Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters

Subject: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: stallion
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

A young band playing traditional material busking around York to fairly large crowds, and have had a track played from their cd played on radio by Mike Harding, asked me why so many clubs are content with booking Singer/Songwriters. To be quite honest I hadn't really noticed but I am interested in floating the notion in this place and see what the feedback was, as i have said I can't say I have taken any notice of what is happening outside my own little world. Any takers, is this observation correct? If it is then why is it so?

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: GUEST,Guest The Smiler
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 01:53 PM

Could it be the cost, or the noise level from the band or the lack of awarness of the band around the country?
Most organisers won't book somebody they or their most trusted committee haven't seen live.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Acorn4
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 02:13 PM

The cost might be a factor - there's only one of a singer/songwriter.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: S.T.M.
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 03:11 PM

I know a seven piece band who get booked by folk clubs, so maybe it's an area thing, or maybe a budget thing?

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 03:25 PM

In the UK: Hangover from the old "2 in a bar" rule?

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: evansakes
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 03:55 PM

"...why so many clubs are content with booking Singer/Songwriters"

Are you sure you don't have some kind of agenda here, stallion?

By suggesting a club is "content" to put on a certain type of music some might surmise that you're suggesting they're unimaginative or complacent (or both!).

Maybe with certain clubs (and venues) it's not so much that they're "content"....perhaps it's an audience preference issue. It's possible some types of artist simply don't attract as many people.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 04:20 PM

If so, I`m all for it.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: alex s
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 04:47 PM

Burnley folk club have only ever booked one singer/songwriter in our history. We do like to see performers at the club before we book them, unless it's someone we already know like Tom McConville. My advice is go and do floor spots (not very original, but that's the way it works)

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 06:43 PM

Truth is gigs in folk clubs are hard to come by no matter what you sing, too many acts and not enough clubs. The singer songwriters feel they are losing out to the traddies and vice versa. What we need is more clubs.

All the best

Jim Hancock

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: BobKnight
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:59 PM

As a singer/songwriter I think it's the opposite way round. There seems to be a reluctance amongst folk clubs to book singer/songwriters.

In every other genre of music songwriters are praised and honoured. Take, country, rock, pop, all filled with singer/songwriters, but in the world of folk we are treated with suspicion. It seems the "examining the fluff in my own belly button and writing long boring songs about it," brigade have buggered it up for everyone else. :)

I know I find it very hard to get any work at all - so much so that I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth all the bother. I've played one folk club so far this year, and I'm booked for two festivals June/July - that's it.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: GUEST,CAP
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:56 AM

many clubs I've been to support singer/songwriters, but as for having more clubs it sounds great untill you try. A couple of years ago I was given a venue to start a club, told it had to be a wednesday night and "proper artists not people just out to practise" so I booked artists who I thought would suit a small venue and they were mainly singer/songwriters eg:- Harvey Andrews, John Brindley,
Mike Silver and Jez Lowe. Even then people did not come and support it,although they had asked for it. So no club, but a sessions club worked instead at a diffrent venue.
A small venue with limited funding will usually have to pick the singer/songwriter artist as they are the best "value for money".

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Vic Smith
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:38 AM

Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters?

I don't know how typical Sussex is, but if you read through the club listings in The Folk Diary, posted on-line at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tinvic/fd.htm, then the conclusion that you would come to is "Overall, no."

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:39 AM

We do not do so particulary at Swinton but I have noticed that on singers nights there does seem to be a lot more. Funnily enough lots of them don't turn up on guest nights but that's a different topic! If it is a genuine phenomenon I suspect it is because the S/S'ers are relatively unknown, cheap to book and are actively pushing to get recognition.

I suspect, from the context or where the comment came though, that it is the 'other man's grass' syndrome. Even here, in the space of a few posts we have already had one S/S complaining of the exact opposite. Anyone wanting work will always think that another person or group is being favoured.

