the uk folkscene and sex changes

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:11 PM

other than purient curiousity, like Howard I see no rhyme nor reason for the original question. Jonathan Ross would feel right at home here

BTNG

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Maryrrf
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 12:05 PM

I know someone involved in folk music who had a sex change. This person didn't make an issue of it, just quietly started back teaching and performing. As the person in question is a very good musician who puts on a great show there were no problems and as far as I can tell no predjudice. This is in the US, but I would imagine it would be the same in the UK. Sex changes have been going on for a long time now (wasn't Christine Jorgensen back in the sixties?) and I'd wager most of us know someone(even if it's a 'friend of a friend of a friend')who has had one. I'd say it would likely be a non issue nowadays after. Personally I agree with Ruth, I'd be proud to promote someone who had the courage to go through with such a drastic life change.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:57 AM

I cannot understand the reason behind asking such a question, other than idle curiosity.

If any performers have suffered discrimination because of this, it is very likely unlawful. Even if it is not actually illegal, it is unlikely that any folk club organisers are likely to admit to it in public, and certainly not in this forum since it is probable that most Mudcatters would find such discrimination unacceptable. Anyone else's opinion, apart from the musicians themselves, is simply speculation.

If Dick has good reasons for asking this question, then he should contact those performers privately. If this uncovers evidence of discrimination then that might be a valid subject for discussion. I don't think the question Dick asked is.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:51 AM

"From the number of people announcing how uncomfortable it makes them feel, I'd say the transformation AND those who've gone through it are taboo and folks would rather pretend they didn't exist."

I don't think anyone has said it makes them feel uncomfortable. People have said they wish to respect others' privacy. I saw someone's gender reassignment referred to in a CD review recently, and I thought it was crass and unnecessary.

If people who have been through gender reassignment wish to talk about their experiences here, great, but there is danger of such a thread simply becoming the repository for salacious rumour and gossip.

In response to the original post, as an organiser I certainly would not be put off booking anyone because of their sexuality or transgender issues. If anything, I would be very proud to promote someone who has taken such a brave step in order to live their life openly and honestly.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: GUEST,Continutiy Jones
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:34 AM

Is the answer 'everything'? As in,

the uk folkscene and sex changes everything

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:29 AM

Prejudice thrives in secrecy. If people don't talk about it, it doesn't exist in the 'normal' world and the possibility of outing a person can inspire fear. Obviously, the possibility of discussing controversial subjects can inspire fear, too.

A sex change/gender re-assignment is not something that will go unnoticed, if it does get talked about only in private.

From the number of people announcing how uncomfortable it makes them feel, I'd say the transformation AND those who've gone through it are taboo and folks would rather pretend they didn't exist.

Secrecy/taboos = power.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:14 AM

Looks like a joke,

And it was, I thought it was an odd question to ask.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:06 AM

Dick, I was told you put on a good evening last Thursday at Maidenhead Folk Club.
I did not ask the person who told me this whether you are male or female, or neither, nor did I ask them if your name really is Dick Miles, or if it's a nickname.
I did however express surprise that you had done so, as judging from some of your posts on this site, I would not personally attend a club to hear you perform.
I would respectfully suggest that I may not be the only person judging you by your on-line persona.
This thread isn't going to swell your audience either.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:06 AM

I know of one female-to-male sex change singer/songwriter, extremely low-profile both before and after and not trying to make a full-time job of it. Prejudice not very relevant there. I find him just plain boring, but the gender issues have nothing to do with it.

The case Dick may be thinking of is one of the singers in an Irish musical/comedy trio, Fascinating Aida. It was news for a short while (ten years ago?) when it came out that she'd started life as a man. I've never seen them or followed their career in any way, so I've no idea what effect the revelation had. At any rate, they were neither from the UK nor a folk act (on anybody's definition).

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 11:03 AM

an odd subject?
sex changes are part of 21st century life,they are however relatively recent,so like anything that is different,they are going to take quite a time before they are accepted as everyday occurrences.
My original question was adressed to [amongst others] folk club organisers,I agree I was being unduly optimistic in thinking that anyone would answer my question,or that people might read my post carefully.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: GUEST,johnp
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:37 AM

If you know of such performers why not ask them in private as to whether they feel they are discriminated against or not. It really seems an odd subject for an online public discussion.
johnp

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:33 AM

Dick - IF you know any performer who your question applies to I suggest you contact them direct , THEN and only if they agree , raise the matter here if there IS any such prejudice !

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:07 AM

The mention of privacy is interesting.
if someone has a sex change presumably they feel happier about their new gender,if they perform in public after having a sex change they are presumably happy about letting the public know they have had a sex change,and are now happier about being a woman rather than a man,or vice versa.
So what all this crap about prurience?.
But how does the public perceive the change and does it or will it affect their abilty to draw people into a folk club or festival.
I know these are difficult questions but is there any point in not discussing it,is there any point brushing it under the carpet and pretending it is not happening,bearing in mind that if a person has done this they wish it to be publicly known they have done so.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 10:03 AM

Fanny Hill?

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM

I asked a serious question ,is there a prejudice against performers who have had a sex change,that has nothing to do with privacy.
sex changes are part of 21st century life it is something that has happened on the uk folk scene,it is therefore worth discussing,without mentioning names,please note I have not mentioned names,neither do I think it proper that names should be mentioned.
so can we discuss this:
is there a prejudice against performers who have had a sex change ,and does it affect or will it affect their ability to get work.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: treewind
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:14 AM

"Is   there is an emergence of 'Fanny Miles' on the cards?"

Looks like a joke, but unless there was some serious intent of that kind (unlikely I should think), The matter is absolutely none of Dick's business, and none of the rest of us either. There are places on the internet for such public prurience, but this ain't one of them.

And what Greg said...

Anahata

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:13 AM

I agree with Greta Stevens and Mrs Happy... ditto!   Best wishes... Elizabethansilver!!

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Mr Happy
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

Ditto!!

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:01 AM

I can think of several reasons for allowing this thread to die quietly. Most involving the word privacy.

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:55 AM

Of course there is a conspiracy against sex change male folk singers. There's one about any subject of paranoia you wish to dream up.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:51 AM

Is   there is an emergence of 'Fanny Miles' on the cards?



(Sorry, I'll get my coat now)

Subject: RE: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: Morris-ey
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:49 AM

Who are these performers?

Subject: the uk folkscene and sex changes
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:26 AM

in recent years a few professional male folk performers have had sex changes.
I am curious as to whether their sex change has prejudiced their abilty to get work,as there are a number of uk folk club organisers on this forum ,I wondered what the views of other people were.
logically there should be no reason why folk performers who have had a sex change should not be booked unless[possibly] their voices changed dramatically,but is there a prejudice against sex change folk performers?