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Subject: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 12 Jul 10 - 06:17 AM hi I occasionally use Spanish in my correspondence. On my desktop computer using XP I use the normal keyboard with ALTKEY Codes to get the special Spanish accented characters using the right hand numeric pad. So for inatance if I want to type an accented "e" I type ALT0233 etc. My desktop is down at the moment so I tried to write to my sister in Spain and find that using the ALTKEY Codes does not work on may laptop using Vista. Can anyone help me here on how I can achieve this?? Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Tyke Date: 12 Jul 10 - 06:35 AM Sounds like a problem with the left hand Fo Fo Valve! Try turning the Screen away from you and typing backwards. If that won't work find your nearest PC World once their ask for a Dutch Cap for a Spanish Key Board they should have juan. |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: GUEST,Ed Date: 12 Jul 10 - 06:44 AM I've never tried it, so no idea if it works, but I found this: The following are suggestions for users with laptop computers: Type as you normally would using your laptop computer. When you need to add a Spanish accent, hold down your Shift key and press the NumLock key. You should still be able to type normally on the keyboard. Add the accent by holding down the Alt key and Fn (function) key and then use the secondary numeric keypad located in the center of your keyboard to type the numeric sequence code. Once you are finished typing accents, you can toggle back to the regular keyboard configuration by pressing and holding down the Shift and pressing the NubLock. Now you can resume typing. Below are the numerical codes that correspond to the accented characters. Alt + 0225 á Alt + 0233 é Alt + 0237 í Alt + 0241 ñ Alt + 0243 ó Alt + 0250 ú Alt + 0252 ü Alt + 0191 ¿ Alt + 0161 ¡ Alt + 0193 Á Alt + 0201 É Alt + 0205 Í Alt + 0209 Ñ Alt + 0211 Ó Alt + 0218 Ú Alt + 0220 Ü Note: On some laptops you may need to use the secondary numeric keypad that is located in the center of the keyboard when you type in the accent codes. |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Boho Date: 12 Jul 10 - 08:35 AM I think there's a more intuitive way of doing it using the Ctrl key. Eg, if you type Ctrl + tilde then n, supposedly you should get an n with a tilde on top. described here under Method 1 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:34 AM hi Bozo and Guest Ed. Thanks for your help. Unfortunately none of these worked for me using the ALTKEY Code or the other suggestins listed. I was able to fudge it so that I can get accented characters using INSERT in my word processing prog.but am not able to get exclamation marks,question marks etc. I don't know whether this affects anything but I use Microsoft Works Word. cheers and thanks MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Arthur_itus Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:40 AM Mike Have you tried plugging a normal keyboard in and trying that. I always used a normal keyboard if using it at home. |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Newport Boy Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:47 AM A lot of laptop keyboards have a numeric keypad embedded in the keyboard, in the JKL region. This is usually accessed by holding the Fn key. If you have this, hold Fn, then use ALT-0233 on the embedded number keys as usual. The ALT trick doesn't work with the normal number keys. Phil |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Bill D Date: 12 Jul 10 - 11:39 AM I use AllChars to semi-automate the process. It allows you to use two key combinations to enter many characters. éóá ¼ ° |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 12 Jul 10 - 02:36 PM 1. You may need to choose a font that contains the special characters you want. With most recent laptops and operating systems, the fonts commonly loaded by default are "enhanced Unicode" character sets that will have common ones, but the user of the other laptop may have set an older "ANSI only" default. Some OS include the ability to search for an alternate font that contains the char you code, but older ones may only be able to use the default. 2. For the Alt-#### method you've been using, the numbers generally must be typed on the Number Pad. The method is normally called the Alt-NumPad method. Lots of laptops don't have a separate NumPad but use an "embedded" one in which a set of keys within the alpha keyboard can be used as a NumPad. You may have "turn on" the NumPad each time you need a special character (and turn it off to continue). The quick keys needed to toggle the NumPad function on/off vary from one laptop to another. As commented by Newport Boy, the Fn key may be all that's needed, as this is a common (not quite universal) toggle for NumPad on laptops. 3. All Windows versions include a "Character Map" that you should be able to find at Start|Programs|Accessories{System Tools. You can Select the chars you want, Copy them, and paste in a document from which you can copy them one at a time to where you want them. In some versions, when you "click" on a char, the ANSI (decimal)or Unicode (Hex) code will be shown on the lower bar, so you may be able to use this method to find codes you want (see number 5. below). 