BS: Delta Blues, what are they?

Subject: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 07 Sep 99 - 09:39 PM

In the thread about Starbucks Delta Blues CD a small discussion is brewing. What are Delta Blues? I suspect there are some artists on which most of us could agree. There are other artists on which we would definitely disagree.

Two artists that fall in my "definitely Delta" category are Bukka White and Son House. Both rely on a thumb-driven heavy driving bass beat for many songs with melody and frill notes added with an upward brush of one or two fingers.

But isn't Robert Johnson the King of the Delta Blues? The description above doesn't fit very well for him.

I await the opinions and suggestions of others. I suspect this discussion should be as cantankerous as the "what is folk music?" ones I've read.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 03:12 AM

This is an interesting question, and one to which I suspect we'll never get complete concensus over. The first problem here is whether the 'Delta Blues' is a stylistic category or a geographical one. Even then, either of these categories can be problematised; there is a great deal of blurring of boundaries. There are many blues artists who were born in the Delta, or lived in the region, but certainly wouldn't normally be described as 'Delta Blues' players. Then there are those - as the CD demonstrates - who probably never even visited the Delta, who are considered to be players of the Delta Blues (although, it would seem that in many of these cases the term Delta Blues, like the equally misleading 'Country Blues', has just come to mean any self-accompanied, acoustic, blues singer). Trying to define the Delta Blues in terms of style would probably prove even more difficult. For many people Robert Johnson has come to practically personify the style - largely because successive writers and record companies have billed him as 'The King of the Delta Blues'. However, it is clear from his recorded output that he has drawn influences from any number of different styles - Leroy Carr, Lonnie Johnson, Kokomo Arnold, Peetie Wheatstraw, Skip James, etc - many of which are clearly not 'Delta Blues'. With the development of the blues recording industry, blues stylistic traits, which might previously have been localised in Texas, Georgia, St Louis or Mississippi, were copied from records by guitarists and singers from other areas and incorporated into their styles. Consequently, it is very difficult to isolate a particular style and say 'this is pure Delta Blues'. The Mississippi Delta, like other major centres for the Blues - Chicago, St. Louis, etc - is a melting pot of styles. Many different musicians lived in the area, or passed through the area, passing on stylistic traits (learned from records, learned direct from other musicians, or just plain made up themselves) to others. This, then, has been the importance of the Delta; it has been a cultural crossroads where characteristics of blues style have come together.

Sorry, to ramble on like that, but you asked!

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From:
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 07:03 AM

I'm glad you did ramble on, Brian. I think the point about the influences of Robert Johnson is a very good one.

I think there is a style that one can call "First Generation Delta Blues". It consists of the guitar style described by Roger plus often the use of the bottleneck. I also associate it with singing with a very tight throat. In Patton's case it is a hoarseness while in House's case it is a throatyness. There are a number of blues singers that come out of the Delta that don't have that style. For example Robert Johnson and Big Bill Broonzy.

I would put Son House, Charley Patton, and Bukka White in the category of First Generation Bluesmen. I would also put Blind Willie Johnson there, although I don't know where he comes from.

Alan Lomax claims that Son House learned indirectly from Blind Lemmon Jefferson. I can hear the Jefferson influence in Patton too, and yet of course he is from Texas.

There are some people who use a wider definition of the Delta which includes parts of Texas and Louisiana and this classification puts Leadbelly and Jefferson in the Delta. Neither are what I would call First Generation Delta Bluesmen.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 08:03 AM

Murray, I broadly agree with you, but who influenced Patton, House and White - and Tommy Johnson, Ishmon Bracey, Rube Lacey, Dick Bankston and Willie Brown, etc. Wouldn't like to know who taught Patton to play slide like that?

What were the 'Delta Blues' like before these exponents? Was the blues played in the Delta prior to artists like these, or was the music perhaps more like that Of Mississippi John?

BTW Blind Willie Johnson was born in Texas, although I guess he got around a bit as well

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Easy Rider
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 09:05 AM

Though Mississippi John Hurt came from the Mississippi Delta, he was certainly NOT a Delta Blues man, as described here. His music was more in the Folk and popular (for his time) idiom and, to me, more closely related to the Piedmont style than the true Delta Blues style.

His songs were more melodic and lyrical than true Delta Blues. He kept a steady alternating bass, with his thumb, played melody with two fingers, and never bent notes or played single note licks. I also never saw him use a bottle neck or thumb pick or finger picks. I love his music and am trying to learn as many of his songs as I can find in TAB.

EZR

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 09:58 AM

Although he may not have used it on a lot of his songs, Mississippi John Hurt was a wonderful bottleneck player. One of the best examples is his rendition of "Talkin' Casey."

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Jon W.
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 11:02 AM

As for geographical location, I've read that the "Delta" is not the delta of the Mississippi at all, rather it is the delta of the Yazoo river as it flows into the Mississippi. This is further north in Mississippi, closer to Memphis than New Orleans. If you look on a map of that area you will recognize countless place names from Delta blues.

And about the music itself, to paraphrase the famous quote on obscenity "I can't define Delta blues music but I know it when I hear it."

