The men with the camera

Subject: The men with the camera
From: Captain Farrell
Date: 24 May 10 - 01:04 PM

Just returned from a very good festival, but why do cameramen slide about round the front of stage oblivious to the audience who may want to listen and watch without people waving long lens cameras in front of them.Do it by all means but from the side with discretion.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 May 10 - 01:14 PM

Perhaps because they want pictures of the performers , NOT the audience

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 24 May 10 - 01:47 PM

Sometimes you need to find a spot where you can actually get a shot of the performer in which face/hands instrument aren't covered by microphones. There's no point in staying at the side and make all that fuss, only to come home with shite photographs.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 24 May 10 - 04:15 PM

When I take pictures at an event I just get there early and get a seat at the front in the position that I want. There is no excuse for blocking the sight lines of paying customers.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 10 - 05:03 PM

Shite photographs should not be more important than spoiling other peoples enjoyment, or disturbing a performers performance.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 May 10 - 04:02 AM

Different people at a venue have different jobs to do, are there for a variety of reasons.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Gurney
Date: 25 May 10 - 08:03 PM

Once when I was on the gate at a festival, a television camera crew turned up. Good publicity, I thought, and let them in free.
After making a pain of themselves for most of a day, our airtime was about seven seconds of one group jamming.

Tell them to get out of the bloody way. The Captain is right.
About highwaymen, too.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 May 10 - 08:16 PM

Note that for anyone who's ever had a kid involved in something where parents and guests are invited, the "men" is a bit sexist.

Women take pictures too, and a "soccer mom" (even at a drama club show) is likely wider and louder than most men, and is way more likely to have an uzi^* in her bag.

^* uzi = generic term for "means and inclination to object to objections."

John

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: breezy
Date: 26 May 10 - 03:38 AM

Peter Laaaaaaban sounds like someone who absolutelyhas no empathy with our music.

I recall enjoying a Gordon Tyrell performance at a festival concert only to have it wrecked by a pillock with a camera who stood in front of the stage and ruined everybody's pleasure through his ignorance of ettiquette [sp].

Gordon looked non too happy, seeing as it ruined the comunication between him and his audience the invasive interuption was a total distraction and ruined the concert. The 'photographer' was so thick as to be oblivious to the way in which his selfishness was being derided by the performer.

All those 'perfromance' shots can be taken after an event after all they are not real 'action-shots'

Some photographers are lacking in certian areas and regard their 'penile extensions' as a form of compensation.

Piss off pretend paps


And stop using flash as we near the climax of our performance.

As for those who dont ask if they can take a piccie, well thats another example od bad manners

And dont give us the'Its my work ' or 'I'm the offiial photographer' lines

We only care about the the song we are listening to, so sod off ! before we stick it where it may or may not fit.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 04:31 AM

We only care about the the song we are listening to, so sod off

You said something about lack of empathy?

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Captain Farrell
Date: 26 May 10 - 05:48 AM

I do see `the sexist bit` but I cant recall a camera person doing it only camera men sorry.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 May 10 - 06:44 AM

Breezy: I can't see why you felt you had to pick on someone who explained how they take photographs without inconveniencing the audience or the performer. I've done that job (official photographer)using the same method Peter Laban mentions and not got in anybody's way.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 10 - 07:38 AM

The ME generation only know their own needs, and they ain't needs, just measly WANTS.
But that takes precedent over community. And Folk is, if nothing else, community based.
But then quite few festivals are not Folk - they are music festivals and that attracts a different mindset.
Now what about TV cameras? They have paid for the pictures - so you have no vote. And no ticket in my case.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 08:12 AM

As I said, people arrive at gigs with different purposes. Some come to watch/listen, some sing along, some insist on clapping out of time, some take photographs, some play music. Wit ha bit of tolerance and understanding of eachother's purposes no clashes need occur.

As a photographer I make a point of arriving early to make sure I settle myself where I have a good point of view. Sometimes however microphones are set up after I arrive obstructing a good view and I'll have to move around a bit to get a shot. When this need occurs, you do so taking care to minimise disruption.

From my experience as a musician I can not recall any instances of a photographer at work causing me any problem. Audience members flashing their point and shooters straight into you eyes are generally more of a problem in that respect (especially when you know they won't get anything worth looking at). TV crews with multiple cameras and lighting rigs can be a bit daunting but like yourself, they're there to do a job and the best you can do is accept that and try block them out as best you can. Mind you, if they want you to play the same thing four or five times so they can get different angles to mix with things can get a bit tedious.

All in all, tolerance and mutual understanding go a long way. Live and let live, give and take and all that.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: breezy
Date: 26 May 10 - 08:14 AM

Hi Les

Sorry about football team

Have you have ever taken a photo by walking forward and positioning yourelf in front of the performer, thus positioning yourelf between the said performer and the audience whilst the performer is mid song ?

If so you will have been a distraction to both the performer and the audience.

Dear Laban, empathy I have in abundance , with some to spare, possibly I have your share too.

Its empathy with the music you twit, but then, you are no more than an intrusive photogragher who is totally insensitive to others about you. But maybe not so from now on. We can but live in hope.

