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Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)

MuddleC 19 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM
MuddleC 19 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM
peregrina 19 Apr 10 - 03:01 PM
peregrina 19 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM
peregrina 19 Apr 10 - 03:29 PM
Paul Davenport 19 Apr 10 - 04:45 PM
Herga Kitty 19 Apr 10 - 06:26 PM
Snuffy 19 Apr 10 - 06:57 PM
MuddleC 19 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM
Herga Kitty 20 Apr 10 - 02:38 AM
peregrina 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM
Jim Dixon 22 Apr 10 - 10:04 PM
Sue the Borderer 24 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM
Leadfingers 24 Apr 10 - 07:30 PM
Folkiedave 25 Apr 10 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,JimP 25 Apr 10 - 10:50 AM
Paul Davenport 25 Apr 10 - 11:00 AM
Mr Fox 25 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,Jon Bartlett 26 Apr 10 - 02:23 AM
Hamish 26 Apr 10 - 02:55 AM
peregrina 26 Apr 10 - 03:18 AM
GUEST,vectis 26 Apr 10 - 10:01 AM
Mr Fox 26 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM
Sue the Borderer 29 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM
peregrina 30 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM
GUEST 05 May 12 - 09:37 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM

Howdy surfers!
Heard a song sang down at the Crediton Folk Fest this weekend just gone and I wannit!

Chorus goes:
One for the Rook, one for the Crow, One to whither, one to grow....

over to you sluthes, sloths and fonts of knowlege..the game is afoot!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM

-might be called 'Four seeds in a row'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:01 PM

The phrase is derived from an old widely disseminated planting rhyme.

I've seen a version in George Ewart Evans' book Ask the Men who Cut the Hay (where it's said of 'corn', ie wheat to Americans).

There's a version on an American seed catalog website where it's called a corn-planting (ie maize-planting to UK-ians) rhyme:

"One for the cutworm, one for the crow, one to rot, and one to grow"

...and no doubt many others. The hard life of knowing you couldn't eat, or use as feed, the seeds what you planted, but that pests would.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM

here

    How to sow Beans. 'One for the mouse, One for the crow, One to rot, One to grow.'
    [1850 Notes & Queries 1st Ser. II. 515]

    'Kernels,' said Pa. 'Four kernels. ‥One for the blackbird, One for the crow, And that will leave Just two to grow.'
    [1941 L. I. Wilder Little Town on Prairie ii.]

    Careful farmers‥sow their seed broadcast, saying: One for wind and one for crow One to die and one to grow.
    [1961 N. Lofts House at Old Vine i. 34]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:29 PM

refresh--yes, OP, I realize you wanted to know the song with those words--I know of it, but couldn't find it on my first search. Maybe someone else will know it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN (Mike Barber)
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 04:45 PM

The song is called, 'The Guist Ploughman' by Mike Barber of Fakenham, Norfolk.
We recorded it on our album, 'Songbooks' HATRACD02 in 2008. Great song and one that deserves a lot of singing.

THE GUIST PLOUGHMAN
(Mike Barber © 2003)

Grandfather was a teamsman true and bold
Loved his horses more than gold
He would tend them night and day
For the sake of the harvest he would say

        One for the rook, one for the crow
        One to die and one to grow
        One for the rook, one for the crow
        One to die and one to grow

When Martinmas comes the year turns round
Time to till the stubbled ground
He could plough an acre in a day
But he'd walk eleven miles and say

When winter's o'er it's harrowing time
Break the clods down nice and fine
Make a bed for the seed to grow
And a mawkin stands to scare the crow

There's a boy who walks around the field
Turn the rattle, increase the yield
If we catch him sleeping through the day
Twist his lug and dock his pay

Now the corn is ripe for the harvest mow
Round with the reaper binder go
Sails set tight the sheaves to bind
Stook them up the ears to dry

The stack's growing high all in the yard
Carting always seems damned hard
Keep them corners tight and square
So it stands till the old drum gets round here                

The thresher is driven by steam this year
Plenty of dust so bring on the beer
Corn's in the sack all to be ground
And once more the year turns round

        Here's one for the rook, one for the crow
        Success to the seed that lived to grow

We'll be around at a number of festivals through the year and would be happy to sing it to your hearts content. Visit our website for gig list
http://www.hallamtrads.co.uk
good singing
Paul


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 06:26 PM

Sue the Borderer sings it (and was at the Mudgather at Crediton), and so do Capstan Full Strength (who sang it at the Banbury Song & Ale the previous weekend). And also Craig, Morgan, Robson, who sang it when they guested at Herga last month - I had a little discussion with Carolyn at the interval on the subject of singing parents who are also now known as the parents of famous singing children (Damien, in Mike's case, and the Tabbush sisters in Carolyn's case).

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 06:57 PM

It was Sue the Borderer who sang it at the Mudgather. I know, 'cos I was there.

Try a PM to her for the words.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: MuddleC
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM

That's right, it was Sue...I was too busy listening to the song to take notes!!! and she wizzed away early to boot!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 02:38 AM

Snuffy - Paul posted the words, above....

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM

I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:04 PM

A few more:

From Documents of the Assembly of the State of New York, Volume 11, 1874, page 299:

The number of kernels in a hill may be designated thus:
    One for the blackbird, one for the crow,
    One for the cut-worm, and one to grow.


Monthly Packet of Evening Readings, Volume 19, (London: Mozley and Smith, 1875), page 213:

—and the rule for sowing is,
    'One for the mouse, one for the crow,
    One to rot, and one to grow'


Annual Report of the Secretary of the State Board of Agriculture ..., Volume 19 (Lansing: State of Michigan, 1880), page 148:

I do not believe in the old rhyme—
    "One for the black bird,
    One for the crow,
    One to get mouldy
    And one to grow."