Jon W.

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 08 Sep 99 - 06:11 PM

How would you characterize the Delta Blues style? I think of what I've heard of it as being very somber, somewhat freer in rhythm than Peidmont or Texas based Blues. I think of it as employing more single-stringed blues runs with a suggestion of chords rather than an insistent rhythmic thumb accompaniment. John Lee Hooker plays this style. I think a key element here would be isolation by the player from other styles.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From:
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 08:00 AM

Mike, I agree with you. Talking Casey is a great piece of bottleneck playing. I have heard nit-pickers say that Avalon Mis. is too high up to be considered part of the delta. Perhaps it was his placid personality; but interviews with Hurt don't reflect the racial oppression you get from some of the Delta people.

Jon, if that is the case I can slip Furry Lewis in as one of the First Generation Delta Bluesmen. Some of his songs, like "Goin' to Brownsvile" are very Delta-ish.

Rider, Stefan Grossman's Guitar Workshop has a lot of Hurt's music in Music/Tab form. There is a book called "The Music of Mississippi John Hurt" by Grossman Published by Belwin. Some of the things he did for Vanguard in the 60s Can be found in "Ledgends of Country Blues Guitar" by Grossman, published by Mel Bay. Neither book is very expensive. By the way, I think Hurt does bend a few notes in "Payday".

I was listening to Patton's "Spoonful" recently. He's gotta have that guitar on his lap because he seems to slide almost up to the soundhole. Perhaps he saw a Hawaiian steel guitar player. There were some around in the early 20s and probably before. Jimmie Rodgers made use of one in some of his recordings,

It has always been my suspicion that before the Delta style came along, the earlier musicians played an imitation of stride piano--like Leadbelly did and like the bluesmen further east (eg Blind Blake) did.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Easy Rider
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 09:52 AM

Murray:

"Old Fashion" country blues guitar is definitely supposed to imitate the sound of the piano. Rev. Gary Davis was emphatic on this point. The Right Thumb is the piano player's Left hand, the Bass line; the Right fingers play the Right hand of the piano, and the Left hand is an extra hand the piano player doesn't have. This was dance music. It needs a driving rhythm.

EZR

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 03:53 PM

The "Delta Blues" may have begun as a description of music from that area, but I suspect that since many of those musicians travelled around, playing street corners for whatever money they might make that the Delta Blues tag was used for the sound rather than any geographical importance. Blind Blake and Blind Lemon Jefferson both were busking on streets in the '20's.

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: The Resonator
Date: 09 Sep 99 - 09:57 PM

Wow, I got to get in on this! For me, the Delta Blues is that really hard-hitting style that goes back to Charley Patton and Son House. Of course, they were simply the first ones to get the music on record. I read a biography of Patton in which it is reported that Patton was playing songs that dated back to the early years of the century, stuff he'd heard since being a kid. "Delta Blues" is probably what W.C. Handy heard that day in Mississippi, then took north, dressed up and made famous.

Who can say where the "Delta Blues" comes from.I'd put my money on field hollers and moans. I think "Delta" refers to Mississippi. It doesn't have the alternating bass of the Piedmont style, or the wonderful sophistication of Blind Blake's rags. Some of it sounds pre-12 bar. There's also a lot of open tuning stuff, a la Son House and his boy, Robert Johnson. About R.J. I'll say he comes in as the great synthesizer. He captures the music of his time and points it toward the future.

We'll never know the true father, or mother of the Delta Blues. But it is a distinctive style that through its players has greatly influenced popular music.

Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: woody
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 10:52 AM

For a definition and alist of key artists in the genre, check out www.allmusic.com. Click on Blues and then Delta Blues.

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 10 Sep 99 - 07:09 PM

Patton claimed to have learned the Blues from a fellow who, If I remember correctly , he called "Blake" that came to the Parchman farm from Texas--if you listen to his stuff, you will notice that he didn't only play blues, but a lot of old time stuff as well--

Blues was, apparently, a new craze that swept through the Delta during the teens and twenties, and the Lomaxes ignored it for many years, in favor of the old time stuff that was disappearing at the time, not thinking that there would be a time when people would want to know where it came from--You don't know what you've got til it's gone, I guess--

It seems odd to me that we know about the whole lives of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven, and yet the birht of the blues, from this very century, is so remote and obscure--

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From:
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 07:57 AM

And don't forget, Lonesome, they were also listening to records.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Delta Blues, what are they?
From: The Resonator
Date: 11 Sep 99 - 12:03 PM

It is sad that we don't know more about the origin of the blues, but "ain't that America?" At the beginning of this century, you couldn't find a scholar interested in folk music, particularly the folk music of black people. All ears pointed to Europe. Ragtime, the popular American music at the turn of the century, was reviled by the so-called elite. They talked about it as if it was a plague, an infection creeping out from black America.

By the time the blues revival comes along, the originators are long dead. They didn't leave behind letters. They probably couldn't read or write. Rats! So, all we're left with is their legacy, the dim mememories of some who knew them, and their music.

Peace.