Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:51 AM

As I was strolling up our village street to get the Sunday paper just now, I imagined one of the Doc Watson songs I perform - "Sitting On Top Of The World" - done in my (reasonably) native Lancashire accent...

"'Twere in't spring, one summer day,
Me sweet 'eart left me.
Eee, she went away.
And now she's gone,
An 'ahm not worrit,
Ahm sittin' on't top o't world."

My father's family were all from Lancashire - Westhoughton mainly - and my mother's from Suffolk (Lowestoft). I was born in Chorley in the last years of the war and we moved almost immediately after my father was demobbed from the RAF to spend several years in Glasgow - where I acquired a good Glaswegian accent.

We returned to Lancashire in the early '50s, but then moved to the northwest of that county - on the border with what was then Westmoreland. In the early 60's I went to college in Leeds (had my passport stamped at the border) and, after returning home for a bit, moved to London. In '76 moved to Sussex and have been here ever since.

So, what accent shall I use tonight, at my local monthly session/singaround, as I perform a mixture of Jimmy Rodgers songs, music-hall stuff and any old tosh that takes my fancy? Bit of a problem, eh, what?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:41 AM

Ah, you're quite right, Michael - 'Twas the What is a Folksinger thread:

From: MtheGM - PM
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:28 AM

"...American accent. I've met people from outside the folk world who find it hard to sing in any other kind of accent." Brian Peters above
.,,.
Indeed. A dear friend of mine who is a gifted singer-songwriter in the pop genre, Marcie Mycroft, is a N Londoner like myself. She has sites in Reverbnation &c, and several youtubes & is really beginning to make the breakthru ~~ approaches from agents, airtime on indie radio channels, fandom on Facebook, Twitter &c. You can find her by googling. I've asked her why she sings with an American accent when her songs are not in any way specifically American in context, and she replies that she just goes into American-accent mode when she sings and has never, from childhood onwards, been able to do otherwise. "It's just," she sez, "the way songs like mine are sung".

~M~

Must get out more!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:36 AM

No it wasn't, Will. It was just a copy-paste of one I posted simultaneously on the What is a Folksinger thread where the topic of American accents came up & I thought it would go suitably on this one I OPd some time since also. Can you give me a ref to a supposed earlier one. I don't remember ever having mentioned Marcie on this forum before today.

Happy New Year to you too.

~M~

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:18 AM

Michael - a Happy New Year to you - and I see that your recent post on Marcie Mycroft is word for word the same as one you posted many months ago!

Just wondered what prompted you to resurrect the thread - not that it wasn't fun to read through it all again... :-)

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

Indeed, church Latin had different pronunciations in different regions; some musicologists are very fond of trying to get Spanish Renaissance polyphony to sound like the "right kind" of Latin. Which I suppose counts as "putting on" an accent, although to be fair most people probably don't have a natural accent for Latin!

Ironically, because I was a choirboy in Liverpool and thus learned to sing in Latin surrounded by other choirboys in Liverpool, when I sing Latin I sound more Scouse than when I sing a lot of stuff in English.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:29 AM

The obvious parallel might be the use of Latin in the Middle Ages - but I don't think the Carmina Burana would necessarily have been sung in a fake Roman accent.

I'll remember to give Marcie Mycroft a swerve.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 03:18 AM

A dear friend of mine who is a gifted singer-songwriter in the pop genre, Marcie Mycroft, is a N Londoner like myself. She has sites in Reverbnation &c, and several youtubes & is really beginning to make the breakthru ~~ approaches from agents, airtime on indie radio channels, fandom on Facebook, Twitter &c. You can find her by googling. I've asked her why she sings with an American accent when her songs are not in any way specifically American in context, and she replies that she just goes into American-accent mode when she sings and has never, from childhood onwards, been able to do otherwise. "It's just," she sez, "the way songs like mine are sung".

