The best of the UK Concertina players

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 01:52 PM

alf...The session runs every night during folk week

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Alf
Date: 16 Jan 11 - 11:05 AM

Hi Jim, do the Tues sessions run in Folk week? We're planning to go again this year & I'd like to hear Ann play again, bumped into her last year when we were doing 'Spot the Whitby concertina player' for Darlo Les but never got to listen to her.

Alf ......    planning for Whitby already :)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 06:18 PM

Her nam is Ann & lives on the Railway in Whitby (the area near The First Inn Last Out) . She plays a beautiful Crabbe Anglo & often pops in to Tues night sessions at FILO

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:56 AM

Martyn is one of the artists on English International.
He has a new Email address and sadly I have mislaid it, if Warwick Downes reads this perhaps he would be kind enough to pass the number on.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,oldnickilby
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:35 AM

I suppose we could always ask Colin Dipper if he knows this virtuoso.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Chipple Chapman
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:35 AM

Found this thread searching for any mention of Martyn Bradley, a very old and dear friend. When at college, Brads would decide he fancied an instrument, pick it up and learn it! When I met him he was an accomplished folk/blues guitarist and jazz drummer and subsequently learned bluegrass banjo, psaltrey, sitar and dulcimer just as his musical interests took him (could always play better spoons than him though!!) It was many years later I heard him play concertina and guess what - he was v v good!!
Anyone know where he is??

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 03:03 AM

I wonder if the International Concertina Association or the Yorkshire Concertina Club could help identify the lady.

I'll be at Whitby this year with the Spare Parts Concertina Band and would be delighted to meet someone else saddled with a similar name as well as hearing her play. The only other Valmai I've met was my father's sister, whose name I got as a result of my parents' lack of imagination. It's pronounced either 'Val-My' or more usually 'Sorry, what was that?'

Mind you, Edna Everidge's daughter is apparently called Valmay but I haven't heard that she plays any sort of concertina.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Alf
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 02:53 PM

The concertina case had a Guild of Assassins badge on the front (Discworld) if that's any help in jogging anyone's memory for a name. (She did mention that people rarely complained about the music...... and never twice :D )    Alf

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Les from Darlo
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 03:51 AM

Thanks Alf, that sounds like her and if she's caring for a sick husband that explains why she wasn't out playing for long. 'Spot the concertina player' it is   Les

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Alf
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 03:43 AM

I think I met Les's 'Whitby Lady' a couple of years ago. Sat in the front little bar of the pub near the railway station with a pot of tea, a bag of shopping, playing Playford tunes on an Anglo, only a couple of other people in even though it was Folk Week as it was not long after opening time. I know it was an Anglo (a Dipper) as I asked her, she then gave me an impromptu lesson, explained how to play a simple scale and had me playing 'Frere Jaques' within 10 minutes !! ( Never been able to play any instrument before, it made my week :D )Then she said it there was no limit to the types of tunes that an Anglo could do and played a waltz, a tango, 'I do like to be beside the seaside' and finished with the Bluebell Polka before excusing herself as she had to get home with as her husband was ill and couldn't be left alone for long. She'd taken the concertina with her when she'd gone shopping in the hope of finding an early session for half an hour but as there was no-one about she'd started her own :)   I'll keep an eye out for her this year too, it's going to be 'Spot the Concertina Player' at Whitby            Alf

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 05:12 PM

I think GSS is referring to Valmai Brown. She did live in Whitby but has moved to Filey fairly recently. She is not plump but silver haired and she sings very well, so I don't think it is the lady being referred to in this thread.

