Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live

Subject: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:50 AM

a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_XXT0UTVY">For anyone that missed it last night

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:51 AM

Woops!

Let's try that again....

Mumford & Sons at The Brits - Live

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM

Not keen Lizzie. I mean, I've heard of minimalistic guitar style, but theres minimalistic, and theres rather crappy. I think your mate errs on the latter side of the equation.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: BanjoRay
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:53 AM

The banjo player's pretty useless as well...(IMHO)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:55 AM

Oh, tish.... :0)

They were refreshing in their simplicity after all the other stuff...slightly miserable song though I have to admit, but genuinely performed I reckon.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

We saw the Creole Choir of Cuba last week at the shortly to close Clocktower in Croydon (thanks blair/brown), they were superb - in a class of their own. Less than one minute of mumfords was all I could stand.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

This song and what I can find on YouTube are fairly low energy, and yes, minimalistic. Their performance at the Grammy Awards was full of energy.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:59 AM

I thought it was great - very effective arrangement. Less, in this case, is definitely more.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM

'Less than one minute of mumfords was all I could stand'

What a delicate constitution you must have!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:14 PM

Isn't the main problem with the Mumfords that they are a bit, um, boring?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:21 PM

No its a great name for a house removals firm. Very imaginative!

The point is lots of people do like them, and they play acoustic instruments. so we may get kids inspired by them to play and write songs. Some may be all right.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:39 PM

look.. I used to really enjoy Del Amitri and The Hothouse Flowers..

..and if you looked in my old LP collection up in my mum's attic
you'd find many prime examples of early to mid 70's Soft Rock bands..

.. and I wouldn't be that surprised to find out many of my old favourites
turned out to be ex public school..

So as for the Mumsfies retro appeal,
continuing this long tradition of shamelessly insipid commercial acousticyfolksiesofty pap pop..

I'm not that bothered to the extent of disliking them..


I'm just a bit indifferent, I heard much better in the past...
and guess I would prefere to make the effort to rediscover better examples of the vintage genre of bands
that the Mumfs are genetically evolved from..

The only actively negative problem I have with them
is my Mrs's overblown enthusiasm for their CD.

One Sunday she played it so many times in rotation
the weedy sound of their voices was starting to antagonise me so much
I needed to walk out the house...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Banjman
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:44 PM

Well, I've had a look at a couple of You Tubes. Best of luck to them, proper instruments (trendy banjos!!!), OK harmonies. Didn't like the songs I've heard so far much though.

A bit Old Crow Medicine Show..... but OCMS have better choons IMHO (and 2 banjos!).

I'll keep listening, I like what I think they are trying to do. And they're far, far better than most "pop" music out there.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: brezhnev
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:57 PM

it was very difficult to hear it in our house as my wife kept shouting at the Son with the yellow hat to take it off.

it's official, though: nu-folk is going to save the music industry! Expect an A&R man from Universal to come knocking at your door some time soon. Hurrah!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:06 PM

We saw the Creole Choir of Cuba last week at the shortly to close Clocktower in Croydon

Bloody outstanding in Brighton. At one point the six women came to the front of the stage all caught one another's eyes and then all six launched together in harmony into a song without anyone being given a note. How do they do that? The shifting pattern of their harmonies between the ten members was quite outstanding. They displayed a level of musicality that the aforementioned acoustic pop group - or 99% of those active on the British folk scene for that matter - could not hope to match.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 03:20 PM

"Isn't the main problem with the Mumfords that they are a bit, um, boring?"

Cringe...well they did want to add a light show ala Pink Floyd, but then they thought..."how very sixties that was" sorry to disappoint.

and punkfolkrocker. for some who professes to be indifferent and "not that bothered" you do rather go on a bit.

To each their own folks, I mean Mumford and Sons are exactly my cup of tea but they do have their fan base and they're fully entitled to it.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 03:38 PM

well BUNG, seeing as you called me out..

I was merely adding a little timely objective historical & cultural perspective...




..oh all right, and I can't resist any opportunity to take the piss
out of the wife's current fad favourite music acts...

she's not too far off the menopause and trying too hard to convince her 15 year old niece
that she can still get down cool & hip with the youths..

ah bless her little cotton thong & jeggings....

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:13 PM

They have these things called monitors, which these days they stick in their lughole unseen, Vic. they probably got their starting note through that. Its one of the black arts!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:50 PM

Dare I say I don't like the Mumfords without fear of retribution?

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:56 PM

Not that I would say that of course...

:D

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:01 PM

...I wouldn't dare.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:08 PM

Well of course you can say it, but frankly its a bit rich coming from a hardened folkie. One is pretty much inured to listening to all sorts of garbage if you attend folk clubs. Very often at very great length - in fact - there seems to be some sort of reverse ratio involving - the average amount of talent and entertainment value in reverse proportion to the amoount of time they want to take up in the singaround.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

Are they British or American? The silly hats suggest that they could be American ... but ... have I missed something?

Anyway, can anyone tell me what they have to do with folk music? Is it because of the banjo and guitar ... possibly? Whatever musical genre they are supposed to represent, I nodded off after about 30 seconds.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:14 PM

Shock, horror, gasp! Alan - Are you suggesting for one minute that I am a Folkened Hardy? That, sir, is a slight on my good name as an avid listener to Death Metal, House, Techno Rave and Donny Osmond! May your melodions turn to Korgs...

