Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4

Subject: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 05:53 PM

After The Choir, starting next week on Friday 7 May, BBC4, "the choirmaster explores the history of shanties and sea songs in Britain's maritime past, travelling around the country and meeting the people keeping the traditions alive..." - quote from the latest edition of the Radio Times.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 06:55 PM

According to RT, he's out of his comfort zone, which suggests that the music should be reasonably authentic.

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:17 PM

According to the online version, its on Sun 09 may at 6.30.

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 10 - 06:56 AM

Fisrmen's Friends article in the Telegraph. Wonder if they will feature in the programme?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/7638223/Fishermans-Friends-when-the-boat-came-in.html

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 10 - 09:41 AM

Yes, they will ...

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 01 May 10 - 01:42 PM

we previewed this programme in English Dance & Song magazine (Autumn 2009) in an article on John Short, the Watchet sailor. I seem to remember that the programme is going to feature Cornish sea songs, fishermen's choirs in Yorkshire, Jim Mageean and the Keelers in Tyneside, Liverpool .... not sure if all of these will make it onto the programme. They planned to include a trip on a sailing ship in the North Sea but I think the weather defeated them!
Derek Schofield
ps just previewed on Stop the Week, radio 4

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 01 May 10 - 04:06 PM

Fishermen's friends and Kimber's men are both definitely in it.

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 01 May 10 - 04:08 PM

Ignore my message of 27th April, thought we were talking about the 'Choir' programme on radio 3 Duh!

Subject: RE: Shnaties & Sea Songs BBC$
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 May 10 - 06:40 AM

very interesting!

are these programs available online?

sandra

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:10 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone
From: GUEST,Dave (Bridge)
Date: 03 May 10 - 09:23 AM

Apparently Keeelers are definitely in. Singing from the top of St Mary's lighthouse. What a climb thatb was

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: Singing Referee
Date: 04 May 10 - 09:29 AM

Sandra, It'll probably be available on-line after the event on BBC iPlayer. Programs are noramlly there for a week, but may be longer if they are part of a series, which this appears to be.

In the UK you can watch it live on-line via a number of websites. I use this one. http://www.tvguide.co.uk

It is possible that this may not work outside the UK.

Steve

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: GUEST,Nick Cain
Date: 09 May 10 - 06:38 PM

How bloody patronisng and out of his depth was Gareth Malone? Why did the beeb give him the brief?

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: buddhuu
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:30 PM

I think you and I must have been watching different shows, Nick... I saw a bit of out-of-depthness but not the patronising.

On the programme I saw it was an enthusiastic non-specialist giving it a sincere go.

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:58 PM

More discussion on this thread:

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=129342&messages=46

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:43 AM

Blue clicky
to other thread.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 08:49 AM

found this BBC program on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqC2-wY_Axw

great footage of the Peking and good use of guests who are part of the tradition and keeping it alive

interesting note, they use a reference R R Terry's first shanty book and Richard Runciman Terry hosted a number of early broadcasts on the BBC of sea shanties in the 19202... but they don't seem to have preserved any of those recordings, Terry, being a Geordie, I've often wondered what he sounded like

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: GUEST,Clicky ...
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 04:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqC2-wY_Axw

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: GUEST,SB666
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 10:51 PM

"great footage of the Peking"??? She was in New York for decades, and is now being restored in Hamburg. How come she fearured in the film?

But now-a-days shanties are a stage act anyway - a bit like the Sailor's Hornpipe was on the Victorian music hall stage. Ever tried step-dancing on a moving deck - impossible.

In the late 1900s sea shanties were tried on various tall ships, and basically they failed. The reasons were quite simple. In the old days the rigging was heavy and required a united effort to pull sheets and raise sails and halyards - that effort was co-ordinated through shanties. But today's modern tall ships have sophisticated and light rigging that does not require such an effort. So it was found that shanties don't work anymore. And capstans are largely extinct anyway.

Whilst the STA and other Brit. tall ships use "2,6,heave" to unite effort for heavier work such as raising a halyard or bracing the yards, old style sea chanties simply don't have the right rhythms or speed for relatively effortless work with modern rigs fitted out with devices to give every mechanical advantage the old sailors never enjoyed.

The other major issue is the use of 'pretty' singing in harmonies - er, sorry if a shsnty is to be used to help with hard manual labour then harmonies are the last thing needed.

Many times I have suggested to shanty singers that they actually try and sail a tall ship to appreciate what a shanty can do to help ease the hard work on a tall ship. Chris Roche, and the late Stan Hugill, and the late Johnny Collins are / were some of the very few sea shanty singers that I knew who actually used shanties for real whilst sailing.

Certainly Gareth Malone never sailed a tall ship to appreciate the use of sea shanties. A lost opportunity there.

====

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: sciencegeek
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 04:55 AM

they used historic footage of the Peking, a very common thing in documentaries and completely legitimate

and many of your points were actually brought out in the video, which I am fairly certain you never bothered to watch...

they even had a short segment on a coastal village with a tradition of maritime hymns - something that the late, great Lou/Louisa Killen talked about when performing The Rose in June at Mystic Seaport.

I don't know a dang thing about Mr. Malone, but I have been involved in the study of shanties and sea songs for fifty years, along with the various efforts to preserve them... and this BBC effort is a worthwhile watch and I hope you and others will take the opportunity to view it...

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: sciencegeek
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 05:12 AM

I should have mentioned that in the thread above is a link to a long discussion of the film and its merits... check it out

Subject: RE: Shanties & sea songs with Gareth Malone BBC4
From: sciencegeek
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 05:48 AM

here is the link to the 1929 film made featuring the Peking rounding the Horn...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tuTKhqWZso

well worth a half hour of your time to watch