Apollonio Cittern is neat!

Subject: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 09:29 AM

I bought a bell-shaped Cittern from Nick Apollonio and it arrived yesterday after being held hostage by Canada Customs for a ridiculous length of time. Fortunately, they did not damage it in any way.

This is a really gorgeous instrument with great sound. It has a red spruce top and South American mahogany body. The sustain on the Cittern is really something to hear, with a lot of lovely overtones. It's almost like you can strike a chord...go out and check the mail...fill up the bird feeder...come back in and that chord is still gently humming if you go close and listen. ;-D

So now I have to learn how to play it. I've tried a C-G-C-G-C tuning to start off, and that sounds good, but I may raise it a whole tone to D-A-D-A-D and see if I like that better. Nick supplied a chord chart which I am studying. I've also tried experimenting and discovered that if you finger a "D" chord as on guitar, you get a nice minor chord on the Cittern....which minor I'm not quite sure yet...will have to compare to guitar and find out, but it sounds great.

The ordinary Shubb capo works fine on this instrument. That's good, since I have a couple of spare Shubbs around here.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 09:53 AM

Pictures, LH - pictures! My good friend and luthier Ian Chisholm has recently been making baritone citterns. The first was commissioned by a guy called Doc Rossi, an American-born musician who now lives in France. You can see Ian's work here, and here's the instrument in action. I'd love to see and hear the Apollonio instrument.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 10:13 AM

Happy cittern fun! I tune my Fylde to GCGDG but my previous Freshwater, which had a longer scale length, I tuned DADGD. The current tuning is more suited to melody and chord playing but I usually capo it up to sing to. I found that I had to play around with string gauges to get the sound I wanted. I've just this minute been messing about with amplification as I recently had a Headway Snake pickup fitted - which sounds ACE! Enjoy!

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 10:53 AM

I thought stringed instruments are designed to resonate to certain frequencies. What tuning does the maker recommend?

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: gnu
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:00 AM

Pics... I agree.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

The maker recommends the two tunings I mentioned, but he says there are a great many other tunings that work fine on it.

For pics, try this:

Cittern

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Crowhugger
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 02:27 PM

D
r
o
o
l
!

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 03:36 PM

Okay about the strings. Thanks, LH.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 04:54 PM

"Cittern on the Dock of the Bay?"..............LMAO......I love it!!!

I can't imagine anyone around here not knowing about Nick Apollonio, but if you don't and you have a spare 14 hours, just mention him to Kendall.


Spaw

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:19 PM

Or me. I feel the same way about my laud - it's the SUSTAIN. I always think about Spinal Tap - had I played anything, the sustain would have been amazing.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:54 PM

Praise the laud

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 07:04 PM

And pass the flatpicks.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 11:34 PM

Hmmm. I think I might try a DADGA tuning on it. Reason being, I love playing in DADGAD on the guitar, so it would make for a very handy transition, I think. Or maybe CGCFG?

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:14 AM

If you're playing a D shape on the CGCGC tuning, then the top 4 strings would be played as G-D-Bb-D - which I would take to be a G minor. G-B-D is the G major triad and the flattened 3rd - Bb - would make it a minor.

Would it not be more fun - if a little harder - to try the CGCGC tuning on the cittern, rather than the more conventional DADGAD? True, you can switch between guitar and cittern more easily, but you'd lose the pleasure and interest of exploring different note voicings and combinations. I play tenor guitar as well as 6-string, and it's certainly more interesting - and more fun - to play in the standard CGDA tenor tuning than the top 4 strings of a regular guitar, like some players do.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: theleveller
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 06:30 AM

"Would"

I don't know what the scale length is but I suspect that in that tuning the strings would be too slack to get a decent tone - or you'd have to use very heavy strings. The problem is mainly with the lowest strings - fine if you just want to use them as a drone, but it would be very hard to fret. If it's a long scalde length (such as in a bouzouki) it's less of a problem.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 07:09 AM

I suspect that in that tuning the strings would be too slack to get a decent tone - or you'd have to use very heavy strings

Exactly the same question came to mind when I was reading elsewhere about Martin Carthy's current guitar tuning - CGCDGA.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:09 AM

I've tried it with DADGD. Sounds good and works well for chording.

I've also tried it with CGCGC and DADAD. They both sound fine and provide some useful chords as well. The "C" tuning is about as low as you'd want to go, but it does sound okay even on the bass end. Nick apparently prefers it in the "C" tuning.

I guess I'll just keep experimenting with those three tunings until I determine which one I like the best.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 12:10 AM

I'm hopelessly addicted to Nick's instruments. I'm expecting a 2007 lightly used cittern in the mail this week, if the snow ever lets up. Spruce top, angelique back and sides, rosewood neck and bridge, bell shape. Something tells me I'm about to fall in love all over again....

Now I just need to learn to play it....

