Melodeon Domination?

Subject: Melodeon Domination?
From: Alan Day
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 02:51 PM

Do you think that the Melodeon has taken over the fiddle as the dominant Folk Dance Instrument ?
This discussion came about from the recent BBC4 "Still Dancing after all these years " where most of the Morris and Rapper sides were led by melodeon's whereas most of the archive clips showed fiddles as the dominant instrument.
Al

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:39 AM

A few of us are trying to reinstall pipe and tabor into the Cotswold Morris psyche as that was THE instrument pre 1850, before the fiddle came in. I like the idea of dancing to a pipe and tabor as there is a nice starkness about the sound. However the truth is that melodeons are (relatively) easy to learn and play and they are actually ideal for morris as they give a body of sound and a volume that a fiddle or a pipe and tabor doesn't, especially in competition with traffic etc noise. I played melodeon for years for morris, and still do, but took up the pipe and tabor and the number of melodeons in our side (Gloucestershire Morris Men) proliferated.

Another factor IMHO for the popularity of the instrument is that virtuoso musicians such as Tim Van Eyken, Andy Cutting and John Spiers (and others) have really pushed out the envelope on technique and have become role models for others to follow.

I have no objection at all to melodeons in English folk dance music but still like to see the balance redressed whenever possible.

Anyway, we mustn't be melodeonist on this. Melodeon players are sensitive human beings too, Well, a few of them are.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: IanC
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:49 AM

I think this happened a long time ago and there is now a lot more variation in the instruments used. You shouldn't forget that the fiddle had, itself, taken over from other instruments, most notably the pipe & Tabor.

One of the reasons for the growth in use - even the predominance - of the melodeon during the "revivalist" 50s and 60s and on is the popularity of the instrument amongst working people. I did an extrapolation based on a survey of a small Cambridgeshire village not known for its music and concluded that (if it was at all typical) there were probably 1.75 million to 2 million melodeon players, mostly playing for themselves or for very localised entertainment, during the 1930s/40s. This surprising figure is to some extent borne out by the huge number of melodeons from peoples' attics which continue to pour onto EBay.

I think there was a large pool of talent and quite a few instruments out there at that time, and the instruments were easy to learn and cheap.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM

Today - Witney


Tomorrow - the world.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: LesB
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 03:59 AM

We have mostly had a melodeon player as team musician (Sword Dancing) not by design but by availability of musicians. Musicians being prepared to commit to joining a dance side are hard to find around here. Also with a melodeon or concertina the sound projects well in an open space. With that in mind I suppose we should all dance to the Highland Pipes.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: banjoman
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM

I recall being told by our local NW Clog side that they only wanted Traditional Instruments and that my banjo was not a Traditional Instrument. I pointed out that people were playing banjos and similar instruments long before Mr Wheatstone invented the concertina from which the melodeon was derived, mainly for Salvation Army bands. The melodeon is the last refuge of the musically incompetent and should only be played by consenting adults, in private.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:01 AM

I know I've posted this before but it seems apt at this point especially after banjoman's comment:-



The Melodeons are Coming!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:06 AM

no.
because there are many dance or ceilidh bands that have fiddles and piano accordians, yu cant make an overall judgement based on just morris and rapper

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:22 AM

Oy! Banjoman, outside. Now! :p
As I'm a girl and wear glasses you can't hit me back. ;)
(I says as a player of concertina, melodeon and recently taken up fiddle)

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:26 AM

Nice song who wrote it so I can give it credit!?

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:33 AM

I was at a concert by Andy Cutting the other week and he calls his a button accordion, it's gone well beyond a 'melodeon' as the Irish decided. When I was younger 'cat melodeon' was a derogatory term in Irish music circles ( although like everything the style has come round again as button accordion players got so slick as to be more divorced from the tradition)


what gets me is how expensive some boxes are and how they are used for push/pull playing in the street, must wreck the bellows and reeds.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:44 AM

I've occasionally thought about starting a similar thread - but my perception is that the [English] scene is currently flooded with fiddlers and that the melodeon / accordion is comparatively in decline!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 08:46 AM

That's just that Jon Boden and Sam Sweeney are in everything! Mind you they are great.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: acegardener
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 10:22 AM

Piano accordians killed off the fiddle player years ago. Now melodeons are doing the same for PA'S. I wish I could play my concertina in the street, but it is a very expensive instrument to put up with the rigours of outdoor playing so the melodeon has to make do. It's just progression, Strebs or similar will be the future when they are readily availiable, then you will be dancing to complete orchestrial sounds.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: treewind
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM

"Piano accordians killed off the fiddle player years ago."
They didn't. Not permanently anyway.

"Now melodeons are doing the same for PA'S."
You say that like it's a bad thing

"Strebs or similar will be the future when they are readily availiable"
I hope not.

