Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live

Subject: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:50 AM

a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO_XXT0UTVY">For anyone that missed it last night

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 10:51 AM

Woops!

Let's try that again....

Mumford & Sons at The Brits - Live

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM

Not keen Lizzie. I mean, I've heard of minimalistic guitar style, but theres minimalistic, and theres rather crappy. I think your mate errs on the latter side of the equation.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: BanjoRay
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:53 AM

The banjo player's pretty useless as well...(IMHO)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:55 AM

Oh, tish.... :0)

They were refreshing in their simplicity after all the other stuff...slightly miserable song though I have to admit, but genuinely performed I reckon.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

We saw the Creole Choir of Cuba last week at the shortly to close Clocktower in Croydon (thanks blair/brown), they were superb - in a class of their own. Less than one minute of mumfords was all I could stand.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

This song and what I can find on YouTube are fairly low energy, and yes, minimalistic. Their performance at the Grammy Awards was full of energy.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 11:59 AM

I thought it was great - very effective arrangement. Less, in this case, is definitely more.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:08 PM

'Less than one minute of mumfords was all I could stand'

What a delicate constitution you must have!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:14 PM

Isn't the main problem with the Mumfords that they are a bit, um, boring?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:21 PM

No its a great name for a house removals firm. Very imaginative!

The point is lots of people do like them, and they play acoustic instruments. so we may get kids inspired by them to play and write songs. Some may be all right.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:39 PM

look.. I used to really enjoy Del Amitri and The Hothouse Flowers..

..and if you looked in my old LP collection up in my mum's attic
you'd find many prime examples of early to mid 70's Soft Rock bands..

.. and I wouldn't be that surprised to find out many of my old favourites
turned out to be ex public school..

So as for the Mumsfies retro appeal,
continuing this long tradition of shamelessly insipid commercial acousticyfolksiesofty pap pop..

I'm not that bothered to the extent of disliking them..


I'm just a bit indifferent, I heard much better in the past...
and guess I would prefere to make the effort to rediscover better examples of the vintage genre of bands
that the Mumfs are genetically evolved from..

The only actively negative problem I have with them
is my Mrs's overblown enthusiasm for their CD.

One Sunday she played it so many times in rotation
the weedy sound of their voices was starting to antagonise me so much
I needed to walk out the house...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Banjman
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 12:44 PM

Well, I've had a look at a couple of You Tubes. Best of luck to them, proper instruments (trendy banjos!!!), OK harmonies. Didn't like the songs I've heard so far much though.

A bit Old Crow Medicine Show..... but OCMS have better choons IMHO (and 2 banjos!).

I'll keep listening, I like what I think they are trying to do. And they're far, far better than most "pop" music out there.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: brezhnev
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:57 PM

it was very difficult to hear it in our house as my wife kept shouting at the Son with the yellow hat to take it off.

it's official, though: nu-folk is going to save the music industry! Expect an A&R man from Universal to come knocking at your door some time soon. Hurrah!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:06 PM

We saw the Creole Choir of Cuba last week at the shortly to close Clocktower in Croydon

Bloody outstanding in Brighton. At one point the six women came to the front of the stage all caught one another's eyes and then all six launched together in harmony into a song without anyone being given a note. How do they do that? The shifting pattern of their harmonies between the ten members was quite outstanding. They displayed a level of musicality that the aforementioned acoustic pop group - or 99% of those active on the British folk scene for that matter - could not hope to match.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 03:20 PM

"Isn't the main problem with the Mumfords that they are a bit, um, boring?"

Cringe...well they did want to add a light show ala Pink Floyd, but then they thought..."how very sixties that was" sorry to disappoint.

and punkfolkrocker. for some who professes to be indifferent and "not that bothered" you do rather go on a bit.

To each their own folks, I mean Mumford and Sons are exactly my cup of tea but they do have their fan base and they're fully entitled to it.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 03:38 PM

well BUNG, seeing as you called me out..

I was merely adding a little timely objective historical & cultural perspective...




..oh all right, and I can't resist any opportunity to take the piss
out of the wife's current fad favourite music acts...

she's not too far off the menopause and trying too hard to convince her 15 year old niece
that she can still get down cool & hip with the youths..

ah bless her little cotton thong & jeggings....