Last time I saw Valmai was at the June Black Bull Bender and she was in fine voice then although I gathered she had had some health problems.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Les from Darlo
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 02:38 PM

This lady didn't sing, I remember hearing her say that she had the voice of a tone deaf frog and stuck to playing tunes rather than empty the pub :) The range of tunes and styles was interesting, plenty played in minor keys too. Is Valmay plump, just over 5 foot tall with glasses, long hair up in a bun and a yorkshire accent? I'm going to look out for her in Whitby during Folk Week whoever she is.    Les

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 01:55 PM

Interesting Les I have not heard of her and when we were booked for Whitby some years ago I do not remember her in the sessions.I would certainly like to hear her play as well .
Have you come across her Dick, I only know the Valmai at Lewes who plays English, never heard the name Valmay mentioned though.
Sounds an interesting player and not the repertoire from someone that just sits at home and plays for their own enjoyment.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 01:03 PM

could it have been valmay[not goodyear]but a singer, anglo concertina player who lives in Whitby.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:58 AM

Hi Al, she had what looked like an Anglo and played all the tunes from memory. I could kick myself for not asking who she was but it was during folk week and I was with a group of friends, by the time I thought to ask she'd gone and most of the musicians who'd been in the session had changed (rolling session) and they didn't know her either but said she'd mentioned having to get back home to feed a neighbour's cat which combined with the shopping makes me think she lives in Whitby. Didn't look like a business woman, more like someone's Mum or Auntie and wasn't dressed like a 'folkie', just a pleasant middle aged woman but I'd have happily paid to listen to her playing.          Les

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 10:25 AM

Les - Iris Bishop would be capable of running through all those tunes, but she lives down here in Crawley. I do not know of the concertina player that may live in or near to Whitby, she may have been up there on business however.
Do you know what system she was playing Anglo, English or Duet?
Lesley Heneker could manage it, but she plays to dots on her Duet.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Les from Darlo
Date: 18 Jul 10 - 08:17 AM

Still haven't found out the name of the lady in the Whitby pub session but she was playing everything from Purcell, Playford, O'Carolan, Ragtime, Tango's, Morris, Music hall to the Bluebell Polka and that beautiful rendition of David of the White Rock (before quietly disappearing)   :) Think she was a local judging by the shopping she had with her but someone on here must know her name. When asked if she knew a particular tune her reply was 'You hum it pet, I'll play it'

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 04:25 PM

100, leadfingers

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jul 10 - 04:24 PM

jim younger

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: oggie
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 05:45 PM

Pedant point, but Eire is not in the UK and it has a totally different tradition and styles of concertina plying.

Steve

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 10:00 AM

has anyone mentioned Frances Wilkins?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 07:25 PM

Hallo Paul long time no see.
Martyn is listed by me above.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,paul downes
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 05:49 PM

There has, amazingly, been no mention of Martyn Bradley, surely one of the most adept in every style from Handel through Playford and Irish to jazz. i suppose it is because he now plays drums!

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 01:53 PM

We could argue about the polite bit, but I won't.

Your [ brain specialist] is beyond me. Care to explain?

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:43 PM

I am polite to you Peter,[ brain specialist].
I agree with the OP they are worth a listen.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:22 PM

Always ready for a polite reply

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jul 10 - 12:00 PM

Foc il leat

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,An Leathcheann Beag
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 04:36 PM

I like SEAN NOS singing, but a little more variety might be acheived with the addition of concertina accompaniment.<-i>

Oh dear, oh dearie, dearie me.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 02:28 PM

"And moaning everything used to be better? That isn't what it used to be either, is it."
nobody has done that, however it used to be different[not necessarily better but different], have a listen to PADDY IN THE SMOKE,the players sound like they are enjoying themselves, they sound like people who worked all the week, and really looked forward to playing some music on a sunday, and that is what happened, now it sounds to me[that sometimes] we have people of very polished technique, who sometimes can sound like they are on automatic pilot and a little bit bored, who can blame them, if they have just done their twenty third gig in twenty four days.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 09:37 AM

"How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)" quote PETER lABAN.
that sounds like you are trying to tell me what to do ,Peter.
ITM consists of songs a well as tunes, in my opinion, it would be more interesting if more of the irish concertina players used their concertinas to accompany songs, I like SEAN NOS singing, but a little more variety might be acheived with the addition of concertina accompaniment, it is certainly one area where concertina players in England appear to have explored in more depth.
of course not all songs benefit from accompaniment, and the skill of a good performer is to know when to accompany and when not to.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:45 AM

Peter, Irish music will ossify and become monotonous if everyone ends up playing in the same style,
tutors have a responsibilty to try and show at least two different styles, or point pupils in the direction of recordings that show different styles.