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 04:41 PM

I just got a lovely wee guitar-shaped mandola that Nick had on E-Bay.
What a magnificent sound - volume, sustain, yet withal, mellow.
Looks like a baby Martin D-18.
That ol' boy can flat-out make one helluvan instrument.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:13 PM

We should organize an Apollonio owners' group.

We could start up with a convention at Kendall and Jacqui's place. We could ask them for permission afterward.

Maybe Kendall could talk Gordon Bok into coming, and he and Nick giving a talk on his participation in the development of the 12-strings, with numerous musical examples interspersed.

Well, there's nothing wrong with having big dreams....

Peter

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:36 PM

Of course, If Nick were to bring one or two unsold instruments--strictly for demo purposes, of course--he would probably end up leaving with some money and no instruments.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:40 PM

*I* am STILL waiting for pics! REAL pics.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:30 AM

Peter - both Kendall and I think that is an excellent idea - permission granted right now.

Seriously - a bit of lead time would be needed to find a date to suit everybody, but I think we need to discuss this further.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:48 AM

"I guess I'll just keep experimenting with those three tunings until I determine which one I like the best. "

As usual you old Canuck you have it all wrong. The American way is to buy three matching instruments so you can have one for each tuning. That way you'll never have to retune.Easy.

And yes - I'm always happy to set you on the right path.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 03:37 PM

I'm in. Make it in the summer and plan well ahead. Jacqui, let's e-mail about this, ok?

As for my new cittern, it came today, and I'm in love all over again. WOW.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:25 PM

Count me in as a member too.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:52 PM

Why did the Sorcerer's apprentice just cross my mind?

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 08:08 PM

I dunno know. I thought more of the bear side of the TeddyBears' Picnic.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,nikos
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 10:41 PM

Thanx everyone. I am in the latter stages of a 12 stringer for Walt Michael ( whammydiddle virtuoso and organiser of Common Ground on the Hill. I aim to get it done by 1/30 to show to Rory Block...says she is not into 12's for whatever reason--- maybe the usual are too bland for her (likely). we'll see what happens. This one I predict will be a thunder pump.
The cittern thing: Walt wants a workshop at his gathering on building and/or playing; maybe I can do both. It takes place at McDaniel College I think, July 3-10.
About tuning a 12 string: Gordon says he always tunes the other 11 before he finds the one that was out. Someone once asked me how long it takes to tune one---the old hammer dulcimer punch line "nobody knows".
n

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 02:56 PM

Little Hawk:

OK. For one brief instant, you succeeded in making me deeply envious. There!! Happy??

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,Floyd Brigdon
Date: 18 Jan 11 - 02:48 PM

Count me in as en enthusiastic member of the Apollonio owners club, too. I own a bell cittern (tuned DADAD, nicknamed "Count Bassy") and an OM/bouzouki...

Floyd

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 12:24 PM

Here's a home recording of "Welcome Royal Charlie" played on my new (to me) Apollo cittern, tuned to CGCGC. What a lovely instrument!

Here's a photo of the cittern.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 04:57 PM

I unfortunately am not currently a member of the owners' group. My ex-wife has one Nikos made custom for her. She got to keep it in the divorce as I don't play stringed insturments. Lady Hillary will probably become a member in the not too distant future.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 05:41 PM

Did you see a picture of my stunning profile, Amos? ;-)

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: IvanB
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 11:21 PM

Dan, I have to say you've progressed well from needing "to learn to play it" on the 12th to your performance of "Welcome Royal Charlie." Sounds great, and thanks for posting it.

Don't know if Nikos has shipped anything since he sent the adirondack and koa guitar I won on eBay, but I definitely qualify as a newer member of the owners' club. I'd have to say I'm really a pretty lousy guitar player, but I picked up the Apollo and was 100% improved instantly! It's got a booming bass and singing trebles which all balance admirably. And the sustain is akin to what LH wrote about his cittern. It's definitely making me want to work on my playing.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,Roger in Baltimore
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 06:12 PM

I saw Geoff Kaufman at a house concert the other night. I was impressed with the tone and the appearance of his guitar. It had no obvious branding on it. Afterwards, I complimented his guitars tone, sustain, and appearance and I enquired who built the 6-string. He said, "Nick Appollnio built it." I told him he had said enough. It was my first encounter with an Apollonio 6-string. I believe I have a fairly deaf ear for guitar tone quality, but Geoff's instrument's sound stood out even to someone as tone deaf as myself.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 11:46 AM

Nick has another one of these beauties - this one flamed teak with a western cedar top - on Ebay now. These bell citterns are something AMAZING - you have to hear them to believe them - it's easily worth twice what he's asking.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: FEB
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:16 AM

I just discovered this thread, but I have been playing one of Nick's bell citterns for about three years and I can't recommend them highly enough. At just about every gig I have played, at least one person (usually a player themselves) has come up after the show to ask about it. I have yet to find anything to match it in tone or playability. For another picture, see https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180147_183829744986504_107786252590854_372265_6402013_n.jpg (and there are others in different folders, too, though you may run into some renfaire costuming in the search, so be forewarned... ;^) )

Floyd

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:47 AM

Anyone considering one of these citterns should have a look at Helen Marshall's stunning video "Sumurun," played on a custom bell cittern, oak with a cedar top.