:D

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:21 PM

British, Shimrod. And they must be Folk because the luvvies in the meeja keep telling us so...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:43 PM

Well Shimrod it works like this. In a few weeks some kids turn up at your folk club. They sound like shit and they have been influenced by mumford and sons to pick up a guitar or banjo.

From then on the balls in your court. You can be kind and encourage them and do anything you can to get them to improve, or you can look down your nose.

Always remember though, Carthy was originally a skiffler. We all have our points of entry and if you aren't born into the Watersons, theres no telling what it might be.

Thats the connection with folk music. take it or leave it.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 07:19 PM

I thought Plan B was good.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:36 PM

Yeh, sadly that's the line taken by a lot of folk clubs. You can see the regulars riffling through their loose leaf folders to choose the longest song to make sure the youngsters don't get a second spot.

Politeness and taking an intelligent interest in them costs nothing though. You can compliment them on their nice guitar, ask to have a look at it (tune it for them on the quiet) - ask what their favourite singers are. Choose a short entertaining attractive song, so that they see the material that does work and entertains in a folk club setting - rather than the shapeless recorded bilge they're invariably listening to. In short - be a role model, rather than a frosty old fart.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM

Accidentally caught a Radio interview with Steve Knightley last night, and he described Mumford et al as "so much froth that wouldn't last whilst others more worthy continue to struggle"
I make no comment, am just the messenger.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:02 AM

Yeh I suppose so. But look at it another way, I was accused on the thread that dare not say its name, of not listening to other artists.

Just look at the scale of these blokes success. See the numbers visiting their site. Lots more than Show of hands in a much shorter time. That translates into 100 grand advances on every song in their albums, luxury hotel suites, limos everywhere, anything they want from the martin guitar magazine - probably given to them free, etc.

And above all its why the kids won't be twisting the night away at Ruth's Tamla Motown 'Grab a Granny' disco.

The only way it affects us is that the young disciples of Mumford will turn up at our clubs. And the question is, do we rise to the challenge. Or do the fiddle and squeezebox boys dig out their 90 minute medley (and then look at each in conspiratorial friendship and post-coital bliss) to keep the kids in their place.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:53 AM

RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Ralphie - PM
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM

Accidentally caught a Radio interview with Steve Knightley last night, and he described Mumford et al as "so much froth that wouldn't last whilst others more worthy continue to struggle"
I make no comment, am just the messenger. <<<<


How much more respect I'd have had for Steve Knightley had he shown the integrity and understanding of Al Whittle's posts above...and seen the Mumfords not as 'froth' but as a mixed menu of talent that would bring many young people into the folk world.

Seems to me that Steve needs to listen to his own song...that being 'Roots'...because somewhere along the way, in the rush to bowandkowtow to the Gods of the Holy Grail of Traditional Folk, he seems, only imo obviously, to have lost his way a bit.

Give me back the Show of Hands who used to talk of making Folk acceptable to everyone, breaking down the barriers, removing the fences....rather than standing beside the very people who've erected those barriers and guard them with their lives...

Life moves you on, eh?

'Tremble, little Lion Man....'

Mumford's 'Lion Man'

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:58 AM

Oh, and just for the record, I hear in the Mumfords what I heard in Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman, so if Steve really thinks they nowt but froth, well....he's kinda shot himself in the Quattro in my eyes at least...

'The Cave' (love this one!) :0)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:09 AM

Lovely video clip here...brings a smile.

The 'Frothy' Ones, talking about how lucky, honoured and happy they feel

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:26 AM

Don't worry Lizzie, in ten years time when the record company money dries up - the Mumfords will be doing Cambridge, Fylde, Whitby and if times are really hard - Wessex and Cromer. They will welcome Steve onstage as their original inspiration, and the circle will be squared.

I may not be there to see it. But it came to me in a vision.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:52 AM

I went to see and hear Will Pound and Dan Walsh last night. Brilliant gig and a real (clawhammer) banjo player. Stunning.

And no worries, lots of people encouraging them.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:03 AM

The Mumfords appear to have been practicing for next year's Folk Awards.

Mumford & Sons boozy bender after Brits Win

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:10 AM

Can I offer a thought? (Nicely put, by the way, Al)

Those of us weaned on traditional, light, church etc. music - and, indeed, 50s-80s pop - tend to have chord progressions in our dna to the extent that songs made without them sound 'wrong.'

But there are lots of other musical structres in the world, and one that's gradually come to prominence in the Global North, starting in progressive rock and then moving into 80s+ pop via people like Radiohead, Coldplay and many others is more pattern-based (I would say riff-based but this is more stripped out), rather than chord based. You do get a lot of repetition, but it tends to be skeletal rather themic. Another descriptor is extensive use of seemingly random accidentals - which you soon get used to if you listen to if often enough (as I do on long car journeys with my son).

Music is all about recognition. We tend to prefer music that's quite like stuff we already know, so if you don't listen to a lot of that second genre (as most folkies probably don't) then it does indeed sound both boneless and boney, (if you know what I mean) - or even 'frothy.'

There are, however, millions of (largely younger) people who are well used to those shapes - and to them the Mums are a refreshing new sound in a well-established genre.

