The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC

Subject: The end of Folkwaves
From: Joules
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:55 PM

I have learnt tonight that Auntie Beeb has decided that minority music can no longer play a part on the East Midlands radio scene, and that includes Folkwaves. The final show will be broadcast on 27th Dec.
Am I wrong in assuming that as we actually pay for these programmes we also have a right to be heard, and can anyone give me some imput as to how we can actually fight this ? or are we forever destined to listen how X factor contestants are getting on etc etc etc

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Anglo
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 09:51 PM

If that's true it's disgusting. Folkwaves is one of the finest folk shows in the UK, with hosts who could not be more knowledgeable about the music.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 10:23 PM

I couldn't find anything about it coming to an end in a search of BBC. I am listening to Monday's archived programme, now. Great stuff!

I hope this is just an unfound rumour.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 11:44 PM

What great fun. My Rog and I have both enjoyed this past Monday's show. Haven't heard any mention of them going off-air. We will be tuning in for sure over the next while, so I hope it stays.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Joules
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:34 AM

Unfortunately it is not just a rumour as I was told last night by both Mick Peat and Lester Simpson at a CBS gig which Mick was promoting. Barry Coupe also announced it on stage. Mick and Lester are gutted.
This morning I am working out my strategy and will later be composing some correspondence to certain BBC departments. Xmas cards to Folkwaves would also be good

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:55 AM

Hell fire, that is really terrible news! I echo Anglo's view that Folkwaves is 'Folkwaves is one of the finest folk shows in the UK...', how could the BBC be so short-sighted. I can only hope that a concerted effort by the show's many fans can save it, but at such short notice, I fear the worst.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM

Mick and Lester do a great job and serve a very wide community. It's a disgrace. Are you going to start a Facebook petition to save Folkwaves Julie?
We musn't forget that through the internet, people can and do listen worldwide by streaming the program. Is that recorded and taken account of?

It's very important that people write to the following person complaining about it. It's no good phoning.

Simon Cornes
56 S't Helens Street
Derby DE1 3HL

We mustn't forget, that it probably includes the closing of programs such as James McKeefry's excellent Celtic Fringe on a Wednesday from 7 to 9pm which is through Radio Leicester and serves the same regions as Folkwaves, as well as many more such programs.

These people are so valuable to keeping certain genres of music alive and kicking.

Keep us updated Joules

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:04 AM

May I also add these programs affect everybody involved in Folk music, by playing your songs on it, irrespective of where you come from. So mudcatters, your help is greatly needed to keep such programs on the airwaves.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM

That's terrible. Folkwaves is the best folkie radio programme. I never miss it. Shame on the BBC!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:22 AM

A quote from Radio Derbyshire's website back in 2009.

Editor Simon Cornes spoke of 'a special bond' with listeners after seeing BBC Radio Derby named 'station of the year' at the BBC's annual Frank Gillard awards.

The internal event recognises the best in BBC local radio across the country.

And BBC Radio Derby picked up the main prize at the awards ceremony held in Nottingham.

It ensured the title stayed in the East Midlands after BBC Radio Nottingham took the honour last year.

The judges called BBC Radio Derby an "out and about station that feels well connected to its audience and its area with likeable presenters and good touches of humour".

End of quote

Not anymore!

I suppose his e-mail address would be

[e-mail]

Maybe time to swamp his e-mail box.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:26 AM

I've fired off an email to Radio Derby, but I'll also write to the address above in Arthur's post.

I'd say that most of my music buying decisions over the last few years have resulted from hearing artists on Folkwaves.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:29 AM

It is very bad news indeed and there was certainly no indication of this when I listened on Monday night.
I agree that we should all take some sort of action but I also fear that it will be a wasted effort as was seen some twenty years ago, ironically the situation from which Folkwaves evolved, when BBC in the East Midlands chose to network specialist music shows. This meant that individual programmes such as Nottingham's "Copper Plate Music Show" with Roy Harris, "Derby Tup" - Mick Peat and Radio Leiceser's Folk programme with George Thomas were all axed and presented under one umbrella title which, initially at least, lost us any regional feel about the content and presentation.
I can remember numerous protests at the time, all of which fell on deaf ears and a similar situation a few years later when Radio Derby dropped John Shaw's Sunday evening show which more than adequately addressed folk, blues and roots music.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Folknacious
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:38 AM

There's a similar campaign going on to save Ritu's 'A World In London' on BBC London, which is also being axed at the end of December. Now you may think that the fate of a programme playing folk in Derby has no connection to that of a programme playing multi-cultural music in London, but leaving aside the fact that Ritu plays some Britfolk too, the BBC local stations REMIT applies to both.

