Origins: Plaisir d'Amour

Subject: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 12:24 PM

Does anyone have the correct French words for this song? And any history? The Digital Tradition version is not accurate.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: emily rain
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:11 PM

hmm. joan recorded all the english and just the first of the french verses. the other french verses look like what is printed in jerry silverman's folk song encyclopedia, which my mom (who speaks high school french) took one look at and declared they were written by someone who doesn't speak french.

this is all i know.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 03:26 PM

If you anter Plaisir in the search box at the top left of this page, you'll find it.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 04:06 PM

Hey, dick would I not look at the Digitrad first????? (yeah, right). As I said in my first posting, the version in the Digitrad is inaccurate.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: Lyr Add: PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 07:47 PM

Here are some other, most likely better, lyrics. The music was by Giovanni Martini, an Italian Composer, who lived from 1741-1816. The lyrics were written by the most prolific poet of all, Anonymous. I believe the verse was originally Italian--


Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.
J'ai tout quitté pour l'ingrate Sylvie;
Elle me quitte et prend un autre amant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

"Tant que cette eaucoulera doucement
Vers ce ruisseau qui borde

La prairie je t'aimerai,"
Me répétait Sylvie.
L'eau coule encor,
Elle a changé pourtant.

Plaisir d'amour
E Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 11:21 PM

What's n the DT appears to have some mis-spellings. Otherwise seems to be the same version. Am I missing something?

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Andres Magre
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:32 AM

Dear Peter, My teacher of vocal technique, Guy De Kehrig, who is French and who has a revised copy of the original lyrics, will be glad to give me a copy, then I'll post it for you. This will be next Thursday night. By the way, there is an exquisite jazz version in MIDI format, in this site:
http://members.spree.com/raimund/midi/midi
at the "jazz" section. (I still don't manage the blue clicky thingies) You may also find other versions at the www.musicrobot.com

Best regards - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:44 AM

The version above corrects the mis-spellings of the DT, and while it has a couple of typos of its own, it's clear enough. I have heard it sung a bit more completely in that the whole first section (Plaisir..J'ai tout.. Plaisir...) is repeated after the middle section (Tant...). I never did like the Baez version because she only used the first part of the tune ad mauseam with her English words. Do you want a translation of the song?? BTW, Martini was called 'Martini il Tedesco', "the German", because he was born in Freistadt, real name Johann Paul Aegidius Schwartzendorf.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:07 AM

1) Thanks, Andre, I look forward to that version. I am assuming that it was an "art song" before it found its way to Joan Baez.
2) Thanks, Murray, I don't need a translation... (does ad mauseam mean sung to a mouse?) 3) Thanks, Dick -- as soon as it said "Qu'on" instead of "qu'un" , and "tant qur" instead of "tant que" I assumed that it was a phonetic copy from someone for whom (as emily said) French was not their language. So what did the original look like? I will be interested to see what Andres' teachers' version looks like.
un grand plaisir comme toujours,
, yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:37 AM

I realized that, when you said the verion in DT was not accurate,you meant that it wasn't the same as the recording you're listening to--my text came from some sheet music, not a transcription from a recording--it might help if we knew what you were listening to--

I also hesitate to mention this, but, if you are not very familiar with French pronounciation, the words written on the page often do not look like the words that you hear, even though they are--this is just a thought and not intended as an insult--

The French might say,"The words are as they should be, it is you who are not accurate" but there are other possibilities;-)

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Dan evergreen
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 12:25 PM

Does anybody have the chords and music to this? If I just use the Elvis version, is that the real tune? What about the chords?

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 12:35 PM

Lurking here ... I once found it in Italian and sang a bit for an art teacher who spoke both French and Italian. He said it just didn't sound right in Italian. So I'm glad to hear that the Italian was probably the original. If anyone wants it in Italian, send me a message or something. I think I even know which book it's in. - Rita Ferrara

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:06 PM

Ferrara, I would like any clarity! Ted-- I haven't been listening to any version recently -- I have the Joan Baez version, and once sang the French version in a play ("Trilby") so I have vague recall.
Rise Up Singing has a generic version of the chords (slightly corrected by me):
D -- A7 --- D -- G - D -- A7/Bm (or G) A D G DA7D.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:56 PM

It is also worth pointing out that the French words as listed don't match the tune -- notice verse 3.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 06:41 PM

If the Rise Up and Sing chords only needed slight correction, you were lucky--But seriously, it would seem like your best shot would be refer to your text from "Trilby"--Which you don't have any way of getting, at this point, I'll bet--

I have been looking around to see if I could find a book of verse that has it, but no luck--

Subject: Lyr Add: PIACER D'AMOR / PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Ferrara
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 01:07 AM

From memory:

Piacer d'amor piu' di un' di sol' non dura;
Martir d'amor dura tutta la vita. (repeat?)