Tom

And I'll say again, because it needs saying every day till people stop and think about it: No, I personally wouldn't call that music folk (folk-ish, perhaps), but I'm in a minority. A huge majority of (largely younger) people do think that's the correct word, and have done so for generations - which is why the media (who may have started it in the 60s but now merely reflect popular language) continue to do so. That said, I'd be disappointed if the Mums started winning 'Folk' awards, but only because they obviously don't need to.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

"Well Shimrod it works like this. In a few weeks some kids turn up at your folk club. They sound like shit and they have been influenced by mumford and sons to pick up a guitar or banjo.

From then on the balls in your court. You can be kind and encourage them and do anything you can to get them to improve, or you can look down your nose."

Are we being a tiny bit touchy, Alan? I would never be discouraging to anyone who came to our club!

Actually, the circumstance that you described has happened for real - the only difference being that the young people involved have taken the time and trouble to find out about folk song rather than arbitrarily describing what they do as 'folk'. Whenever I encounter a person or people (considerably) younger than me taking an interest in folk song I am delighted and do try to encourage them. I may be a purist but I hope I'm not an insensitive purist!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

"We'll carry on doing it long after the froth has died down", is what he says. I think he was really referring to the media treatment of Mumford as "folk".

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:17 AM

Interesting, Tom. Reecntly, I've started listening tp The Velvet Underground again and I'm surprised how 'contemporary' that straight C tuning sounds and how like a lot of the drones in celtic music. Hey, Venus in Furs could almost be mistaken for as folk song (until you listen to the words).

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:22 AM

Shimrod

"arbitrarily describing what they do as 'folk'. Please see my PS above. It is NOT arbitrary, and you are being grossly unfair to use that term. The kids may have been misled, but that misleading has been done by people they respect (parents, BBC, record companies etc etc) and has going on for 50 years. EVERYONE in their world, calls that music folk and always has. Ergo it is the correct word to use.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: evansakes
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:24 AM

I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth.

Before everyone gets their knickers in a twist I just listened again to make sure I hadn't mis-heard.

The discussion on the programme was provoked by Laura Marling and Mumford and Sons winning Brit Awards and Livesey's assertion that "Folk music is the new rock'n'roll".

After refuting Livesey's assertion that the folk scene had "gone mainstream again" Steve went on to say "These aren't people that you see in folk clubs. It's great that quality acoustic-based material is being played and heard by people, but it's not really the folk scene that's gone mainstream.....there's a certain sound people are making that you might call folky....but The Mumfords aren't from the folk scene. They're just using those sounds and textures which is brilliant. But I just think it's just a bit of a headline people are using and it will fade and become itself again.


When asked whether people who are close to the folk scene guard it jealously he replied

"No, not in the slightest, I think we want to spread the word but we just don't want it misinterpreted. As I said, it's marvellous, these are fantasticly well crafted songs played on acoustic instruments but whether they're connected to what we do for a living or what the scene's been doing for years (??)....I suspect we'll carry on doing it after the froth has died down a bit really"

There was no mention whatsoever of others more worthy continuing to struggle....

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:40 AM

"I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth..."

Thank you, Gerry. In that case, I withdraw my comments above.

Perhaps Ralph would care to explain where he heard those words being spoken?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:43 AM

I've been listening to Sandy Denny - the previously unreleased stuff on the 19 CD boxed set - now who the hell are the mumfords?????

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:47 AM

When I spoke of post coital bliss Tom, it was nothing personal.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:10 AM

"I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth..."

Thank you, Gerry. In that case, I withdraw my comments above.

Perhaps Ralph would care to explain where he heard those words being spoken? >>>>>>>>


I also apologise to Steve Knightley for my comments above.   

It seems I took the word of the wrong person, but it was my decision to take that word, so I accept the responsibility for doing that without checking they were telling the truth first.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:49 AM

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:43 AM

<<" I've been listening to Sandy Denny - the previously unreleased stuff on the 19 CD boxed set - now who the hell are the mumfords????? ">>

hi Bonzo et al

Today's Daily Express does a double paged report on the "new folk revival" featuring The Mumfords and others. I will leave it to others to comment......!!!

By the way I quite enjoy Mumfords. I too wouldn't describe it as folk but it looks like that is what the up-and-coming new musicians are going to think - if they already don't.

It is refreshing that music is constantly evolving. The interesting thing with The Mumfords is that as usual Mudcat seems to spending most of it's time trying to categorise the music rather than enjoying it for what it is.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:49 AM

Go to 5 minutes from the end.

Knightley Interview

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM

"And above all its why the kids won't be twisting the night away at Ruth's Tamla Motown 'Grab a Granny' disco."

Will they not, Al? Do you even know who's in the band, or what size or age of crowd we attract to these events? Have you ever been to one? It's a ceilidh, by the way, not a disco, but there are plenty of pictures around on the net of last year's silent ceilidh and disco to give you a sense of the general age range we attract to Bulverton events.

"I was accused on the thread that dare not say its name, of not listening to other artists."

You were accused of dismissing, without even listening to them, a number of internationally significant bands as only suitable for the primary school parent's evening. You never did respond to say whether you were familiar with the music of *any* of the bands in question before you made your assertion.

I'm sorry Al, but your posts increasingly come across as the rantings of an embittered old man who has not a clue what is actually happening out there on the folk scene, but is only aware of his own (and a few of his mates')lack of bookings. You hearkened back to the days when some of your old favourites were filling folk clubs. The events that we host at the Bulverton attract up to a thousand people at a time, with a substantial proportion of them under 30 years of age. I'm not sure any folk club ever had that sort of capacity.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:22 AM

Quite right Ruth! I haven't got a clue. Everything is fine within the state of folkmusic. Under the stewardship of people like yourself every flower in the garden blooms. Every folksinger (well every significant folksinger of international repute) is gainfully employed playing to crowds of eager fans.