Taking someone's picture is an intrusion into their privacy even if they are performing in public at the time. Photo should not be taken without first seeking the subject's permission.
Its only common curtesy after all.

Yes, I can be terribly annoyed by people taking my picture without asking, and it happens most frequently and then there are those   who turn away thinking I havent noticed them stealing a crafty picture, though I am sure they are harmless and shy creatures at heart.

I'll happily pose for those who ask, and then show their gratitude, either before or after and am grateful for the copies they have sent me, and entered into exhibitions and competitions.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 08:21 AM

Dear Laban, empathy I have in abundance

You have a hard time showing it though. You seem to enjoy taking your own issues out on me, someone you know nothing about.

It doesn't come across very well.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: breezy
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:28 AM

No, but I'm venting spleen upon those photographers who interrupt in general and invade others space in an isensitive manner, through being ignorant and dont go away.

If it applies to you then so be it, look inwardly and decide.

I bet you're a really nice snappy happy chappy at heart and your camera is not your penile extension.

This is not personal, but general.

Keep your head down.

Great thread subject but should be in the B S section

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:31 AM

This is not personal, but general.

You kept addressing me though. And no, I don't feel it applies.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:47 AM

Peter Laban: I think you should recognise that at music festivals, the vast majority have come to hear, or play music. I don't recall anybody planning to go to a folk festival in order to look at a photographer's back. It may be that you do your photographing with great discretion, if so, good on you. Unfortunately, this is not alway the case with your colleagues, and this needs to be considered.
You say, for example, that as microphones get in the way, you "have to" move around to get good shots. Would it also be your position that audiences "have to" move around if photograpers get in the way?

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: breezy
Date: 26 May 10 - 09:57 AM

If the cap fits, put it over the lens.

I suppose Laban you wouldnt mind if people talk whilst you're performing.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:28 AM

Here you go again assuming things about people you don't know. It's a real bad habit.

They are your own frustrations. Deal with them. Get some help to let go of all that. It makes life so much easier.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Captain Farrell
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:30 AM

It looks as though this subject did need an airing but please lets all be constructive and friendly with it

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Old Vermin
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:37 AM

"They are your own frustrations. Deal with them. Get some help to let go of all that. " from Peter Laban is, I think, just plain bloody rude. Not to mention unpersuasive. Any valid point he had is lost in the sheer, bullying, nastiness of his tone.

Heigh-ho.

If and when I or gigs I go to are overwhelmed by photographers...

Speaking of which, why is it that that when one appears in a clip on Youtube, it's never in the bit that went really well?

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:39 AM

There are many things that can get your goat, if you let hem. A lot of people can behave very boorishly, audience members, musicians. photographers, sound-people, all sorts.

It's easier to accept them as just these little things in life, within reason. Or deal with them in a non aggressive way by seeing another side to them. Live and let live, accepting different strokes.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 10:48 AM

Peter Laban is, I think, just plain bloody rude

I tried to be a bit tongue in cheek. I do want to remind you the tone was set with the 'sod of or we will stick it where it doesn't fit'. And it didn't end there. And I wasn't the one who took the discussion to that level.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Old Vermin
Date: 26 May 10 - 11:07 AM

"I tried to be a bit tongue in cheek." Nice of you to say so. Tone of voice is just so difficult to convey in a written medium, don't you find?


Come to think of it there was the press photographer who tried to move me and my camera out of the way. I was twelve or a bit more at the time, had got my position twenty minutes earlier, and was nicely prepared. I rather firmly declined. 'Let the professionals through' was no substitute for timeliness.

Any way, so why do photographers invariably take the bits you wouldn't necessarily have chosen?

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 May 10 - 11:17 AM

Breezy having his hang-ups is one thing, his continuing attempts to pin them on me got tiresome. Possibly a different wording would have been better.

As I said, some people, photographers not excepted, can be quite boorish. (and that was not aimed at anyone in particular, before someone decides to take this the wrong way).

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 May 10 - 11:36 AM

I'd say if you're *being paid* to be somewhere, get there in good time to do your job well, but don't inconvenience the people that *have paid* to be there to simply enjoy themselves.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: semi-submersible
Date: 26 May 10 - 04:12 PM

I don't mind an occasional photographer slipping around below my line of sight of the stage, maybe sticking half a head into the bottom of my view while taking the shot or shots, and then waiting for the interval between songs before returning to his or her regular position.

Still, if someone did this several times during a concert it could get annoying.

Subject: RE: The men with the camera
From: breezy
Date: 26 May 10 - 05:27 PM

That was fun.

Seems that not many here today are pro photographers

Perhaps they need an image coach.

Hope all the advice proferred is hindered by our eminent guest.

Aye Aye Captain Farrell, thanks for opening the can

Well said Crow Sis

Like it Old Verm

cheers our Greg

And thanks for your sensitivity and as discreetness Les

Peter Laban, welcome to the mudcat.

Now to have a go at tailgaters

Joe , can you shift this to the BS thread please as it has nothing to do with music? No? , Oh O K then


happy half term, enjoy Chippenham


but the next person who gets in my line of vision to take a photo of the artiste I am watching........