The pleasure of love doesn't last more than a day
The pain of love lasts all [one's] life.

"Fin che tranquillo scorrera il ruscello
"La' verso il mar che cinge la pianura
"Io t'amero," mi disse l'infidele
Scorre il rio ancor, ma cambio' in lei l'amor

"As long as the little stream shall flow down, tranquil,
"There toward the sea which floods the beach,
"I will love you," the unfaithful one said to me --
The river is still flowing, but love changed in her!

(Repeat first part.)

If time permits, I'll look up the chords. At that point we'll also find out what I forgot or left out! - Rita F

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Murray on SS
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 01:44 AM

The French words match the complete tune, but as I said above the American translation only uses the first bit. At "J'ai tout quitte" it'll go D G D G D A7 D E7 A E7 E7 A E7 A A7

then the first strain again. Then the middle bit, in D minor.

Dm Dm A7 A7 Dm Dm A7 -- F C7 F Bf F -- C7 -- C7 -- F -- C7 -- F -- A7 A7 Dm -- A7 Dm Dm A7

then the first strain [at least] again.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 09:46 AM

Thanks, Murray, I forgot there was a middle section. Ferrara, is that an Italian translation from the French or the original? nothing simple around here....
yours, Peter T.

Subject: ADD: Plaisir d'amour (Italian)
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 10:26 AM

From my sources, the Italian text(sans repeats)

Piacer d'amor
Più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Tutto scordai per lei, per Silvia infida;
Ella or mi scorda e ad altro amor s'offida.

"Finchè tranquillo scorrerà il ruscel
Là verso il mar che cinge

La pianura io t'amerò,"
Mi disse l'infedele.
Scorre il rio ancor,
Ma cangiò in lei l'amor.

Rita has a good memory, but she left out the all-important part about "Silvia infida"!

It seems to me that there was an old movie where this song figured in the story in a major way--does anyone else remember it?

Ted

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 02:43 AM

You're right, I forgot that part! -- Can't understand why, I learned it in 1963, that's not so long ago.... Haven't sung it since around 1965.

I *think* it should read "e ad altro amor s'affida," not "s'offida." I believe it means pledged herself, linked her self, "affiliated" herself with another love. But at this late date, that's half memory and half a SWAG (Sophisticated Wild-Ass Guess). - Rita F

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Andres Magre
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 03:04 AM

Dear Peter, this is the lyrics from the copy my teacher gave me. Unfortunately there is no reference to the publisher, except a page foot which reads B.A. 8814. Anyway, this is the version he sings (he is a professional tenor at Colon Theatre) and tooks for accurate.

There are minimal differences with the version brought by Ted Boucher.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.
J'ai tout quitté pour l'ingrate Sylvie;
Elle me quitte et prend un autre amant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

Tant que cette eau coulera doucement
Vers ce ruisseau qui borde la prairie.

"Je t'aimerai"
Me répétait Sylvie.
L'eau coule encor,
Elle a changé pourtant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

The second word quitte is also accented, but I will not use my accents because they are not seen by you and others. The other accents were taken from Ted's message and seem to be perfect. (Do you see them at quitte, repetait, change in the text ?)

Best regards, escamillo (le torero de Granada)

Subject: Lyr Add: PIACER D'AMOR / PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Andres Magre
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 03:22 AM

This copy is bilingual, I forgot to post the italian text as well. This is also almost identical to Ted's:

Piacer d'amor più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Tutto scordai per lei, per Silvia infida;
Ella or mi scorda e ad altro amor s'affida.

Piacer d'amor più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Finchè tranquillo scorrerà il ruscel
Là verso il mar che cinge la pianura
"Io t'amerò", mi disse l'infedele.
Scorre il rio ancor, ma cangiò in lei l'amor.