No wonder the world is dancing to the beat and singing the songs of all your favourite artists.

PS I think that medication is suiting you dear....

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:28 AM

"Today's Daily Express does a double paged report on the "new folk revival" featuring The Mumfords and others. I will leave it to others to comment......!!!"

They've made The Sun too.

Meet the folkers

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:25 AM

Al, folk is a minority interest. That's just a fact of life. If you're suggesting that simply giving more bookings to the bands that you like would have made it a mainstream interest, I think you're deluding yourself.

Within that minority interest, however, I (and many others) have observed (and commented upon) a substantial resurgence in recent years of younger people getting involved, attending festivals and gigs, and generally loving folk music.

Out of interest, which events/festivals have you attended in the last year or so? Because I rather suspect that, before passing judgement, you may need to get out more.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:37 AM

No sure what point you're attempting to make, Al. Are you saying that music is only any good if it can appeal to a wide enough demographic to shift huge numbers of units - and that conversely any music that is of more of a minority interest is by default crap? Surely there's some flaw in that sort of thinking? A flaw that suggests everyone involved with music should give up and go home unless they are specifically creating music engineered to appeal to the lowest common demoninator, most mainstream tastes? There's clearly a place for people who want to do that sort of thing (but not generally in my record collection!) but what a tedious musical world it would be if that was all we had. Give me diversity any day.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:44 AM

GUEST,Alan Whittle

The only way it affects us is that the young disciples of Mumford will turn up at our clubs. And the question is, do we rise to the challenge. Or do the fiddle and squeezebox boys dig out their 90 minute medley (and then look at each in conspiratorial friendship and post-coital bliss) to keep the kids in their place.

Of course they might get lucky and find this.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:48 AM

Everything is fine within the state of folkmusic

Al, it is clear that some of those who fit the "1968 definition" don't get as many bookings as you and (presumably) they think they deserve.

Apart from that - what do you think is wrong with the state of folkmusic for you clearly do seem to think that.

Lack of musicians? Lack of singers? Lack of young people coming through? Too many old people, failure of attendances.

What is it that you think is wrong?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:50 AM

Okay its a fair cop!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:21 AM

Wanted to express an opinion as a (just) under 25 year old.
1. Obviously they aren't 'Trad folk'...they are 'Acoustic-folk-pop'. (Same category I'd put some 'folk' from the 60's 70's in.)
2. I do find them a bit dull, not my cup of tea.
3. I have had several friends and siblings friends ask me if they can recommend any 'folk' music as I like 'folk' after hearing bands such as the mumfords. SO can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:52 AM

On second thoughts, why the hell should I apologise for my own music.   okay, so its shot with a cheap camera, in my cheap house on a cheap guitar.

The song itself is a terrific performance piece which is inevitably requested whenever I play, and it has been very difficult to record. Punk bands, have recorded it, the late John Mortimer selected for an Oxford Book of Villains Anthology, and my hero derek brimstone had a shot at it - but found he couldn't do the manic bit.

Now all you internationally recognised geniuses can go and wee up your incestuous legs.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: melodeonboy
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:04 AM

Surely you can only wee "down" your leg?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:23 AM

GUEST,Alan Whittle

On second thoughts, why the hell should I apologise for my own music.

No reason at all that I can think of. We all make and listen to the sort of music that appeals to us in all its variety and long may it be so. I was merely reiterating the point that you had made, and that Steve Knightley DID say in the interview, that anything like Mumford and Sons is not what people are going to find in folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:10 AM

All I want to know is what you feel is wrong with the state of folk music in this country at the moment, since your remarks are clearly intended to give that impression.

"It's a fair cop" is hardly an answer.

Of course to answer isn't compulsory but otherwise you really do come over as an embittered old man. I am delighted your song is requested where ever you go. I am delighted that others have recorded it. I am delighted it has appeared in a book by John Mortimer and that Derek Brimstone found it hard to play. Clearly a great series of recommendations for that song.

So go on Al tell us what has gone wrong since 1968.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:17 AM

Maybe there's fewer instances of spontaneous gratuitous hippy nudity since the summer of 1968...????

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Every mothers son
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:42 AM

So.....What part of America do they come from ?????

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Every mothers son
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 11:55 AM

Having checkedout all the videos I can only say...FOLK? are they FU*@

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

In answer to your question about which part of America Mumford & Sons are from - the singer and main songwriter Marcus Mumford is from California. Why do you ask?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:19 PM

While it's true he was born there to English parents, they re-patriated when he was a baby.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 12:25 PM

I can understand why in the big wide world beyond Mudcat, people describe them as "folk"

I can equally understand why here on Mudcat many feel they are folk.

However, do you have to be such miserable grumpy b****rs about it. Whether you like them or not is a matter of personal taste, but please don't be so grudging about their success.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Stu
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:02 PM

"Out of interest, which events/festivals have you attended in the last year or so?"

Is this relevant? Do you have to attend festivals and 'events' to be a folkie?