Things like:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output.

Have a look at the Save A World In London FACEBOOK PAGE and BLOG and you may find some other shared ammunition.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:40 AM

I too am gutted at the news.

I remember a similar outcry when Henry Ayrton's folk and roots show (which served the north) was summarily axed by the bbc as a further sacrifice to the Great God Sport (all hail! - the planners misguidedly assume we are all sport nuts or else love to hear presenters babble mindlessly on peripheral and trivial so-called-political issues for hours on end). I am sick to death of sport dominating the airwaves (there are sports channels after all), and sick of being dictated to by these brainless idiots to whom the concepts of informed broadcasting, quality and integrity are anathema.
Rant over for the moment. Nurse...!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM

MoorleyMan
How do you know it's sport that will replace it?
I love sport and would be very angry if that's what they replace it with. There are dedicated programmes for sport.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:03 AM

I have sent an e-mail to Mr Cornes (oops should I be using the C as the first letter of his surname). I will follow up with a letter.
Hopefully Jules might get some sort of petition going.

I think Folknacious makes a valid point in the sense that it is a country issue and maybe there should be one massive country petition, rather than the smaller ones.

Maybe we should all stop paying our licence.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:11 AM

Yes Arthur_itus, there are dedicated programmes (and whole radio and TV channels) for sport, and that is as it should be. Fine. Just because I'm a ludophobe doesn't mean that I believe that sport should be banned from the airwaves! There's a place for specialist music in programming, alongside specialist sport, and I can't see why one measly hour or two of an award-winning folk programme with a specific local remit and professionally presented (but not costly to produce) should be the victim yet again of the whims of the current crop of managers under the guise of whatever cuts might need to be implemented at the bbc. But that is always the kind of lame excuse that is given when a music show is axed - that "local radio listeners prefer sport" (and/or mindless chat) (who says so ??? where's the evidence??) and therefore there should be even more sports coverage (and/or chat) than there already is on the station (which is plenty). I am only reiterating the reply that was given when Henry's show was axed.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:24 AM

This will be a disaster if it happens. Folkwaves is, without doubt, the best folk programme on BBC radio, both on the national and local programmes (followed by Genevieve Tudor and Johnny Coppin and then by nobody else at all). Radio Wales still has Frank Henessy and Ulster/Scotland have Colum Sands and Barbara Dickson and sometimes Julie Fowlis but once again traditional music in England is being sold out by our own national broadcasters.   I thought the BBC's remit was to educate as well as entertain (covered in more detail in the comment above). I can understand that not everyone is entertained by folk music (after all I'm not in the least bit entertained by Radio1's music) but programmes like this should be retained for their significance if not their mass entertainment value.

It was this same BBC logic that caused Jim Causley to leave Radio Devon's Devon Folk. He was told that he needed to play less traditional (and local) music and play more "easy listening". Now we have ex-game show host Richard Digance presenting a programme. I complained to the BBC at the time but, naturally, without effect (story of my life) and I fear complaints to Radio Derby may be similarly ignored.

Still I'll send my comments to Mr Cornes.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:26 AM

Apart from the great music, and the chance for me to hear stuff that I had certainly never heard before and could not hear anywhere else, what about all of the advertising for local clubs that will be lost? Losing this programme will not only be a personal loss, it will also affect the whole of the folk scene in the Midlands, doing damage. Terrible decision.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:33 AM

The diaries are a key factor with Folkwaves and help all folk clubs and performers in getting the gig info etc out to us locals.

Without Folkwaves and if Radio Lincolnshire stop the 25 minute folk programme on Wednesday evenings, then Lincolnshire will lose our only broadcasting means of informing the local folk community of what is going on.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,moira(flyingcat)
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:56 AM

letter and email gone off. So when are they going to axe that other minority interest music "opera" !