Piacer.. <>

Saluti a tutti - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:36 AM

Merci, grazie, gracias, Andres et al -- but does anyone know which is the original?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:56 AM

Quote: 'my source* says it was originally the French song "Plaisir d'Amour", composed in 1785 by Jean Pierre Claris de Florian and Jean Paul Egide Schwarzendorf (alias Martini il Tedesco), who initially named it "La Romance du Chevrier". '
source: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/7980/looseends1.htm

Peter, I've no idea whether this is reliable, but it sounds good.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 10:46 PM

I first heard this, in French, when I was in college, from a native Italian named Francis Luzzatto (the one who said it just didn't sound right in Italian...)

It could be a case of faulty memory, but all these years I've thought he sang the second line as "Chagrin amoureux dure pour la vie." Maybe it was a case of his faulty memory, maybe a case of the folk process at work.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Nancy-Jean
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 12:51 PM

What a lovely song to get this much attention! I have a copy of Anthologie de la Chanson Francaise (La Tradition des Trouveres aux grand auteurs du XIX siecle). I think we might consider this a safe source! Confirmed: words by Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian and music by Schwarzendorf a.k.a. "Martini". Florian, by the way, was a protege of Voltaire's and quite admired in the salons. He was considered perhaps the next La Fontaine. Martini wrote a good deal of music, but would not be known today were it not for this piece. Furthermore (are you still with me as I translate?), "Plaisir d'Amour" had a sort of double career in that it was as popular in the salons --where the hoity toity people met--as in the more folk milieux. Composer Hector Berlioz did an arrangement for orchestra in 1859; concert singers included "plaisir d'amour" as part of their repetoires from there on. The lyrics from the Andres Magre message agree with my book.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 10:34 PM

No arguement from me, it all sounds good--but somebody, please! It's driving me crazy!! What was the old movie that featured this song in the story line?

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Sep 99 - 12:23 AM

Ted Boucher-

Tea and Sympathy.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 03:44 PM

Thanks,Dick--Now I can sleep again!

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 04:54 PM

"Plaisir d'amour" or "The Joys of Love" has been recorded by Richard Dyer-Bennet, complete with lute-like classic guitar accompaniment. He sings the entire song in his own translation from French. It's on his own label, Dyer-Bennet Records, No. 1. I have the old vinyl record, but it has been re-issued on CD. I've seen ads for it in recent issues of Sing Out!

Great song.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Sep 99 - 10:24 AM

Barbara Hendricks, the opera singer, has a nice record on EMI of French art songs, including this one.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: Tune Add: PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:49 PM

Plaisir D'Amour - the words in French and Italian can be found here and a facsimile of the score can be found here. Below is a Miditext/abc of that score, rather than Baez's abbreviated tune that is in the DT:

MIDI file: PLAISIRD.MID

Timebase: 480

Tempo: 055 (1090909 microsec/crotchet)
Key: Eb
TimeSig: 6/8 36 8
Name: Plaisir D'Amour (words Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian)
Text: C:Tune Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf, dit "Martini"
Start
0000 1 58 127 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 67 127 0959 0 67 000 0241 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 68 127 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 127 1199 0 65 000 0001 1 58 090 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 60 127 0719 0 60 000 0001 1 62 090 0719 0 62 000 0001 1 63 127 0239 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 60 090 0239 0 60 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 127 0719 0 67 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000 0481 1 63 090 0239 0 63 000 0001 1 70 127 0719 0 70 000 0001 1 72 090 0719 0 72 000 0001 1 70 127 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 72 090 0239 0 72 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 75 090 0239 0 75 000 0001 1 74 120 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0239 0 72 000 0001 1 70 127 0719 0 70 000 0001 1 68 090 0719 0 68 000 0001 1 67 127 0719 0 67 000 0721 1 69 127 0719 0 69 000 0001 1 70 090 0479 0 70 000 0001 1 71 090 0239 0 71 000 0001 1 72 127 0479 0 72 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 75 090 0239 0 75 000 0001 1 74 120 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 72 090 0239 0 72 000 0001 1 70 127 0719 0 70 000 0001 1 69 090 0719 0 69 000 0001 1 70 127 0719 0 70 000 0481 1 58 090 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 67 127 0959 0 67 000 0241 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 68 127 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 127 1199 0 65 000 0001 1 58 090 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 60 127 0719 0 60 000 0001 1 62 090 0719 0 62 000 0001 1 63 127 0239 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 60 090 0239 0 60 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 127 0719 0 67 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000 0240 1 66 127 0719 0 66 000 0001 1 66 090 0479 0 66 000 0001 1 66 090 0239 0 66 000 0001 1 65 127 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 65 090 0479 0 65 000 0001 1 65 090 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 66 127 0719 0 66 000 0001 1 68 090 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 70 090 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 65 127 0719 0 65 000 0721 1 66 127 0719 0 66 000 0001 1 68 090 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 70 127 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 70 090 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 71 090 0239 0 71 000 0001 1 73 120 0239 0 73 000 0001 1 75 090 0239 0 75 000 0001 1 70 127 0479 0 70 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0719 0 68 000 0001 1 68 127 0719 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 70 120 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 71 090 0239 0 71 000 0001 1 73 127 0959 0 73 000 0241 1 70 090 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 68 127 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 70 120 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 71 090 0239 0 71 000 0001 1 73 127 0479 0 73 000 0001 1 70 090 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 66 090 0719 0 66 000 0001 1 65 127 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 65 090 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 63 120 0239 0 63 000 0001 1 62 090 0239 0 62 000 0001 1 63 127 0959 0 63 000 0241 1 70 090 0239 0 70 000 0001 1 68 127 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 66 090 0239 0 66 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 66 090 0239 0 66 000 0001 1 66 127 0719 0 66 000 0001 1 65 090 0479 0 65 000 0001 1 58 090 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 67 127 0959 0 67 000 0241 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 68 127 0479 0 68 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 65 127 1199 0 65 000 0001 1 58 090 0239 0 58 000 0001 1 60 127 0719 0 60 000 0001 1 62 090 0719 0 62 000 0001 1 63 127 0239 0 63 000 0001 1 65 090 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 67 090 0239 0 67 000 0001 1 60 090 0239 0 60 000 0001 1 65 120 0239 0 65 000 0001 1 68 090 0239 0 68 000 0001 1 67 127 0719 0 67 000 0001 1 65 090 0719 0 65 000 0001 1 63 127 0719 0 63 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X: 214
T:Plaisir D'Amour (words Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian)
M:6/8
L:1/8
C:Tune Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf, dit "Martini"
P:ABACA
K:Eb
P:A
B,|
E3 F3|G3- GzG| A2A (GF)G|F3- F2B,|
C3 D3|EFG CFA|(G3 F3 |E3) z2 ||
P:B
E|
B3 c3|Bcd edc|(B3 A3 |G3) z3 |
=A3 B2=B|c2d (ed)c|B3 =A3|B3 z2 ||
P:C
K:Gb
z|
G3 G2G|F3 F2F|G3 A2B|F3 z3|
G3 A2A|BAB cde|(B2A) A3|
A3 (AB)c|d3- dzB|A2A (AB)c|(d2B) G3|
F3 (FE)=D|E3- EzB|A2A (GF)G|(G3 F2)||


WassaiL! V

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: ILKLEY D'AMOUR (Les Barker)
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:52 PM

Here's Les Barker's mixture of Plaisir D'Amour and Ilkley Moor Baht 'At. The tune is slighly altered from Martini's original, but seems more like recent classical recordings than the original

ILKLEY D'AMOUR

(Les Barker)

Ilkley d'amour, le 'ill where the Yorkshiremen go.
Ilkley d'amour et j'ai been there with mon chapeau.

Wheer hast tha' been since the day that I je t'ai vu.
J'ai been to court Mary Jane, chacun à son goût.

Ilkley d'amour, le 'ill where the Yorkshiremen go.
Ilkley d'amour et j'ai been there with mon chapeau.

Sacré bleu, vous will catch thy dee-ath tha knows
Vous allez snuff it si vous allez sans chapeau
Ooh 't worms'll ate thee, les ducks mange les worms for their tea
Et nous mange les ducks, so nous will have eaten thee

Ilkley d'amour, le 'ill where the Yorkshiremen go.
Ilkley d'amour et j'ai been there with mon chapeau.