~M~

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 03:35 PM

Shirley Collins is a very pleasant woman.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 02:59 PM

Tunesmith--

Most people within the cultural groups we're talking about, I think, make a distinction between singing and speaking. There are different aesthetics and "rules" for each of these forms of expression. They might be quite similar or very very different.

Singing certain things precisely in one's "own (speaking) accent" is just as and no more "artificial" as doing it in another accent that is "embedded" within that song's style.

Accent is an unreliable indicator of authenticity, and correlating the expression of the "self" directly and exclusively with accent seems a bit shallow. Come out from under your provincial rock in this case, and check out what people are doing/have done musically around the world. There is so much more to it than what we might see through the narrow lenses created by the agenda-driven early English musical folklore scholars.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 02:17 PM

It's a case of "Each to his own".
End of.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 02:03 PM

For what it's worth, if you study the song lists of singers like 'Pop' Maynard you find irish and scottish songs amongst the english. Did 'Pop' affect an irish accent when singing "The Pride of Kildare"? I very much doubt it. Similarly, songs like "Butter and Cheese and All" are not limited to,say,Norfolk.
If someone feels the need to 'ape' the accent of the singer they learnt a song from then that's their affair. As far as I'm concerned it's completely unnecessary with the exception perhaps of blues/R'n'B,calypso/ska/reggae and jazz and film 'standards'. "You say potato....." sounds ridiculous in English RP!
Otherwise I've no idea why some british singers apparently feel they have to adopt a 'mid-Atlantic accent' when they sing. Try asking them.As far as I'm aware I've never used an accent- and I sing not only songs from the British Isles but also from North America and Australia.It's not that I can't do the accents, I'm up on stage to sing songs, not to do vocal imitations. Pete Seeger manages without accents as do Martin Carthy, Pete Coe, June Tabor etc etc.
As an aside, working as a voice-over in Germany I notice that quite a few potential clients want 'Neutral/Mid-Atlantic English'. I think this is a chimera since the differences in RP between the British Isles and North America will betray and locate the speaker immediately - 'news','schedule','potato' etc etc. Not only that, what a lot of v-o colleagues consider to be Neutral/Mid-Atlantic turns out to be, on the basis of the demos on their websites/Youtube vids etc, very clearly north american english.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 01:53 PM

Backwoodsman said,

"I never sing Irish songs because I can't mimic an Irish accent and they sound ridiculous sung in an English accent"

Does that mean that someone singing "She Moved through the fair" in an English accent would sound ridiculous?

Or, vice versa, an Irishman singing "The Seeds of Love" in an Irish accent would also sound ridiculous.

Surely, not!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 01:29 PM

I sing songs of English and American origin. i never sing Irish songs because I can't mimic an Irish accent and they sound ridiculous sung in an English accent. Likewise, I don't sing Scottish songs for exactly the same reason.

However, I am able to do a decent representation of a US accent (albeit the aforementioned and non-regional 'Mid-Atlantic' accent) so I sing in that accent as and when appropriate.

That's my opinion, and its what I do. You can do as you like - absolutely your prerogative - but FFS stop pontificating and telling those of us that do as I do that we're somehow 'wrong' - it's only your opinion, which has no more weight than anyone else's.

And WTF am I wasting my time justifying myself to you? You do it your way, that's fine by me. I'll do it my way, and I don't give a FF whether or not I'm graced with your approval.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 10:40 AM

Backwoodsman, your reasoning doesn't stand up!
Following your argument, Irish folk songs should always be sung with an Irish accent! ( even if the singer is from America, France, China or wherever)
Do you agree with that statement?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 08:18 AM

I sing in my own voice - I don't try to sound like anyone else.

