absolutely beautiful guitar work

Subject: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:38 AM

Holy Cow, Holy Cow
is this beautiful

Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring - J.S.Bach

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:40 PM

to be honest, olddude, it doesn't do anything for me, and this Bach composition is one of my all time favourite pieces.

I just have an aversion to the ethereal aura which seems to emanate from all Windham Hill productions, it ain't my cup of tea.

I loved Leo Kottke's version in Open G, recorded way back when, but my current favourite, by a guitarist, who to be frank, has more talent in his little finger than David Qualey has in his whole body, is this, the best version of "Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring" you will ever hear

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:44 PM

Rob's guitar work is stunning, and he's an incredibly versatile player as well. Started playing jazz and pop standards with older, seasoned musicians when he was very young. Also a great correspondent and valued contributor to the AG Discussion Forum.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:47 PM

Murray
I will check out your link, I love this song, wish I could play it. Maybe I will sit down and try to pick it out

Dan

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:52 PM

Murray
WOW ,,, you are right WOW can Rob play ... that is the best I have ever heard ... WOW thank you

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:55 PM

I love David Qualey! David's arrangement of this tune was the inspiration for George Winston's much loved piano recording. And as far as the Leo Kottke comparison goes, I would say that David has written far more interesting guitar music than Leo's bluesy ramblings!Listen to David's tune Santa Cruz and tell me that Leo has the talent to compose something as great as that!

Santa Cruz -David Qualey

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:57 PM

Anyone else got any other versions they want to share, what a beautiful guitar piece huh ...

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:03 PM

I consider them both exquisite in quite different ways ~ Mr Qualey struck me at first as perhaps trying a bit too hard for purity ~ perhaps a touch of what the late John Betjeman summed up as Ghastly·Good·Taste ~ but won me over with its absolute perfection eventually. The Rob Bourassa, in far more exuberant style, was also one of most delightful things I have ever listened to.

Let us just be grateful the world has room for them both.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:12 PM

@unnamed GUEST, I just checked out David Qualey's "Santa Cruz" and it's very pleasant, but I would suggest that Leo Kottke has any number of compositions which could stand right up there with it.

I don't want to knock David Qualey, he is a very competent guitarist, but imo he does lack that touch of je ne sais quoi which separates the greats (of whom Rob Bourassa is one) from the just very good.

And is it my imagination or does David Qualey's arrangement of JESU JOMD kick of with the opening passage from "Cavatina" (Theme fom the Deer Hunter) ?

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:22 PM

My band arranged it as a slip jig -- it's the second tune in "The Thingama Jigs".

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM

olddude, I know you like a bit of ragtime, so here is an incredible version of The Entertainer (I don't think Rob Bourassa looks at the fretboard once throughout the piece) and an equally phenomenal version of Maple Leaf Rag, by Takashi Hamada. It doesn't get any better than this, ragtime -wise IMHO

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: JedMarum
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 03:46 PM

WOW - Olddude you are right on! This is beautiful!

Thanks for posting the link ....

such elegant, smooth and lovely playing and simply beautiful piece.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:00 PM

Murray, as it happens, David Qualey's recording was not a Windham Hill effort. He recorded the album for a German label, and Windham Hill were so impressed that they decided to release in the States on their label.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:06 PM

Here's a link to Rob's version.

Rob's Joy!

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:22 PM

Thanks, it's beautiful. Funny thing - I liked it better when I slid my chair six feet from my computer. At the keyboard, I was too close to the speakers, and I 'heard too much.'

Six feet away, it mellowed.

Thanks for posting.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM

Murray
the ragtime was incredible, I am now a huge fan .... wow

I agree with you guys, both of these fine musicians are so far above me that I could only hope to do a tenths, so beautiful the guitar work ... amazing

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 06:08 PM

Rick foster doing Jesu
Jesu Rick Foster

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:14 PM

Nice, but the guy who can really play it is HERE.

I've actually heard him play it better than in this video, however. He tends to get a bit heavy-handed here.

Then—I listened to Rick Foster (olddude's post) and remembered that Parkening says that Foster is who he got the arrangement from!!

I've heard Parkening do it live in concert, I have his all Bach CD, and I bought a folio of Bach pieces that he plays. Absolute killers to play, but he makes them sound like a walk through the park.

I tried the arrangement of Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring (Foster's) in the folio and found out what "difficult" really means!

But Parkening has an easier arrangement in his manual, The Christopher Parkening Guitar Method - Volume 1: The Art and Technique of the Classical Guitar Book/CD Pack. It's a whole lot easier than the one in the Bach folio, but it still sounds darned good. Even though it's a supplementary piece in a "beginner's" manual, it still takes a bit of work to wrap your fingers around it.

Well worth it, though!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:16 PM

By the way, have you heard Pete Seeger play this on the 5-string banjo? It's in his "Goofing-Off Suite."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:34 PM

When I saw the opening post and went to the link, the very first thing that crossed my mind is..."These guys ought to see my friend, Rob's take on this"

...and then I saw the link in the very next post.