I have been to precisely zero folk festivals ever and no gigs in the past year (not enough money). I have, however, been practicing my instrument daily, attending sessions at pubs and mate's houses playing the tunes (and occasionally singing the songs). Am I a folkie?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:10 PM

Sugarfoot Jack, I asked because it seems relevant if Al has criticisms to make about the current folk scene, its health, and the ratio of young people who are taking part in specific events. I would think that one needs some experience of the events in question in order to comment on the current situation.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:20 PM

If this is British humour then I wish to dissaccoiated with it! Unless it is meant to be like Benny Hill of course. Lightweight, often crude and mainly meaningless...

:D

(Sorry Jeri - I agree so I know I shouldn't really)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:28 PM

.. now the Mumfs would certainly shoot up in my estimation if they showed enough bottle to cover

"ERNIE (THE FASTEST MILKMAN IN THE WEST"


.. so are they now high profile celeb enough for Comic Relief ???

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:36 PM

Okay this is my second go at this - my computer ate the last effort.

What went wrong big time was the cult of authenticity.

I think most of the guys who got the folk movement going were working in the tradition of the minstrels who had put together a sophisticated performance craft in the nightclubs and colleges of the USA - guys like Broonzy, Josh White and the Clancys. They influenced the likes of gerry Lockran, Derek, Alex campbell, the spinners, the ian Campbell folk group, a young Noel Murphy.

MacColl's style was very histrionic but it was so damn clever - even to this day you will get people swearing he was just being totally natural.

Somehow people got the idea that to express your seriousness about folksong - you were copping out if you had any presentational skills - going showbiz.

Enter the Melody Maker into the fray. In 1968, it came out every Thursday and sold nearly five million copies every week. Karl dallas its folk correspondent was dead in favour of the new seriousness. I remember talking to a pro singer around 1972, and he said, its bloody terrible - people read how wonderful these singers are in MM, they get bookings and the next week a club thats been going strong for seven or eight years is dead - completely empty.

Similar sorts of things happen nowadays to winners of the BBC folk competitions, I am told.

Anyway you say nowts wrong and folkmusic has always been a minority interest I remember a time when it wasn't. But if you are content with the present situation and it suits the majority. then I must be content also.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:37 PM

that was me

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:51 PM

"Similar sorts of things happen nowadays to winners of the BBC folk competitions, I am told."

Really? Have you been to many gigs of folk award winners? That Bellowhead - they sure know how to clear a room.


If folk is no longer a mainstream pursuit because of British "purists", then why didn't it remain more popular and fashionable in America? The truth is, it was a trend, and the problem with trends is that they become un-trendy. Folk became briefly faddish in the time you speak of, and it may well do again in the wake of Marling-Mumford mania - but it will most likely be another brief hiccup.

The current revival amongst the "purists" you despise - which includes a substantial number of young people - may not become a mainstay of popular culture (which is notoriously fickle anyway), but it certainly looks a lot more sustainable.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:53 PM

Al, I just don't recognise the folk scene you talk about. I go to most major festivals, some smaller festivals each year and couple of sessions most weeks, and lots of gigs.

I was at Cheltenham last weekend, a session Monday night in a pub. And last night I was at a gig with two amazingly talented young musicians with harmonica and banjo. They got a standing ovation from an audience with a wide age range, after playing traditional morris tunes, self-penned tunes and songs, and some American stuff. On Saturday night I am going to hear some Icelandic harmonies and a three-part all female acapella group. Clearly no sense of adventure there then.

In my home city there is so much music there is a monthly session devoted just to the tunes of 'O'Carolan". And a monthly folk train which is packed each month. Various Sunday and mid-week sessions. Singing and tune sessions.

The festivals I go to are packed with young people many of them outstanding musicians - not interested in being professional because they have jobs - but playing two or three times a week just the same for the love of music.

Now in the 60's and 70's I lived in two hotbeds of folk music Manchester and Hull. There wasn't anything like the participation there is now. Name a couple of good melodeon players from the 60's/70's? There were about six top-class melodeon players in a session in the hotel on Saturday night.

Name four good fiddle players from the 60's from England? Can't move from them now. There were four in Jon Boden's band last Friday night.

I first got interested in folk music in the early 60's. There are far more people playing and involved in folk music than ever.

You know for people who supposedly destroyed a really great scene by their attitudes - those you describe made a really bad job of it.

Except apparently with you.

And one small point of information - the Melody Maker has never sold 5 million copies. The generally agreed figure is around 200/300,000 at its height.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:12 PM

@ Sugarfoot jack - yes of course you are a folkie and keep going is my advice. A lot of young people with little money do volunteering at festivals. And beg/share lifts.

Lizzie you are talking absolute twaddle as usual. The shame is some people fall for it. The idea that people wanted England's biggest festival to fail is ludicrous. Totally barmy and exists only in your illogical and frankly warped imagination.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:18 PM

Yeh. Okay folk music is safe in your hands. Its not trendy with humanity in general, just purists like your self.

Nobody else's experience counts for anything. Yes I do attend folk events several times most weeks, Ruth. I would put my knowledge of the folk music business and its characters as not exhaustive, but large enough to be obsessive.

You know you guys remind me of that famous surrealist painting. A lounge full of nice middle class people and an express train hurtling through the fireplace. No one in the room, even tuns in surprise.