But we're discussing accents, and I sing in the accent appropriate to the music I'm performing, and American music sounds ridiculous sung in anything other than an American accent, IMO (and that of the vast majority I'd like to bet). You have a different opinion - your choice - but that doesn't mean you're right, it just means you're out of step.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 06:29 AM

Backwoodsman, as I said, to me singing in ones own voice is important, but for you it isn't.
It's a pity though, because you would be far more interesting - without any doubt - as a singer, if you sang you're R&B material in you natural voice! Why? Because, apart from anything esle, you would stand out from the crowd as a true individual rather than one of tens of thousands of Brits who adopt silly American accents.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 05:09 AM

I think we copy the sounds we hear and enjoy. For instance, when I sing (make that 'sang') with my R&R band, I sang in an 'American' accent, because R&R came from the USA. But when I sing folk songs, I sing in my natural Lincolnshire, UK accent.

Do it any way that's good for you, and fuck the smart-arse know-it-alls who want to inflict their own warped opinions on everyone else.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 04:25 AM

"I should like to speak up here for Shirley Collins, my favourite English folk singer (I don't have many as it happens). She sings (sang :-( ) in her own natural voice with her own accent, not an affectation in sight, and it's wonderful."

Yes, Steve. I couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 04:12 AM

If you're happy with somebody from Newcastle singing in a pseudo-American accent that's fine; but for me...well, it's just plain silly!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 03:50 AM

Surely what is natural to you depends on human nature - and like Heinz soup, there are at least fifty seven varieties.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 03:09 AM

Well, of course, for me "the truth" is important.
Singing in a "foreign" accent to me is like singing out of tune: It grates!
If it doesn't matter to you, fine, but, just like singing in tune is important to most people, singing in ones natural accent is essential for me.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 12:31 AM

Plus, the song is American, referencing Montauk, Martha's Vineyard, and Block Island Sound so doing an American-style accent would be kind of justifiable. (Anecdote time: I once had a story (being revised) inspired more-or-less by this song, but set in Australia. It didn't work, and so I changed it to the Aleutian Islands.

Another question; Joel uses "ain't" twice in this song. "There ain't much future for a man who works the sea,/and there ain't no island left for islanders like me." Is "ain't" just a Southern American thing, or is it used all over America?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 12:23 AM

my advice is to not worry about this drivel, but to enjoy singing and playing music, to quote a song {we got a short time to be here and along time to be gone]

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 24 Sep 12 - 12:03 AM

So I can hear his accent in the song, and that IMO adds to my ability to see him in the role of a fisherman. And would you agree with me that the song requires the singer to somehow convince the audience that they feel the character's emotion?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 11:55 PM

*with the emphasis on the first syllable.*

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 11:53 PM

@ Gibb: "Alexa" sounds like "Alexer" when he sings it. And he drops his g's and final consonants. Like this:
"Well I'm on the (th pronounced as d) Downeaster Alexer, and I'm cruisin' through Block Island Sound." And "Montauk" is "Montawk". I'm no linguistic expert, but apparently dropped final consonants are common in New York accents, according to Wikipedia. And Atlantis sounds like "Atlantus".

But then, Australians (IME, at least I would) pronounce "Alexa" as "Alexer" as well.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 08:15 PM

Morwen,

IMO "Downeaster Alexa" doesn't contain any particular Long Island accent. Joel is not "acting" (as far as I can hear) to sound like a stereotypical or exaggerated Long Island fisherman. Joel's one speaking voice is a form of Long Island accent, but I don't hear that in the singing. So I guess I have never heard a Long Island accent as essential to the song.

As a matter of fact, I think its rare (i.e. in my experience) to EVER hear a Long Island accent sung in professional music. Singers with Long Island speaking voices, I imagine, adjust their accent when singing. This is just as UK singers might find it desirable or appropriate to adopt an American style of accent for singing, so do American singers adopt certain widely-appreciated singing accents that are different than their speaking accents.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 07:34 PM

BTW, nearly everyone here's heard the Billy Joel song The Downeaster Alexa, haven't they? That song sounds best in an American accent. That's why whenever I listen to Show Of Hands' version, I get thrown for a loop (No disrespect to Phil Beer, his singing and playing is great and that version is great), but IMO this song needs a bit of acting in it. You (g-you) have to really convince the listener that you are a fisherman from Long Island, which requires an accent. All this is just IMO, but that's how I sing the song.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 06:50 PM

I'm a northerner too. Solid Lancashire lad. You're OK, Tootler, as long as you don't end up sounding like Kate Rusby. OK OK, Kate Rusby an octave lower...