4. If you use Word, there are a number of "shortcuts," mostly as described by Boho just above. Most consist of pressing Ctl while typing the "accent" and then the character to be accented. Word "autoreplaces" with the accented character when you hit the next key. Some of these shortcuts may work in a few other programs, but they're not necessarily "universal." 5. In most versions of Word still in use, if you type the hex code for a Unicode character, and immediately hit Alt-X, the character appears. The Alt-X is a toggle, so if you put the cursor immediately to the right of a character and hit Alt-X it will show you the hex code you'd need to type to get that char with this method, or you can "read the code" from CharMap for most of them as described above at number 3. Using "|" to show the cursor position, typing 00C6| and Alt-X should give you Æ. Putting your cursor to show Æ| and hitting Alt-X should show you 00C6. So far as I know, this only works in WORD, but it may have been picked up in some other programs. 6. It may help to "load" a language that uses the chars you want. Recent Windows versions can have multiple languages loaded (at startup) with any one of them selected as the default. With the methods above, you shouldn't have to do this, but it's an available thing that sometimes enhances other features. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 12 Jul 10 - 09:54 PM You should be able to plug the keyboard from your desktop computer into the laptop. Vista will recognize it via PnP, and you don't need to turn off the laptop keyboard in order to use it. If it's a serial keyboard, you may discover that many laptops don't have a serial port; but you might get lucky. Note that on the "real keyboard" the Alt-NumPad method of entering character ANSI codes doesn't work until you turn on NumLock. The NumPad on real keyboards is an "Arrow Pad" with NumLock off. My laptop doesn't have a NumLock key (that I can find) but the Fn key automatically switches the "embedded numpad" on with NumLock "always on." Note that the Fn key must be held down continuously to use the NumPad continuously – at least on my laptop. Since there's no display of the keys pressed with Fn-Alt pressed, I found it somewhat difficult entering Fn-Alt-NumPad characters correctly without more practice than I'm willing to do; but the method does work for me. I did IMMEDIATELY notice that Alt-Fn-#### doesn't work on my laptop. I MUST press and hold Fn and then press and hold Alt, and both of those must be held down until the numbers are all entered. If I press Alt first, and then Fn, I get nothing, even if I hold them both down while entering the numbers. It might be worth checking whether the laptop you're using accepts "either order of entry" or just to make sure that it still doesn't work when you do them strictly in order. For some older Windows versions, "leading zeros" were ignored by the Alt-NumPad method, but that's not quite true for Vista. If I type Alt-128 I get a different character (Ç = hex 00C7) than if I type Alt-0128 (€ = hex 20AC). (Microsoft has "mapped" ANSI 128 to the € euro on US keyboards, but may have done something different elsewhere for keyboards with a key for the €.) It's probably safest to always use "four digits" for Alt-NumPad entry now. There are a few other "shortcuts" implemented, rarely well documented. IFF your wimp-Word does the hex code Alt-x thing, that's probably the easiest method if Alt-NumPad really doesn't' work. If you have a Word document with the chars you want in it, placing the cursor immediately to the right of a char and hitting Alt-x should show you the hex number for that char. If you type that number elsewhere and immediately (without spacing etc) hit Alt-x, you should get the character. Early Works Word were little better than DOS COPY CON >, but what came with Vista Home Basic was reportedly very much like a recent obsolete version of "real Word." I just can't remember which Word version they claimed it emulated. Try an Alt-x with your cursor anywhere in a Word document. If anything changes, it probably works. Even a blank space is hex 0020. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 10:50 AM Hi John, Many thanks for your very comprehensive replies. I haven't had chance to try them all out yet but the ones I have I can't get to work. On my laptop ( a Sony Vaio ) the fn key does not appear to have any use as far as I can tell. I know that on some keyboards this does bring in the Numeric Pad using keys M<J<K<L<U>I>O etc. but it has no effect on this keyboard. I am going to try to bring up the Spanish Language settings as an alternative and just toggle in and out as this seems to be about the best (only) solution I can see that might work. I will let you know how I go on. Many thanks as usual for your great help. MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 10:55 AM Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Arthur_itus - PM Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:40 AM "Mike Have you tried plugging a normal keyboard in and trying that. I always used a normal keyboard if using it at home." hi arthur I have only one keyboard which is a PS2 connection and I need a USB to PS2 converter ?? to try to connect it to my laptop. If I can't get other suggested solutions to work I will try to get a converter and give it a go. Many thanks for your suggestion. Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 10:57 AM Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Newport Boy - PM Date: 12 Jul 10 - 10:47 AM "A lot of laptop keyboards have a numeric keypad embedded in the keyboard, in the JKL region. This is usually accessed by holding the Fn key. If you have this, hold Fn, then use ALT-0233 on the embedded number keys as usual. The ALT trick doesn't work with the normal number keys. Phil " Hi Phil I have tried this and as I have said in my earlier reply to John, it doesn't work on my laptop. Thanks for the suggestion Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 11:01 AM Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Bill D - PM Date: 12 Jul 10 - 11:39 AM "I use AllChars to semi-automate the process. It allows you to use two key combinations to enter many characters. éóá ¼ °" Hi Bill Many thanks for this. I have had a look at it and as a computer "illiterate" it looks a little complicated to me. I will take out some time to try to fathom it out as it does seem to be something that should suit what I want it to do. Cheers Mikel2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 13 Jul 10 - 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Tyke - PM Date: 12 Jul 10 - 06:35 AM "Sounds like a problem with the left hand Fo Fo Valve! Try turning the Screen away from you and typing backwards. If that won't work find your nearest PC World once their ask for a Dutch Cap for a Spanish Key Board they should have juan." I tried PC World and they don't stock Dutch Caps. The suggested that I should buy their special mint-flavoured condom as a f.....g great replacement. Cheers MikeL2 PS they didn't explain how I should use the condom.....any suggestions ??? |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Bill D Date: 13 Jul 10 - 11:24 AM Since Spanish is most of what you want to manage, there are only a few things you would 'need' to learn. If the program is open, you just press the 'ctrl' key, then the ' followed by the e for é. It is almost intuitive for the rest of the characters. If you right-click on the icon in the bar, you can choose 'help', and see the list of characters for different categories... then, selecting 'Char table' at the bottom shows the 2 key combination for any selected character..as in.... ctrl + ~ + n gives ñ. (you do have to precede each special character with 'ctrl'.) (there is even a 'configuration' menu which allows changing 'ctrl' to 'shift' or 'escape' keys...but I never bothered.) I hope this helps, and that you find a comfortable way to do what you need. |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jul 10 - 12:41 AM This may be a long post since I'm too lazy to build a fancy table. (For some of the characters below, you may also want to view in a larger than usual font size.) The Alt-NumPad method of entering characters is "officially" limited to numbers between zero and 255. Some larger numbers work sometimes, but it's best to use Hex numbers, and the official Unicode character codes (which are in Hex in the Unicode tables). Several of the low numbers have no visible glyph associated, so there are some blanks. For html posts, you can code a character by its DECIMAL number: &#nnnn; where the & announces the start of a code, the # says that the instruction is a number, the nnnn is the number, and the final ";" says that the code is done. You can use the hex number in the same way, simply by adding an "x" to the code: &#xnnnn; where again the & announces the start of a code, the # says that the instruction is a number, the x says the number is in hexadecimal, nnnn is the hexadecimal number and the ";" closes the code. In Word, you can type the hexadecimal number, and before spacing hit Alt-X and the character will (or should) magically appear. For DECIMAL numbers 0001 through 0256, corresponding to HEXADECIMAL numbers from 0001 through 00FF:
For Windows, the Alt-NumPad method may give different results for some numbers, because when you select a language a different character map is used by the computer, and/or autoreplace functions may be invoked for your computer. Windows, and computers to use it with, are regionalized by where the computer is purchased so the differences depend on where you are and are NOT THE SAME for computers in different "language areas." John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jul 10 - 12:50 AM Anyone have an idea where a person might be if people are using: Hex 028C |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jul 10 - 12:54 AM Accidental post above: Anyone have a use for: Hex 028C = ʌ Hex 028D = ʍ or Hex 028D = ʎ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Jul 10 - 01:16 AM Should MikeL - or anyone else - find the hex coding handy, it might be of interest to have the "simple Word" on converting decimal numbers to their hex equivalents. Although it may look complicated, it's really quite simple once you've done it. In WORD, Ctl-F9 will insert a pair of field braces { } with your cursor between them. (You can't type the {}, you have to use Ctl-F9 or "Insert Field".) Type an "=" followed by a simple equation that gets the decimal number. (e.g. for 251 make it look like {=251}. type in the "format" \*HEX to look like {=251 \*HEX} and hit F9. Word should immediately show you that the HEX value of decimal 251 is FB. It's recommended that you add zeros onto the front to make it four characters - 00FB for use in coding. If you like, Ctl-Shift-F9 will "unlink" the field so that it's an ordinary number and no longer has the magical powers of a field. The "number format switch" (\*) only works for the results of a field, which is why you create an "equation" field with a result that is the decimal number you want to see in hex form. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 17 Jul 10 - 09:15 AM hi guys Many thanks for all your help, and especially John. I tried most of your suggestions with mixed results. In the end I went for John's suggestion to add a Spanish keyboard layout and use that for actually typing in Spanish or I can just toggle to the Spanish layout if I only want to use a few accents etc. So success ñ ¡ ¿ a´ e´ o´ ¡¡¡¡¡¡ Many thanks Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Jul 10 - 03:22 PM The language keyboard layout and swapping languages is actually what Microsoft recommended in their "big book on International Languages;" but the book was too big to recommend, and our copy is still apparently "in a box" afer our move. Microsoft had a web page where you could look at any of the 120 or so keyboards that are "standard" for different languages and different parts of the world; but it's set up so that you can only look at one at a time and they've made it hard to make notes. My recollection is that when you hover your mouse pointer over the Shift, Alt, etc key the picture changes to show what keys print different chars with a bucky key, so you have to lay the pointer on the key for each variation and use screen capture (Alt-PrtScn) to get a picture you can clip into a document or image editing program. The last time I posted a link here to the "International Keyboards" page there was talk about the "virtual keyboard" you could flip up on screen, to click individual special characters; but it didn't work well with the OS versions that were common then, and I've never gone back to see if it's better - or even available - with current versions. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Jul 10 - 04:17 PM I can never remember all those codes, so I go to Character Map and copy the characters I need, and paste them at the bottom of my document. Then I type something distinctive wherever I want to use a special character, like zzz for the German character ß or nnn for the Spanish ñ. When I'm finished with the document, I copy each character I want, and paste it into the "replace with" box of the "replace" function. Works pretty well, and I don't have to tax my memory. -Joe- P.S. John in Kansas, you may be able to sell those upside-down characters to Bill D, a rather upside-down character himself...(sorry, Bill) |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Edthefolkie Date: 17 Jul 10 - 04:34 PM You can of course use Character Map to select the appropriate character visually rather than remembering umpteen ANSI codes and key combinations - admittedly it's not as quick but I got fed up with command line interfaces around 1973. Works on everything I run apart from Picasa text! In XP it's under %SystemRoot%\system32\charmap.exe, you can always stick a shortcut on the desktop or whatever, and keep Character Map open while typing. You could no doubt write a macro to fire it up every time you start Word! Plenty of helpful articles in XP help and online, presumably also available within Vista and 7. |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Jul 10 - 06:50 PM Char Map works okay, but instead of going back to it and trying to remember where the characters you want are in the very long listings of characters in the more enhanced fonts, just copy them once into a separate "Chars I Use.doc" and put it close to where you're likely to keep docs that use them. If you put a "!" at the beginning of the filename, it will almost always appear at the top of the listing in Win Explorer and will be easy to find - until you've used the ! trick for so many "important documents" that your list of things you need to find quickly gets too long to find anything and you'll have to start using a "!!" for really important stuff, and eventually !!! for really very important stuff ... until ..... John |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: Bill D Date: 17 Jul 10 - 08:38 PM Why Joe...¿?..I haven't been allowed to be upside down since my neck vertebrae started giving me problems ...even before Mudcat came along.. ☺...so I just reverse the characters ▲ ▼ ╝ ╗ ┴ ┬.... except for those I can't.. ├ Φ ∞ You can get all the characters anyone *I* know is likely to need by going to: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/index.htm, but that can be a bit overwhelming, so a much easier selection, with immediate images, is here: http://www.tedmontgomery.com/tutorial/ALTchrc.html (I like to mention now & then that not 'everyone' has WORD, or is familiar with all of its whims. I almost never use it, preferring to use simpler programs (free, of course) which do 95% of what WORD might do, with a lot less aggravation ...such as AbiWord or Atlantis Nova) Good to have lots of options, hmmm ¿ ...I mean ? |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: MikeL2 Date: 18 Jul 10 - 09:34 AM hi ed In my own position I don't have the problem with XP on my desktop. The ALTCODES work, and particularly in Spanish it is simple to remember the codes for the characters you need. On a laptop it is different (at least on mine in Vista ) as you don't have the righthand number pad. I am firmly from the KISS school. Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Tech - ALTKEY Codes on Laptop From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Jul 10 - 07:26 PM Firefox Plugin LeeyKey allows lots of cute tricks - including typing in reverse, ROT13, etc |
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