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:13 PM

They have these things called monitors, which these days they stick in their lughole unseen, Vic. they probably got their starting note through that. Its one of the black arts!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:50 PM

Dare I say I don't like the Mumfords without fear of retribution?

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 05:56 PM

Not that I would say that of course...

:D

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:01 PM

...I wouldn't dare.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:08 PM

Well of course you can say it, but frankly its a bit rich coming from a hardened folkie. One is pretty much inured to listening to all sorts of garbage if you attend folk clubs. Very often at very great length - in fact - there seems to be some sort of reverse ratio involving - the average amount of talent and entertainment value in reverse proportion to the amoount of time they want to take up in the singaround.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

Are they British or American? The silly hats suggest that they could be American ... but ... have I missed something?

Anyway, can anyone tell me what they have to do with folk music? Is it because of the banjo and guitar ... possibly? Whatever musical genre they are supposed to represent, I nodded off after about 30 seconds.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:14 PM

Shock, horror, gasp! Alan - Are you suggesting for one minute that I am a Folkened Hardy? That, sir, is a slight on my good name as an avid listener to Death Metal, House, Techno Rave and Donny Osmond! May your melodions turn to Korgs...

:D

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:21 PM

British, Shimrod. And they must be Folk because the luvvies in the meeja keep telling us so...

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 06:43 PM

Well Shimrod it works like this. In a few weeks some kids turn up at your folk club. They sound like shit and they have been influenced by mumford and sons to pick up a guitar or banjo.

From then on the balls in your court. You can be kind and encourage them and do anything you can to get them to improve, or you can look down your nose.

Always remember though, Carthy was originally a skiffler. We all have our points of entry and if you aren't born into the Watersons, theres no telling what it might be.

Thats the connection with folk music. take it or leave it.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 07:19 PM

I thought Plan B was good.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 08:36 PM

Yeh, sadly that's the line taken by a lot of folk clubs. You can see the regulars riffling through their loose leaf folders to choose the longest song to make sure the youngsters don't get a second spot.

Politeness and taking an intelligent interest in them costs nothing though. You can compliment them on their nice guitar, ask to have a look at it (tune it for them on the quiet) - ask what their favourite singers are. Choose a short entertaining attractive song, so that they see the material that does work and entertains in a folk club setting - rather than the shapeless recorded bilge they're invariably listening to. In short - be a role model, rather than a frosty old fart.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM

Accidentally caught a Radio interview with Steve Knightley last night, and he described Mumford et al as "so much froth that wouldn't last whilst others more worthy continue to struggle"
I make no comment, am just the messenger.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:02 AM

Yeh I suppose so. But look at it another way, I was accused on the thread that dare not say its name, of not listening to other artists.

Just look at the scale of these blokes success. See the numbers visiting their site. Lots more than Show of hands in a much shorter time. That translates into 100 grand advances on every song in their albums, luxury hotel suites, limos everywhere, anything they want from the martin guitar magazine - probably given to them free, etc.

And above all its why the kids won't be twisting the night away at Ruth's Tamla Motown 'Grab a Granny' disco.

The only way it affects us is that the young disciples of Mumford will turn up at our clubs. And the question is, do we rise to the challenge. Or do the fiddle and squeezebox boys dig out their 90 minute medley (and then look at each in conspiratorial friendship and post-coital bliss) to keep the kids in their place.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:53 AM

RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Ralphie - PM
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:36 AM

Accidentally caught a Radio interview with Steve Knightley last night, and he described Mumford et al as "so much froth that wouldn't last whilst others more worthy continue to struggle"
I make no comment, am just the messenger. <<<<


How much more respect I'd have had for Steve Knightley had he shown the integrity and understanding of Al Whittle's posts above...and seen the Mumfords not as 'froth' but as a mixed menu of talent that would bring many young people into the folk world.

Seems to me that Steve needs to listen to his own song...that being 'Roots'...because somewhere along the way, in the rush to bowandkowtow to the Gods of the Holy Grail of Traditional Folk, he seems, only imo obviously, to have lost his way a bit.

Give me back the Show of Hands who used to talk of making Folk acceptable to everyone, breaking down the barriers, removing the fences....rather than standing beside the very people who've erected those barriers and guard them with their lives...

