Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay

DigiTrad:
THE HOLLY AND THE IVY
THE HOLLY BEARS A BERRY (SANS DAY CAROL)


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: The Holly and the Ivy (36)
The Holly & the Ivy (Wren's Heart) (15)
Lyr Req: Sans Day Carol / The Holly Bears a Berry (31)
(origins) Origin: The 'Holly and Ivy' Girl (John Keegan) (8)
(origins) Origins: Holly and the Ivy (48)
Lyr Req: Sans Day Carol (in Cornish) (9)


A Wandering Minstrel 09 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Dec 10 - 08:59 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 09 Dec 10 - 09:08 AM
Georgiansilver 09 Dec 10 - 09:19 AM
Anglo 09 Dec 10 - 10:28 PM
MrRunrigFan(extinct) 10 Dec 10 - 05:59 PM
The Sandman 10 Dec 10 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM
Jim Dixon 13 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Dec 10 - 06:08 PM
A Wandering Minstrel 14 Dec 10 - 08:11 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Dec 10 - 11:50 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 15 Dec 10 - 08:46 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Nov 13 - 12:48 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 13 - 05:01 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Nov 13 - 12:58 PM
Mr Happy 08 Nov 16 - 10:58 AM
Mo the caller 09 Nov 16 - 09:30 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM

Having looked through Slags website mentioned elsewhere I was reminded of another version of the Holly and the Ivy I heard a while ago but I can only remember a verse that went:

The Holly and the Ivy
they could not agree
of all the trees in forest green
Which had the mastery.

Does anyone know this version and what the rest of the lyrics might be? I think it was sung either by Martin Carthy or John Kirkpatrick but I wouldn't swear to it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:59 AM

John Kirkpatrick - heard in his Wassail show during the 90s and still heard on the CD of the same, featuring the former George Faux.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HOLLY AND THE IVY
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:08 AM

JK's work presumably?

I did something different to it myself once - exploring deeper significances of the imagery & set it to Searching for Lambs by way of dignity:

The holly and the ivy
Now they both full grown
Of all the trees that are in the wood,
The holly bears the crown.

The rising of the winter sun,
The running of the deer
The holy seed of the mistletoe
In the dawning of the year

In winter time I danced alone
And felt the growing cold
And lighting fires from fallen trees
I warmed my dying soul

I saw the sun reborn again
Melt through the winter snow
And drank afresh from holy streams
Swollen by the thaw

The holly bears a sharp prickle
As sharp as any thorn
The wren's heart pierced in the darkest night
Is healed before the dawn


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Un87fiduI


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:19 AM

There is a previous thread on which this version is mentioned.    Previous thread


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:28 PM

As I recall the Kippers did a nice one. Not the one under discussion as you may imagine.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: MrRunrigFan(extinct)
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 05:59 PM

John Kirkpatrick - Carolling & Crumpets


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:18 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: Anglo - PM
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:28 PM

"As I recall the Kippers did a nice one. Not the one under discussion as you may imagine."
sounds a bit like a red herring


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 10 - 11:03 AM

Hello, Wandering Minstrel. Are you still with us?

I believe you will find the song you seek by searching for 'Nay, Ivy, Nay.'

It seems to me that the tune (if any) has been lost, but I leave that to you to research.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: NAY, IVY, NAY!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM

From A Garland of Christmas Carols, Ancient and Modern edited by Joshua Sylvester (London: John Camden Hotten, 1861), page 144:


NAY, IVY, NAY!

This quaint Carol is of the time of Henry VI. Stow says, "Every man's house of olde time was decked with Holly and Ivie in the winter, especially at Christmas." It appears that formerly it was the custom at this season to set up in each village a long pole, decked with Holly and Ivy, after the fashion of the May-pole in summer time.

From the Stationer's books we learn that W. Copland paid 4d. for a licence from the company, to print "A ballette entitled holy and hyve."

[CHORUS] Nay, Ivy, nay, it shall not be, I wis,
Let Holly have the mastery as the manner is.

[1] Holly standeth in the hall fair to behold,
Ivy stands without the door; she is full sore a cold.

[2] Holly and his merry men, they dance now and they sing;
Ivy and her maidens, they weep, and their hands wring.

[3] Ivy hath a lybe,* she caught it with the cold,
So may they all have, that do with Ivy hold.

[4] Holly he hath berries, as red as any rose,
The foresters, the hunters, keep them from the does.

[5] Ivy she hath berries as black as any sloe,
There come the owls and eat them as they go.

[6] Holly he hath birds a full fair flock,
The nightingale, the poppinjay, the gentle laverock.

[7] Good Ivy, say to us, what birds hast thou,
None but the owlet that cries How! How!


* This word is not explained by any glossary.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:08 PM

Other versions have kibed or kybe as the mystery word. My dictionary says that a kibe is a crack or chilblain on the skin caused by cold.

There are other versions of the song in various places around the Net.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:11 AM

Hi Leenia, Yes I'm still around.

I checked out the track on Wassail but that s just the "holly bears a berry" version with a tune variant and so is the one on Carolling and Crumpets.

Much brain racking has recalled the following additions


The holly in the forest
he stands a mighty tree
The ivy hath a mystery
??????

and

The holly in the forest stands
In majesty and might
yet the ivy wrapped him round about
and smothered him from sight

The tune is not one of the two "holly bears a berry" variants but is in a minor key. Still hoping for more info


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:50 AM

I see what you mean, Wandering Minstrel. Those words about the ivy smothering the holly are unusual indeed.

When I visited Ireland for the first time, I was dismayed to see that ivy was growing rampant over magnificent trees everywhere.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 08:46 AM

one also suspects given the male and female aspects of holly and ivy that that verse has an ulterior meaning ;)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Nov 13 - 12:48 PM

as posted by Jim Dixon (13 Dec 10), above:

Lybe has been defined as chillblains or chapped skin. See Notes appended to "The Contest of the Ivy and the Holly" in www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com.

The song there is from William Henry Husk, "Songs of the Nativity," 1868.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 05:01 AM

There's a stunning version of the traditional carol recorded from Peter Jones of Bromsash, nr. Ross-on-Wye, Herefordshire by the BBC in 1952.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 12:58 PM

An old version "time of Henry the 6th" is in Joseph Ritson, "Ancient Songs: from the time of King Henry the Third, to the Revolution."
Pp. 75-76.
It seems to be the same as posted by Jim Dixon.

http://books,google.ca


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 10:58 AM

The Ivy n' The Holly


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A different Holly and Ivy? / Nay Ivy Nay
From: Mo the caller
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:30 AM

Thank you, John


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 14 December 10:25 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.