Not only does it highlight Nick's work, it also makes me want to hear a lot more of Helen Marshall.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: ollaimh
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:19 PM

i like dadad tuning for my round back cittern, an italian style member of the mandolin family, but you should be able to tune higher on yours. my modern cittern--made by the ontario luthier nathan currie, i tune adada or gdadg. you get mandola range with still a lot of bass reach. this range is better for tunes, however if you are playing song accompanyment and counter melody to tunes then dadad or some thing like that works great.

do rossi touts gdadg, i bought his book but i haven't cracked it yet as i have been working on a book of balkan tunes and another of skene manuscript tunes. mostly i'm just trying to get my chops back after not playing all the time since i left toronto

the celtic bouzouki tunning that is most common is gdad, so gdadg is just a step awasy. you get easier key changes than adada, but if you are playing in d and g a lot the latter is fine.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: ollaimh
Date: 28 Oct 11 - 09:40 PM

i forgot to mention that you have to take into accont the scale length of your instrument. yours in probably a 23 or 24 inch scale. then to tune way up to g to g or a to a of g to a you would need very light strings. if a shorter scale, like 20 inches to 22, then heavier strings. you may have to mix and match a bit untill you get what workd best and what you like.

the scale length i am refering to is the distance between the nut and the saddle, otherwise known as the resonating string length. you will have to adjust the intonation for different tunnings as well--asumming you have a moveable bridge.

if not you may have to intonate the nut and saddle and you may have to limit yourself to a small range of different tunnings.

apollonio citterns i've seen are usually a long scale, which is also better suited for counter melody and song accompanyment than lead tune playing. big streaches. however donal lunny played a long scale for years and made it sing!

good luck and let us know how it goes

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM

I know what you mean about scale length and playing instrumentals, Ollaimh, though in my case it's partly because I only know one tuning! One of the nice things about Nick's instruments is that they capo up so beautifully, without losing any tone quality in intonation. And if a neck adjustment ever needs to be made, it takes about 20 seconds. Even I can handle that.

I imagine with practice the instrumentals will come. And as an accompaniment for singing - oh yes, I'm still in love.

Nick has relisted the cittern - the new close date is November 8. At this price, it's a steal.

I never knew I needed a cittern until I played one of Nick's. Now I'm a hopeless addict.

Dan

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM

Hey, Dan, I still have my Apollonio Bell Cittern here...very similar to the one now on Ebay...and it's in mint condition, just like new. I tried for 3 months to sell it at the Twelfth Fret in Toronto and no go...I don't think most of their customers have any idea what it is...nor maybe their salesmen either.

So I've taken it back from the store and I am selling it privately...for $1,100 (either US dollar or Canadian dollar). I can hand deliver this instrument to anyone if they come to Toronto or to Barrie, Ontario or Orillia, Ontario (both are north of Toronto).

Please spread the word to people you know who might be interested. This is a typical Apollo Cittern with glorious sound, beautiful tonewoods, and beautiful workmanship.

I tried it out for about a year, love the sound, but never really got into the playing technique required to master the instrument. I guess I'm basically just a guitar and harmonica guy. ;-) So that's why I'm selling it.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM

Why don't you email Tony McManus and ask him if he is interested.

He lives in Elora, not too far from you.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:52 PM

Okay. How would I contact him? Has he got a website?

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:58 PM

Your best bet would be to send him a message through Facebook, if you are a Facebook member.

He is a very active Facebook user, and although he does have a website, I get the impression that he doesn't spend a great amount of time there.

If you can't send him a Facebook message ( I don't know if you need to be a registered "friend" to do so ), then PM me with your email address and any other contact details you wish to disclose, and I will send him a message.

He does like collecting instruments, and a cittern would certainly find a niche in his collection, so I would say that your chances might be quite good.

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,Rob Zamites
Date: 01 Mar 15 - 04:11 PM

Kicking an old thread back to life...I found Nikos through a series of not great events, and now things are great. He's building me a booming cannon of a cittern and I absolutely cannot wait to play it.

He's a joy to work with, a classy fellow with a great sense of humor, and a passion for his craft.

Rob

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 15 - 03:53 AM

Is this design Nicks or is it based on an old instrument in a museum?

Subject: RE: Apollonio Cittern is neat!
From: GUEST,Rob Zamites
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 03:21 PM

The Bell Cittern is (as far as I can tell) a collaboration of Nikos and Gordon Bok. My cittern is finished, and I'm just waiting for him to ship it. The nasty winter really pushed back his ability to finish instruments, however, I am more than certain the wait will have been worth it :)