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 06:35 PM

I do agree that it is better to sing in your own natural accent but I do think Tunesmith is being just a little intolerant.

Tunesmith has pointed out one reason himself. You get so used to hearing songs sung in an American accent that you subconsciously pick it up and adopt it as part of your singing voice. This will be especially true if you have been listening to such songs from an early age when you very quickly pick up accents.

My normal speaking accent is Northern English and most of the time that is the accent I sing in but when I sing Scots songs people here tell me I sound Scots. That is probably because I spent four of my first seven years in Scotland. One person even identified it as Aberdeen which is where my mother came from and where I was born. It is not something conscious, though I do try to pronounce the words correctly.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 05:22 PM

What do Mike Waterson, peter Bellamy, Pavarotti, and Derek Brimstone have in common?

They do (did) it the way they believed it should be. If Adele sings in a different accent from her singing voice - so do (did) all these people

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 03:00 PM

McGrath of Harlow asks "Do[sung]"Mid-Atlantic accents" sound British to Americans?"

Well, I would say - most of the time - no!

Certainly, when the Beatles first went to American, they were asked why they sang in American accents. John replied, " Because it sells better"

Interestingly, most Brits are so so used to hearing fellow Brits singing in American accents that it doesn't consciously register and has to be pointed out.
For example, recently somebody that I was talking to was convinced that Adele sings in her natural voice; well, you only have to hear her switch from her English accent - when introducing songs - to her mid-Atlantic "singing voice" to know that isn't true.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 02:25 PM

Who is this Ralph Mctell anyway? British, but, according to bio, steeped in the playing of Blind Willie McTell, Blind Blake, Robert Johnson and other blues players. He even changed his name to match.
The mid -Atlantic accent, whatever that is, could be a bridge from these southern blues singers.
On the other hand, why not bury this thread in the mid-Atlantic and lissen up.

(Streets of London- not half-bad.)

Hmmm, now how would Slim Dusty do it?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 02:11 PM

Do "Mid-Atlantic accents" sound British to Americans?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 02:07 PM

Well, Billy Bragg laying his local accent on with a trowel is far more preferable than someone from London laying on an American accent with a trowel(and thousands of singers fall into that category!)

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 01:59 PM

I should like to speak up here for Shirley Collins, my favourite English folk singer (I don't have many as it happens). She sings (sang :-( ) in her own natural voice with her own accent, not an affectation in sight, and it's wonderful.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 01:52 PM

I assume that Billy Bragg laying the East End/Essex/Mockney accent on with a trowel is to do with 'street cred' during his punk days. His speaking voice is nowhere near as over the top. Interestingly he sings Woody Guthrie songs in a more or less 'normal' voice, much the same as his speaking voice.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 01:38 PM

A Canadian aspect: mainstream singers here sound like they come from Kentucky, a million miles from their own speaking voices. I believe they're completely unaware of what they're doing - I've never heard or read any public discussion of this, so it's probably "unthinkable". I call it cultural imperialism of the worst (because unconscious) kind. I once heard a musical group in Kuala Lumpur without a word of English between them who sounded as if they were all born in Liverpool.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 01:20 PM

If the thing that strikes you about a performance is the accent, tyher singer has failed.
Whatever works, works.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 10:27 AM

Wrong!
I include all those silly sounding English folkies in the "not the real deal" category as well!
BTw, there are some "English" sounding blues singers.
I heard one a while back on the Paul Jones Show.
He sang with a Geordie accent, and it was delightfully refreshing to hear him I must say.
BTW,btw
Do English blues guitarists play with an American accent?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 08:40 AM

Its the real deal for us - that's what we did with our lives.