Just my opinion (and therefore correct of course :-) )

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: stallion
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM

No i haven't an agenda, the person I talking to was Paul from
Blackbeards Teaparty I listened and wasn't really in a position to comment so i posted to find out more. It is true we would like to do some gigs down sarf but it is a long way to travel for three songs so we just tootle along and are quite happy with that.
Peter

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:47 AM

Pete,

Her's a breakdown of what I have booked at KFFC since we started 2.5 years ago (including to the end of this year). You'll see we don't favour singer/ songwriter (but we don't exclude them either).

I've tried to categorise but alot of acts do play a mixture and ...... and tell Paul to get in touch with me for a possible booking next year!

Traditional only                                        22.73%
Mixed traditional and written "traditional" style        41.82%
Self penned/ written but "traditional" style            14.55%
Contemporary folk singer/ songwriter                   16.36%
Pop/ Rock/ Country                                       1.82%
Trad Jazz                                                 0.91%

That's from a total of 110 sets from 78 acts and includes our "mini-fests" (i.e a few acts have been booked twice or more).

p.s. BBTP are probably not getting bookings because they're not asking for them. We're only 35 miles up the road and he has not asked me!

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: evansakes
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:56 AM

Two of the three tracks on their MySpace are instrumental tune sets.

If that proportion is representative of the repertoire maybe you're asking the wrong question, stallion!

Many clubs have a strong preference for songs (both traditional and newly self-written) as opposed to tunes.

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 11:05 AM

Probably also worth saying that club organisers generally get inundated with requests for gigs and you almost find yourself looking for reasons not to book someone.



We had to laugh a couple of weeks ago when Wendy (my other half, she does OK for bookings- Gig List ) spoke to 2 different club orgainsiers on succesive phone calls. One said that they wouldn't book her as she was "too traditional" and the next one told her they don't book "contemporary singer/ songwriters!" (She does a mixture of trad and self penned but quite trad sounding material).

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: DebC
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:13 PM

Paul,

I have gotten the same response from organisers in the States: "You are too traditional or not traditional enough.

What's a singer to do? :-)

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:05 PM

Do you mean folk clubs?
I mean in the first posting .

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: stallion
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 04:15 AM

Well I don't know actually what he meant, Paul is originally from Gainsborough (UK)way and was around the folk club scene there, I assumed he meant folk clubs as we know them Jim. Since we just sing we only ever meet where singing is to the fore, I know they busk a lot and sold 500 cd's in the first two weeks after release just though their street performances. They do appeal to many and in particular to the younger audience. Hi Deb, we did talk about this trad/not trad enough thing, mystifies me, my take is I like good songs and some have stood the test of time and some were written yesterday. There are some artists I like more and some I like less. I sing to enjoy myself, and singing with my two mates takes me to another level of enjoyment, it's the sounds and chords you can make thats why all our stuff is work in progress we constantly explore where we can go the bigger the chorus the more freedom you have to find new harmonies. If anyone likes what we do and wants come along to join in or listen then that is a bonus, the choice of our material is what we enjoy singing and not if it is traditional or not, no pigeon hole ! Anyway, next opportunity for a sing is South Shields 25 April! Lakes first Thursday in May

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: GUEST, Jim Hancock
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 05:26 AM

Hi There

Gainsborough / Lincolnshire is typical of the problem faced by all performers, In the whole of Lincolnshire (From the Humber Bank to the Wash) there are only two paid gigs at folk clubs between today April 23 and the end of the month April 30.
That's a good week, usually there is only one, sometimes none at all.
But Folk is thriving, plenty of sessions / singarounds and paid gigs outside the club circuit, and a good spread of Trad / Contemporary.
Anyone coming into folk as a paid performer must accept that the "Folk Club" will in future provide only a very small part of their work and that they will be competing with hundreds more every time they call a club organiser.
Over the past few years I've had one Lincolnshire Folk Club gig a year, I'm a traddy but don't feel discriminated against, with 80 or so gigs a year available and several thousand acts chasing them I reckin that's a reasonable showing.

All the best

Jim Hancock

Subject: RE: Are clubs favouring Singer/Songwriters
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 06:14 AM

Grimsby FC And Gainsborough do book performers as does Louth fc. Then there is Faldinworth. It does sound a bit bleak when put how you do though JH .