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: I don't know
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:15 AM

Try to listen to folkwaves every week even though it is not my area. The best folk program by far, letter being sent, but unfortunately I think we will all be to late to save it.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM

Mmmm. Sort of guessed this might be happening when the BBC closed their F&A forum, a month or so ago. (closely followed by Radio 3 closing their World Music version.)
Has Genevieve Tudor survived the axe?
Sadly, although I've sent an E Mail, I hold out little hope, unless we can get the level of support that the Save 6 Music campaign managed, and I fear that to be unlikely (and 6 music survived only by the skin of it's teeth anyway).
I tend to agree with moira, why not axe Radio 3, if you want to get rid of minority music with very few listeners.
And to think that I almost considered a job at Radio Derby many years ago....Glad I didn't now...

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

This is really bad news. Folkwaves is a really well produced show and in fact it's broadcasting area should be widened to Sheffield and beyond not being cancelled.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:50 AM

I have spoken to BBC Radio Derby. They confirm the show is due to be axed. The woman I spoke to said she thought it was the end of January.

They are currently preparing a press release - ring up and ask for a copy to be emailed to you.

Also you might consider complaining to Feedback - produced by Whistledown Productions. This cannot be anything to do with saving money - the show must cost very little.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:15 AM

@ Ralphie: I don't think the closure of the message boards is necessarily related. All of the Radio 2 and 3 boards (not just the World Music one) were closed ... I doubt very much that the whole of Radio 3 is for the chop. Interestingly the only music board left seems to be for 6 Music.

Is there any high profile politician that supports folk music who could be asked to assist in lobbying the Beeb? This programme isn't just a local thing, thanks to the net (in fact I think there are some international listeners like Conrad), and it's closure has much wider implications. I've sent in a complaint of my own ... but sadly, based on the happenings of the mid 1990's I suspect it's going to have little impact. (However, doing nothing at all, of course, has even less). :-(

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM

Gutted.
Have e-mailed Radio Derby. But I don't anticipate a reprieve.
Dave B.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:17 AM

I phoned Radio Derby, the receptionist just referred me to the email system, so filled in the on-line form, and then got automated response telling me it was unlikely they would respond to individual emails. a strongly worded letter will be despatched!

I notice, incidentally, that some months ago, you could click on local and regional radio from the main BBC home page, and then click Radio Derby. Now, when you try and access local radio from the homepage, they just ask for your postcode/town so that they can connect you with your local radio station. Well, I don't want the local radio station, I want Radio Derby. Have the BBC website people not heard of t'internet? or the iPlayer?
Derek

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:04 AM

We could try a mass inundation of Christmas cards to the show:-

Address is:-


Mick Peat, Leicester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL.

It's one way of showing how many people like the show.

Unfortunately it's part of a trend to replace any presenters who have any personality with young people who just witter!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:12 AM

I suspect they were getting fed up of people calling them!!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM

They are not being replaced. The show is being axed. I agree about the Christmas cards.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM

I've only just been alerted to this. Funnily enough I was listening to Monday's programme this morning whilst writing my Christmas cards so I included one to them as they were asking for cards so they knew how many people actually listen to them.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,olgaj
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:16 AM

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,OlgaJ
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Sorry - that was me. I seem to have lost my cookie.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:37 AM

Here is the BBC statement regarding your enquiry about BBC Radio Derby's Folkwaves programme:

"A BBC Spokesperson said:

Radio stations regularly review their programming, and after a wide ranging review of evening programmes in the East Midlands, we are extending the hours of broadcast to 1am and providing a new early-evening programme designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers."

ENDS

"I have also checked and the changes take place from the start of the New Year and the last programme goes out on BBC Radio Derby on 27th December. This announcement relates to the East Midlands only."

I asked if a BBC Spokesman was prepared to come onto my radio show and defend the decision. Here is what they said.

"I'm afraid it wont be possible to put up a BBC Radio Derby spokesperson on your show unfortunately."

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM

"designed to appeal to a wider number of licence fee payers."

Yet more lowest common denominator stuff then.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: open mike
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM

link to the show's page here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_derby
(including links and contact info)

link to the latest archived stream here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00cfk1v/Folkwaves_06_12_2010/

listen while you can and hope for the show to be saved!!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:01 PM

Acorn4. Great idea, but please can we get the names correct before sending off, otherwise they will just laugh at you.