Rob is an amazing guitar player. And humble as the day is long. He's been a professional musician since his pre-teen years -- starting out playing banjo professionally. Later, he taught himself on guitar with the same analytical method by which he'd taught himself banjo.

I went to his first workshop up at Elderly Instruments. He started out the workshop by simply taking requests -- any song. The participants started by requesting jazz standards, but Rob said, "You know, as long as I've been playing professionally, I probably have a arrangement for all these -- I'd be expected to be able to play them. Ask me for songs you don't think I'd have played before"

And so, warming to the game, we started asking for kid's songs, hard rock songs, novelty songs. If Rob knew the melody, he could play it -- completely harmonized too. He be mid song and ask someone to call out a key. He'd change immediately to that key. He would change styles -- chet, travis, freddie green, he'd play anything any way.

He's the most phenomenally versatile instrumentalist I've ever known.

Perhaps the most amazing demonstration he gave was that he has the ability to pick out notes as fast as he can "scat" them. Meaning, there is no delay between the speed of his thought and the ability to find that note on the fretboard. I've never seen anything like it in my life. I've seen guitarists who will scat and play at the same time -- but always pre-arranged.

And, again, you'll never meet a more humble man than Rob Bourassa.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: John Hardly
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 09:40 PM

review

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:26 PM

well you folks certainly pointed me to some amazing artists. My gosh I like this song on a guitar in the hands of a master ... terrific stuff folk ... just terrific

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:36 PM

I love the classical guitar sound,
only for laughs I post this, my pathetic attempt at playing a classical guitar , about as complicated at this old dude can do LOL

good grief
california dreamin

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Beer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:47 PM

Yes it is good but I certainly have heard better. However, a great find Dan and the thing that impressed me more than the guitar playing was the sound of the guitar. Now that is one fine instrument.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: KT
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:53 PM

They're all wonderful, but this is the one that really amazes me!!

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: KT
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 10:56 PM

Hey! How'd I mess that up? Anyway, You've gotta see this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiNFB213t5k

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Beer
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:03 PM

Wow!! kt.
That was very good. But can he sing????
Just kidding.
Adrien

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 11:08 PM

How wonderful is that KT
OH MY GOD , the guitar is bigger than he is and how he can play
that is PRICELESS !!

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: KT
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM

Yeah, Adrien and olddude. He is something, isn't he? He must be several lifetimes old!!!!!

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 04:24 PM

Rob Bourassa's rendition of "Jesu" is just gorgeous! Wow! Man, I would love to be able to play like that.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: gnu
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 04:35 PM

Sungha just blows me away.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:06 PM

Rob has 15 fingers I swear, I never heard anything like that before. Breathtaking is the only word for it ... and so clean I mean it is perfect ... amazing talent ... speechless

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:07 PM

I honestly wouldn't have recognised this at the beginning. The first GLIMPSE of what it is only hit me at the first line of the normally sung bit. He seems very talented but it's an awful arrangement of a beautiful piece.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM

Well after listening to Robs version I have to say Robs is far better.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM

I don't usually contribute to threads like this as you generally just get people with strong opinions either way expressing strong views.

But actually the reactions to Qualey's, as opposed to Bourassa's and Foster's, version may be rather illuminating.

For some people, myself included, Bach's genius is expressed in the counterpoint between the treble and bass melodies. For us this is where the whole beauty of the piece lies, and any version which omitted one or the other must by definition be lacking.

Bourassa and Foster both maintain the relationship in their versions, and so the only real question is whether the performance expresses the necessary flow. This is actually technically impossible on the guitar because some notes are inevitably damped because fingers have to be moved before the required duration is reached - so maybe there's a case for saying don't bother to try. But most of us can forgive a few small hiccoughs because the showmanship of achieving 90% of both melodies throughout, while also handling the changes in temo on a six string guitar is simply staggering.

Qualey, by contrast, maintains the upper melody but does not attempt the lower. I rather like his change in time signature and emphasis, and the open tunings are pretty, but for me the piece doesn't hold water. All the tension is gone, and the musicality is regularly subverted because there are no 'throughs' - no bridges to hold the work up.

Now the interesting bit:

Some love the Qualey version, some hate it. It may be some of the haters do so because they just plain don't like to hear a familiar piece 'done wrong,' but I'm curious to know if there's another reason.

Tot Taylor, of the 80s pop group Advertising, wrote a marvellous book about the difference between left and right handed music.

The theory goes that right hands - or more accurately, left-hemisphere-dominents - are logical and linear, and therefore tuned to tunes. They find their stimulation in melody construction, decoration and variation. Right handed music often has a simple, frequently well-used, chord structure, and all the interest is focused on the melody. So examples would be most folk dance tunes, most blues and all 12 bars, a majority of country songs and their pop cousins, reggae, rap, and most trance and electronica etc. Most tune players are very left hemisphere - and they don't much mind what chords you put in as long as you don't buck up their feet (and you can spoonerise that if you like).