Life moves you on, eh?

'Tremble, little Lion Man....'

Mumford's 'Lion Man'

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:58 AM

Oh, and just for the record, I hear in the Mumfords what I heard in Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman, so if Steve really thinks they nowt but froth, well....he's kinda shot himself in the Quattro in my eyes at least...

'The Cave' (love this one!) :0)

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:09 AM

Lovely video clip here...brings a smile.

The 'Frothy' Ones, talking about how lucky, honoured and happy they feel

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:26 AM

Don't worry Lizzie, in ten years time when the record company money dries up - the Mumfords will be doing Cambridge, Fylde, Whitby and if times are really hard - Wessex and Cromer. They will welcome Steve onstage as their original inspiration, and the circle will be squared.

I may not be there to see it. But it came to me in a vision.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:52 AM

I went to see and hear Will Pound and Dan Walsh last night. Brilliant gig and a real (clawhammer) banjo player. Stunning.

And no worries, lots of people encouraging them.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:03 AM

The Mumfords appear to have been practicing for next year's Folk Awards.

Mumford & Sons boozy bender after Brits Win

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:10 AM

Can I offer a thought? (Nicely put, by the way, Al)

Those of us weaned on traditional, light, church etc. music - and, indeed, 50s-80s pop - tend to have chord progressions in our dna to the extent that songs made without them sound 'wrong.'

But there are lots of other musical structres in the world, and one that's gradually come to prominence in the Global North, starting in progressive rock and then moving into 80s+ pop via people like Radiohead, Coldplay and many others is more pattern-based (I would say riff-based but this is more stripped out), rather than chord based. You do get a lot of repetition, but it tends to be skeletal rather themic. Another descriptor is extensive use of seemingly random accidentals - which you soon get used to if you listen to if often enough (as I do on long car journeys with my son).

Music is all about recognition. We tend to prefer music that's quite like stuff we already know, so if you don't listen to a lot of that second genre (as most folkies probably don't) then it does indeed sound both boneless and boney, (if you know what I mean) - or even 'frothy.'

There are, however, millions of (largely younger) people who are well used to those shapes - and to them the Mums are a refreshing new sound in a well-established genre.

Tom

And I'll say again, because it needs saying every day till people stop and think about it: No, I personally wouldn't call that music folk (folk-ish, perhaps), but I'm in a minority. A huge majority of (largely younger) people do think that's the correct word, and have done so for generations - which is why the media (who may have started it in the 60s but now merely reflect popular language) continue to do so. That said, I'd be disappointed if the Mums started winning 'Folk' awards, but only because they obviously don't need to.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

"Well Shimrod it works like this. In a few weeks some kids turn up at your folk club. They sound like shit and they have been influenced by mumford and sons to pick up a guitar or banjo.

From then on the balls in your court. You can be kind and encourage them and do anything you can to get them to improve, or you can look down your nose."

Are we being a tiny bit touchy, Alan? I would never be discouraging to anyone who came to our club!

Actually, the circumstance that you described has happened for real - the only difference being that the young people involved have taken the time and trouble to find out about folk song rather than arbitrarily describing what they do as 'folk'. Whenever I encounter a person or people (considerably) younger than me taking an interest in folk song I am delighted and do try to encourage them. I may be a purist but I hope I'm not an insensitive purist!

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

"We'll carry on doing it long after the froth has died down", is what he says. I think he was really referring to the media treatment of Mumford as "folk".

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:17 AM

Interesting, Tom. Reecntly, I've started listening tp The Velvet Underground again and I'm surprised how 'contemporary' that straight C tuning sounds and how like a lot of the drones in celtic music. Hey, Venus in Furs could almost be mistaken for as folk song (until you listen to the words).

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:22 AM

Shimrod

"arbitrarily describing what they do as 'folk'. Please see my PS above. It is NOT arbitrary, and you are being grossly unfair to use that term. The kids may have been misled, but that misleading has been done by people they respect (parents, BBC, record companies etc etc) and has going on for 50 years. EVERYONE in their world, calls that music folk and always has. Ergo it is the correct word to use.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: evansakes
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:24 AM

I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth.

Before everyone gets their knickers in a twist I just listened again to make sure I hadn't mis-heard.