I take it your idea of folk music is The Watersons with the accent from the dark side of the moon. (take my word for it - not too many people in Hull sing in that accent.)

Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 12 - 07:47 AM

Well, my position on "Brits singing American" is that it is not the truth!
It's a bit like these "tribute bands"; they might be fine musicians but they are copyist, and if they wanted to make a "true" musical statement then they would have to find their on voices.
I must admit, I want to laugh out loud when I hear Brits singing in these pseudo-American accents.
Of course, the Americans themselves have a history of young well-educated white kids ( John Hammond Jr, for example), trying their best to sound like some black chap from 1920s/30s Mississippi.
It's all very entertaining, but it will never be the real deal.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 22 Sep 12 - 11:02 PM

"Downeaster Alexa" sounds better in a Long Island accent.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 03:55 PM

Gasp! Pant! Wheeze! Squeeze! :)

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Geoff
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 01:09 PM

We would all do well to remember two things about Melodeonboy?

1. He plays the Melodeon, which is basically a mouth organ for people who are short of breath.

2. He is just a boy.

Play nice y'all!!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 07:51 AM

Gerry Lockran was one of the best blues singers and guitarists I've ever heard performing live. I first heard him at the Surbiton folk club, where he was a resident in the early '60s,(along with Derek Sargent, Jack Parkinson, Arthur Johnson and Mick Wells). Soon afterwards I poersuaded our university folk club to book him, and he had a tremendous impact there - especially with the ladies!

BTW, in those days he spelt his surname "Loughran" and pronounced it "Luffran"- I believe he changed it because continental Europeans found the original version difficult to deal with, and in later years he got most of his work over there.

And incidentally,Gerry told me that one of his parents was Irish and the other Indian - so what kind of accent do the folk purists think he should have been singing in?   

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: tritoneman
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 04:07 AM

I totally agree with the comments about Jerry Lockran. I used to see him at The Half Moon in Putney - amongst other places. His singing, guitar playing and whole delivery of what he did was awe inspiring. He was a great bloke too!

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 03:56 AM

The name is Whittle, Jeff.

Yeh - Gerry was amazing. Towards the end of his career -he played an amplified Ovation guitar. But for the most part he played an unamplified Martin D35. He played just two or three notes and the whole joint was rocking - swept up in an incredible technique. Then that voice....

Derek Brimstone called Gerry, the Errol Flynn of the folkscene. He always looked great. All the men were in awe of his guitar playing - all the women seemed to fancy him.

Roger Brooks's memory and website is tended over by 17 year old Sanjay Brain - who should win the young folk musician of the year - no probs as soon as he cares to go in for it. Sanjay is simply the best young talent I have ever seen.

http://www.freewebs.com/rogerbrooks/

I'm sure its okay for you to hang out on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 12:20 AM

Alan White,

Just did a googlesearch on Gerry Lockran. Wow. There were several audio/videos up on youtube to where I could get a good feel for his amazing talent(s). Thank you for the lesson. Killer version of Summertime recorded w/an old cassette player. Brilliant.

Roger Brooks was a different story. Wasn't able to find anything w/a g-search as it's a very common name. If you can throw a link on here I'd be grateful as the Gerry Lockren connection has proved enlightening. Thank you, Jeff

Btw, I've got a Mid-Western-USA accent as I was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. Can I still hang out here?

Subject: RE: Mid-Atlantic (accent) ~~ Why?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 08:27 PM

Sorry Melodeonboy. Its just the relentless attempts to devalue anything that doesn't into the parochial'in the tradition' aesthetic which annoys me. They see to me like a personal affront to the best writers and performers the folkscene has produced.

Many of these folk people are now retired or dead and have produced a lifetimes work without the subsidies and benefits that toeing the 'finger in your lughole' party line would have easily produced.

There was a civil war. you lot won. You all but emptied the folk clubs. I hope its made you happy.

Now bugger off without insulting any more the memories of people like Gerry Lockran and Roger Brooks - who were bloody brilliant, but spent most of their working life in exile.