MIDI file: ILKLEYDA.MID

Timebase: 480

Tempo: 055 (1090909 microsec/crotchet)
Key: Eb
TimeSig: 6/8 36 8
Name: Ilkley D'Amour (words Les Barker)
Text: C:Tune Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf, dit "Martini"
Start
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End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X: 215
T:Ilkley D'Amour (words Les Barker)
M:6/8
L:1/8
C:Tune Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf, dit "Martini"
P:ABACA
K:Eb
P:A
B,|
E3 F3|G3- GzG|A2A/A/ GFG|F3- F2B,|
C3 D3|EFG C P:B
E|
B3 c3|Bcd (ed)c|B3 A2A|G3 z3 |
=A3 B2=B|cde (ed)c|B3 (=AG)A|B3 z2 ||
P:C
K:Gb
z|
G3 G3|F3 F2F|G2G (=A_A)G|F3 z3|
GGG A A3 B2c|d3 d3|A3 ABc|ddB G3|
F2F (FE)F|G3-G2G|GEG (GE)G|(G3 F2)||


WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 08:13 PM

Snuffy, I don't know if I can sing this without cracking up!!
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 08:51 PM

Scores are:

(1) Sheet music of "Plaisir d'Amour - The Joys of Love" (in English & French; New York: Schirmer, G., 1874) at Music for the Nation: American Sheet Music, 1870-1885 site.

(2) "Plaisir d'amour" by Jean Martini, arr. Wolfgang Birtel (2000), with MIDI (no words; Scorch file required)

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:06 PM

OK, this brings up a question that has bothered me for a long time. How do you break this line into syllables?

Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie

I think it's:

Cha-grin d'a-mour du-re tou-te la vi-e

But a lot of people seem to do it "toot-la-vee" at the end, one syllable per word. What's right?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:35 PM

History of the song ("PLAISIR D'AMOUR, ou petite histoire d'une romance de plus de 200 ans") is HERE (with score). For translation, use a web translator such as AltaVista.
~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:42 PM

Thank you, Masato. I think I can consider myself vindicated. The sheet music breaks it up just like I do.
Cha-grin d'a-mour du-re tou-te la vi-e
(two notes on "vi")

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 11:40 PM

It may be a regional issue, Joe -- but I'll swear that the correct phrasing is "tootuh la vie-ie-ie". And I learned it from a bunch of jolly Bretons, who had no reason to put on airs! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:03 AM

OK, Amos, that's the same as mine. Seems like I'm the only one in the Sacramento Song Circle that sings it that way. I have a French recording, but it's just an instrumental. The only other recording I have is one by Nana Mouskouri, but I think I trust her pronunciation only in Greek....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: masato sakurai
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 04:10 AM

I think Joe is right. Listen to (1) Marie Denise Pelletier singing.

Other sound clips are:
(2) Nana Mouskouri (unclipped)
(3) Singer Unknown (Korean site, under "Favorite Song")

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Trevor
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 05:31 AM

I've always sung this 'cha-grin d'a mou-r dur to-ut la vie-ie-ie'.

Snuffy, I can't make your link work.

Cheers,

Trevor.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 08:25 AM

Trevor, I've just got into both the text and the tadpoles links from my machine at work, and they worked OK at home last night.

Or do you mean the link for miditext? That is generated automatically by the program, but I think the link is broken.

WassaiL! V

---

I fixed the MIDITEXT Links, just for the heck of it. I keep an up-to-date link for MIDITEXT in the FAQ.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: JenEllen
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:33 PM

Ah, Snuffy...Gales of laughter. Thanks Masato for the links/score.
~J

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: masato sakurai
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 08:46 PM

Recording of "Plaisir d'amour" sung by Armand Gauthier (1927; Columbia 34076) is HERE.

Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 09:59 PM

The "e" in "toute" is pronounced, but softened. "Tout" is masculine, not appropriate for modifying "la vie". Thus, "too-tuh la veee--eee--ee."

The other thing that is odd for me is the form of the verses given above. I always believed the song was in a regular form, with four lines to the verse followed by the chorus (Plaisir d'amour, etc...la view...")

A

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir D'amour. Nana Maskouri
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 22 Aug 03 - 01:59 PM

Plaisir d'amour, Lyrics Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian (1755-1794); Music Johann Paul Aegidius Martini (Martini il Tedesco), ca. 1775.

Not attributed in the DT. Not traditional, but certainly 'traditional' as far as its popularity is concerned. This is one French song that everybody has attempted.

Errors in French in the DT-
Chorus, sung at the beginning, end and between each verse- Plaisir d'amour ne dure qu'un moment (not qu'on)
1st verse, line 1, quitté line 2- Elle me quitte et prend un autre amant (quitte, not quit, unaccented; amant, not amour)
2nd verse, 2nd line- Vers ce ruisseau qui borde la prairie (Vers ce, not Vera a; borde, not bord).
3rd verse, 1st line, me répétait; 2nd line- L'eau coule encore, elle a change pourtant. (not Mais l'eau coute; changé).

