now on-line at the Sing Out web site, complete with a secure server for credit card orders, a shopping cart, and a search capacity. I plugged in the word "Morris" and we had five publications for sale relating to Morris Dancing. This is brand new for us. Be the first on your block to use it!

Barbara- Although your PC comment is obviously offered in a light-hearted way, it is a criticism that we at Sing Out! have frequently heard over the years, so I will respond seriously. The editors at Sing Out! do not have a political litmus test either for the inclusion of songs in the magazine or in our publications. However, we certainly try not to print songs that are racist or sexist if we can help it (unless perhaps in the context of an article to which the song would be relevant).

That being said, however, Sing Out! has always been pretty clear in its general orientation with the left and nobody should pretend otherwise. We are much more likely to publish a good topical song from the left than from the right, but we have also given good coverage to the likes of Merle Haggard over the years.

Sing Out! was initially formed to fill the void left by the collapse of the People's Songs organization. People's Songs was associated with the Communist Left, and Sing Out! was certainly viewed by the McCarthyites as no different. Among Sing Out's founders were Paul Robeson, Howard Fast, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and others who were subjected to vicious red-baiting. For most of its first twenty years, Sing Out's Editor was Irwin Silber, who also edited and wrote for other left-wing publications and was not one to hide his politics. We had many critics who felt that he made Sing Out! too political at various times.

Perhaps we still have such critics, but under Mark Moss' editorship (and he has now served in that position longer than any previous editor, including Irwin Silber) the magazine's politics are not nearly as prominent as they were in earlier years. No reader would confuse today's Sing Out! with a political magazine, nor do I believe any objective reader could accuse us of dogmatism or of following some particular political line. We nevertheless continue to include current topical song in every issue and the topical songs we choose generally reflect a left-wing point of view.

All music has politics, whether acknowledged or otherwise. I think Sing Out! is proud of its history and politics and views left-wing political music as, if anything, a core element of what has come to be known as "folk music" in this country and around the world. We are also more likely to to think a political song that does a good job stating a point of view that we agree with is a song worth printing than a political song that we don't like because of our disagrrement with its message. If that amounts to an undue "PC" attitude, we stand convicted. It's better to be politically correct than politically incorrect.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:02 PM

Here's something cheap, but would be a vast improvement for the second edition of RUS -- add some blank pages. It is a real pain pasting in other songs, and deciding which pages of RUS are to be sacrificed. Actually, I lie, pasting over the incredibly dopy MEN's section was easy, but then what?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:25 PM

Good idea, Pete, but even so you'd eventually run out of blank pages. How about printing a version of Rise Up Singing that can be inserted into a loose-leaf binder?

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: GUEST,MAG at work
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:38 PM

I can't hardly read the thing; how 'bout a large-type edition, so I won't have to photocopy a song on "enlarge" anymore."

MA

maybe if I can swing early retirement, I'll come be your librarian. I'd give you such a deal!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:39 PM

The new Leader's Edition of Rise Up Singing will be large type. As far as blank pages are concerned - I suggest carrying a seperate notebook of your own formation. Rise Up is already large enough. Moreover, Rise Up began as Peter Blood's personal scrapbook of lyrics. If yours works out as well maybe you will be able to get us or someone else to publish it some day. With any lick, "Spread Your Wings" will have a lot of what you want when it eventually appears.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: GUEST,MAG again
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:55 PM

Yah, some of us remember that white spiralbound without a lick of publisher's info, distributed it seemed largely by Quakers ...

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:14 AM

Refresh, esp. for some of Art Thieme's postings...good stuff!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for the refresh, katlaughing -- I never saw any of this great stuff before.

I bought and read every issue of Sing Out! for several years, around '63 to '65 or so; it was the source of much of my earliest education as a guitar player and songster, and also an important part of my introduction to leftism and bohemianism in general.

I had long since forgotten about it, and had no idea it was still being published. I suppose that proves that I'm not a true folkie these days. As a listener and fan, my musical interests include a pretty wide range of "roots" genres, including stuff as far out as modern jazz, jam-band rock, world music, etc. As a performer, however, I'm a strictly acoustic type, capable of using no more than 5 or 6 chords per key -- pretty folkish, in other words. So, I suppose I have no excuse not to resume my relationship with Sing Out!