Really Dick, I asked you before, read my posts before you address me. And I really can't see why you address this bit at me here.

I think I made the point above that a lot of people find their own feet.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:37 AM

"A classic example of this is Kate McNamara a superb Irish Concertina player that has been tutored by Mary McNamara (no relation). She has taken all that Mary has to teach her and added her own style to it."   
exactly, Alan,lets hope there is still room for many styles in irish music, otherwise the music will ossify.
My tutors are a song accompaniment tutor and an English Concertina tutor, the latter contains Scottish, English and Irish tunes, it make suggestions and discusses alternative ornamentation, at no point does it specify that there is only one way of playing ornaments, it is atutor to help people learn the English Concertina[nothing more nothing less].
Peter, Irish music will ossify and become monotonous if everyone ends up playing in the same style,
tutors have a responsibilty to try and show at least two different styles, or point pupils in the direction of recordings that show different styles.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 08:03 AM

I am not telling you how to play, dick. Why would I?

I haven't complained about anyone's playing here, not have I suggested anything is disappearing up a hole, have I? That was someone else, and I was replying to that comment.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 07:56 AM

Idont think I said that anything used to be better.
neither is it Noel Hills fault, any more than it is Martin Carthys fault, if people slavishly copy Martins style,
The problem[ the disappearance of regional styles] however does not go away and is not helped by Comhaltas who tend to promote a homeogeonised irish style, and is not helped by tutors, if they do not make pupils aware of different styles.
Peter, I am getting rather fed up with your personal attacks upon me, if you visit my you tube site you will see that as well as five note rolls, i advocate four note rolls, that is a single grace note[note above] , before the main note and a single grace note[note below]before the next main note[ example dotted crotchet in jig time], I also advocate playing a dotted crotchet as four notes two semi quavers two quavers or one quaver two semiquavers one quaver, I ALSO ADVOCATE [SOMETIMES PLAYING THE NOTE UNORNAMENTED],or with just a double stop.soIattempt to show different possibilities, and allow pupils to make up their minds what to do themselves.

"How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)"
this statement is a classic peice of flaming by Peter Laban.
my answer to trolls like PETER is this, it depends on how I am feeling at the time and the speed of the music[five not rolls are more satisfactory at a slower speed],
in fater peices i use four note embellishments,
I rarely play the same peice twice anyway furthermore I dont let anyone else tell me how i should play.
so Peter go away and in the words of the bantry girls lament
" And the piper with his bellows may go home and blow the fire "

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 04:22 AM

Personally I get very tired of people who whack around the old platitudes like it was done before. Especially if they can be found elsewhere advocating the use of rolls on the English concertina.

It's a tunnel vision view. In fact there's great variety in approaches among concertina players in Ireland, both young and old. It's nonsensical to give out to players in their mid teens when found playing like their teacher. If you look at the generation of players older than them, say those now in their mid twenties and produced by the same teaching method, you'll find styles develop, new directions are found.

I am not a big fan of Noel Hill or his method but I did send my son to him for lessons for a few years. Why? Because he is a good and thorough teacher who teaches his pupils to find their way around the concertina.

He's been taking his best Willie week pupils out on stage during the concertina concert for the past thirty years or so. I have seen Dympna O Sullivan, Edel Fox, Yvonne Griffin and who knows go through the ranks. They played the tunes they learned the week before the concert and then they went home and found their own voices.

Some years ago, maybe ten even, Yvonne Griffin was talking about the background of her concertina-playing. 'Noel Hill opened up the rows for us' (She was talking about both herself and her sister Lourda) implying they found new possibilities, more room to bring out the music they had in their heads. And that can only be a good thing, can't it? Yvonne is definitely among my top three concertina players, great heart in her music.

