Why can't I sing?

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: Bert
Date: 20 May 10 - 03:20 AM

it always feels very wrong to sing a song in a different key to the one I originally heard.

Sounds as though you might have perfect pitch. If so you just need a lot of practice. Try listening to the intervals.

Keep singing all the time, if you can hear that you are wrong then more practice will work for you.

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: GUEST,Crowhugger (oops, no cookie just now)
Date: 20 May 10 - 12:21 AM

What a good idea to try another instrument...I've found that each instrument I learn is less difficult than the one before, and sheds light on them too.

My 2 cents on your quandary: When people learn to sing as children it's usually alongside the rest of life's learning, as with lullabys (what is bed time, how to relax for sleep), or skipping songs (counting, co-ordination etc), with the radio in the garage while watching dad change the oil (about tools, why cars have oil)...all these are no-pressure situations.
   Kids just sing. There isn't much question of "good" or "in tune" or "what key" and no one really cares about the so-called mistakes one might make as a kid. Above all, the learner doesn't care and probably isn't expected to achieve.

But as an adult, that fairly simple equation is muddied with self-awareness, fears of inadequacy, negative self-talk acquired as we mature, maybe also perfectionism or ambition, deadlines, expectations.

Relax, don't worry about it. Sing every chance you get. Play with your voice; try to copy every sound you hear. Not to "succeed" but to learn about all the things your voice can do. Sing with other people every chance you get. Record yourself and listen, do it so much that your recorded voice doesn't sound strange to you any more. Try other instruments. Sing along with them, fool around, experiment. Listen to young children playing alone...copy the sounds their voices make.

I have little doubt you can sing. Maybe after 2 years of lessons (you didn't say how much you practise) your ear-voice co-ordination is starting to emerge. Think of a child who has learned to talk by age 2 who then starts learning to sing, how might they sing by age 4? Then by age 12?

Yes, adults have the potential to make faster progress because of more developed muscles and sophisticated learning skills. But for you it sounds like left-brain approaches can get in the way, as can self judgement.

All that blather of mine is to say: Forget about looking for a destination--there isn't one. Learning to sing better will always be a journey. I'm constantly learning new things about singing and about my voice even though I've been singing (not professionally) for more than 50 years.

I'm curious so maybe you'll tell us, S.T.M., is the input/advice here at Mudcat any different so far than you've received elsewhere? You'd already asked everyone you know yet wanted to keep asking, so I wonder if you've asked the wrong question, or simply didn't like the answers.

~CH.

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: Gurney
Date: 20 May 10 - 12:14 AM

self-consciousness? My lady sings OK until she realises someone is listening.
S.T.M., you could try out with a choir or with a group of friends. Sometimes, having someone singing next to you helps.

Dancing is about rhythm, until you get very good. Perhaps you are listening to the wrong thing?

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 May 10 - 10:26 PM

Get a ticket to Virginia and spend one week with me and the P-Vine and this problem will be over...

In other words, get around singers...

B~

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 19 May 10 - 08:45 PM

Ronnie Drew was one of the worlds bet singers and he at best a unique voice. I think Iris Dement has a perfect voice for the songs she writes. The same is said of Malvina Reynolds.

Singing is more than knowing the rules. And it is also very simple.   When you just sing spontaneously, with out an instrument do you start at a note and stay in relation to that note through out the song? Neil Young songs don't count.

And when you sing a song you last heard on the car radio or as a CD do you automatically sing in the same key you last heard the song in?

I think you are over thinking this. Find a folk song club and slip in to a song circle. Sing along until you feel comfortable enough to take a lead.


Don

Subject: RE: Why can't I sing?
From: BobKnight
Date: 19 May 10 - 08:40 PM

If you're singing off pitch, surely your singing teacher must be
able to tell you when you are. What does he/she say about it?

Subject: Why can't I sing?
From: S.T.M.
Date: 19 May 10 - 08:29 PM

Hi all,

I'm taking this discussion here since I must have asked pretty much everyone I know for their thoughts on this strange "condition" that I have and would really appreciate your help.

I supposed the background is this; I am 18, a female and come from a non-musical family. We've never listened to music nor played any instrument and no one, except me has taken an interest in it. My school did not sing any songs, except at christmas and we did not play any instruments.

I had classical singing lessons for two years and found out a lot about singing. Different techniques, breathing, diction, interpretation, reading, etc.

However, to this day, I still can't sing and I'm not sure why. It certainly, at first, seems to be a pitch problem, since I find it difficult to hear myself going off key or following a different tune completely!

I don't think it is a pitch problem, however, but more of a "music" problem. I am confident that I can hear the melody I am supposed to be singing accurately in my head, yet it does not come out of my mouth. 7/10 I can hear that I am out of tune (although I never used to be able to, before I saw my current- very patient- singing teacher). I can hear when other people are going out of tune easily and can tell the difference between two notes (not by name, but I can hear that they are different).

I have been very lucky in the last couple of years to be surrounded by wonderful musicians and so have learnt to listen a bit better than I did before (before, I would never notice subtle violin parts or the guitar or the drums or anything other than the singing- bizarre thinking about it now!)

Despite this, it has become clear that my difficulty with music goes beyond pitch- I also find dancing a massive and embarrassing chore. I know that I am out of time and rhythm with what I should be moving to, yet I seem to be hearing so many different things, if that makes sense? For example, I could be dancing to the smooth sound of the flute and then change to the sudden beats on the drums and then swaying to the vocals...I never seem to hear sound as a whole, rather individually and confusingly.

I find it difficult to change to a different key willingly (ironic really!) and it always feels very wrong to sing a song in a different key to the one I originally heard.

I feel a definitely have a problem more than most people with music and I can't put my finger on it. I have looked into amusia but my condition is no where near as severe, looked into tone deafness but that doesn't match either, otherwise I couldn't tell apart two notes like I can. I even looked into having perfect pitch or something, because I have heard that that can cause many problems for people who use it incorrectly- they have difficulty hearing music any other way than it was originally heard and so impossible to deal with it in any other form, but it has become quite apparent that I don't posses that either!

I really am at a loose end because I love singing and particularly love unaccompanied folk singing- but it does just not look like a realistic achievement any time soon. Please don't get me wrong- I have no wishes to be a professional singer, but I would just love to be able to sing at my local sing around without feeling humiliation, shame and embarrassment (I am aware that this is probably in my mind and no one really cares if I sound terrible but it is off-putting knowing you will ALWAYS be the worst!).

I have recently started playing the whistle, which has improved my timing a lot and thus the overall sound is much better. I just wish I could sort out this pitch/music issue.

If anyone has any suggestions, experiences or information about this, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks,
ST.