Right hemis, on the other hand (so to speak), are lateral, conceptual thinkers. They are tuned to harmonic structure, and drawn to inventive progressions and rich chords such as augmented fourths and major sevenths. Very left-handed music will often have a very simple melody, with all the interest coming from the shifting shapes of the lower lines (that's a simplification because it can work the other way up too).

And Dyslexics, like me, are tuned to both and so constantly confused and difficult, but very rewarding to know and love.

Now. Could it be that those who like Qualey's version are very left hemisphere dominant? (That doesn't necessarily mean right-handed by the way, it's more complicated than that). Are they so delighted by his variation and ornamentation they barely notice the 'bass-line butchery.' While those who prefer Bach's original and the Bourassa and Foster versions are more right-hemi?

Or by contrast, is this whole theory a just load of old Tot Taylor Tosh?

Tom

PS Vis Lennon vs McCartney's writing styles, Gershwin, Berstein, Hendrix... the list goes on, and so does the beat.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:12 PM

Well I love this thread.
I do however find that I follow the links hear the playing then get lost in You tube for hours.
Julian Bream,still sounds good even if the old recordings are a bit ropey.
still keep em coming chaps.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 06:17 PM

Tom
I like his version when I first heard it and still do because to me he was putting himself into the work as opposed to play exactly as written. It was his arrangement and felt like a part of himself was given to it to make it entirely his own. I liked the gentle treatment and feeling expressed.

After I heard Rob, his version is technically superior to my ear, It was performed as written yet had the artist emotions coming though in the playing . To my ear Rob is a superior guitarist hands down, but I don't really compare them for Qualey was doing more of an interpretation of a work that he was attempting to make his own. Both quite beautiful in their own regard- to my ear anyway.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 07:37 PM

Old Dude - pleasant listening - Julian Bream is more accurate - but this guy puts his soul into it - nothing to get wound up about .
Enjoy !

Betsy

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:04 PM

For me Bourassa is ahead of Qualey by a length, and Parkening has the best transcription. All largely because of the couonterpoint factor explained by Tom Bliss.

But there is at least one mudcatter who could give them all a run for their money. Justa Picker, who's exsquisite playing first came to my attention when he was here under another name many years ago, was posting again quite recently, so someone might persuade him to give it a go and post the result where we can see and hear it?

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 08:07 PM

exsquisite? Oh dear. Well it's late in the UK....

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 09:01 PM

Peter
is there any recordings online my friend. There are so many catters that are just world class musicians. I do wish they would post on this thread ... such beautiful music

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 09:04 PM

Justa Picker is quite a player. I haven't heard from him since he dropped that forum he started.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 10 - 10:44 PM

hey check out this version of moonlight sonata
moonlight sonata

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 01:42 AM

I read through much of this thread before I was able to play and hear the various clips. Now that I've been able to listen, I have to state my very strong preference for the Rob Bourassa performance as opposed to the Qualey arrangement.

In fact, I flat out dislike what Qualey did to a wonderful and familiar classic. Maybe this is my shortcoming, a failure of imagination to fully appreciate someone's creativity. But, rightly or wrongly, I feel that the deliberate effort to "improve upon" Bach by chopping the rhythm to pieces snd completely eliminating the counterpoint is downright narcissistic.

I think that the "counterproposed" performances by Rob and several others all demonstrate that a musician can be personally expressive and can create a moving performance without resorting to gratuitous and idiosyncratic gimmicry.

I understand that Qualey was trying to create a "flowing" sound and an outlet for his feelings, and if he had been performing a completely original piece, or a work completely unfamiliar to me, he might have elicited a more positive response on my part. But once he got through his tacked-on introduction and began his reinterpretation of the Bach theme, I found it impossible NOT to regard it as butchery.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: Mooh
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 07:09 AM

I only know Rob Bourassa through some discussions elsewhere on the net, and his stunning YouTube videos. His candid and well-considered views and insights are born out of a complete and sympathetic understanding of music. But the proof is in the pudding. He plays with a certain ease and freedom that virtually transcends the instrument. I find myself forgetting about the guitar and only hearing the music.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: autoharpbob
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 07:36 AM

Agree totally with PoppaGator. Technically Qualey was fine, but as a piece of music I enjoyed all three of the others I listened to more.

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 08:58 AM

No question about it Rob is hands down the master. Poppagator brings up a wonderful point. Qualey would have done better to do a completely original piece instead of trying to adapt a great classic. that is a very good point indeed and i had not thought of that. well put, gives me something to think about

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 09:52 AM

They all play the guitar well but few seem to play Bach well,

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: olddude
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:05 AM

HiLo
do you have any other links? that would be awesome if you do. Love to hear Bach being played by fine guitarists

Subject: RE: absolutely beautiful guitar work
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 10 - 11:32 AM

I drifted off into YouTubeLand and found both a nyckelharpa and Bach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs3aUCM8BX8&feature=related