And moaning everything used to be better? That isn't what it used to be either, is it.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Alan Day
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 03:49 AM

I certainly would not have walked out on young players trying to play the concertina, I applaud Noel Hill for the tuition he gives to players. Young players learn the basics and then formulate their own styles based on what they like. Whatever Noel has taught them will set them up for life. Just in the same way Dick you and I are offering tutors to help players learn the instrument. If you introduced five youngsters that cloned your playing I would stand and applaud their efforts and congratulate you on your advice to them.
A classic example of this is Kate McNamara a superb Irish Concertina player that has been tutored by Mary McNamara (no relation). She has taken all that Mary has to teach her and added her own style to it. In exactly the same way that the Noel Hill youngsters will develop their own style.
Al

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Jul 10 - 03:24 AM

How are the five note rolls coming along Dick? You really should make up your mind whether or not you like them. ;-)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 07:13 PM

thanks Guy, it was a bad thing, but I have my health and still have a tina to play.
yes, I like Marys style too

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: treewind
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:33 PM

"Kitty Hayes was a delightful lady and a wonderful player in that old uncluttered, steady style where the tune itself really mattered."

So is Mary Macnamara.
(not that I'm an expert on Irish music - I gave it up years ago, but I heard her play a couple of years ago and I know what I like)

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 06:17 PM

Great thread !! Thanks to all for ading information .. Dick I am so sorry to hear of your fire .. Not great . All the best to all here . Guy

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Bob M
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 04:00 PM

The Best..... Roger Edwards

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 02:15 PM

I did mention Sandra kerr

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: Old Grizzly
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 02:03 PM

Good Soldier Schweik said :-

< furthermore the irish concertina tradition is in danger of disappearing up its own rectum, there is too much slavish copying of ornamentation, too many people trying to win competitions by over ornamenting.and toomany people slavishly copying Noel Hill, and too many idiots who assume that there is only one way to play ITM.
that was why the late Kitty Hayes was such a refreshing change >

Hear hear !!!

Kitty Hayes was a delightful lady and a wonderful player in that old uncluttered, steady style where the tune itself really mattered.

Players these days are all trying to 'out-ornament' each other while trying to win the race to the end of the tune !

The rigid teaching of the Noel Hill method, now also taught by so many of his ex pupils, has killed off so much individuality and stifled innovation.

At Clancy week some years ago Noel was preaching at the Sat night concert and was bemoaning the loss of all the different regional styles of music in the west of Ireland, ie East clare, West clare ... etc ...

He then introduced 6 of his star pupils, none over about 18 years old, who 'trooped' on stage, each with a Jeffries under the left arm, sat in a line and all played the same tune over-ornamented and far too fast, in perfect unison with each other. Although technically skilled, nay close to 'perfect', they might just as well have been robots.

I got up and walked out before my anger & frustration got the better of me

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 12:45 PM

I would have thought that someone would have mentioned Sandra Kerr by now. I once heard her and Pam Bishop playing a duet together - and they were absolutely awesome!

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:37 AM

furthermore the irish concertina tradition is in danger of disappearing up its own rectum, there is too much slavish copying of ornamentation, too many people trying to win competitions by over ornamenting.and toomany people slavishly copying Noel Hill, and too many idiots who assume that there is only one way to play ITM.
that was why the lkate Kitty Hayes was such a refreshing change

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:26 AM

and Tony Rose,Alf Edwards,Dave Townsend,Harry Boardman,Mark Dowding,VeraAspey,Sara Graves,RogerDigby.HarryScurfield

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:01 AM

I have seen one video where Dolores used it on one track, Liam Clancy[EC] used it of course, But when you think of the concertina song accompanists from England,SteveTurner Louisa Killen, Dick Miles, Damien Barber, Keith Kendrick[Anglo and English], John Kirkpatrick, TimLaycock[Duet],Brian Peters,PeterBellamy,MtheGM,Robert Harbron, Sandra Kerr.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:44 AM

I don't know, about it being sad I mean. It's just not something people do around here.

I think you mentioned this before (recently) here or elsewhere, I could come up with Frank Harte as a singer who used a concertinaplayer in his backing occasionally, not many more (although Dolores Keane did a bit as well but I am not sure now she sang to her own playing or just backed John Faulkner).

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 10 - 12:30 PM

yes ,Peter, correct. SADLY[IMO] very few of them use it for song accompaniment.

Subject: RE: The best of the UK Concertina players
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM

we haven't scratched the surfcae of the plethora of young and olde Irish Anglo players.

That's probably because it's outside the brief of this thread. Hundreds of fine concertina players here but maybe they deserve a thread of their own.