The song was recorded by Joan Baez, but her words were not exactly as shown in the DT. She substituted 'instant' for 'moment' in the chorus (not an error in French, both are acceptable I think.
Nana Mouskouri sang the original as written by Claris de Florian.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST,Bojena
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 09:57 AM

Does anyone know whether there Celine Dion has sang that song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 01:46 PM

In thread 62304, use the link provided near the end by Masato and listen to Armand Gautier sing the song. Plaisir d'amour
I have saved it to disc, Gautier was a great vocalist.

In the same thread note that the lyricist's name is known- Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian, 1755-1794.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 01:52 PM

Sorry, should be Gauthier.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Stewie
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM

Emmylou Harris gives this a run on her new album 'Stumble into Grace'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST,Polarmom
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 08:14 AM

Ok I have seen MANY variations of this song and I need to get a midi file with the music as well as chart with the lyrics... Would be nice to be able to hear it sung as I have never done this song... My father used to sing this to my step-mom all the time and he passed away a few months ago.. His anniversary is in a couple weeks and I would like to get this song together for his wife... (it would mean a lot to her)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 09:35 AM

Polarmom:

If you read the thread you will find links to some recordings above. It is not a complicated song. The chorus has the same chords as the verse.

C~~~~G~~~C~~~~~F~~~~C~~~~~G ~~~
Plaisir d'amour ne dure qu'un moment
F~~~~~~G~~~~C~~~~~~F~~~~C~~G~~~~~C
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie, toute la vie

Adjust to suit.

A

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:17 PM

If you do it in C, the "bridge-y" bits are in C minor

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 07:39 PM

I have a copy of the sheet music - Bayley and Ferguson's Festival series (2 Great Marlborough Street London or 54 Queen Street Glasgow) This edition is edited and arranged "with Pianoforte accompaniment from the original figured bass" by Arthur W. Marchant, copyright 1922 by Bayley and Ferguson, price 2/6 net! Of course it does mention that the original composer was Martini (1741-1816) It is in the key of F going into F minor for the middle bit. The French words are exactly as Andre has typed them, and there's an English translation which is far from literal and a long way off Joan Baez's version!
As far as I can remember I picked it up from a bookstall on the South Bank of the Seine some years ago! I think I also got O Sole Mio at the same time.
By the way, do other people find odd things in their piano stools? I found a couple of Australian Christmas carols the other day, all about Santa jumping in a swimming pool: I've no idea how they got there! When I sang them someone said I should put them back and shut the lid firmly!
(?Subject for another thread?)
Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 02:07 PM

I believe this song was also in the movie "Love Affair" made in 1939 with Charles Boyer and Irene Dunne.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 02:16 AM

I am wondering, too, if this song wasn't the inspiration for Elvis Presley's I CAN'T HELP FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOU. There are certain curious similarities in the melodic line.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 02:23 AM

The song is also sung by Montgomery Clift in the classic film THE HEIRESS.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir D'amour. Nana Maskouri
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 08:33 PM

The original words by Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian, as set to music by Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf dit Martini, are those posted by Masato 22 Aug 03. The lyrics in the DT and Numachi contain errors that are not the fault of Joan Baez. Her version "eliminates the developmental sections of the original song, thereby transforming it from a 'through-composed' art song into a strophic folk-like song." "The Joan Baez Songbook," pp. 182-183; sheet music and the English version sung by her (she states that the English lyricist is not known to her).

Sheet music from La Bibliothèque nationale du Québec, with a history of the song: Plaisir d'amour may be seen here.

The lyrics used by Joan Baez leave out Silvie; Joan sings the first two lines in French and then sings the English portion shown in the DT and Numachi, which would better be titled "My Love Loves Me."

New address:
The great recording by Armand Gauthier (Col. 34076) may now be heard at http://www2.biblinat.gouv.qc.ca/musique_78trs/mi74.htm: Plaisir d'amour
In all, ten of the Gauthier recordings, 1927, from the Col. 34070-34084 sequence (Realplayer), are at this Bibliothèque nationale de Qué'bec (Canada) site.

Subject: Lyr Add: PLAISIR D'AMOUR (Richard Dyer-Bennett)
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 04:28 PM

Richard Dyer-Bennett sings it on the first recording on his own label, and he uses his own excellent English translation.

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

I gave up all for cruel Sylvia
She gave me up and has taken another love.