The discussion on the programme was provoked by Laura Marling and Mumford and Sons winning Brit Awards and Livesey's assertion that "Folk music is the new rock'n'roll".

After refuting Livesey's assertion that the folk scene had "gone mainstream again" Steve went on to say "These aren't people that you see in folk clubs. It's great that quality acoustic-based material is being played and heard by people, but it's not really the folk scene that's gone mainstream.....there's a certain sound people are making that you might call folky....but The Mumfords aren't from the folk scene. They're just using those sounds and textures which is brilliant. But I just think it's just a bit of a headline people are using and it will fade and become itself again.


When asked whether people who are close to the folk scene guard it jealously he replied

"No, not in the slightest, I think we want to spread the word but we just don't want it misinterpreted. As I said, it's marvellous, these are fantasticly well crafted songs played on acoustic instruments but whether they're connected to what we do for a living or what the scene's been doing for years (??)....I suspect we'll carry on doing it after the froth has died down a bit really"

There was no mention whatsoever of others more worthy continuing to struggle....

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:40 AM

"I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth..."

Thank you, Gerry. In that case, I withdraw my comments above.

Perhaps Ralph would care to explain where he heard those words being spoken?

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:43 AM

I've been listening to Sandy Denny - the previously unreleased stuff on the 19 CD boxed set - now who the hell are the mumfords?????

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:47 AM

When I spoke of post coital bliss Tom, it was nothing personal.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:10 AM

"I also heard the short interview with Steve Knightley just before 1am on Tony Livesey's Five Live show....he categorically didn't diss the Mumfords or refer to them as froth..."

Thank you, Gerry. In that case, I withdraw my comments above.

Perhaps Ralph would care to explain where he heard those words being spoken? >>>>>>>>


I also apologise to Steve Knightley for my comments above.   

It seems I took the word of the wrong person, but it was my decision to take that word, so I accept the responsibility for doing that without checking they were telling the truth first.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: MikeL2
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:49 AM

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:43 AM

<<" I've been listening to Sandy Denny - the previously unreleased stuff on the 19 CD boxed set - now who the hell are the mumfords????? ">>

hi Bonzo et al

Today's Daily Express does a double paged report on the "new folk revival" featuring The Mumfords and others. I will leave it to others to comment......!!!

By the way I quite enjoy Mumfords. I too wouldn't describe it as folk but it looks like that is what the up-and-coming new musicians are going to think - if they already don't.

It is refreshing that music is constantly evolving. The interesting thing with The Mumfords is that as usual Mudcat seems to spending most of it's time trying to categorise the music rather than enjoying it for what it is.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:49 AM

Go to 5 minutes from the end.

Knightley Interview

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM

"And above all its why the kids won't be twisting the night away at Ruth's Tamla Motown 'Grab a Granny' disco."

Will they not, Al? Do you even know who's in the band, or what size or age of crowd we attract to these events? Have you ever been to one? It's a ceilidh, by the way, not a disco, but there are plenty of pictures around on the net of last year's silent ceilidh and disco to give you a sense of the general age range we attract to Bulverton events.

"I was accused on the thread that dare not say its name, of not listening to other artists."

You were accused of dismissing, without even listening to them, a number of internationally significant bands as only suitable for the primary school parent's evening. You never did respond to say whether you were familiar with the music of *any* of the bands in question before you made your assertion.

I'm sorry Al, but your posts increasingly come across as the rantings of an embittered old man who has not a clue what is actually happening out there on the folk scene, but is only aware of his own (and a few of his mates')lack of bookings. You hearkened back to the days when some of your old favourites were filling folk clubs. The events that we host at the Bulverton attract up to a thousand people at a time, with a substantial proportion of them under 30 years of age. I'm not sure any folk club ever had that sort of capacity.

Subject: RE: Mumford & Sons - Brits Performance Live
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 07:22 AM

Quite right Ruth! I haven't got a clue. Everything is fine within the state of folkmusic. Under the stewardship of people like yourself every flower in the garden blooms. Every folksinger (well every significant folksinger of international repute) is gainfully employed playing to crowds of eager fans.

No wonder the world is dancing to the beat and singing the songs of all your favourite artists.

PS I think that medication is suiting you dear....