Purporting to be the folkmusic of a great nation when the vast majority of the population of that country find the sound of your music completely alien, is an absurdity. Like an express train smoking through the drawing room.

i'd say wake up to the disaster all around you. but such sweet slumber affords you such great contentment.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:30 PM

Bless.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: melodeonboy
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:50 PM

Blimey! I hope there's not going to be this much fuss every time a pop band uses a banjo (or other instrument seen by the media as "folky")!

And I still say you can't pee "up" your leg!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:00 PM

If you're standing on your head, you probably could, but I'd not advise it...Elf and Safetea and all that..

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:10 PM

Horse alert??

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:19 PM

I used to have this folkmusic encyclopaedia. In it was a fan letter from Peggy and Mike seeger when they were little kids to Earl Scruggs.

They were requesting Scruggs to play Fod, which is a bluegrass version of the old folksong Springfield mountain.

A few years later the purists were getting hot under the collar saying that Scruggs in particular, but bluegrass in general wasn't folk.

As the man on the door at The Grey Cock Folk Club said to me many years back - we've got to draw the line somewhere - meaning me as I'd said my main influence was Ralph McTell. I don't really know where the purist get off(apart from being ingratiating with folk legends) but they've said no to a hell of a lot of ordiary English folk, people who thought they had something to express.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:28 PM

Who are these purists you keep banging on about, Al? And what are they being pure about? When I googled I found this. Is this what you mean?

Melodeonboy, I reckon something like this should do it...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:33 PM

Yes I do attend folk events several times most weeks,

I must admit I find this a bit of a surprise. Judging by the influences you have cited, Ralph McTell, Alex Campbell, Derek Brimstone etc etc. then I thought you had stopped once the 1968 definition had been established.

So where does the folk scene that you go to several times a week differ from the one I go to several times a week? You really haven't said anything about the current scene that you see Al.

It has occurred to me that perhaps there are two parallel folk scenes, one that stopped developing in 1968 (once it had been defined) and the one I and loads of young people go to.

Come up with any fiddlers or melodeon players from the 60's yet Al?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:34 PM

And clearly - in case of doubt that last guest was me.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:57 PM

I'm trying to figure out what defines me as a "purist". In addition to all the stuff I mentioned earlier, we have singer-songwriters like Dougie MacLean, Alasdair Roberts, Steve Knightley, Roy Bailey, Belinda O'Hooley and Karine Polwart. We have songwriters' workshops, and a whole series of songwriters' interviews. I've booked Ralph McTell in the past, too. So this "purist" label is a complete red herring.

"I don't really know where the purist get off(apart from being ingratiating with folk legends) but they've said no to a hell of a lot of ordiary English folk, people who thought they had something to express."

Well, a lot of people think they have something to express. A LOT. I get about a dozen approaches every day. Even with 600 events to fill I could not accommodate them all if I wanted to. So I have to make a judgement about what I think is interesting, exciting, and that will excite and interest our audiences. That's my job. It's not to give a platform to every single aspiring singer-songwriter in Britain - it's to put on the best music I can find. If I don't think something is good enough, I don't book it. It's really that simple.


I can only assume I am a purist because I have never booked Al Whittle and a few of his mates.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:16 PM

I suspect I am regarded as a purist too.

I publish a playlist of my radio programme each week under the heading Thank Goodness It's Folk on Mudcat and Facebook. You can work out how pure I am from that.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:55 PM

Actually a lot of gigging musicians share my opinions - however unlike me they've not retired with a dickie heart. So they keep schtum, for fear of offending the heavy mob.

That's why despite your yelps of protest Dave and oft repeated insistence that I name names, I never reveal name and pack and packdrill.

But never think that acts of unkindness and rejection go unnoticed and unremarked.

Any place with irish people had fiddlers - 1968 and before. We didn't see its rellevance to us, and they didn't really see their relevance to us. Ian Campbell was something of visionary - recording a Bob Dylan song and having a fiddle player.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:50 PM

Melodeon players - sorry i forgot that one. Well there was Bob Cann (he had a sort of folk evening over near Okehampton, where my sister lived) and i figure there was melodeon playing going on in the places The Yetties knew about. I went to the Jolly porter in Exeter in those days - where The journeymen and the young Tony Rose played. Quite a traddy venue. The trad singing was mainly unaccompanied. I went to Sidmouth a couple of times back then - I suppose there must have been melodeon players.

There were accordion players - Johnny Handle. I think Pete Wood was around not long after that - he was concertina of course. I dunno, I'm not sure I would have known what a melodeon was even. I was a dumb kid. I thought Mike Cooper had made his National Dobro with a meccanno set, or in metalwork class.

But I think really we viewed folk music as something of the future , rather than digging up stuff from the past. people like Dylan and Joni Mitchell had done something for songwriting like Picasso had done for painting. And that's what people were in the mainstream folkclubs(which far outnumbered the trad ones) to hear.

Anyway... all gone

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 08:54 PM

Look I've been thinking. I seriously apologise if I've hurt anyone's feelings. But this conversation is going nowhere. we don't agree. I don't want to end up like that bloke Keith endlessly arguing about sod all.

If I come on like that I am sorry. I do feel maybe when musicians get together - the war stories start coming out. Perhaps as a dj and a festival organiser, they walk on eggshells round you maybe.

or maybe they have endless admiration for you both - how would I know. Lets hope that is the case. Your names have never come up, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:03 AM

There really weren't many melodeon players around Al. I know I was there. There are now half a dozen good ones in my home town and I don't have to struggle to think of them.