Work and Leisure: The Englishwoman's Advertiser, Reporter and Gazette, Vol. 7 (London: Hatchards, 1882), page 211:

The old farming adage—
    'One for the mouse, one for the crow,
    One to rot, and one to grow,'
is true of fruits as well as of seeds.


Gardeners' Chronicle, Vol. 8 (London: Haymarket Pub., 1890), page 686

There is an old country saying—
    "Sow four beans as you make your row,
    One to rot, and one to grow,
    One for the pigeon, and one for the crow."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Sue the Borderer
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 06:30 PM

Hi MuddleC
Yes, it was me singing The Guist Ploughman at Crediton.
The song grabbed me in exactly the same way when I first hear Paul and Liz Davenport sing it. I wouldn't let them leave the building until they'd sold me their CD.
I sing the words much as Paul has written them out above, though I realised recently that Mike Barber actually sings Michaelmas (rather than Martinmas)so I've changed to that.
I had to rush off on Sunday cos I was running some morris at the Ring o' Bells....
Sue


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 07:30 PM

When the query was first posted , I was wracking my tiny brain trying to remember where I had heard it recently ! Damien Barber at Maidenhead of course ! And what anexcellent evening it was !


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:47 AM

Mike is Damien's father. Craig Morgan Rbbson also perform it. It is on their latest CD Hummingbird's Feather (Reiver REcords RVRCD10) They add Mike's grandfather was a teamsman at Guist in Norfolk, hence the title.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: GUEST,JimP
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:50 AM

This line was used on "I Say No" on the In Harmony's Way CD. I'm sorry, but I don't remember who sang lead on this one, possibly Kim Hughes? Anyway, from the IHW website:

I Say No

Preacher man wanna save my soul an' a
He say "Hellfire!", I say "No," an' a
He say "Give!" an' a I say "Go!" an' a
He say "Hurry-up!" an' a I say "No," an' a

How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a (4 times)

Auction man in a 'bacca row an' a
He say high an' a I say low an' a
He say three an' a I say fo' an' a
He say two an' a I say no an' a

Purty woman make you walk the flo' make you
Beg fo' mercy make you, beg fo' mo' an' a
She say "Come on Daddy" I say "Go!" an' a
She say "Please?" an' a I say no an' a

Plantin' time an' a water's low an' a
They say "Give it up" an' a I say "No, I'll plant
One fo' de cutworm an' a one fo' de crow an' a
One fo' de squirrell an' a one gon' grow!" an' a

Weight down, weight down a-han-a (3 times)
Weight down me, an' a
How somebody gonna weight down me? an' a
How somebody gonna weight down me?

Listen:

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/inharmonysway


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:00 AM

The reason we sing 'Martinmas' instead of 'Michaelmas' is a cultural thing. Where we come from, a little further north than Mike, the hirings at Martinmas were the commencement of the early ploughing. The tradition of plough-lads dancing in the villages of East Yorkshire also occurred at this feast. (There's nothing in the song that's overtly regional apart from the title) We altered the word because it feels more 'comfortable'.
Thanks for singing it to such an appreciative crowd Sue, the song deserves all the support it can get.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Mr Fox
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:14 PM

From: peregrina
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 03:07 AM

I think I have heard another song that also uses a version of this saying for the chorus--any one know it?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a song on Carolanne Pegg's one and only solo album that had the chorus

One for the mouse, one for the crow
One for to rot and one for to grow

I have the CD somewhere and can look up the verses if you wish, Peregrina.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:23 AM

I first heard it from Bernard Miles, a comedy (rural character) EP called "Over the gate", c. 1961.

Jon Bartlett


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: Hamish
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:55 AM

Fab song which I heard at Banbury a couple of weeks ago and immediately put high on the must-learn list. And now with the words (thank you, Paul!) there's no excuse! Except... there are a lot of words, aren't there?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: One for the Rook, one for the crow
From: peregrina
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:18 AM

Mr Fox, thanks, yes, I'd be very interested--and that makes me think now that there are three or more songs that use a version of these lines.


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Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST,vectis
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 10:01 AM

Is there a recording or midi out there? I know the chorus but have forgotton the tune for the blooming verse.


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Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: Mr Fox
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM

Peregrina - Found it! (Didn't take me as long as I expected!) Here goes -

Mouse and the Crow
Carolanne Pegg


One for the mouse and one for the crow,
One for to rot and one for to grow
Big fat bird flying high
I'll get there by and by.

Little old lady, broom nearby,
Keeping cobwebs away from her eye,
But the cat's got the bacon, rat's got the rind,
I'll stay blind if you don't mind.

Tonight we'll dance, tonight we'll sing,
Tonight we'll do most anything.
So clap those hands, shake those bones,
Tap those toes, I'm coming home.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The tune is an odd mix of folk and country (kind of square and morris dance)with a jig to close.


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Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: Sue the Borderer
Date: 29 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM

Thanks for the info about Martinmas/Michaelmas, Paul. Maybe, since I dance with Rattlejag Morris from your part of the country (even though I live in Devon) I will revert to singing Martinmas.

Sue


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Subject: RE: One for Rook, One for Crow-chorus songs
From: peregrina
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 02:38 PM

Thanks very much Mr. Fox, for posting Carolanne Pegg's song that uses this refrain. A good one.

I'm curious about the tune now...and how many more songs will turn up that use this chorus...


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Subject: RE: Req: One for Rook, one for crow (Guist Ploughman)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 12 - 09:37 AM

Just heard it as we walked through the EEL FAIR at Ely sung by a group. People were humming it along the road as we walked away.


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