"Mick Peat, Leicester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL"

It should be

Mick Peat & Lester Simpson, Folkwaves, BBC Radio Derby, St Helens Street, Derby DE1 3HL

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: open mike
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:07 PM

listening and enjoying now!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:31 PM

Sorry about the Leicester/Lester mistake - yet more onrush of senility - It's because it's where I live.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:11 PM

Very sad news indeed

I suspect that some overpaid accountant type prat has been blue sky thinking, evaluating the situation by rationalization and presenting an onward business plan. As well as talking more management bollix than you can shake a stick at, to justify their position, this person has decided to take this course of action because, in their eyes, folk is an easy target.

Well we're not

Lets do our best to keep this wonderful programme going

My email and letter have been sent


Stuart Pendrill

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:17 PM

I guessed it was that Acorn4 :-)

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM

Bounce

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:34 PM

I've sent Radio Derby an email but as others have said I don't hold out much hope. In my experience the people who do these things have no connection with reality, still less any interest in music.   

I did point out that a couple of weeks ago Bellowhead sold out the Darwin Suite in Derby so there might be a market for folk music locally but then they've probably never heard of Bellowhead.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 05:37 PM

Please join the Facebook page called Save "Folkwaves"

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:15 PM

I have just seen this thread. This is dire news. I suspect that MoorleyMan may have hit on part of the plan by mentioning sport. As someone in Shropshire I listen to Folkwaves via t'internet & indeed record the programme using a nifty piece of software on my iMac but I have to remain aware when Notts, Derby or Leics are broadcasting footie so that I'm recording Folkwaves from the appropriate transmitter & not dread sport.

I've not heard any whispers about Radio Shropshire removing Genevieve Tudor's Sunday Folk. I will stick my neck out and say I doubt it would happen as Genevieve is a BBC Shropshire employee and works on other programmes too. I suspect this is the problem for Radio Derby in that the presenters are 'guests' not full time staff and, as such, easier for the accountants to remove when dealing with bottom line sums, regardless of the programmes significance in BBC English airwaves Folk broadcasting.

How blooming ironic this news comes out on the week BBC Four TV will be screening 2 Folk Dance programmes praising the importance of Regional Folk and archive film on UK Folk in the 50's, 60's & 70's:

BBC Preview videos
The Most Unusual Dance in England? - Still Folk Dancing...After All These Years

The Ancient English Horn Dance! - Still Folk Dancing...After All These Years

Folkwaves is another upset on this day of awful news for those of us who believe in a free at the point of contact UK Education for all especially Music and the Arts. This could become nigh unobtainable at University level even if the Universities can afford to run the courses. What are the chances of the Newcastle Uni Folk Degree remaining viable anyone?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 07:21 PM

Email and Christmas card going out from Colorado. Do they really want the Colonies laughing at their stupidity? Thanks for all of the contact info, etc.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DebC
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:41 PM

And one going out from Massachusetts. Mick and Les kindly interviewed me on their show back in '05 when I was doing a gig at the Derby Gaol. We had a lovely chat and I have since listened to the show when I can.

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: KathWestra
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 11:30 PM

I listen to Folkwaves every week from Maryland (in the aforementioned colonies). Mick and Lester present by far the finest selection of traditional music and tradition-influenced contemporary folk I've ever been privileged to hear on the radio. United States public radio stations have long since deep-sixed any diverse programming like this in favor of news and talk programs, and I've come to rely on Mick and Lester's "Folkwaves" to hear artists I never would have known about otherwise. Hearing them on this program has led me to order CDs of new-to-me performers from the Living Tradition's "Listening Post" catalog, and given me a broader perspective on who's singing/playing what, not just in the U.K., but here in North America (Mick and Lester frequently feature U.S. and Canadian singers and instrumentalists). Archie Fisher did that, too, until BBC Scotland decided to "retire" his long-running Traveling Folk. Decisions like this affect the survival of traditional music (who can understand--or even know about--what they never hear?) and the livelihoods of those that perform it. Shame on the BBC! Letter on its way across the pond. Thank you, Lester and Mick, for all these years of wonderful music.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:32 AM

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Folkwaves-on-BBC-Radio-Derby/173039876049804?v=wall