I know about the Irish fiddlers but I do find your remark about their relevance strange. Sounds you wee being a bit f a purist there! There were a dozen top class fiddlers last weekend in the session last Sunday and none of them were playing Irish music. My home town has another dozen. As for looking to the future - it has arrived.

I am lucky I live in Sheffield with a great folk scene. But it isn't that unusual.

I doubt people walk on eggshells around me Al. I don't have that many listeners!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:35 AM

purist, probably your right. The needle was there between the two encampments - even back then.

This folk package tour with The watersons and Bert Jansch and the Yetties and Fred Jordn cam to town (Exeter) 1965 or '66. Martin Carthy reckons he was there, but I can't remember him. Jansch had been marketed as the English Dylan, so naturally there were loads of people there who just wanted to hear the songs off that blue album.

Poor old Fred, he got about two songs in and these kids started giving him the bird. They were horrible. i'd read Dallas's review of fred ('a voice like cold water falling onto a stone') and I was quite into him.

Similarly there was this brilliant young American guitarist/banjo player called Marc Sullivan. Pete Quin is the only other person who seems to remember Marc's existence. Anyway he spent the summer down along the south coast of England. the traddies had many a voluble discussion drowning out Marc's efforts.

purist....well i knew which side I was on.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: johncharles
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:01 AM

mumford and Sons have variously been described as, Folk, Folk/Rock, Folk/Rock/Indie. It is, a how long is a piece of string question, where agreement to differ might be better than some of the unpleasant exchanges in this thread.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:07 AM

let it go Liz. Sometimes you could cry for the pity of it (efforts of a creative lifetime consigned to oblivion), but there isn't any percentage in swapping insults. They feel the way they do. we feel the way we do.

There isn't a conversation there, as they say.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:27 AM

"The English Folk World is, at times, a very disturbing one, in my eyes, because of the bitchiness and bullying that lies within it ..."

That's a world that I don't recognise, Lizzie.

Let's just imagine another world for a moment ... oh I don't know, 'The English Free-range Stamp Collectors Collective', perhaps? Anyway, there they are collecting their free-range stamps, swapping them and discussing their finer points and technical details such as what to feed them, how much and when. Suddenly in bursts someone forceful and characterful who shouts at them: "Stop doing what you're doing, you're doing it all wrong, start doing what I say or I'll shout at you some more!!" What do you think might happen then, Lizzie? Do you think that there's a possibility that they might get a bit irked and start shouting back?

Actually, in a completely different area of my life from the folk world, I find myself in a similar position to the forceful character above. But I know that if I start shouting at people they will ignore me and I will get nowhere. My intuition tells me that, if I'm to make progress, I have to keep my voice down, use tact and diplomacy, be patient but keep up the pressure. And do you know, I think it's beginning to work. I think I'm getting somewhere!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:44 AM

"And I have that 'officially' from the BBC team themselves."

Rubbish. Re-writing the past does not make your version of the past true. The BBC actually threatened you with legal action if you did not stop harrassing their staff - you put the bloody e-mail on line, so we all saw it (you seemed to find it hilarious at the time, but your sense of humour has always eluded me). Even now they shudder when they talk about you.

You got yourself banned from the BBC board for being obsessive about bands, attacking other members, and generally being a holy nuisance.

Similarly, you have never been anything to do with Sidmouth FolkWeek, and your ex-husband used to run some open mic sessions. You know absolutely nothing about the inner workings of the festival, and nothing you say about it comes with any authority. As with everything else in your strange little world, you have made up a lot of destructive lies with the intent of doing as much damage as possible. You really need to get some professional help. But just to set the record straight once and for all:

No one wanted Sidmouth FolkWeek to fail. No one was waiting in the wings to swoop and take over. The truth is that after 3 years of being run by a team of volunteers (including your husband), the festival was many tens of thousands of pounds in the red. The current board stepped up to the plate and bailed out the festival, which at that point really WAS in danger of dying, managed to convert some loans from local councils to grants and reducing (yes, reducing) the standing debt to £60k - which the current 3 directors covered from their *own pockets*.

I personally took a pay cut of two-thirds from my previous position in order to come on board and work for the festival in 2009 (so you can chuck your conspiracy theories about how I was plotting to take over the festival right out the window - the sale of my house actually subsidised me working for Sidmouth in my first year). Our technical partners, Stage Electrics, also did their best to help us through a difficult financial year. But we changed a lot of how things had been run previously - developing programming, and most important putting much-needed budgetary controls in place. The upshot is that, in my first year of the festival (2009), we made a surplus revenue of £20k. In 2008 the festival had LOST £20k. Last year, 2010, we made a surplus of £30k. The debts (run up during your ex-husband's time) are being paid off, we have new partnerships with nationally significant venues to tour shows we are originating, and the future looks pretty good. But in these difficult financial times, nothing can be taken for granted, so anyone continuously slinging lies and willful misinformation at the festival could still cause it substantial harm.

Nothing I have said is not already in the public domain. It has been explained to the businesses and the people of Sidmouth, who are completely on side - because EVERYONE wants the festival to survive and thrive, as it's good for the folk world and good for Sidmouth. Everyone, of course, except for a sad and embittered woman somewhere in Devon, who has decided that she must overthrow her "enemies" no matter how much damage she does or who else gets hurt. Mudcat have already removed three posts by her about Sidmouth from this thread and twice identified her as a troll, so I am sorry if this seems irrelevant, but I will not cower in a corner any more while she feels free to sling mud all over an event whose only sin is to be doing okay, no thanks to her.