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

"Just as that stream ever flows toward the sea
"Beside the garden wall and over the meadow;
"So I will always be true." Thus often said Sylvia.
Still flows the stream, but she has changed her mind.

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

The melody of the chorus, "The joys of love…." etc., is what was recorded by Joan Baez and others, but there is more to the song than that. Other than the chorus, the words JB uses are not related to the original song, Each of the verses in the original has its own (related) melody. Not of folk origin, as has been noted, it is an art song.

Among folk music aficionados, Richard Dyer-Bennett is not to everyone's taste. Some find his "art song" approach to folk songs inappropriate. Be that as it may, when Dyer-Bennett does sing an art song, such as "Plaisir d'Amour," that's where he really shines! With songs such as this, his classical approach is indeed appropriate. And his accompaniment for "The Joys of Love" is a marvelous example of what can be done when using the classic guitar to accompany the voice. It beautifully supports and blends with the song.

For the original melody lines for the verses, the sheet music should be orderable, and Dyer-Bennett's recording is available from Smithsonian-Folkways (number one on his own label).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,lilu
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 03:15 PM

I think that all of you should listen to the nana mouskou ri version.
it is one of the most beautiful versions i have heard but no one mentions her in all this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 01:43 PM

A good version, mentioned only incidentally in previous posts.

Comments on comments- Joe Offer- "trust her pronunciation only in Greek." Nana M., born into a well-to-do family, went to a private French-speaking school in Switzerland for part of her education (design and fashion).

Pronunciation of 'toute'- most French say 'toot.' Complications here: tout as adv. pronounced 'too,' tout as adj. pronounced both 'too' and 'tout,' tout as pronoun or noun is pronounced 'too.'
Toute in a phrase pronounced 'toot' (e. g., de toute facon = dih toot fah-sohng), but in some regions 'too-tuh is used.
Toutes les fois que- 'toot'....
Complicated, no? The above from my old notes on French. I learned only enough to deal with technical French as a degree requirement.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 04:21 PM

In sung French, often a normally silent "e" at the end of a word is sung, although not particularly emphasized. Voici:   "TOUT-uh."

Just on the off chance that someone might be interested, Richard Dyer-Bennet recorded this on his own label, record #1, using his own excellent and reasonably literal translation from the French.

One of the things that seems to be confusing to a lot of folkies about this song is the Joan Baez recording of it. She sang the chorus of Martini's original art song, and then, to the same tune as the chorus, sang a new set of words as verses, interspersing it with the words of the chorus again—basic strophic folk song structure, which is not the way the original was written. In the original (and unlike most folk songs, with this ditty there is an original that can be referred to), it starts with the chorus. Then the first verse is to a different tune. Then the chorus again. Then a second verse in yet another tune (minor). And back to the chorus again. The Dyer-Bennet translation:

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

I gave up all for cruel Sylvia.
She gave me up and has taken another love.

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

"Just as that stream ever flows toward the sea
"Beside the garden wall and over the meadow;
"So I will always be true," thus often spoke Sylvia.
Still flows the stream, but she has changed her mind.

The joys of love are but a moment long;
The pain of love endures a whole life long.

On the recording, Dyer-Bennet's guitar accompaniment is a shining example of how classic guitar can not just accompany a song, but be fully integrated with it. For those who are turned off by Dyer-Bennet's "artsy" approach to singing folk songs and ballads (incidentally, he never called himself a folk singer—in fact, he often said that he was most definitely not a folk singer, so it's really unfair to criticize him on that basis), remember that Plaisir d'Amour is an art song. Dyer-Bennet is really in his element with this song. If you can get your hands on the record, or the CD reissued by Smithsonian-Folkways, give it a listen. In addition to his guitar work, listen to his phrasing and where he breathes—or where he doesn't breathe—as he sings the song. Amazing!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:58 AM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,seeking
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:06 AM

Can anyone provide me with either the sheet music for Plaisir D'Amour, or a site where I might find a free download? Many thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 08:47 AM

Try Here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour (from Nana Maskouri)
From: Genie
Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:57 PM

Bit of music trivia that I recently found.

Don, you posted this:

"Richard Dyer-Bennett sings it on the first recording on his own label, and he uses his own excellent English translation.

...

"Just as that stream ever flows toward the sea
"Beside the garden wall and over the meadow;
"So I will always be true." Thus often said Sylvia.
Still flows the stream, but she has changed her mind.

..."