Sfmans: "my perception is that the [English] scene is currently flooded with fiddlers and that the melodeon / accordion is comparatively in decline!"
There a lots of fiddlers in increasing numbers, which is great, but I'm not sure about the decline in melodeons/accordions. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I've noticed a resurgence of piano accordions in a new generation of folk performers.

I have also noticed, over the last two decades or so, many players of other instruments taking up the fiddle as a second instrument.
The fiddle is my favourite instrument to have in large numbers in a session. Five fiddlers in a small session can be wonderful; five melodeons are bad news unless they are well played.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:20 AM

And 100+ melodeons together is scary. ;)

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Lester
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:41 AM

Anahata said: Five fiddlers in a small session can be wonderful; five melodeons are bad news unless they are well played.

I agree but think you should apply the "well played" caveat to the fiddles as well

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM

@Lester. Agreed. You wouldn't want five clones of me playing fiddle. Unless you wanted a headache and every cat in the neighbourhood to start meiowing in protest.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 11:48 AM

melodeons here in ireland are single row, two row and three row instruments are called button accordions.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: treewind
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 02:37 PM

Well, in case there was any confusion, I think we are mostly talking about the 2-row D-G instruments in D and G in the context of English music, when that is called a melodeon.

Single row instruments are in a relative minority and not threatening domination, though they may come close to it at one of the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust's weekends...

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Fidjit
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:15 PM

Actually they are called "Diatonic Accordions"
wanna make one

Check it out

Chas

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Dec 10 - 04:32 PM

I occasionally do a count of instruments at the sessions here in Sussex. I fondly remember one occasion when, out of about twenty musicians, there were nine fiddlers. Generally, fiddles and concertinas of various sorts vie for top position followed by melodeons. There are usually one or two banjos. After that, mandolins, whistles, bouzoukis, guitars... are minority instruments. There are a couple of good accordian players in the area but they generally don't come to the sessions that I know.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 03:56 AM

I use my melodeon when I'm caling folk dances and playing for them. Its light weight and sufficiently loud to let the rest of the band hear without fold back. It really is ideal for that.

None of my other instruments would work so well - the blowey things for obvious reasons, my small accordian runs out of notes and the fiddle is not so easy to use when talking into the mike. My mandolin is not loud enough, although I have thought of getting one with a built in pick up as the next best alternative.

The melodeon has the drawback that I dont have many choices of keys or accidentals. I tend to stick to fairly simple tunes anyway as I am concentrating on what the dancers are doing rather than what I am playing. The rest of the band do clever accompanyments round the tune. I think it is for these reasons that the melodeon is likely to dominate folk dancing.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:18 AM

Collective noun for melodeons = a "migraine".

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:18 AM

how many melodeon players does it take to change a lightbulb?






depend whether you are pushing or pulling...........


I'll get my rag coat.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Marje
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:29 AM

They may be called "diatonic accordions" in the US (and France), or "button accordions" in Ireland, and it's interesting to have this clarified, but the original poster made it clear that he was talking about English music and dance. In this context the instrument (most commonly a two-row) called a "melodeon", which is a useful way of distinguishing it from other accordions without having to use two words. That's what it's called here, whether used for morris or for social dance as part of a band.

A melodeon has undeniable advantages as a dance instrument. It's got the capacity for melody, bass and rhythm all at once, and its soudn carreis well. Relative to the piano accordion, its compact size and punchy sound are often preferred by dancers (I'm still talking about England, not Scotland where the piano accordion, and even the piano, are far more prevalent than in England).

This doesn't necessarily make it the ideal session instrument, as there is an optimum number of melodeons, beyond which the sound tends to become mushy and messy. Many melodeon players do play another instrument so that they can vary their contribution at a session. I switch to playing recorder (not very well, alas) at times, while other melodeon players I know also play whistle, pipes or clarinet, or simply drop out of certain tunes that don't suit their playing style. It's only really at festivals that I've seen the fearsome fifteen-or-more melodeon sessions.

Marje

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:52 AM

Has anyone heard Pete Coe's song about the sound of Hohner
'Hello Squeezebox my old friend, I've come to torture you again.' not what Simaon and g had in mind!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM

Maybe it should be like the smokers - outdoors only!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: G-Force
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:27 AM

Q:   What's the difference between a melodeon and a piano accordion?

A:   Melodeons speed up.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM

I think in indoor sessions melodeons should act like most irish drum players - only one at most playing at a time- and sometimes none. Different when you are out doors with the morris. Its a courtesy thing.

Same goes for most intruments. I dont play much bluegrass but I do like the way they play backing chords while each player in turn can play the tune or some variation of it.