So Lisa/Lizzie, please take your vivid imagination and your conspiracy theories elsewhere. Put your considerable energies into something - anything - constructive. But leave me and Sidmouth FolkWeek out of your nasty campaign. Again, I would be grateful if you do not speak to me or refer to me, or the organisation I work for, in future. I want nothing to do with you.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:54 AM

As I said, if you don't want people to comment on your unpleasant postings, don't write them.

I know what happened with the BBC, not you. Thanks for your version though.

They were taking steps to stop the 'witch hunt' against me, *their* words...I told them to name any member of staff I'd threatened or harrassed, they did not come back to me, until I took over their board, when finally they started to take notice. No-one was threatened, or harrassed, or anything else, personally, by me, but their complaints section got a rollicking, that's for sure...addressed to no-one at all.

Also the Head of their Customer Service Department agreed with all that I told her and was horrified by some of the comments she read on that board. She told me she'd look into it in far greater depth and for me to ring her back in 2 weeks, which I did....And then she told me, terribly apologetically, that she couldn't talk about it, wasn't allowed to, and that 'order' had come from far higher up.

Can I ask the Mudcat team why 'ruth archer's' vitriolic posts about me, and about Al, are permitted to remain on this board, and yet my answers to the allegations about me are now being removed??????


Please note, there is no personal vitriol in this post about you, just a re-addressing of the TRUE facts, about something that you know very little about because you were not privvy to what was going on at the time 'from the other side'.

And my husband (as he was back then) whether you like it or not, WAS a Director of Sidmouth, helping out in many areas, for quite a few years, wherever he was asked. Ask Derek Schofield, he was working alongside him...and The Acoustic Cafe brings in a fair amount of people to *your* festival too, so I'd support it, rather than belittle it.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:57 AM

Gee whizz, no wonder Mumford & Sons don't want to be a part of the 'official' English folk world...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:01 AM

Lizzie, you put on line the e-mail telling you to stop harassing BBC staff or they would take legal action. Anyone who ever saw the BBC board saw your obsessive campaigns and hysteria manifest on a regular basis.

I know Mel - in real life. You know, that thing that happens when you turn off your computer. So I know exactly what the staff looking after the messageboards thought of you.

Your husband was one of about a dozen people who worked on the festival after Mrs Casey left. But he was not a festival director in, say, the Steve Heap or Bill Rutter sense, much as you'd like to make it seem so. He ran open mic sessions, and from what I can tell is a very nice bloke. End of.

Point is, the festival is nothing to do with you. I am nothing to do with you. The BBC board does not even exist any more. Get a bloody life. Move on.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:03 AM

No one wanted Sidmouth FolkWeek to fail. No one was waiting in the wings to swoop and take over. The truth is that after 3 years of being run by a team of volunteers (including your husband), the festival was many tens of thousands of pounds in the red. The current board stepped up to the plate and bailed out the festival, which at that point really WAS in danger of dying, managed to convert some loans from local councils to grants and reducing (yes, reducing) the standing debt to £60k - which the current 3 directors covered from their *own pockets*.

I personally took a pay cut of two-thirds from my previous position in order to come on board and work for the festival in 2009 (so you can chuck your conspiracy theories about how I was plotting to take over the festival right out the window - the sale of my house actually subsidised me working for Sidmouth in my first year). Our technical partners, Stage Electrics, also did their best to help us through a difficult financial year. But we changed a lot of how things had been run previously - developing programming, and most important putting much-needed budgetary controls in place. The upshot is that, in my first year of the festival (2009), we made a surplus revenue of £20k. In 2008 the festival had LOST £20k. Last year, 2010, we made a surplus of £30k. The debts (run up during your ex-husband's time) are being paid off, we have new partnerships with nationally significant venues to tour shows we are originating, and the future looks pretty good. But in these difficult financial times, nothing can be taken for granted, so anyone continuously slinging lies and willful misinformation at the festival could still cause it substantial harm....>>>>>>


Gordon put in far more than the rest of you lot put together, to save Sidmouth...and for that he was metaphorically stabbed in the back and his reputation was dragged through the mud by folks on here and folks who are connected to Bellowhead, and the person concerned is one of your friends, I believe you've told me before. (please note, no names have been mentioned here)

ALL that I have said about some folks wanting the festival to be shut down completely, so the town would realise what they'd lost is absolutely true. There were plans afoot to do that...but others wanted to be sure that Sidmouth would be saved for generations to come...

And THEY are the people to thank for the festival you now have...because without them, Sidmouth may very well have died a horrible death, with the Town Council NOT allowing it to come back to the town. There was *always* that fear, that possiblity.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:09 AM

"Pete Quin is the only other person who seems to remember Marc's existence."

Just as an aside, would that be Pete Quin the ragtime and blues guitarist and singer/songwriter? If so, we were at school together and both helped to run Bridlington folk club at various times. I lost touch with him around 1967.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: johncharles
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:13 AM

Dear Ruth and Lizzie could you not continue this unedifying argument elsewhere.

---

Thread closed temporarily to stop the squabble. Lizzie Cornish and Ruth Archer, I'm sick of the both of you.
-Joe Offer-