Turns out the song "I Can't Help Falling In Love With You" is acknowledged to have been based partly on "Plaisir d'Amour." You can hear the melody echoed in the the hook line of the song as well as in the lyrics to the bridge:

"Like a river flows surely to the sea,
Darling, so it goes. Some things are meant to be."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,Moonshimmer
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:34 PM

Hey, I need the History of this song. I need to write a one page report on it. Any links would be fine.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Cruiser
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 08:54 PM

This is from the Related Thread (see link at the top of this page)

Mudcat member "Q" posted this link in the thread mentioned above:

History...If your French is Good

Beautiful...one of my favorite lyrical and melodic songs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 11:22 PM

Very brief information is given in thread 62304, the Related Thread link at the top of the page.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,Moonshimmer®
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 11:44 PM

Thank you. That has helped so much. I went on that site before, but I couldn't find the history of that song. I am not very good at french, as I am only in year 7. Lol. I feel so young.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

yeah, if you do have any information or good links for this song, send them to me at [e-mail]
i'm writing a paper over it as i type and can't find any good information.
oh, did i mention the paper's due tomorrow? so yeah. please send!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,Tony Patriarche
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 06:03 AM

I have posted a low-res scan of the original French lyrics & tune (with accompaniment and a charming line-drawing) from an old book of my grandmother's (no copyright) at:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd3s2hh3_0htm8pz
I will happily email or upload a higher resolution scan on request - I've been on the web long enough that I still worry about bandwidth [g].

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Joe_F
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM

The mute e at the end of French words is normally silent in speech, but it used to be pronounced, and so in old songs it often has to be restored for the sake of the syllable. For that reason, it is also often pronounced (facultatively, as the grammarians say) in recent songs where an extra syllable is wanted. So it's "Cha-grin d'a-mour du-re tou-te la vi-e". For an example of the facultative use, listen to Marlene Dietrich sing "La Vie en Rose": "Et ca m' fait quel-que cho-se".   The schoolbooks say to pronounce the e in "me" but not at the ends in "quelque chose", but with poetic license it is the other way around.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 01:55 PM

Plaisir

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:02 PM

As regards Elvis, I think the similarities approach a straight lift of the tune.


A

Subject: Tune Add: PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 01:57 PM

ABC as transcribed from that 1926 music sheet:

  X:1
  T:Plaisir D'Amour
  A:Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian
  C:Jean-Paul Schwarzendorf, dit "Martini"
  M:6/8
  L:1/8
  P:ABACA
  K:G
  P:A
  D|G3  A3   |B3-     B2B | c2c   (BA)B   |A3-   Az
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  P:B
  G|d3  e3   |def ({a}g)fe|(d3     c3)    |B2z   z3  |
   ^c3  d2^d |e2f    (gfe)| d3    ^c3     |d3-   dz ||
  P:C
  K:Gmin
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  A|B2B c2c  |(dc)d  (ef)g|d3 ({ed}c2)z   |
    c3 (cd)e |f6          |c2c     cde    |(f2d) B2z |
    A3 (AG)^F|G3-     Gzd |c2c    (BGB)   |(B3   A2)||

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 18 - 11:28 AM

The old movie that Plaisir d'Amour was sung in is one with Irene Dunne and Charles Boyer "Love Affair" (1939). Dunne sings it beautifully, though not the entire song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 27 Oct 18 - 12:00 PM

A couple of things.

Olivia de Havilland won a Best Actress Oscar, I believe, for her
lead role performance in the Hollywood film
The Heiress,
based on Henry James's Washington Square.

The false-hearted lover was played by Montgomery Clift,
and he sits at the piano and sings this very song.
First he sings it in French -- I'll come back to that in a moment.
Then he talks his way through an English translation
while still playing the piano.


Now, the original-language chorus in 'Plaisir d'Amour.'
Whoever did the film's musical direction,
and coached Montgomery Clift on how to sing the French,
made this interesting adjustment to that final line in the chorus,
about which Joe Offer voiced his doubts several posts back.

Yes, the conventional way the words fit the melody is:

"Cha-grin d'a-mour du - re tou- te la vie - ie - e."

In The Heiress:

"Cha - grin d'a - mour du - re tout' la vi', tout' la vi'."
With a single syllable for each note of the melody.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 21 - 07:36 AM

Tom (John Kerr) sings one verse in Tea & Sympathy movie, & speaks the words to Deborah Kerr