I don't think I could cope with that while calling dances - and this thread is about dance music. I'll stick with the melodeon for that.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: banjoman
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM

I once read that the only time a mute swan makes a sound is immediatly before it dies. Pity the same cannot be said for melodeons.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:38 AM

I was sitting in a pub at a festival a few months back with a melodeon player opposite.

We got into a conversation and he said:- "I could teach you to play one of these in 20 minutes".

I believed him!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Marje
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:47 AM

So did you try it, Acorn4? If I thought I could learn to play a new instrument in 20 minutes, I wouldn't be able to resist having a go. I'd feel very smug indeed if I actually managed it.

I think the "only one melodeon" rule for a session is a bit extreme. If I start a session tune on my melodeon, I'm a bit gutted if no other melodeon player joins in, and they all just sit there. I'd say the optimum number is greater than one, but it does depend on the playing styles and capability of the players. Many people learn best by playing alongside others, perhaps very tentatively at first, while others learn a new tune by trying out just the melody, or just the bass, while they get the hang of it. Sometimes the chance to do these things together, learning from each other, is more important than getting the optimum overall sound, especially in very informal settings.

Marje

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 11:58 AM

Simon Care can dance of course while playing squeezebox of whatever variety!!!

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: ollaimh
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:36 PM

i've watched morris dancers all dressed up like the dogs breakfast and as i highland scott i have to say youse guys have a lot of nerve making fun of us for wearing dresses.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 02:47 PM

Some English Dances and Instruments

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:29 AM

marj

I think you are right. It depends upon the size of the room and the nature of the session. When I first got my melodeon I found it very hard to play softly or to play anything other than the set tune. I would have had lots of hard looks if I had used it thus.

It is a great instrument for playing outdoors - you can even play it under a cycle cape.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:24 AM

I like melodeons actually,but ---it can get irritating when one goes to a "festival", and several players in different adjacent tents / caravans start to "warm up" simultaneously ( all playing different tunes at different speeds,of course !).

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Alan Day
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:04 AM

On my first Saturday evening at Sidmouth many years ago, two lads played melodeons outside my tent at three in the morning and refused to shut up. On the Thursday evening at three o'clock I returned the compliment with my concertina outside their tent. I bet they never did it again.
Al

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:07 AM

One of the reasons (apart from my valubles not being insured) that I don't camp in a tent at festivals is noise -whatever it is musical or otherwise- when I want to catch up on my beautysleep.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 10:46 AM

The problem with melodeons in sessions (and piano accordions as well, for that matter) is the basses. If you have several of them all plugging away at their basses, then that's when it gets mushy and horrible, especially if they are all playing slightly different chords - which they often are. multiple melodeons are fine as long as only one is playing the basses at any time. If there is a guitarist in the room, then it's better if none are playing their basses.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 01:54 PM

tootler, unless the guitarist is so bad that he needs the melodeon basses to put him in the right direction of the chord ,it happens and not infrequently

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:26 PM

Fair comment, Dick.

On the other hand, I remember a session when there was a PA player who seemed totally unable to leave the basses alone. All through the session there was this um chuck um chuck going on which became irritating by the end as there was no variety in it. There was another PA player at the same session who came regularly and was very good. She used her basses sparingly and the result was they were much more effective. She would often only use her basses on the second or even third time through a tune so it made for variety on a repeat of the tune. I've also known melodeon players in sessions who only play their basses sparingly. Again, it's more effective. If you listen to the likes of Andy Cutting or Tim Van Eyken or Julian Sutton, you will find they have a great deal of variety in the use of basses which makes their playing interesting.

It's different when playing for dancing as it the basses have a rhythmic function.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Alan Day
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 06:33 PM

Also Tootler the players you mention do not play their instrument as if working out in a gym,they play with technique and skilful use of chords.
Al

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 09:11 AM

Guest FloraG

Under a bike cape eh?, could get a chap run in I fear.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Marje
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 10:39 AM

A bike cape is fine if you have one handy, but I have been known to play mine in a black bin liner. Fortunately Flora and I are both female, so less likely to attract suspicious glances as we fumble for our buttons beneath our outler layers.

Marje

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 11:13 AM

It is a flourescent yellow one mike. If you are going to do it do it proud.

I used to play for one of the largest childrens morris sides and they enjoyed dancing in the rain. I think very few children ever go out in the rain these days - so it was always a great hoot to get soaked. We had a few Sweeps and Dickens festivals where the heavens opened. We danced in green and yellow.

Where do you hold your melodeon Mike? Me - I have short straps.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: Fidjit
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM

Flora.

Don't think Mike has a melodeon,


Chas

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:54 PM

I thought every consenting adult played the melodeon - but some don't admit to it.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 10 - 04:27 AM

Is playing the melodeon like voting Conservative then?